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  #16  
Old 09-28-2016, 11:49 AM
gravystain
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By 'rule set' I'm simply referring to a set of rules that all servers should layout at launch. I'm a huge proponent of laying out server rules that help people govern themselves. You or your group kill a mob, you have 3 mins where the loot is locked to your group by default. If the rule is FFA after that time period obviously that person was trying to alt log over or sell the loot to an outside source. 3 mins should be plenty of time for a solo kill to loot an item or a group to roll off and loot it. There shouldn't be any GM petitions or squabbling arguments over such scenarios if the rules are laid out properly.

The only thing i cant find a solution too is what to do when a group member dies and cant loot until rezed or a run back. The surviving group members obviously cant loot and give you the item. I dunno maybe this would have to be chalked up to just being a hardcoreish server.
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  #17  
Old 09-28-2016, 01:21 PM
NostalgiaEQ
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Thanks dan I will check and make sure I was viewing all in rule_values. I have begun to change all +stat items to no drop! I chopped my item database down to 30k entries from 90k by getting rid of every item added to the db after 2004. Hopefully I'm not missing any old school items that way.

gravy you are really good at thinking these sorts of things through, I'm really inpressed. I'm not a big fan of laying out rules personally. I think that unless you can enforce it consistently there shouldn't be a rule. In general whatever a player CAN do they should have a right to do that. Make things that I don't want people to do very difficult but not "against the rules". For example I set it so my server only allows a person to log one instance of the game per ip address. If they can find a way around that by using mobile internet so they can get 2 boxes up, that is their perogative. There really wouldn't be a way for me to enforce consistently "hey it looks like you are boxing but I can't be sure" you know what I mean? Also I HATE when devs punish people for their own mistakes by making "bug exploitation" against the rules! That is shittyest thing I can imagine to be banned for doing something that was the devs fault for allowing in the code, and that has happened to me before. I am very libertarian
when it comes to these sorts of things lol.


But ya it looks like most drops go ffa after 2.5 mins anyway. But I think that should be shortened to 30 seconds to prevent like you said people trying to sell drops on the ground. Yeh you would miss out if you died but things aren't going to be perfect you have to choose the lesser of two evils when making a game. I think that downside is outweighed by the upside. Mabye I could make it to 1 min before it goes ffa so someone could be rezzed a little more comfortably and still beat the ffa timer. Mabye if someone is afraid of dying they will get a cleric to stand around ready to rez just in case so they don't miss the loot window.

But ya of course I will tell everyone the settings my server has so people are well aware beforehand which is what I'm thinking you are meaning now by saying you are a big proponent of laying out the rules. My server will be open source too so people can even look in the database and see exactly what all the settings are.
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  #18  
Old 09-28-2016, 02:30 PM
gravystain
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We seem to have the same vision. I've always thought that rule sets should be an overview of things you WONT get in trouble for as opposed to "Here are my rules, please follow them". I think its good that people know that they CAN camp loot for your alts, here are the risks, don't bother reporting anyone that snipes your loot when camp over and its gone. They CAN sell loot rights, don't bother reporting the person who looted it faster than your customer. I think sometimes people forget what Verants reason for the LORE item was. When you think about it, A LOT of the best items in the game are LORE and its not for the reasoning of not wanting people to wear multiple of the same item. LORE is applied to TONS of items that you cant wear multiple of anyways like BP's, legs, cloaks, helms etc. Verant did this so people wouldn't camp items over and over that they didn't need because they obviously already had one. Too me this was just a failed idea that didn't work for them. You can also see that they wanted the game to be played this way eventually by their end game items which are mostly all NO DROP. That's just my thoughts on the whole concept. But I also think its really important to make a variety of items that are not no drop to encourage a healthy economy. With crafted items, soft wicker, blacked alloy chain sets etc.
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  #19  
Old 09-28-2016, 03:40 PM
NostalgiaEQ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gravystain View Post
We seem to have the same vision. I've always thought that rule sets should be an overview of things you WONT get in trouble for as opposed to "Here are my rules, please follow them". I think its good that people know that they CAN camp loot for your alts, here are the risks, don't bother reporting anyone that snipes your loot when camp over and its gone. They CAN sell loot rights, don't bother reporting the person who looted it faster than your customer. I think sometimes people forget what Verants reason for the LORE item was. When you think about it, A LOT of the best items in the game are LORE and its not for the reasoning of not wanting people to wear multiple of the same item. LORE is applied to TONS of items that you cant wear multiple of anyways like BP's, legs, cloaks, helms etc. Verant did this so people wouldn't camp items over and over that they didn't need because they obviously already had one. Too me this was just a failed idea that didn't work for them. You can also see that they wanted the game to be played this way eventually by their end game items which are mostly all NO DROP. That's just my thoughts on the whole concept. But I also think its really important to make a variety of items that are not no drop to encourage a healthy economy. With crafted items, soft wicker, blacked alloy chain sets etc.
Hmm good point, after I change all +stats items to no-drop I will go back to make all player crafted items tradable. So like crafted +stats items will not be no drop. Let me know what else you think should be tradable.
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  #20  
Old 09-28-2016, 04:09 PM
gravystain
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I actually think a great number of items should be tradebable and I'll give you my reasons. Everquest has a lot of items that I would consider 'random' drops. For example, dervish cutthroat rings. Theres plenty of derv camps and any one of them can drop the rings. Why not add that item to the economy. Barbed Legs and armplates in befallen, they are a less than 1 % drop chance off of random shadow knights. If a person really wanted these items it wouldn't really be realistic to farm them. Things like tentacle whips, random chance from most any terror. Minotaur axes and horns. Theres a ton of stuff that could be put into the economy, most if not all is considered junk. I'd keep anything, no matter how terrible the item is, NODROP if it drops from a specific rare mob and is one of his 2-3 item drops. I could go zone by zone and make a proposed list and send you it if you agree.

As far as people perhaps camping some of these better items to sell....well maybe. I think plat would mostly end up being used in tradeskills and purchasing regents and gems on this server. What incentive does a person have to farm loads of plat so he can buy.....what with it? I envision most of the economy will be trade based on these type of items. Some may want plat.
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  #21  
Old 09-28-2016, 04:43 PM
NostalgiaEQ
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Wow you weren't bluffing with this idea, you really had this well thought out. So ya I can search an item name in the database but it takes a while. If you could organize a list by the highest stat it adds that would be helpful. So like for example a wisdom list +5 wis items that should be tradable, +4, +3 etc. If it adds to multiple stats then just group it by whatever its highest is. So if an item adds +4 wis and +3 int, group it with the +4 wis items. I can't search by zone so for me what I would need is at minimum the name of the item and if it could be grouped by its highest stat bonus that would be extra helpful.

I trust your judgement but when in doubt I think we should lean towards no drop. Because with so little tradable then there will be extra pressure on every item that we do let be tradable. So even if that item wasn't camped before like derv rings they may be camped now because there are so few things that can be traded. Probably not derv rings but you get the picture.

Another thing we should consider is "is it impractical for someone who wants an item to get it without buying it?" Like for example derv rings, is it impractical to get them if you want them without buying it? Not really. If you want the ring just kill dervs. So I don't think we need to make that item tradable. Make sense? What are your thoughts on that?
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  #22  
Old 09-28-2016, 04:51 PM
gravystain
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Right I already have several items in mind that a person would have to break that rule. Items in Seb like seb berserker cloaks and random frog drops are technically random and very rare chance but i dont think they should hit the market. I'll do what i can to get you a list.
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