Classic Spell Effects Do Not Come Out of Hands

[Fifflefluff]

I think this might be a well-known issue, but on the two servers I've seen recently (Project 1999 and Vallon/Tallon Zek) that have made efforts to bring back the classic spell effects, they haven't been able to get the particle effects to come streaming out of the characters' hands like they should. This is pretty awkward, and it robs a lot of spells of their classic charm. I've tried searching for information about it here on EQEmu's forums, but nothing definitive has come up. I did find one thread that mentioned there was another server that had the same problem:

Originally Posted by Semedaien

Old Spell Effects (except on hands).

However, I was unable to find any other threads that discussed the problem.

My own observations on Project 1999 yielded some interesting results that might also already be known. I was in the Greater Faydark, grouped with a friend of mine, when I noticed these blue sparks coming out of thin air in the middle of the zone:



^casting Salve in Greater Faydark (by actually casting the spell I'd memmed)

This happened whenever I or the player I was with cast a spell (the spell "Salve," to be exact). The location of the spot from which the particles were flowing was right around 0, 0, 0. When I asked my groupmate to try casting the same spell while he was far away in another part of the zone, I did not see any particles flow from 0, 0, 0. That kind of makes sense, though, since you wouldn't expect the client to render particle effects for a spell being cast by someone beyond clip range, anyway.

Later, in Neriak Foreign Quarter, I observed the same phenomenon:



^Casting SoW in Neriak Foreign Quarter (by clicking on Yttrium Studded Leather Boots in inventory)

Here, the particles were located on the ground rather than in the air, but the location was still right around 0, 0, 0. I see NPC spell effects appear here, too, for example when the X`Ta sisters (Timpi, Tempi, and Tompi, the three necromancers who stand on top of the parapets and speak in rhyme) cast their spells.

I also tested to see if the phenomenon happened on the Vallon/Tallon Zek server, and sure enough, it did. I saw particles behaving in exactly the same way in exactly the same spots in both the Greater Faydark and Neriak Foreign Quarter.

So, it would seem as though the particle effects that should be coming out of player/NPC hands is indeed in the game, even with the Titanium client (which is what I was using, of course). And it seems like all one would have to do is tell the client to make those spell particle effects appear on the players'/NPC's hands, going in the right direction. Needless to say, it would be fantastic if someone were to fix this problem, since it would mean bringing back a significant and essential visual component of Classic EQ -- so does anybody have any thoughts on where one might start to find a solution?

[Secrets]

I don't know if it still works, but you can try deleting spellsnew.eff and spellsnew.edd, prior to titanium this worked, I haven't tested it but it should bring the old spell particles back. I remember reading this years ago, so i'm going off memory.

[Xzerion19]

Secrets,

You are correct, that does bring the old spell effects back but what he is referring to is the graphics that used to come out of your hands will instead come out of a random place in each zone on the ground. The effect particles work just fine, its the ones from the hands that do not match up right.

[Zard]

It may not be random...tutorialb also shows these particle effects at location 0 0 0. does anyone think or have any thoughts as to if the fix may be in the files of the everquest game directory....or might it take a programmer to get into the code to tell these particle effects where they really belong?

[Fifflefluff]

Originally Posted by Secrets

I don't know if it still works, but you can try deleting spellsnew.eff and spellsnew.edd, prior to titanium this worked, I haven't tested it but it should bring the old spell particles back. I remember reading this years ago, so i'm going off memory.

Yes, I removed these files before playing on either of the servers. In fact, in order to play on the Project 1999 server, I removed all of the following files from my EverQuest root directory:

spellsnew.edd
spellsnew.eff
arena.eqg
arena_EnvironmentEmitters.txt
lavastorm.eqg
nektulos.eqg
Nektulos_EnvironmentEmitters.txt

I also replaced the spells_us.txt with the spells_us.txt provided by Nilbog here. There's a similar spells_us.txt replacement necessary for playing on Vallon/Tallon Zek.

[nilbog]

sorry for backwards npc here.. but i believe what he is talking about is the spells shooting out of their hands like this

[Fifflefluff]

Yeah, that's what I meant.

[Slaya21]

so still no update on this huh?? what a shame :(

[PathToEternity]

How would this be coded? Isn't this sort of thing client based?

