Please give me my country back you lying fucktards...

[ltlruss]

I just want to thank you militec1 for that post... I wasn't going to post either, but it has really been bothering me. I accept that everyone is entitled to his own opinion, being able to express it is what makes this country so great.

I don't want to drag this out into a really long post. This is a very sensitive topic for me and I could discuss it all day long. I just thought I would give my opinion on the subject.

Now, whether or not our country's reason for going to war (WMD's) was correct or not, after seeing what was happening to the people over there, I think that we had every right to go over there and do what we could to free them. Removing Saddam from power was the best thing that could happen to the Iraqi people.

I have a lot of respect for our President. I think that if Gore had been elected, our country would be much worse off. I respect that after Sept. 11, he waited until he had enought intel before launching an attack against anyone. I honestly thought that we would start blowing things up the next day .

Again, I believe that everyone is entitled to his own opinion, so please let me have mine.... I think that there has been way too much flaming lately, and don't believe that someone expressing his opinion warrants being flamed.

Well, I just wanted to get a few things off my chest. Sorry if my thoughts are a little jumbled. Like I said, this is a sensitive subject to me and I just kind of throw things down as I think of them....

[RexChaos]

Things I agree with:

Removing Saddam from power

Attempting to help the Iraqi people rebuild their country and put a democratic government in place


That's it.

Not to flame you ltruss, but really...how much worse off would our country have been if Gore was elected president? What do you envision?

As for Bush waiting on intel...yeah. He waited alright. And then took the war to the wrong country. Our troops should have been in Afghanistan looking for terrorists, but since there's no money to be made there, we didn't focus our efforts there.

It's all a matter of deception and the fleecing of the American people. You were fooled, I was fooled, and the current presidency did it.

If I'm so wrong, please...dispute my claims and give me some proof. Thanks.

[sheck]

Originally Posted by KhaN

Bush arrive, make his war to sastifate the "christian ultranationnalist" (dont know if its the good term to call them, made a basic french translation)

Yeah, that sounds like a good a term as any. Another would be "fat rich white dudes".

[ltlruss]

First off, I don't think you're wrong.... It's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I don't think I'm wrong, it's my opinion.

I feel that if Gore had been President, he wouldn't have taken any action. I feel that he would basically have invited terrorists to attack our country. This is all based on my own feelings. Obviously there's no telling how things would have worked out had he been President.

I agree that we should have kept more focus on getting the terrorists in Afganistan. But, just because the press wasn't covering it like they were covering Iraq doesn't mean that we weren't still there trying to root them out.

I think that WMD's were a legitimate reason for going to Iraq. They would pose a serious and immediate threat to us. Ok, I know that we haven't found any there.... I don't necessarily think that means that they're not there though. If Saddam had destroyed them, why didn't he offer proof? We gave him more than enough chances. If he wanted to, he could bury his whole program out in the desert and we would never find it unless someone took us to them. I don't know that I'll ever be convinced that they were or weren't there.... I still believe that we had other reasons for going there anyway....

I don't have any proof to offer as these are my own opinions based on what I've seen and the experience that I have with how some things work.

[Jezebell]

Originally Posted by militec1

Where do you think the world would be if the U.S. didn't exist when Hitler, or Lenin, or Stalin, or (insert your favorite dictator here) decided that certain people didn't have a right to exist?

I find this comment particularly amusing. Have you ever had a conversation with someone from a different country regarding this topic? For instance my wife is Russian. Their point of view on all of that completely differs from what we believe to have happened. They say they were doing fine with Hitler and didn't need our help. We are fed what the government wants us to know, not what actually is happening or took place, history is written by the victors. Just like all the other times the US took it upon themselves to police the rest of the world instead of fixing our own problems because we are so "righteous". We need to get our familys out of Iraq and let them deal with it on their own, if we are lucky they will all kill themselves through civil war and there won't be an Iraq anymore...problem solved. The US needs to stop sticking its nose into other countries business, I think the other countries of the world and the UN can look out for themselves, they don't need us butting in.

As for President Bush.....all I can say is....rofl...what a joke, this whole thing is because of his father and money, its a personal vendetta against Saddam and he is trying to clean up the mess he made by invading Iraq.

I am a military veteran, and I support our government...when they are fighting for something right...but our family's and friends are over there right now dying for nothing....the death tolls are increasing every month, the Iraqis are getting more and more violent, they don't want us there, so lets leave.

I could go on and on but I will leave it there....

[RexChaos]

http://www.luclin.org/

It should be right on the front page, but in case it's not...

http://www.luclin.org/files/moslad/f...ring_quote.jpg

[romoshi]

First of all to Rex Chaos, that link proposed a good point. It is true that every leader no matter what government uses that tactic to get the people to enter war. Just about every major war in 300 years had leaders using tactics like that.
Also on the previous post about us helping Russia when they didnt need it. I dont think it says even in our history books that we helped Russia. It was more like they helped us in a way since Hitler attacking them caused him to fight a two front war. It never said that either America or Britain sent troops over when Russia was invaded by Hitler.

[Jezebell]

My point was that Russia could have deafeated Hitler without the US interfering.

[Shadow-Wolf]

Heh all this talk about WWII and the Cold War after i got done taking history lessons about it , first of all all three contries needed help so each joined the an alliance, The three most import contries in the alliance were Russia,The United States, and Great Brit. The war was won blah blah then that led to the Cold War when The Big Three split germany into 4 sections(Yes four, since france was an allie in the war a chunk was givin to them) and the capitol of Germany was also split into 4, but there was a problem the capitol was in the USSR's section of Germany, later on this led to problems stalin started(like when he closed all main roads to berlin and american and brit transport can get food to civilians). Soon the arms race began both countries spent lots of money to create bigger and bigger bombs, but not a single fire was shot between russia,the united states, or russia all countries were affraid that if one sent a bomb then the other would and they would repeat until the world was completely destroyed. Eventualy durring the arms race(and the space race) the ussr ran out of funds to create weapons and the USSR collapsed. And about russians saying they didn't need us, is that why they joined the alliance? Most Americans I know would probley say we didn't need them, but I think we just needed eachother.

[Jezebell]

I'm sure they joined the Alliance for political reasons not because it was necessary. And don't forget that the history books you are reading were written by Americans.

[RexChaos]

Due to Hitler insisting on invading Russia during winter...I think the Russians would have done fine on their front by themselves.

It was just way too big an area for Germany to control really.

Reminds me of that line from the Princess Bride,

"Never get involved in a land war in Asia...but only slightly less well known is this - Never go up against a Sicilian, when death is on the line! Ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha ha ha.... (thud)"

That's a great movie

[JohnRev]

L-O-L :!: :!: :!: :!:

[militec1]

Yeah, that's what I would expect from someone from France. How many of our (U.S.) boys are buried over there? How many times did we bail your limp wristed country out? Except for the French underground in WWII, and the dedicated soldiers of the French military, it's always the same with you people and your leaders. Spineless.

You can laugh now because you were able to be born, and that, is in no small part due to the role that the U.S. has played in bailng out your sad excuse for a nation. But, now that the money is to be made somewhere else, you all seem to have found another "John" to attach your fortunes to in Iraq. Bummer that all of those French oil contracts won't be honored, eh?

I'm not offended by your comments, merely saddened by them and the ignorance they demonstrate.

[Stealth_raptor]

Militec...do you think it's right to steal?

[militec1]

Originally Posted by Stealth_raptor

Militec...do you think it's right to steal?

Of course not, but I'm sure that there is more to your question than just that, yes?