open beta testing for classic legit pve

[sasaluge]

Join Date: Aug 2004

older than all of ur accounts i see.. nuff said

[Traul]

Originally Posted by clericgildina

The team really strives for this to be a classic experience and we don't want any part of the game to be "easier" for the sake of convenience. Putting a self teleportation system into the game would just be damaging I think for the community.

I hope you guys reconsider. It's not necessarily for convenience, but rather to give players the gameplay opportunities they had in classic. Be realistic, the server population will (and this is generous) cap around 100 at peak times. 100 players spread all across Norrath, spanning 50 levels. The fact is unless you want to force people to travel ~1 hour every time they want to group up with people (especially at low-mid levels), some form of reasonable transportation should be implemented.

Conifer's idea doesn't make the game any less legit, it just offers people the same grouping opportunities they would have had in classic.

Originally Posted by sasaluge

Join Date: Aug 2004

older than all of ur accounts i see.. nuff said

And your posts are still just as useless as they were back then.

[pfyon]

You could include the peqzone command (or a variation of it) and make it give you rez sickness for 10 mins when you use it.

The problem with allowing a teleport command/ability is the intermediate zones that no one cares about aren't used. Solution: make them useful (probably not possible if you're just recreating classic).

You could also make a custom zone command/item that you could only use every x minutes and will only teleport you a maximum number of zones away. This would make the player think when to use it (to avoid kithicor at night for example). If it were an item, you'd force players to have to run to their corpses still.

[clericgildina]

Lots of posts and I will do the best I can to try and provide answers and/or reasoning to some of these questions but I will definitely point Nilbog to this thread to add anything I may have missed.

Originally Posted by Conifer

I hope to be able to possibly jump on this weekend and check things out.

I hope I didn't ruffle any feathers or annoy anyone by posting that transport idea. I just threw the druid/wizard transport idea out there because it popped in my head as I was reading through this thread. It was one of those ideas that if a compromise had to be made, it sounded better than either #zone or PoK. I usually play a druid as a main, so transportation is usually not an issue for me anyway.

I remember how it was before the PoK was around with the constant whispers and requests for a teleport. I usually had no problem with going and getting someone if I wasn't busy or in a good group. Then again, I do remember quite a few occasions being cussed out and called about every name under the sun (by random people I'd never even met) for not dropping whatever I was doing and teleporting halfway across the world to pick them up and take them to where they wanted to go. It seems like those guys were also the types that would always say something like, "Paying well!" or "I'll make it worth your time!" only to have them end up /rude gesturing you and run off without so much as a thanks; let alone a copper for your time. Ah, the good old days.

But on the other hand, I also made a lot of good friends by teleporting people around. I also got invited into a lot of groups as a result of taking the time to teleport a few people. The cash supplement wasn't bad either. I actually got my first pair of Golden Efreeti Boots from money I made teleporting people around. I never was lucky with getting Djarn to drop them when I was there.

I can see the point of soulbinders being almost a requirement. I remember there used to be people who it seems only sat at the West Freeport gate or at the main lift in Kelethin and bound people all day and night for tips. It was the low level casters way of getting cash for spells and equipment. It worked pretty good for a new game with a large population and only the original three continents, but once Kunark launched it got a little tougher to find someone to bind you. Enter Velious, and getting a bind could be a major hassle if it wasn't prime time.

As far as multi-boxing goes, I guess some people love it, and others hate it. I would most likely single-box anyway so whatever is decided there wouldn't bother me any.

Hmmm...my P.S. statement didn't post correctly earlier. What I was going to say was that if the boats worked correctly, I would definitely prefer riding those as opposed to using those translocators. But I bet they are definitely a challenge to get working, considering Sony didn't ever bother to fix them.


Good luck,
Conifer

No ruffling of feathers, we are a pretty thick-skinned bunch and handle things in a pretty civilized manner. This project is firmly planted as classic, and while some people value convenience, everyone on this project values accuracy. Giving people the ability to go wherever they wish at any time really takes away from not only your starting locale, but also your racial penalties.

Look at it like this: In classic if you were a Troll or Ogre, you had no safe haven on Faydwer. You were hated by every race and you would have no where to sell or bank. If we had translocaters in place, a troll could hunt in Mistmoore and then leave the continent via a translocator instantly, selling their loot and banking all their cash. They really suffer no penalty for choosing their race and they would have never had to encounter an enemy race from that continent. Where in reality that Troll in classic would have had to either pay for a teleport from a druid/wizard to get back to Grobb or take the boat back through all the dwarves.

I understand where people are coming from with regards to wanting some form of teleportation service. I just honestly can't see it coming to fruition on this server. I don't think it will be the type of thing that will keep people from playing on the server. Just something that kind of annoys people, much like many aspects of classic did.