I would really like to see this fixed also.

[Dibalamin]

This would most likely be source based. The source needs to be told to find the player/mob and attach that particle effect to the models hands.

That is the simple version =p

Since the primary focus of the project is move forward (as it should be), the back stuff gets archived and forgotten.

I truly wonder though, how easy this would be to fix? C++ ain't my forte...at all, ever, however.

[Tabidzukare]

What you have to think about is this:

If deleting the file brought back the old graphics, but changed the positioning of said graphics, then IT (meaning the deleted files) should contain the positioning information. Since just by deleting the file no one changed any source code, yet the position changed.. that's why it would lead me to believe it's not hard coded.

Even if it is hard coded, I have some ideas how to get around it. Namely the fact that the 'newspells.edd/eff' positioned itself properly right. If position data ISNT stored in the .edd/.eff files, then wouldn't changing the file name of the original spells.eff, into newspells.eff change this..

Another thought. The 'newspells' use two files a .edd/.eff, while the old spells are just an .eff file.. that could mean positional data is stored in the .edd file, in which case if you keep the .edd file and rename the original spells.eff to newspells.eff it might preserve the correct position.

I have several more thorough ideas but until I get home I can't try. Good luck guys, lets not settle for "no" as an answer, get in the files and make this work. I know we can do it, if we all share our thoughts and tests.

[trevius]

If I was to guess, I would say that this is probably a limitation of the Titanium client. More than likely, whatever was used to tell the spell effects where to source from has been removed in newer clients since effects are obviously handled at least somewhat differently.

Though, if the client is still able to receive the hand location for old spells, my best guess would be that the info would be somewhere in the spawn structure or one of the other structures. It almost sounds like it just doesn't know at all where or who to tie the effects to, so it just sends them to 0 0 0. Otherwise, I would guess that it is something coded into the newer versions of eqgame.exe that can't be corrected in any normal way.

[Tabidzukare]

Thanks so much Trevius for your insight. I went ahead and did some tests myself, just to see if anything yielded .. well.. anything! Here's what I did..

Quick notes- T.Ed = Titanium Edition, VE = Velious Era, (actual) means not renamed from my first experiement (the T. Ed spells/spellsnew.eff/edds)

• TEST 1
  Using
  • spells.eff --> spellsnew.eff (renamed)
  Not Using:
  • spellsnew.edd
  • spellsnew.eff (actual)
  Results:
  No spell graphics OR sounds whatsoever.
  Notes:
  Now having observed more closely the file structure .eff appears to be sound storage files... if that's true.. why then does deleting of all things an .eff file restore the old particles.. intriguing to say the least.

• TEST 2
  Using
  • spells.eff (actual)
  • spellsnew.EDD
  Not Using
  • spellsnew.eff (actual)
  Results:
  Classic Spell Graphics (CSG), Not Bound To Hands (NBTH)
  Notes:
  Restored the visualization of spells -- whats interesting about that is that, by restoring a .eff (supposed sound archive..) the graphics returned. Making use of the .edd file for the new spells changed nothing readily visible. (Haven't tried a renamed spells --> spellsnew.eff + spellsnew.edd)

• TEST 3
  Using
  • spells.eff (actual)
  • spellsnew.edd
  • Folder: SpellEffects (VE)
  Not Using
  • Folder: SpellEffects (T.Ed)
  • spellsnew.eff (actual)
  Results:
  CSG NBTH
  Notes:
  At this point seeing no direct connection with spells.eff/.edd I started looking closer at the folders. I compared them to what existed back with a fresh trilogy install and now. Many things were missing however they did share (relating to spells) a single 'SpellEffects' folder. While this test yielded no difference. Take a look INSIDE of the folder. There's a 'paths.ini' and inside it details information such as offsets of spell effects and the control of the graphics themselves, it's text based even replacing it with a velious paths.ini though didn't yield anything. I'll be digging into this file later and seeing if I can't change anything with it, but for now it remains an entertaining mystery.

