EQ Worldbuilder Team (long)

[Gino]

Well maybe it would be the best if Pyro could explain this himself. *if he wishes to do so*

I fail to see why Verant should have more problems with the people who build up a database, than with the coders who try to get a server working, the best way possible.

And yes i would like to see some of the Dev Team involved in this, because the team that will build the world, will be heavily dependant on them. So some sort of commuication will be needed.
(maybe not actively involved, but more in a weekly meeting, to share informations and recieve feedback or requests)

Im taking this very serious, and i know it can be done but only if all that are involved are willing to do the best they can, and only if we forget about politics and stay on one side.

However i am to tired atm to write more im sorry.
Will post more tomorrow.

Good Night
Gino

PS : Thanks for the Feedback so far.

[Pyrotek]

I was just posting my thoughts on the subject. We had discussed this in the dev irc room the other day and agreed to release blank spawn tables with the source. Nothing is set in stone, we'll see what the future brings.

[Zeitgeist]

see the problem is when the db is released WITH the emu then emu team can be accosted by Verant for using their Intellectual property. Zones are fine because the zones aren't downloaded with the emu, they are part of the eq cd that you (presumably) bought. To avoid legal hassle the devs are staying away from content as much as possible. Hopefully drawde will reconsider his non-release of spawn db pending Login Server release.

cheers,

Z-.

Originally Posted by TheClaus

Well I doubt Verant would have spasmisms about a db being made. After all it is just a database for npcs, loot, quests, an spawns. Every website I know that has this information has it in a db format of some sort. So I say lets get started.

[Zeitgeist]

of course this may raise questions about itemdb too... *shrug*

[TheClaus]

I should of been a bit more clearer about it. What I meant to say was that if the db is seperate from the emu then verant wouldn't have a cow(man that is old) about some folks making a DB of items, spawns, loot, etc... Who cares if it works for the emu too.

[Trumpcard]

Thats right, once you start to identically copy their items and NPCS, you get into the fuzzy area of Intellectual Property (it would not be hard to prove that the Vellium Crafted War Spear you have in your database was in fact created/designed by Verant/SOE)

Creating an item database is a great idea, and I think the team idea is excellent, but I think to keep the dev team free of any issues, it should be done seperately, without the consesus of the dev team. Sure it would be nice if a full Verant item/spawn database could be shipped with the emulator, but its very dangerous from a legal perspective.

The best bet would be for the *Life* team to request a link be put up on the eqemu page that linked to the database location outside of the emu project. There could even be a database repository for different databases, allowing you to load your world based on your fantasy flavor (wouldnt it be neat to see gameworlds based on DragonLance or Forgotten Realms)
Of course, once again you get into IP concerns, but alot of companys would probably be excited to see their stuff in an online game world (especially with TSR's new online philosophy)

[Minuss]

How can i help you ?
What programs i've to use and what files i've to modify ?
tell me what ive to do and i'll do it as fast as i can
I would like to create copy of original game but we can change some things like rare mobs spawns dragons spawn time etc...
i think we should make a post where all people can say what they like to change in the game...
after we should shake all of the infos to do something very good i think !

[Zeitgeist]

please note the post by WC of a similar nature under :

http://forums.eqemu.net/showthread.p...id=412#post412

[madborg]

Having entries in a database that allows another piece of software to manipulate those entries, without modifying the content, would not normally be seen as a form of IP violation.
Changing hps on a model is not modifying the model, because it doesn't not permanently alter the model.

I have also argued that the characters that a user creates are as much IP content as the original base models--maybe even more. I would even argue that to ban a person and not allow them access to their content is a form of piracy. I would love to see this go to court.

Now you may think that my argument is silly, but since SoL the EQ EULA has been modified to include a section that assigns rights back to EQ for any content that you create on their servers.
Did anyone wonder what that was about?

Here is the section:

11. As part of your Account, you can upload content to our servers in various forms, such as in the selections you make for the Game and in chat rooms and similar user-to-user areas...

and then goes on....

