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  #1  
Old 09-01-2015, 04:09 PM
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provocating
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Default Melee in the Velious Era

There has been a lot of discussion on how accurate the damage, avoidance and mitigation systems are in EqEmu. Torven has done a great job doing parsing and accumulating mass amounts of data, and then reporting that data back here in a way we can all digest it. I have also reached out to him on this subject but I think this is also best to be left to the masses, crowd sourced response if you will. On Legacy of FrostStone we have had many behind the scenes discussion on how melee should be in the game. I think it is not noticeable on most servers because they have elevated experience rates or openly give you a means to obtain max level quickly, like boxing, bots.

I have found a few things that definitely impacted the low level melee and have mitigated those issues but past level 15 melee gets hammered pretty bad. Luckily there are quite a few server rules that will let you tweak your server to your liking, I have also added a few to my own server so I can change mitigation on the fly.

So my scattered Everquest experience was just a few weeks of classic, then maybe 6 months of Kunark. I had a long break as my interest changed and did not get involved again until Planes of Power. I also only played a Magician for a main, I dabbled in Druid and Necromancer. So Melee is a foreign subject to me, but I am learning more as time passes. Since I have limited knowledge on melee I have no idea what their solo capability was during the era. My understanding on Melee back then was a Warrior was never a solo class, you just could not do consistent damage to be solo viable. So for the old salts out there that have good memories of Classic style play, what could a melee do? Back then you were probably wearing a set of Banded at level 30 carrying what ever weapon you could find. What could you take down at level 30 consistently? Was it a green, light blue or blue?
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Old 09-01-2015, 04:25 PM
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provocating
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I want to add that my above post is just to get a general feel on how far the current system is off and where it is off. I am just trying to find which system is off the most, mitigation, damage, avoidance, etc.
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Old 09-01-2015, 08:23 PM
rhyotte
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Without a lot of potions of healing, and damage shield, warriors were extremely hard to even think about soloing past about level 10 or so. Twinks do not count of course, that is very different. In fact, you could almost say warriors invented and refined the concept of TWINK

Honestly, *That* exact piece of nostalgia kinda sucked... On the other hand, there was a certain mystique attached to a player who went all the way to the top of the end game as a warrior because of the class difficulty.
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Old 09-02-2015, 04:20 PM
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Wars could do a single green and low blue (there were no light blues) with a lot of downtime. It was very inefficient without good gear, buffs, and preferably, a buff bot.

Rogues were similar but could exploit position timing to drop a backstab here and there.

Monks were a little better thanks to high h2h damage, mend, extra mitigation through block, and AC bonus for basically being broke as fuk and of course could FD if things went south (which of course has the bonus of being able to split multi-pulls for easier quality of life).

In my opinion the current state of the emulator (an out of the box EQemu install) puts content (all aspects considered) in the realm of 6-8x easier than it was in that time frame.
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Old 09-02-2015, 05:58 PM
demonstar55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrsschb View Post
In my opinion the current state of the emulator (and out of the box EQemu install) puts content (all aspects considered) in the realm of 6-8x easier than it was in that time frame.
Almost all of that is due to attack speed being too slow.
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Old 09-03-2015, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonstar55 View Post
Almost all of that is due to attack speed being too slow.
All classes are considerably more powerful as well, not just a fault of the NPC's speed.
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Old 09-03-2015, 01:04 PM
demonstar55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrsschb View Post
All classes are considerably more powerful as well, not just a fault of the NPC's speed.
That's because PC damage calc is about 100% wrong. But even just making raid stuff attack faster (raid content should be between 10 and 20 attack delay usually) does greatly increase the difficulty of the content.
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Old 09-03-2015, 05:19 PM
Khokon
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There must be old log files that can be parsed. Even without knowing the class and gear of the chars in the file, it would still give an image.

Does anyone have any log files from 1999-2002 or knows where to get them?

BR,
Khokon
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  #10  
Old 09-03-2015, 06:05 PM
Khokon
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Can you point me a bit more towards it? I see you receiving logfiles per PM and Akkadius providing an upload link. But how do I get them?
I'm not intested in the auctions from ragefire even though the numbers there are impressive

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Khokon
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Old 09-03-2015, 06:12 PM
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Sadly enough, I really did not get anything of value. Torven did have some logs from EqMac before they shut down.
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Old 09-04-2015, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonstar55 View Post
That's because PC damage calc is about 100% wrong. But even just making raid stuff attack faster (raid content should be between 10 and 20 attack delay usually) does greatly increase the difficulty of the content.
Not arguing that. No matter how you choose to bring the difficulty back there's not a single change solution.
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Old 09-05-2015, 05:06 PM
Grumble
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Quote:
Originally Posted by provocating View Post
Since I have limited knowledge on melee I have no idea what their solo capability was during the era. My understanding on Melee back then was a Warrior was never a solo class, you just could not do consistent damage to be solo viable. So for the old salts out there that have good memories of Classic style play, what could a melee do? Back then you were probably wearing a set of Banded at level 30 carrying what ever weapon you could find. What could you take down at level 30 consistently? Was it a green, light blue or blue?
Consistent damage wasn't the issue. HP recovery after combat was the issue. At L30, HP regen was only 30hp per minute while sitting and 10 while standing.

I played a monk (EZ mode of EQ melee). Monks could bind wound up to 50% hp then hit mend. Every 6 minutes, you could be back up to 80%+ and be ready to pull again.

One blue con mob every 6 minutes. Light blue's didn't exist. Green con mobs gave no experience (before grey cons were added).

This was using bare fists (10/34 at L30). Pre-Fungi or other regen items. Pre-weapon itemization for monks.

Warriors and rogues had a tougher time because they didn't have mend. A monk can start at 80% hp and end at 10% hp and be able to repeat this process every 6 minutes. A warrior/rogue going down to 10% hp will only go back up to ~55% hp in the same amount of time. Warrior/Rogues have to either wait longer to get up to 80% hp or fight lower/weaker mobs.
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  #14  
Old 09-05-2015, 05:26 PM
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provocating
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We have been working hard on Legacy of FrostStone to get melee better, more accurate to the era. So far it is looking way better.
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  #15  
Old 09-05-2015, 06:11 PM
demonstar55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumble View Post
Light blue's didn't exist.
Light blue existed, just they were still blue. Light blue was added because there were lesser blue cons :P
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