Originally Posted by Traul

I hope you guys reconsider. It's not necessarily for convenience, but rather to give players the gameplay opportunities they had in classic. Be realistic, the server population will (and this is generous) cap around 100 at peak times. 100 players spread all across Norrath, spanning 50 levels. The fact is unless you want to force people to travel ~1 hour every time they want to group up with people (especially at low-mid levels), some form of reasonable transportation should be implemented.

Conifer's idea doesn't make the game any less legit, it just offers people the same grouping opportunities they would have had in classic.

Like I said, I understand your guys' concern and I understand that population is going to be a large factor for this server. Issues of things like Soulbinders, Translocators and Multi-Boxing all firmly rely on population. Who knows, maybe there is not enough people that want to put themselves through the grind of a true classic experience and this will have to be addressed. But it will be addressed at that time.

The thing is, everyone will be in the same situation as you. It isn't like everyone on the server will be in Crushbone and you are the only person in Blackburrow. Everyone will try to stick close to their locale, much like you did on Live. If you start in Freeport, then you will be doing NRO and Oasis. If you start in Qeynos you will be doing Blackburrow and the Karanas.

Originally Posted by pfyon

You could include the peqzone command (or a variation of it) and make it give you rez sickness for 10 mins when you use it.

The problem with allowing a teleport command/ability is the intermediate zones that no one cares about aren't used. Solution: make them useful (probably not possible if you're just recreating classic).

You could also make a custom zone command/item that you could only use every x minutes and will only teleport you a maximum number of zones away. This would make the player think when to use it (to avoid kithicor at night for example). If it were an item, you'd force players to have to run to their corpses still.

I can guarantee you that #zone will not be given to people on the server. It is available for the beta, but that will be the extent of it. Not even a variation of #zone will be permitted. I also can't foresee any item teleportation being permitted either.

There will be no "custom" zones. Although there are a lot of zones that are basically custom since they had to be built from scratch. So I guess you can consider that to be a form of a custom zone.


Like I said I will point Nilbog towards this thread and he can hopefully clear up any questions I may not have handled properly.

[pfyon]

Originally Posted by clericgildina

I can guarantee you that #zone will not be given to people on the server. It is available for the beta, but that will be the extent of it. Not even a variation of #zone will be permitted. I also can't foresee any item teleportation being permitted either.

There will be no "custom" zones. Although there are a lot of zones that are basically custom since they had to be built from scratch. So I guess you can consider that to be a form of a custom zone.

Just keep in mind that a server has to be fun to attract people. If people enjoy spending hours travelling between locations, you're good to go. Same goes for people staying in one area of the world.

I can see local grouping being successful if you were looking at population sizes of like 500 or more, but as a previous poster pointed out, you're more likely to see 50-100 people at peak periods (spread over 50 levels). You might also find the server's player base is more weighted towards teleporting classes.

Of course, if it works, you're more likely to have close-knit groups and guilds.

Again, I don't want to dissuade you from your idea for this server. I just don't want to see so much work go to waste if the server doesn't work out well.

[Dibalamin]

Of course, if it works, you're more likely to have close-knit groups and guilds.

This is the target. A lot of what EQ was was the community. We have quite a bit of RL friends that are going to be on the server, probably in the neighborhood of 20+. POK and to a very small extent, Nexus is what siren'd the swansong of EQ for me. It removed the inter-reliance of players on each other: MGB Buffs, instant travel, etc. EQ classes were balanced on the needs & detriments of other classes. Once those were removed EQ became much less interactive and more like something else entirely.

[Traul]

Originally Posted by Dibalamin

This is the target. A lot of what EQ was was the community. We have quite a bit of RL friends that are going to be on the server, probably in the neighborhood of 20+. POK and to a very small extent, Nexus is what siren'd the swansong of EQ for me. It removed the inter-reliance of players on each other: MGB Buffs, instant travel, etc. EQ classes were balanced on the needs & detriments of other classes. Once those were removed EQ became much less interactive and more like something else entirely.

I just don't understand why you would run the high chance of turning off everybody except the 'absolute hardcore classic players' over what could be a small compromise. We're not talking about enabling PoK, but just putting pay-to-use teleporters at each spire. Then hey, if the population becomes large enough, they can always be removed.

You guys are aiming for classic, but classic didn't have server populations of <100. Classic wasn't designed for such low populations. You've got to make minor adjustments to compensate for this or else gameplay will suffer greatly.

[Traul]

Also, having the spire-travel system Conifer suggested isn't going to damage class interaction if there isn't a druid within 8 zones to interact with in the first place.

[Conifer]

Wow, quite a bit of posts on this matter of teleports and such. Just wanted to clarify my position so no one bans me from the server before I get to even play on it.