You hereby grant to us a worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, sublicenseable.. right to exercise all intellectual property rights, in any media now know or not currently known, associated with your Content.

Think about that for a while. What the heck could a user possible create that could justify such a comprehensive agreement?
And this is the reason why EULA is weak. When you have such sweeping statements and you have no recourse, then you have no meeting of the mind.

But also look at what it does for my "piracy" argument-- potentially throws it out the window.

Yes my piracy statement is a matter of public record and is searchable.

[Windcatcher]

I'm not sure how we got to this, but it's interesting. Could they be anticipating being sued by a player who wants to port his/her character over to a non-SOE server?

WC

[Windcatcher]

A couple of sinister ideas occurred to me just now, so here's my final thought for the night:

1. Let's say that someone has a character on the live EQ servers. That person quits EQ, and later on creates the same character on a public EQ server (non-SOE). Could VI use this to force the 3rd-party server operator to purge all characters that once existed on SOE servers?

2. Let's say that someone creates some kind of artistic content that predates the game (story, play, artwork, whatever) but doesn't pubish it or otherwise get it copyrighted (maybe it's unfinished, maybe the person needs more confidence, whatever). Then that person creates a character using a name from the original work on an SOE server. Later on, the person completes/publishes/copyrights the artistic work. Would SOE be able to steal ownership or profits from said work by asserting that the person ceded ownership of the name to them, and charge copyright infringement? I only bring it up because the clause you mention is SO draconian that any hellspawn that would come up with it in the first place just may try to actually invoke it.

WC

[Zeitgeist]

interesting and frightening WC =)

[Shawn319]

(example??)

Like if i made a character called Microsoft 30 years ago verant could take MS to court and take over microsoft? sounds scary lol.

[Zio]

I was wondering if anyone still has the old item db that had the primals and epics and the armor that was a bit updated. No one seems to have it anymore. If you do pelase upload it or post a place were to get, thanks!


- Zio Ka Neo -

[uzzon]

Well, I personally would like to see a DB as close as possible to Verant Servers too.
Thats the base. You can change whatever you want later on.
It seems better to have a finished solid DB where we know stuff is balanced quite well and works. Verant has put a lot of time into thinking out the balance issues with every single item and spawn.

After we have that DB we can create alternate DBs. Its not that we would be stuck with this version forever.
We can change whatever we like.

But it'll be less chaotic if you make your changes on a DB version that has proven to be well playable on the Verant servers.

If several people start to tweak here and there while building their zones and then the whole thing is put together, I am sure no one really gets what he was looking for.

Everyone wants to do different things on their servers. Its better to get a DB you are familiar with from the live servers. That is something everyone accepts because he has lived there for a few years eventually on the VI servers. Its like "home" somehow lol

And he exactly knows what he wants to change. But if its a super tweaked DB, he'll get surprises on every corner.

I have one of Drawdes DBs installed too and I admire him for the great work he did, but I for example would'nt want a lvl 14 Dark Elf in West Freeport (Hollish Tnoops) to drop a full set of Crafted on my server. (Actually more than one set cause the one I killed had 3 BPs and 2x boots)

See what I mean? You want to change things yourself. Not everyone likes the same tweaks.

Since this is a project we all want to participate in it would be best to create this good old VI DB that everyone knows well and from there people can start tweaking on their own servers.

ok, enough... just my opinion but I think I am right with a few things here.


btw, it would be great if there would be a short manual for EQadmin. Until now I couldnt figure out how I can add an item to the DB for example. I hit "Add record" and get a new record but what do I do then? I am sure all of the item data is in the db blob, but how can I access this blob??

Explaining the DB basics would help a few people that want to help with world creation I think.
I also noticed that the EQemu Admin tool is a bit slow. I use mysqlfront for data editing usually and in that frontend the data is displayed a lot quicker.
No offense Windcatcher, the tool is great work and all the interface options are a must have, so I could'nt do anything without EQemu Admin anyway. Just a little slow on my 2nd machine.


Uzzon