What are you looking for in a server?

[kokey98]

could make zones with raid bosses a non-binding area? i haven't booted my pocket eq in over a year, lol, but seems like a likely option. couldn't tell you anything about the specific settings like that.

[DanCanDo]

Originally Posted by NostalgiaEQ

What are you looking for in a server?

Just ask yourself that same question .......Then do it !
You'll be a lot happier with the results in the end

[NostalgiaEQ]

Lol I didn't want this to turn into a hype fest about my planned server but rather just a discussion with what we all think about eq but I will answer some things here

Originally Posted by gravystain

Even something as simple as increasing spawn time rates can cause solo classes and smaller groups that don't have the best group makeup unable to level in certain camps because they cant keep up with the spawn time. I think the only way to put custom features into a "classic like" server is to put them in 1 at a time and observe. Things dont snowball this way from the get go.

Hmm good point. I multiplied all spawn times by 0.6 so typical mobs were 10 mins and are now 6. I also implemented rested regen that kicks in in 6 mins so that should help make sure that camps can be held down also I added some temporary plat items that boost regen and introduce a plat sink since there won't be a big item economy. That regen should also help people keep up with the spawns. I can always tweak things but I think there was a bit extra wait time in eq to "preserve content" by slowing players down, so I feel like we can speed things up a bit and not have many issues.

Originally Posted by sunbeam

I'd like to add one more thing to this.

Trade skills were never really integrated with EQ like they have been in other games.

But think of the player base and what they have to go through. It's just about guaranteed that you won't have a large player base with a stocked bazaar let alone an EC tunnel.

So any tradeskills, and they are required for a number of quests, have to be done with people manually farming, and in many cases leveling other tradeskills up so they can support the actual one of interest.

Please don't go all classic and get rid of the recipe list that was integrated with the containers. Or god forbid mandate carpal tunnel for all the freaking combines you will have to do because you need to quest the Arx Key, or the Earring of the Solstice. Well the Arx key isn't too bad, but that earring thing requires high levels in a number of skills if you don't have other crafters. And the Coldain Prayer Shawl is pretty tough too.

Don't worry even if I wanted to make tradeskills "classic" I don't have the know how to do someting like that. Plus I don't notice anything wrong with how tradeskills currently work and haven't noticed a difference. I plan on improving the usefulness of some tradeskills especially summoning and foraging and also possibly fishing. Ie adding immediately useful items that would add to the economy.

Originally Posted by kokey98

could make zones with raid bosses a non-binding area? i haven't booted my pocket eq in over a year, lol, but seems like a likely option. couldn't tell you anything about the specific settings like that.

Ya most zones are non binding areas standard so mabye the servers you have been playing in allow bind anywhere which I won't do.

Originally Posted by DanCanDo

Just ask yourself that same question .......Then do it !
You'll be a lot happier with the results in the end

Yes but I can't think of everything! This is why I open source .

[DanCanDo]

Originally Posted by NostalgiaEQ

Yes but I can't think of everything! This is why I open source .

What I was kind of getting at, is when you are sitting around thinking to
yourself, "what kind of server would I really like to play on?".
Then go to work on it. I guess it all depends on your goals for your own
server, if you have any. More or less creating your "own vision".

I personally love this kind of project being around, since many of us agree they
didn't like the direction that sony went with EQ. So now with all the options
here for customization, the possiblities are endless for either rewinding the
game, or fast forwarding it, taking that "other fork in the road".
When trying to come up with an idea, it can be difficult because of the
already existing variety of active servers. Classic, fully custom, raid, pvp,
it's all out there. Myself, I didn't bother putting an effort in to feedback
before I got the server running. I just took my own idea, my own desires,
and ran with it. The feedback definately comes in game and from there
making decisions. But one thing I will never do, is worry about any kind of
competitive "player count", that's not a priority for me.
The server being fun for both me and whatever little players are on it, is
paramount. Hence - I am in my happy place. If I wasn't, the server would
not exist
But just an observation :

Originally Posted by NostalgiaEQ

Lol I didn't want this to turn into a hype fest about my planned server but rather just a discussion with what we all think about eq.

You posted this in a "Server discussion" thread, so maybe a few of thought it was about your server. But just EQ topic ? No.

[ChaosSlayerZ]

Originally Posted by NostalgiaEQ

What do you all think about no corpse runs?

Also what about plat sinks? With the good items bieng no trade what do you think people would like to buy from a shop? Potions?

Corpse runs were painful. They create a situation where if died in a dungeon while fully geared, there is no freaken way you can get there naked, without outside help.
If it was a trivial death outdoor - its also no challenge of getting it back.