• TEST 4
  Using
  • spells.eff (actual)
  • Folder: SpellEffects (VE)
  Not Using:
  • spellsnew.edd
  • spellsnew.eff (actual)
  • actorEmittersNew.eff
  • Folder: ActorEffects (T.Ed)
  • Folder: SpellEffects (T.Ed)
  Results:
  CSG NBTH
  Notes:
  ActorEffects doesn't exist in the Velious install, so I'm thinking it only matters to the 'new spells' as it didn't effect anything visually by removing it.

• TEST 5
  Using (All Velious Era)
  • spells.eff
  • spellsnew.eff
  • spellsnew.edd
  • spdat.eff
  • Folder: SpellEffects
  Not Using (All Titanium Edition)
  • spellsnew.edd
  • spellsnew.eff (actual)
  • spells.eff
  • actorEmittersNew.edd
  • Folder: ActorEffects
  • Folder: SpellEffects
  Results:
  CSG NBTH
  Notes:
  There was an additional Velious file called spdat.eff... I thought it might contain something, so I added it.. sadly there was no effect, perhaps sp here means split paw?? Well.. I'm no professing to be smart here One notable exception here is including spellsnew.eff yielded 'new' graphics for a few spells like Siphon Strength, yet NOT for Lifetap which was changed visually at the same time.

• TEST 6
  Using (Velious Era)
  • spells.eff
  • spdat.eff
  • Folder: SpellEffects
  Not Using:
  • spellsnew.edd (T.Ed/VE)
  • spellsnew.eff (T.Ed/VE)
  • spells.eff (T.Ed)
  • actorEmittersNew.edd (T.Ed)
  • Folder: ActorEffects (T.Ed)
  • Folder: SpellEffects (T.Ed)
  Results:
  CSG NBTH
  Notes:
  Well.. I'm hitting a brick wall (repeatedly!) though I'm sure some more enlightened individuals will note this with sympathy and perhaps a bit of humor as well...

• TEST 7
  Using
  • spells.eff (VE)
  • Folder: SpellEffects (VE)
  Not Using:
  • spellsnew.edd (T.Ed/VE)
  • spellsnew.eff (T.Ed/VE)
  • spells.eff(T.Ed)
  • actorEmittersNew.edd (T.Ed)
  • Folder: ActorEffects (T.Ed)
  • Folder: SpellEffects (T.Ed)
  • SPOffsets.ini from Folder: Resources (T.Ed)
  Results:
  CSG NBTH
  Notes:
  Another pleasing mystery as paths.ini, this SPOffsets.ini contains information on offsets of spells based on player characters.. it has the ability to alter X/Z if i recall correctly though deleting it had no effect whatsoever on the old graphics. Perhaps altering this while using the new graphics could prove that something internal is using this information (in which case we couldn't alter it .. easily)

Final thoughts
Though my tests were in essence, useless.. I've learned a few things.
The spell particles themselves, appear to be controlled by the text file paths.ini which links the .tga files in SpellEffects together to form an effect based on a line.

The particles in the .tga files don't relate to the graphics coming from the hands that I can see..

Ok - so two separate entities. Now, the curious thing is that .eff files seem to alter the appearance of the graphics despite them also controlling sounds. There remains one set of files in the SpellEffects folder (.dds if I remember correctly) and these could possibly be the hand emissions.

On a side note here. I haven't had time to look at the tool that views spell particles.. but in that video are there hand emissions floating with the various effects?? If not, the first big thing is to locate where these hand graphics are and try to identify a link between them. Even if we can just mess up the hand portion of the graphics we'll at least know what affects them and see about controlling it.

I'll try more on these leads later.. but holy smokes batman did this post absorb 40 minutes of my day..

[Dibalamin]

The following is actually serious:

When Erudites cast Ice Comet with old graphics, the hand graphics are in their ass. I mean literally shooting from their ass. I'm serious.

[aaron1231]

I know that If you delete the files to restore old spell graphics there is a Hand issue.. Hopefully someone can resolve that...

But I was going back to the good ol' graphics for my Bard spells, They are breathtaking I think... BUT!!!

Only Selos works!, All other bard spell effects dont work! Only the Selos/charm/sleep spell effect (the white orb style effect) works, The healing/clarity line style doesnt work, nor the others!!!

So, Who ever figures out How to Fix the Hand problem should look into this for all us Bards!!

Thanks..