Patching Alternatives - Page 3

Ibix · #31 02-28-2006, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmeck

I can let Cis use my can...

Sorry, couldn't pass up on this opportunity to chuckle at unfortunate typos. The rest of the post, however was a very good analogy and one I will use when talking with some people on another forum who don't understand this very concept.

Shox · #32 02-28-2006, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattmeck

Sony lets you USE there software, read the fine print, you do NOT own it, you buy the right to USE it.

That's not really what I was going for.

But what if you just made it work for the official download? It pretty much never changes and so people don't need to do illegal things like download from warez sites.

Belfedia · #33 02-28-2006, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shox

That's not really what I was going for.

But what if you just made it work for the official download? It pretty much never changes and so people don't need to do illegal things like download from warez sites.

No difference, if you play with a legal client download or a Warez client download, You don't pay use of this program if you don't take a sony account and pay each month.

#34 02-28-2006, 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shox

That's not really what I was going for.

But what if you just made it work for the official download? It pretty much never changes and so people don't need to do illegal things like download from warez sites.

The official download changes almost daily.

Gameross · #35 03-01-2006, 07:11 PM

Making Emu compatible with any off the shelf package isn't going to work.

The issue is that Sonys packages can contain a client that was never available from the Sony patcher, so people would have to keep buying these packages to keep playing Emu. Every release/update I've installed has always resulted in a client download even though I just installed it.

Sony might as well not bother to put the client on the CD/DVD. Maybe they don't. Never bothered to look.

Also, as people have pointed out, there is availability issues with these complete package distributions.

This project is basicly dying a slow death as long as you don't keep Emu compatible to live. This came very evident to me when I hadn't played Emu for a over a year and found less than half the servers there were when I last played. This could easily be attributed to the fact that people can't get the client to even try playing.

Ghost Fire · #36 03-02-2006, 12:13 AM

OK New Rule. Read other peoples post on the subject your going to rip on first before your going to post CRAP! "basicly dying a slow death"

Also as side note to Buttholes, the 2 Guys working on the Emulator are doing this for fun. So if they want to work on making a better Emulator instead of doing the live thing. They can. If they want to work on the Wiki. They can.
Point is They do what THEY want not what YOU want!!!

If you don't like something. Do it yourself. Cisyouc fav. color

Gameross · #37 03-02-2006, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Fire

OK New Rule. Read other peoples post on the subject your going to rip on first before your going to post CRAP! "basicly dying a slow death"

Also as side note to Buttholes, the 2 Guys working on the Emulator are doing this for fun. So if they want to work on making a better Emulator instead of doing the live thing. They can. If they want to work on the Wiki. They can.
Point is They do what THEY want not what YOU want!!!

If you don't like something. Do it yourself. Cisyouc fav. color

Yes, I only skimmed over all the previous posts. So, if my points were brought up already, I'm still well within my right to state my reasoning for my vote, weather or not others have stated the same thing.

As for dying a slow death, I'm just stating the obvious result of people not being able to get a working client for Emu. Ya can't play a game without an interface.

I appreciate that these guys are willing to put their time into this project. Your attitude on the other hand is just pointless and assinine. You obviously voted for Bush. :P

**Doodman** · #38 03-02-2006, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gameross

I've never quite understood why the Emu is so far behind live. Macroquest, which is quickly updated, would seem to have all the client structs defined you would need to make Emu compatible to live.

Well, obviously, you've never worked with the source of EQEmu/ShowEQ vs MQ. The client side structs and the line structs are vastly different. Plus, even if they were, the opcodes used in the packets to move the data back and forth between the client and server need to be discovered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gameross

Of course, I'm no longer doing any programming and haven't dug into the code for this, but it seems like the hard work is being done by another project which distributes it source.

Perhaps you should dig a little more before spout off. Or, even better, if you feel it would be so easy, you are more than welcome to make EQEMu be live compatible and contribute it back.

Gameross · #39 03-02-2006, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doodman

Well, obviously, you've never worked with the source of EQEmu/ShowEQ vs MQ. The client side structs and the line structs are vastly different. Plus, even if they were, the opcodes used in the packets to move the data back and forth between the client and server need to be discovered.

Perhaps you should dig a little more before spout off. Or, even better, if you feel it would be so easy, you are more than welcome to make EQEMu be live compatible and contribute it back.

Actually, I did rethink how the 2 systems are different and yes, I can see how MQ wouldn't help that much with your interfacing to the currently client. Just deleted that part of my post actually, but obviously not before you had read it.

But it still doesn't change the other points I brought up.

Is ShowEQ still around. At least it's a actual packet sniffer and certainly closer to what you need to make modding Emu to live.

**Doodman** · #40 03-02-2006, 04:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gameross

Is ShowEQ still around. At least it's a actual packet sniffer and certainly closer to what you need to make modding Emu to live.

Well, we've always had our own packet sniffer. I was actually actively involved in helping purple (from showeq) understand the network protocol and gave him my sniffer as a reference to help fix ShowEQ for the new network code.

Still, even tho ShowEQ needs the some of the same information that we need for it to work, it's a very small subset of what we actually need to make eqemu work. They can leave a lot of unknonw stuff as unknown since showeq doesn't need to show it. We cannot.

