Hacker

[gernblan]

Personally, I'd like to see a merge of the major databases. To me, it's silly watching them all get developed independently when all have pretty much the same goal. Seems like a lot of duplicated effort and wasted calories.

I am not saying that there should only be one database though. I do think that at least the efforts to duplicate EQ Live should be merged and shared into one major database. Then people can fork that off, add their own ideas, and release their superset versions.

[froglok23]

gernblan,

Do you mean a database, which would be the "offical" database and then the fortks woudl be PEQ/AX?

Personally, i think thats how it shoudl be also, but I think both are 2 far ahead of this, unless both teams communicate. Then comes the support roles, whos going to look after it, etc

1 Suggestion for this (may or may not be practical), would be both teams combining... however this would then limit peoples options, which people tend to avoid for obvious reasons.

Im for and against this personally lol (to quote ralph, im HAPPY and ANGRY).

Is this something, which can be flushged out more in a new thread under world / database building maybe?

- froglok

[froglok23]

Originally Posted by gernblan

I really think this thread is going somewhere

I do believe also, however we need more input from the admins / staff / devs *poke poke*

The more input we get, the more momentum we will get, which will in result start a massive movement! Let’s get the communication lines open!

- froglok

[Angelox]

I was hoping someone else would say this, as it too is usually taken in a wrong way (specially when it comes from me).
I always thought this to be a good idea.
http://eqemulator.net/forums/showthread.php?t=22209
At one time, Sesmar had started somthing like this, there was a database for us to build on, then there was the test server database where it eventually went to.
I was thinking, it would have to be a thing where, a person would get appointed a zone to work on (to avoid stepping on each others toes). For example, I want to do some work on gfay: somewhere it's posted angelox is working gfay for the next x-amount of days. If there was a general update to a group of zones this would have to be considered.
I wouldn't expect many people to be doing database work, so something like this would probably work.
Also, aside from the PEQ Editor, we would just have to be trusted, and granted shell access. some kind of port access for tools like the MySql ones. I found it very hard and frustrating, having to create sqls for someone else to run (I've had to do this with many servers).
In my case, I have a database, and will be mostly "porting" at first. < i think we would have to start with one of the database, rename it and port the rest. I'm not sure if all can be merged without problems.
With a good log system, we can prune out anyone who doesn't follow protocol, and with a good back up system we wouldn't loose much if someone screwed up.

Originally Posted by gernblan

Personally, I'd like to see a merge of the major databases. To me, it's silly watching them all get developed independently when all have pretty much the same goal. Seems like a lot of duplicated effort and wasted calories.

I am not saying that there should only be one database though. I do think that at least the efforts to duplicate EQ Live should be merged and shared into one major database. Then people can fork that off, add their own ideas, and release their superset versions.

[froglok23]

With a good log system, we can prune out anyone who doesn't follow protocol, and with a good back up system we wouldn't loose much if someone screwed up.

This could be done with #DEFINE EQEMUDBEDITOMODE with the source, to allow full loggin for database editors and such.

Very much doable indeed!

- froglok

[John Adams]

Meh, I am a firm believer in at least 1 standard, core database - and for me, that has always been PEQ. I believe their efforts to make a most-live-like database has worked perfectly, even if they do not release updates in a nice, clean packaged manner every 2 hours. :/ We had 2 or more "main" databases before, and while they both offered great content, it was often very confusing to try and "merge" them together. PEQ => Cavedude's. Then, Angelox made a database which became the next major step in a complete, live-like database. Cavedudes was merged into PEQ more or less, and is no longer required as a separate source of info.

To a newcomer, having all these different databases can be overwhelming. Whatever the end result, having ONE STABLE CORE database really needs to be our goal. No matter how "controls" it, no matter who "developed" it. You start splintering things here, we are no better than the WoWSpasm project, where every one is a dev, everyone is a db engineer, and every server is teh ubar shiznit best server/db on the planez.

I like CORE. Custom is that; custom. But 9 times out of 10, admins do not release their custom db's because it's theirs. I'd hate to end up seeing 20 custom EQEmu databases because everyone learned the term "fork" (which I think you actually mean branch, but ok ).

[devn00b]

z0mg gw db pwns all beyoches!

side note, i think the lack of response from doodman, fnw tells volumes. Back when the REAL dev team was together we came to the forums alot and i mean ALOT, Hogie at the time had the highest post count. As soon as the devlopers closed off themselves, closed up accepting new code (sept a few bits here and there) everything went down hill.

Developers releasing builds with the following comments "Tested on XXX platform but not XXX" is not acceptable either, "back in the day" that would never have happened. "oh it compiles ship it!

[oldlurker]

Boon, flawfinder, rats and other C source scanners might be a good start for finding this exploit.

Btw: I would sugest to see that the Moderators start doing some moderating and bring the hammer down on (the few) people who do not contribute and keep derailing threads for the sake of their ego.

[John Adams]

Originally Posted by oldlurker

Btw: I would sugest to see that the Moderators start doing some moderating and bring the hammer down on (the few) people who do not contribute and keep derailing threads for the sake of their ego.

