Populating newer zones..?

CHOO CHOO

[John Adams]

Originally Posted by bobbydole

However, getting back on topic, whats the best way of getting the zones populated?

You can either go off a good memory, EQ content sites that detail mob placement and stats, or import one of the zones post-PEQ from Cavedude's database and get to tweakin to live-like. Other than that, I do not know of any way to currently run around EQLive and gather spawns, objects, doors, etc.


And Angelox, fwiw, your questions have never been "dumb". I've learned more off of just your posts than almost anyone else here. You should feel good about your contributions, indeed.

Originally Posted by mattmeck

CHOO CHOO

LOL @ Matt

[bobbydole]

Originally Posted by John Adams

You can either go off a good memory, EQ content sites that detail mob placement and stats, or import one of the zones post-PEQ from Cavedude's database and get to tweakin to live-like. Other than that, I do not know of any way to currently run around EQLive and gather spawns, objects, doors, etc.

I think I know the answer, but what about using the already collected packets from the projecteq's website..? Any one have any updates on eqbuilder or eqextractor?

[Angelox]

Originally Posted by bobbydole

Wow.. I guess I didn't expect this kind of response, all I wanted to know was the best way of populating the zones based on packets collection. And it sounds like I can't just login to live and collect the NPC names, spawn locs and pathing info, because none of the packet collectors currently work with live. And i haven't been able to figure what to do with the packet files currently at www.projecteq.net/logs/ (which seems like they're what i'm looking for), eqbuilder/eqExtractor doesn't seem to work.. :(

So i'm unsure on the steps I should take next. I would like to get the zones populated as close to EQLive as possible, but i'm not sure I have the time to manually add the mobs to the zones. I don't know how long it would take compared with using the packet logs.

As for the problem with low population and stuff, I'm not really sure I care about that stuff right now. For me EQLive is the reference, which everything else should be based off of, so you want that as good as you can get it. Fine-Tuning it for your population size should be done by a server-by-server basis. So when i get PoD up and running, and submitted it to Angelox's DB or PEQ or whatever, people can do whatever they want with it. But there should always be that reference for every one to access. I think that's what the PEQ guys were aiming for, but it (appears) to be bogged down. That's why I think Angelox's DB is a good idea, like PEQ but with out the data restrictions.

However, getting back on topic, whats the best way of getting the zones populated?

Don't get your hopes up with the "packet collectors" - at best, I would say they give you starting point on the given zone you're working on.
The only real way to get good work done is to get out there, choose a zone , and start working on it. This zone you choose needs to be one you are familiar with and have playe a lot. You will have to learn how to use and juggle editors around, you will need to learn Perl and Sql (not depend on just the editors).
Here's some of my method of bringing a zone to "live" - let say I want to do BoT;
I've played BOT. so I know a little about it, but not all. I start with my browser and go here;
http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/zonelist.html choose "Torden, the Bastion of Thunder", then I pocceed to copy past a list of all named mobs with their drops- example;
----------
Atle Cloudburst 64 - 64 Monster

Blue Diamond
Brick of Ethereal Energy
Diamond
Fungus Clump
Lightning Encased Signet
Orb of Electricity
Ornate Chain Bracelet Pattern
Ornate Silk Boot Pattern
Peridot
Raw Diamond
Scepter of Lightning
Shard of Pure Energy
Spectral Parchment
Strand of Ether
Earring of Thunder
--------------

That's entry number one with his drops - these drops need to be sorted out into different loot drop lists, such as "general" (raw diamond, strand of ether, etc), rare ( Ornate Silk Boot Pattern, etc), and unique (Earring of Thunder, Scepter of Lightning),. The latter apllies only to this named mob. the first two drop lists, you'll be building on as you go, and will apply to most mobs in the zone. Also, sometimes there is extremly rare drops in the zone which would require another drop list.

After I have made a full list of all named and printed it out - I then dump Cavedudes data for that zone and merge it into my DB. This gives me a "head start".

Then I start to make the named mobs ; I get their stats from whats posted at allakhazam, and looking at what other mobs in the zone are and what they do.