We actually, before we decided to work on stability instead of chasing a moving target, work pretty closely with the ShowEQ folks with exchanging information on opcodes and structures. The MQ devs feel that they are superior to everyone else and, every time I've asked, do not feel it's worth their time to play nice with other related projects.

Keep in mind, there are 300+ opcodes that we have discovered the value for in 0.6.2+ and over 200 structures, not to mention changes to items. That's 300+ opcodes we need to refind almost every patch and at least a dozen or so structures that SoE scrambles for no obvious reason. Chasing live is no trivial task. You might be able to log in with a live client with a small amount of work, but 75% or more of the currently working features would not work.

**Doodman** · #41 03-02-2006, 04:14 AM

Besides, in an indirect way we are working on live compat related issues.

FNW has some things in an experimental version (dev only) that should assist us in work on newer patches.

And, I've been working on x86 virtual machine to be able to process and fingerprint the dispatching routine in the client to try to be able to determine opcodes in newer executables by comparing the function signatures for the handlers of opcodes.

When these two are complete, it should help in being able to follow newer patches more closely but it's not a 100% match (right now I can find about ~60 opcodes automatically). But that does nothing for structures.

Things take time. We're trying to balance stability and new features with being able to chase other patches, but stability is currenly our preference.

If you are too impatient to wait or think you can do better, you are more than welcome to do so. This project is, after all, open source. You have the same tools and code that I do.

microbrain · #42 03-05-2006, 04:25 AM

I dont know about anyone else, but I am finding it incredibly difficult (and increasingly frustrating) to get hold of an eq client that works with eqemu.

All I want to do is run my own small LAN server for a few friends to play occasionally, but this is an impossibility as I cannot find a client that works with the eqemu server.

(I unfortunately stopped playing live in december, so my client was patched beyond the november freeze. I have a copy which according to EQVercheck should work with 0.6.0, but never gets past the login screen!)

If there was a version out there that would work with an unpatched installation of titanium, I would go out and buy it in an instant

. I am sure I would not be the only one.

You guys have done some excellent work here. Chasing Live is a great idea, but I for one just want to have a working emu that I can play locally.

just my 2cp worth.

Denethor72 · #43 03-05-2006, 04:59 AM

I agree with Micro; if there was a version that was compatible with a clean install, I would buy it as well, because I'm getting tired of not being able to find anyone that has a version that will work. All of my friends that still play live have the newest patch, so that won't work. And you can't ask anyone through these forums without violating the agreement, so that's out. I don't care about it being compatible with live as much as just having something that will work with a fresh out of the box install. I just want to setup my own private lan to play it on, because I quit playing live to get away from the idiot players and kill-stealers that seemed to be infesting the live servers more and more often. Just my 2cp worth, so it's probably worth less than that... heh.

ndnet · #44 03-08-2006, 03:24 AM

I support the option of moving towards compatibility on a clean-install primarily because I lost my prior compatible folder long ago in a disk corruption, my last backup DVD is from June'05, and I happen to own the Titanium set I purchased for a second live account ^.~

a_Guest03 · #45 03-12-2006, 11:45 AM

You'll never reach 100% chasing live. It's like eqemu is a fat kid chasing down an icecream truck with a sadistic driver. Sony's not *trying* to be a sadistic driver, but as long as the vehicle moves, you can't outrun it ad infinitum. Make a stable system based on a snapshot, like Titanium, and I'll donate at least $50.

It's worth it to me to have something that works. I donated in the past and it still doesn't work. FNW, you must focus on a snapshot. Chasing live is just too much.

Here's another thing to consider. When eqemu started, each patch was just so much! Kunark made the world 100% bigger! Velius another 50% bigger! How many expansions are there now?? I quit following eq and eqemu for a while. These are all getting to be incrementally LESS value for the same work. Think of it as the storage issue we focus now. Example, iPods. As iPods increase in size, the value of the storage goes down, and soon, I don't want to pay $500 for 7TB. I'll pay $50 for 200GB. There's only so much media I can enjoy as one person. Soon my time is better spent elsewhere, not watching DVDs on my iPod at work. Do we need the ENTIRE collection, even as each incremental growth is WORTHLESS in the grand scheme of things??? Can't we be satisfied?

You have less developers if I'm not wrong, and you *must* revitalize this project by reaching completion, or it'll fall apart. $20 is piss in the bucket for a reliable world with SO MUCH DATA. Think of how many hours alone or with friends that you can milk from 4 expansions. We need to get a client that is done, get testing done, and finish this project. I've been a member of this project for almost 4 years, and I've been unable to play it probably 3 years worth because of patches, broken features, lost interest, etc. I've seen dev after dev after dev leave, throw their arms up, and quit.

FNW, finish this project off, PLEASE. PM me if you need some money to get sorted out. I just graduated college, got a monster job, and am tired of seeing this project flounder as you all spit, fight, and rip at success. It's time to grab success, build a sturdy system, and send eqemu to pasture, where NEW features, NEW expansions, NEW becomes the mantra. Let's not be fixing. Let's be building.