I liked early EQ2 system where your gear took durability loss of death and gave you XP debt. Since we can't have those, I would settle for:

-you keep items on death
-you still take XP loss to prevent "no penalty exploring"



Plat sinks - are good when they are smart plat sinks. EQ1 crafting was a tremendous plat sink for very little reward - title of grand smith after putting literally millions of plat into it, because outside of a very limited time scope of early game there was nothing worth crafting that could compete with sold loot.

My idea: Healing potions and Weight Reduction bags cannot be crafted or looted - they vendor sold only.

[Maze_EQ]

What am I looking for in a server?

One that's not ran by me.

Zing.

[DanCanDo]

Originally Posted by ChaosSlayerZ

Corpse runs were painful.

I know that people hated that grind, but did I consider it painful ? No. It was
all part of the fun in a game that was intended that way. Hating dying and
having to run for a corpse, is the same as getting in to a demolition derby
and not wanting any dents in your car (chuckle)
Personally, I always thought of EQ as a grouping game. Maybe the classes
and the balance were out of wack, but generally it was setup so it would
not be painful when toons died, unless one was determined to solo.
Class to summon your corpse and class to rez your corpse.
That was one of the biggest problems in that game. If they would of set
the whole game up so you couldn't solo, then it would of been a matter of
whether there was enough players to find a group.
The only big problem that EQ live had, was the fact that we all paid a monthly
subscription and in that case, nobody wanted to sit around LFG all night
or spend an hour getting their corpse, loot and rez. Time was money.

[ChaosSlayerZ]

Originally Posted by DanCanDo

Class to summon your corpse and class to rez your corpse.
That was one of the biggest problems in that game. If they would of set
the whole game up so you couldn't solo, then it would of been a matter of
whether there was enough players to find a group.
The only big problem that EQ live had, was the fact that we all paid a monthly
subscription and in that case, nobody wanted to sit around LFG all night
or spend an hour getting their corpse, loot and rez. Time was money.

I agree. EQ frame was borrowed heavily from DnD, but in DnD your group is ALWAYS with you at the play table. So: there was no soloing, and your friends were always tried their best to get you rezzed ASAP.

Any MMO that allows any solo roaming has to make accommodations for it. Of course the fact that some of the classes were ultra powerful soloers while others could not touch a low blue con without a group was stupid or 15 min downtime.
Either have all classes more of less on equal footing in regards to solo or have no solo at all.

[NostalgiaEQ]

Originally Posted by ChaosSlayerZ

I agree. EQ frame was borrowed heavily from DnD, but in DnD your group is ALWAYS with you at the play table. So: there was no soloing, and your friends were always tried their best to get you rezzed ASAP.

Dancando, this is the reason I want to discuss things. I didn't play DnD so this insight is particularly valuable. This isn't about me wanting to use the eq engine to make my own game or to worship the released game as god and unchangeable, this is about picking eq back up after launch with the mindset of 1. no expansions 2. tweaking and smoothing out the experience to increase fun and immersion levels as well as cooperation but also making solo possible and a focus on the journey rather than the destination 3. attracting a new generation of players. 4. Non-profit open source mentality. I have never surpassed lvl 27 in eq and I started playing in 1999 as a 13 yo so I have had these memories of classic eq experience brewing in my mind for over half of my life and I feel like I can take up the mantle that was lost to the hands of corporate execs at Sony. It will take me a while to ramp up and acquire the skills I need but I'm hopeful I will be able to produce something exciting.

[ChaosSlayerZ]

Well if you need DnD insights, let me know

I played DnD on and off for about 2 years (I know its nothing compared to people who played it for 20 years), I also designed my own combat/spell system (because I didn't like DnDs) and led a campaign for about a year.

I played EQ1 from 99 to 2004. Early years were probably not the most unproductive, as I knew little, kept changing servers and tried many classes, and during the first year of playing my top char was maybe level 20. But eventually I got into my skull that I had to group to progress, and things started to go better. I was very behind during Classical era - when people were doing Velious raids, I was just getting to lev 45 on my first char, but by 2004 I was in a guild that was doing Vex Thall and trying to take down Ralos Zek (yeah we were behind the top guys who already did Elementals and were doing GoD, but still were in top 10 guilds on the server)

[DanCanDo]

Originally Posted by NostalgiaEQ

focus on the journey rather than the destination 3. attracting a new generation of players.