Believe me, oldlurker... if I had the power, some accounts would be banned just because I don't like their pot-stirring antics. Unfortunately, all I can do is lock or delete threads - the latter I usually do not do because I rather enjoy the more intelligent community members seeing the true mental capacity of 'the tools'.

[froglok23]

side note, i think the lack of response from doodman, fnw tells volumes.

I have to agree :( We need to get input from them and we need to to move the project forward, with each day that passes by without them posting the information we need, makes it that much harder to continue without appointing a new dev team :(

Sorry guys, but we need active develoeprs who, not only code, but be an active member of the community.

- froglok

[TheLieka]

Originally Posted by froglok23

I have to agree :( We need to get input from them and we need to to move the project forward, with each day that passes by without them posting the information we need, makes it that much harder to continue without appointing a new dev team :(

Sorry guys, but we need active develoeprs who, not only code, but be an active member of the community.

- froglok

Frog, I don't want to get into a piss fight with you, as I think that we are in agreement about 99% of our points.

In fact, I think the only difference I see between us right now is that I've given up on the idea of feedback from the devs (after about the 5th day of this thread, with no input from FNW and Doodman). My post was not to be taken as "Hey guys, I've got a great idea", but rather "They are not going to acknowledge this, then we need to move on it without them."

Granted, as they say: “There's no reason to replace one tyrant three thousand miles away with three thousand tyrants one mile away”, and I don't think we should be rash and shoot ourselves in the foot; however, I think we need to start planning and move on this with the concept that the devs are NOT going to all come out and say "omg, afk, sorry". They clearly don't care about this, and aren't going to acknowledge it.

I don't think we need two versions of the source, but the community is the project, not man behind the curtain. At this point, saying "Let's wait for the devs" is like saying "don't worry, God will sort it out for us." Sorry guys, but if I thought the power of prayer was going to set this project free, I wouldn't be posting to these forums.

With that said, I don't see any need in hijacking the code, and claiming the SourceForge in the name of France or anything like that. In fact, there's really no reason to involve the current dev team if they don't choose to be included. Instead, as I said before, let's just set up shop next door, elect a new dev team and move on. If for some reason the devs decide that they'd like to be involved with what we're doing, then dandy! If they choose to stay silent, then whatever. I just don't think getting this far then saying "wait, you didn't say we were going to actually do anything" shows a lot of commitment. If we're going to go, let's go. If we're just going to sit on our thumbs and wait for the devs to say something, then I'll go find something else productive to do (like gnaw through an artery).

If all the devs decided that they never wanted anything to do with this project again, what would our course of action be? That's where I think we are. When the devs don't give us input, even when we are questioning their existence, I say they're done with us. Since we are the project, I say they're done with the project.

By all means, if I'm wrong, then let the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, The Toothfairy, or the Devs come in and explain why I'm wrong.

If we don't move on this, then this thread is just going to reach 15 pages, and we'll still be saying "Hellooooo, can one of the devs hear us?” At that point, we've only validated the opinion that the community is incapable of running itself, and that this project and all decisions to be made come exclusively from an iron curtained totalitarian oligarchy. If we mobilize, and say, "Fine, if you don't want to be involved in the decisions, then that doesn't prevent the decisions from being made", then they'll either choose to start communicating or drop out.

We have enthusiasm and excitement right now, if we drag this on without acting on it, that enthusiasm will die out and people will be cynical to the concept of anything changing, if this comes up again.

Like I said before:

Let's get this thing started. What other items need to be handled?

Dax

[froglok23]

Ponint taken, good points made actually.

I was giving them a change to repsond to this thread, but as you have said, it has been 5 days.

I propose this. Lets move forward without them and get things rolling. They have had no input, feedback, comments, abusive posts, or suggestions on any of these issues which need adreessing.

I also propose that we need to take control of the site and get the passwords handed over. If not, its time for a new domain or something. We need people with access on baord to move the project forward

My comments were never ment to offend or piss on anyway, just differnt avenues but as you said, i also thinkg 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% of our points are the same, id be worried if they where extactly 100% the same!

Opinions and suggestions are good things people!

-froglok

[Kensh]

Originally Posted by froglok23

Ponint taken, good points made actually.

I was giving them a change to repsond to this thread, but as you have said, it has been 5 days.

I propose this. Lets move forward without them and get things rolling. They have had no input, feedback, comments, abusive posts, or suggestions on any of these issues which need adreessing.

I also propose that we need to take control of the site and get the passwords handed over. If not, its time for a new domain or something. We need people with access on baord to move the project forward

My comments were never ment to offend or piss on anyway, just differnt avenues but as you said, i also thinkg 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999% of our points are the same, id be worried if they where extactly 100% the same!

Opinions and suggestions are good things people!

-froglok

Who are you to "propose" anything?

[froglok23]

Exactly right, I’m someone who wants to help get this project moving again and full pace, As are the other members who are proposing positive ideas, suggestions and feedback

- froglok

[LethalEncounter]

If you guys decide to fork the project I wish you luck. Not very many people know how much work is involved in running a project and keeping it moving forward. I just dont know if you will find enough development support for such a goal. In theory it sounds good, but in practice a fork usually hurts both the new and old project if the teams arent strong and cohesive.