Server Reviews Discussion

[trevius]

NOTE: This thread is all posts that were removed from the following thread:
http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=30456

I moved them here as a separate discussion, since they were completely off-topic with that thread.


I deleted a post made by Reiker here. Flaming servers and generally starting drama on these forums is not allowed. Leave those type of discussions on the specific server's forums or whatever. Please don't even bother replying in this thread again, Reiker. Any points that you may have made could have been made as constructive criticism instead of just putting down the work of the server dev(s).

[SupaFreak76]

There needs to be a forum thread for those that want to express themselves against a server issue, so a new player might be forewarned, without making it a flame, Trev. I understand where you are coming from by removing a post here, but I've seen a few posts removed lately that might give a player thought to read in depth before blindly leaping into a manical OP's server ( no names here, but I'm sure anyone who reads this know's several.)

The basic Idea is, players need a warning what they are getting into before their Eqemu experience is ruined by perhaps their first server here. If the information is straight out flame, delete but, if there is a serious problem with a server population with a server OP/GMs, new players have the right to read the info before spending time there, and moving on.

My 2 cents for w/e they are worth.

[jkennedy]

seeing my server population hits 40 everynight and i had one guy who was unhappy just because i don't you grammar that well he started a big thing about it but i aggree there should be somewhere to post like a server review or somthing but there prolly wont be and if there is its going to be on the servers forums

[SupaFreak76]

Well, my post probably could have been placed in a better location Jkennedy, my apologies. It was simply that i've seen this done a lot lately, and i think there's a need for an impartial server forum, where players can voice their opinions, and one where OPs can advertise their servers and their news.

Nice job on your population.

[Reiker]

Originally Posted by trevius

I deleted a post made by Reiker here. Flaming servers and generally starting drama on these forums is not allowed. Leave those type of discussions on the specific server's forums or whatever. Please don't even bother replying in this thread again, Reiker. Any points that you may have made could have been made as constructive criticism instead of just putting down the work of the server dev(s).

What are you talking about? I didn't flame anyone, I brought up all the points of the server I felt could be improved. My post couldn't have gotten anymore constructive. Did you even read the thing?

This forum is "Server Discussion." I'm discussing a server. If I only wanted to flame I wouldn't have spent time writing 5 large paragraphs about each aspect of the server that I found a bit lacking. I spent time painting a picture about this server's beta so people would have an idea what it's like. Absolutely crazy that you think that was worth deleting. If that's the MO, post a sticky saying that only raving positive server reviews may be posted.

And now maybe you realize my post belonged in this thread a bit more than a discussion about this crap.

[ChaosSlayerZ]

I kind of agree with Riker that players would like to have an opportunity to discuss the servers among themselves, including a healthy criticism, without being policed by those server gms on that server forums..

Sorry for off-topic.

[Vexira]

Not to stir up trouble or anything but I also agree. I'd want real criticism for my server if a player was dissatisfied with what I've done. Then again, I didn't read the original post so I can't say that I agree with Reiker completely. I am a fan of real reviews though.

[SupaFreak76]

And now maybe you realize my post belonged in this thread a bit more than a discussion about this crap.


The discussion was for your benefit even if you don't seem to realize it. I was simple saying, that we need to have two seperate forums for this, not simply rely on server forums. If i were a new player, checking out these forums, I would be browsing General Server forums, hoping to find some info placed there by Server Owners.

Then, if there was such a thing, and i think there should be, I would look for the forums that players post their opinions on here. That keeps things seperated and tidy, yet satisfies the basic need.

Anyway, I'm sure this has become a thread on all it's own by now.

[trevius]

Well, I considered not deleting it, but the post was reported as flaming. None of the other mods had done anything about it yet, so I reviewed it and decided that it probably should be removed.

Phrases like this:

The first thing you'll notice upon logging into Asylum of Dragons is the elementary level of grammar employed throughout.

Could be reworded without antagonizing the dev(s) of the server.

And, then there was this:

I made a post under the Suggestions forum on the AoD website with all of these thoughts, stating that I don't find this fun and that I will no longer be playing unless this stuff gets tuned down accordingly. I was met with this immature response:

Pretty much any (beta!) custom server has a good chance to work out the kinks and grow into an enjoyable experience... I'm not counting on Asylum of Dragons to do this while Oick is at the helm, however.

That last comment is basically calling the server owner/admin a complete failure. Becoming a new server admin can be a ton of work, and it normally takes time and patience to get to a point where the work done on the server is respectable. Saying that a server has no chance to work out it's kinks and specifically calling out their team members is just asking for drama, IMO.