I would definitely launch with no system but a true classic, player based teleport system. The real goal of the project, from how I understand it, is to be as original of an EQ experience as possible. You can't do that by starting off with a bunch of compromises. The only way to start off with a true classic server is to have all the things in place; both the good and bad. Good, bad, it is all personal opinion anyway. What one person loves, someone out there is sure to hate with a passion.

As a player, some of the original things EQ was famous for around launch time maybe a little tough to adjust back too; at first. But I seem to remember the harshness of the game forced a lot of grouping and because of that, I know that I made lots of good friends. I always thought of old school EQ as a chat-room with a fun game built around it. I know there were times were I might have only killed 2 or 3 mobs, if any, in an hour of play because I was just happily chatting away. Hanging around with and meeting new people was what was fun. The game wasn't bad either.

From a developer's standpoint, I would think that the main goal is to get to as classic as possible. Period. If you can get to the point of being as close to original as possible, any compromises that might have to be made because of class issues or population can then be made. But if the original goal was Vanilla EQ, stick to your guns, take no prisoners, and try to deliver the best damn Classic experience possible.

The teleport system I talked about was a compromise that has no place in original EQ and as such I don't think it should be available as a launch option. I just see it as one of those compromises, that if had to be made, would be a lot better than some easier methods. Nothing more, nothing less. It is not a request; just a silly idea--the lesser of the evils as I saw them in my mind.

The only thing I would hope is that the goal would be more orient towards a few months after the original release of EQ. I shudder to think of some of the things at launch that were broken or not even in the game yet at that time. Most of those types of true "Bugs" I think could be left out with little to no complaints from most people.

When you are new to a community, it is sometimes hard to judge how people will react to certain ideas. Sorry if I seem to be repeating myself (and for my overly long posts).

Conifer

[nilbog]

Sorry guys.. I had to leave town to visit a friend in the hospital. I didn't arrive back until today.. took a while to catch up on all this :P

Here's the deal. My original intent was to create a server as close to the original experience as I could.. and this objective never changed. In the future, I might make a different server, with different goals, and customizations. I tried my best to recreate content based on my mission goal (legit pve classic). In this particular progression, items will be nerfed and unnerfed as they originally were, zones will be locked and unlocked as per the timeline. The timeline was created based on patch dates and research.

If I were to pick and choose customizations based purely on a "time saving" features, it completely changes the game. I sympathize with the soulbinder arguments.. some people say, remove them because they aren't classic. Other people say keep them because if you're somewhere remote, finding a bind might be impossible. In this instance, I can see a compromise because of population differences. That bind might never show up, whereas not having a port.. that's just a convenience factor.

I interpreted some of the posts to mean that having to run everywhere is non-classic. I remember running all the time.. to my destination, while shouting for ports.. which usually didn't happen. This is in a prekunark setting.. so I'm not seeing the problem here.

Traditionally, locating a port was difficult..or damn near impossible. People went to the lengths of leveling up alternate characters just to use for ports. Later, transporation was widely common and a source of income for said porters. If everyone was moving around at their leisure.. certain zones become useless.. and those random chance encounters you might have.. simply won't exist.

I want to reiterate that I appreciate all the feedback given on all the issues. Thats the only way I know how people feel about them :P Ideas mentioned here sound great.. and if needed, those will surely be on the poll options. Almost all decisions have been made by the feedback of beta testers.

But if the original goal was Vanilla EQ, stick to your guns, take no prisoners, and try to deliver the best damn Classic experience possible.

yes. And also I would be doing an injustice to the people on my forums that don't read or post here.. by changing my mission statement to classic eq : convenience edition. The most hardcore classic purists are located there.. and if polled, would greatly outnumber the amount of posted differences here.

Of course, if it works, you're more likely to have close-knit groups and guilds.

Adventurers banding together against common foes in the quest for loot and glory in a fantasy setting? Sure :p

In closing.. I want to say I am not immune to compromise. If the majority of players deem something in need of change.. there's a high probability that we will change it.

Feel free to post any questions or concerns at the forums
http://classicbetatest.guildlaunch.com

[wolfwalkereci]

Originally Posted by sasaluge

Join Date: Aug 2004

older than all of ur accounts i see.. nuff said

Hi retard I think the short bus left you behind again.

[sasaluge]

a witty saying proves nothing
-voltaire

**UPDATE** server still doomed for failure

[nilbog]

Nilbog was the name of the troll city in Troll 2..

Are you attracted to my name or my server, sasaluge?

[Traul]

Originally Posted by sasaluge

a witty saying proves nothing
-voltaire

**UPDATE** server still doomed for failure

I want to call you a retard, but even the most severely autistic kid could figure out how to make a worthwhile post after 5 years.

Sorry about your brain bro

[pfyon]

Don't feed the trolls.