After setting that up, then I look at the grids and pathing add/fix whatever needs it. Also look around for mistakes; for example in droga, Im still removing "cave_guardians" that for some reason are duped all over the zone ( and this was taken from the PEQ db).

the rest is "fine tuning"; if the zone doesn't work, I make a "zoner" - the named mobs get put into spawn cycle.

Finally, there's the quests (raids, etc) , and i still need to a lot of that. The most important thing to this is to "stay with it" , don't give up easy, and finish what you start.
There's no "easy" way around this, no matter what you do, you will end up doing a lot of "data-entry" work.

Edit;
If you do decide to work on a zone, tell us which zone, so we can choose another or you make sure no one else is already building it.

[Angelox]

Originally Posted by mattmeck

CHOO CHOO

Is this a new one?

[eq4me]

Originally Posted by sdabbs65

PEQ has not updated anything since Thu Mar 17, 2005.<last release>
they have been updateing quests and such but for databases nothing
new in a while.
it <WAS> the best Everquest live like database avaliable for EQEmulator tho
at that time.

But peq-luclin-rc1 war released on Jul 17 2006?

For tuning EQEmu to a low population: Yes, there should be an feeling on accomplishement. But if some poor Monk has to camp Raster of Guk or a Druid killing Mitty for 20+ hours straight for the sake of a life-like experience I am not for it.
For the ultimate reason I quitted commercial MMORPs alltogether: Most people want it nice an boring. No real danger, just a stream of steady exp and items. It was increasingly hard to get some people together that want to wander off the beaten path and willing to try new, maybe stupid and sometimes even lethal things.

Oh, by the way: Happy Birthday Angelox!

[John Adams]

Indeed!

Birthday:
October 10, 1952

Someone here IS older than me! Woot!

Happy birthday, sir!

[Angelox]

Aurg! old age sucks! I get stiffer and more sore every year.
I retired early; my work offered me to get out early, and I was gone in a flash. So I got plenty of "spare time" to bug you all here

[bobbydole]

Originally Posted by Angelox

Don't get your hopes up with the "packet collectors" - at best, I would say they give you starting point on the given zone you're working on.
After I have made a full list of all named and printed it out - I then dump Cavedudes data for that zone and merge it into my DB. This gives me a "head start".

Then I start to make the named mobs ; I get their stats from whats posted at allakhazam, and looking at what other mobs in the zone are and what they do.

Edit;
If you do decide to work on a zone, tell us which zone, so we can choose another or you make sure no one else is already building it.

thanks for the tips!

All I was really looking for was a head start from the packet collections. I really didn't want to have to manually input all the mobs in the zone. I actually did get eqextractor to work, i can some info out of a pf file and put it into a text file. however I'm not sure how helpful it will be since most of the files I was looking at are actually text files and not pf files. I just happened to click the pf file, so I thought they were all pf files. Anyway hopefully i can start on getting some zone going tonight.

btw happy birthday!

[Angelox]

Originally Posted by bobbydole

thanks for the tips!

All I was really looking for was a head start from the packet collections. I really didn't want to have to manually input all the mobs in the zone. I actually did get eqextractor to work, i can some info out of a pf file and put it into a text file. however I'm not sure how helpful it will be since most of the files I was looking at are actually text files and not pf files. I just happened to click the pf file, so I thought they were all pf files. Anyway hopefully i can start on getting some zone going tonight.

btw happy birthday!

Cavedude has most of these zones populated - I don't know how he did it, but what ever he has, is very EQLive-Like", just unfinished. I suspect he may have use packet collectors also. This is why I start with his work.
Fact of the matter is, if you look good at the PEQ database you will see "left-over" data in there, that matches perfectly with the CaveDude DB.
For example, when I dumped npcs from cavedudes to to my DB (which was started with PEQ), the loots were already there, just like the ones in Cavedudes.
I think what PEQ did to start was, use Cavedudes as a base to start. I don't think starting from scratch (packet-collectors) is really not needed -these other people already have done that and have the data. what could be left for a packet collector to get in a zone? Named Mob? it could take days for just one of those to spawn - I'd rather find mine at allakhazam.
I dunno, maybe I have the wrong idea on what a packet collector does

[John Adams]

Bobby is definitely obsessed with the packet collector data, even though I have said numerous times that Cavedude has plenty o' data, just not tuned (or named mobs in some cases). I cannot say anymore without repeating myself.