Even with just the stuff that was in that post, I still wasn't planning on deleting the post. It wasn't until I read the actual thread he was quoting Oick from:

http://asylumofdragons.webs.com/apps...22-progression

Where it looks like nothing but complaints from his side and then saying he was quitting and then continued to complain. It also looks like Oick was trying to be actively helpful and friendly until the attitude of the posts started to escalate. At the time of posting this, that thread still exists, so it isn't like his voice was being moderated on the server's own forums.

From the last post in that thread, it seem pretty clear that Reiker came here more to get out his aggression towards Oick than to give a helpful review for future players. After making a post like that on their forums, then coming here and replying to this server advertisement thread, is just asking for trouble.

I admit that deleting the post was a bit of a border-line decision. It can always be undeleted if needed, but I personally think it was warranted. If left undeleted, I am pretty sure it would have lead to drama and we really don't need that here.

To correct the issue of getting off-topic, I am moving these posts into their own new thread.
EDIT: New Thread already created and posts on this subject all moved.

[Reiker]

Thanks for moving everything here. I would have just ignored the post deletion if you hadn't replaced it with a post dragging my name through the mud calling me a flamer.

Even in that post I commended Oick's patience for helping me fix the flagging thing. What I didn't like was being called a jackass for suggesting mob atk / hp be retuned. I thought this was completely unprofessional and ridiculous... I guess it's just because I can't stand people who can't take positive criticism. If I didn't want his server to succeed I would have just kept quiet. Instead I gave him reasons WHY I didn't like it, but he took it personally for some reason. I still continued to provide feedback about some poor itemization, etc.

I feel it's just as important to bring attention to poor attitudes of server admins as well as the actual content, to aid in peoples' decisions as to whether to spend the time on a particular server.

[jkennedy]

There's a difference between positive feedback and just complaining about every little thing then once i fix everything you complain about you keep going with something new the mob hp/atk if you don't like how my server is harder than others and more challenging then find a new server there's ton's of them not everyone is going to like every server but everyone on mine likes the harder mobs and the more live like with a little custom items feel

[Secrets]

Originally Posted by jkennedy

There's a difference between positive feedback and just complaining about every little thing then once i fix everything you complain about you keep going with something new the mob hp/atk if you don't like how my server is harder than others and more challenging then find a new server there's ton's of them not everyone is going to like every server but everyone on mine likes the harder mobs and the more live like with a little custom items feel

In his defense, I really do think that he's just pointing out the fact that it takes too long to kill NPCs, not that it is too difficult. Trust me, i've been there, I will admit it's not an easy task to build a server. I did warn you that you would run into hit or miss mitigation (full or nothing) when you ran your server, and players quickly found out that your server does just that.

IMO, it would be a good idea to look at how PEQ does their NPC's stats and balance around that if you were to run a serious server. Having the best stats in the world doesn't matter if they are capped all the time, and HP/AC being the only thing that can help you advance. This is the case with a lot of servers; they don't understand the underlying code and thus become HP/AC servers. Though, there's a lot of client limitations related to displaying statistics that prevent anyone from doing anything other than what PEQ is doing with the formulas.

One of the main reasons I made Mythic is because some server ops do not know the underlying code and instead of guessing NPC/Item stats, I instead make EverQuest simpler so that serverops could understand it. Because it is more simpler to understand what statistics do what for each class, it's eaiser to balance npcs and items around that.

I still think you need to work on a few things. It's not an easy task, because I haven't perfected anything i've done either, but a start would be making encounters challenging on your server instead of tedius, from what it sounds like based on your players' feedback is that it is too tedius to get gear.

[Vexira]

After reading the post in the original forum where this started, I don't agree with Reikers tactics and it did seem like frustration rather than a non-biased review.

I would like to see a 'server rating/player review' page though. That'd be cool.

[Reiker]

Originally Posted by jkennedy

There's a difference between positive feedback and just complaining about every little thing then once i fix everything you complain about you keep going with something new the mob hp/atk if you don't like how my server is harder than others and more challenging then find a new server there's ton's of them not everyone is going to like every server but everyone on mine likes the harder mobs and the more live like with a little custom items feel

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run_on_sentence

What did you fix?

I love challenges, I wish I had gotten to see your raid content if it is scripted like I hear (have my doubts though). However, CHing through over 40 minutes praying you don't roll low on avoidance isn't exactly challenging.

If you see someone saying that your server is suffering from poor grammar, poor itemization, and poor content as complaining, you are going to fail. This isn't flaming, this is advice.

And I agree with what Secrets is saying... the way AC/mitigation is handled on emu is sort of detrimental to designing good content. You either have more AC than the mob has ATK and you're amazing, or you have less and you get destroyed.

To Oick and other server devs: don't take criticism so personally. We want your servers to succeed.