I personally thing since the Emu has been developed up to Luclin (really), that all the data needed is in place in PEQ. What more is needed? Well, except to spawn some PoP gods and solo them just for fun.

[bobbydole]

Ooh come on.. I'm not totally obsessed! Well.. ok maybe.. a little bit. but really all I want is to populate the new zones as close to live as I can get it. I would rather have a system that automates most of the tedious stuff, and can get the data directly from live rather then based on my memory. There are some zones that i would like populated but I've never been there..

[fathernitwit]

the packet collector still works with live, but eqextractor has not been updated to understand the packets... the only reason it has not been updated is that nobody has done enough packet collecting to make it worth updating... I have said it many times: that as soon as somebody makes it worth my while to update it, I will update it. That likely means dozens of good packet collects.

as for building from collects, all of the tools needed are available. eqextractor understands all of the binary logs on peq's site. eqbuilder understands the eqextractor output and the older text based logs. etc... thats exactly how cavedude did it.

I will state that it would be crazy IMO to not use collected data to initially spawn a zone. If you ask me, this is the primary reason that PEQs database still exists when so many other (hand spawned) ones do not... people making shit up from memory just dosent work, especially on a large scale, so many intricacies that make the world emmersive are lost. PEQ exists on the foundation of strict controls on modifications, such that somebody who thinks they remember something a certain way does not screw up the database without doing their homework first. This was a very significant problem for the older databases.

As for PEQ... I will start with a general philosophy item, which is that we have not just dumpped all the packet logs into the database as fast as we can for a very specific reason... that reason being that the tools used to build the world are constantly evolving... and very rarely does an automated tool work on a zone once it has had any sort manual tuning (the manual mods generally get lost). Further, more packet collects get collected for zones, and there are no tools to date which are capable of merging a new packet collect into an existing database. eqbuilder must be given everything all at once and then once that zone is built, its manual from that point on. PEQ goes in small increments to minimize the impact of these things.

As for PEQ not being responsive, the truth of it falls into two categories. One is that the team is small and busy, and we do not get to the forums as much as we should. But the overwhelming issue with people helping on PEQ is that people seem to think they will be given direct database access. The fact of the matter is that the PEQ database is built with very high quality standards, and until a person has proven themself capible of maintaining these standards, there is no hope of obtaining database access. The fact of the matter is that the only way to contribute to the project is by posting SQL updates to the database. I have put in a lot of time to make EQEmu and PEQ Editor log all its updates to files for exactly this reason... but at the end of the day, there hasnt been more than a handfull of SQL fixes to any PEQ release in many months.. (BTW Angelox, as far as I can tell, you never posted anything about the database on the PEQ forums, only about PEQ editor)

I am not really interested in hearing follow up comments about PEQ on this topic, so dont bother. PEQ will continue to move forward at its own pace, and hopefully there will be enough of a trickle of people willing to contribute within the bounds of the PEQ model to keep the project alive. Maybe times have changed enough that this model cannot survive, time will tell.

[eq4me]

What is the harm in distributing semi regular updates? As it is now you always have to wonder if some bug or discrepancy in the three month old luclin rc1 release isnt already fixed and you are just wasting your time doing it again. I bet that more people would come forward with contributions if you would post peq updates as often as you do EQEmu updates. I certainly would.

[Angelox]

Originally Posted by eq4me

What is the harm in distributing semi regular updates? As it is now you always have to wonder if some bug or discrepancy in the three month old luclin rc1 release isnt already fixed and you are just wasting your time doing it again. I bet that more people would come forward with contributions if you would post peq updates as often as you do EQEmu updates. I certainly would.

I agree with you 100% here - And I'm sure I'm not alone.