I never played DnD either, as matter of fact, I never became interested in any
type of game like that until I was introduced to EQ in 2003. I was all FPS before
that.
After I started playing, while many players were focusing on that "destination",
I was having a blast enjoying the journey. But the only problem was the fact
that I jumped on board at a time in EQ when the "solo boxing" player was
becoming more popular. The solid raiding guilds would not even let you in unless
you were x-level with x-aa's
Progessing was difficult, so while you were busy trying to improve your toon
enough, the rest got too far ahead. So when you're ready to do PoTime, the
raid guilds have no interest. By the time I got my war to 65, there was 2
more expansions brought out.
But right now, something that is even more common on these servers, is that
solo boxer focusing on the destination.
I have a few players that are actually taking their time but nobody grouping
yet. opportunities were there, but no interest. Everyone doing their own
thing.

[NostalgiaEQ]

Hmm good observations. That "state of the game" 2003 eq with always playing catch up sounds like hell. I'm glad I was saved from experiencing that. Well I kind of did in a mobile MMO. That is exactly the opposite of what I want to achieve, the size of my release game will never change. Mabye new parallel content zones will be added if population exceeds like 3000 lol. But ya as far as the solo mentality, it is really hard to avoid that. Unless you only want to log in with your friends and never on your own, everyone is going to end up different levels. This is how the mmo differs from DnD. The way the mmo gets around this is large amounts of players so there are always other people your level even if they aren't your original friends. This is obvious but I think it is valuable to think of it like that.

If there is one thing to learn from P99 it is the key to success is advertising, advertising, advertising. The amount of youtube videos and articles with "Project 1999" in the title are astounding.

Another way around this is to scrap levels entirely or make them much less consequential so everyone can play with everyone. Solo friendly leveling and focusing on endgame is another way to achieve this so everyone plays together once they reach endgame. The original game that inspired mmo's was ultima underworld, the "endgame" was when you finally left the dungeon but then the game was over.

So anyway I don't really know the right way forward but for now I think what EQ did best was the journey so my server will be all about that journey but when I make actual games in the future (from scratch using a commercial engine) I may do things a little differently and make it so a "max level" character is twice as strong as a lvl 1 so they can play together from the beginning and focus more on parallel content rather than vertical progression.

To make a popping EQ server focused on the journey requires a large playerbase and thus requires lots of advertising.

[ChaosSlayerZ]

Journey is the most important part of the game.
I have seen servers that have grind for 50 levels of empty boring content and only have the raids fleshed out. I also seen the servers and let you level up very very fast so you, again, see their awesome raids at 50+.
But to me those levels - are the lost journey.

I don't want to grind or fly trough 50levels of XP because the good game starts at lev 50. I want to start my game, my journey, at level 1. I want to be impressed and immersed from level 1.
If ALL levels are filled with good content, then players will be so involved in exploring it, they wouldn't be in a hurry to level up.

Solo-ability wise, I think there should be solo content for everyone, grouping content near by, and raiding for those who wants it.

[DanCanDo]

Originally Posted by ChaosSlayerZ

Solo-ability wise, I think there should be solo content for everyone, grouping content near by, and raiding for those who wants it.

Exactly Chaos, couldn't agree with you more. I find that feasible for the player
base that's "starting" to become a little more popular, (the solo player) but at
the same time, I believe if any player wants to get to that "end game" boss,
then they have to sacrifice their solo desires and find people to help them go
after the raid mobs, etc.
Features like mercs and bots cater to that solo player. Nobody is forced in to
using them, but those who look for servers with them, probably don't have any
desires to group with other players.

[Darkscis]

Originally Posted by DanCanDo

Exactly Chaos, couldn't agree with you more. I find that feasible for the player
base that's "starting" to become a little more popular, (the solo player) but at
the same time, I believe if any player wants to get to that "end game" boss,
then they have to sacrifice their solo desires and find people to help them go
after the raid mobs, etc.
Features like mercs and bots cater to that solo player. Nobody is forced in to
using them, but those who look for servers with them, probably don't have any
desires to group with other players.

The reason I feel the solo player is starting to become more popular is purely down to the age of Everquest. A lot of us here on EQEMU are here for the nostalgia... it's the game we played as we were growing up/studying. Naturally, with that being 15+ years ago now, we are all starting to reach the low to mid 30's. That means the bulk of us have jobs, houses, families etc that eat into your time. I can almost guarantee that new, young, EQ players will be few and far between - trying to get someone interested in the antique graphics in this day and age would be near impossible.

When you do finally make some time to game, you need to get on and start doing something immediately. You don't have the luxury of sitting around for an hour lfg before putting in a 12 hour stint because you finally got into a good lguk camp. Naturally, that means the requirements we have as players evolve a little more away from what original Everquest was. Those that ARE willing to chance their free time on finding a group need to play on p99 because that's where the rest of the like minded population are. The other servers need to have solo/small group content or people will eventually leave for p99 or other games when they realise they just don't have the time to achieve anything meaningful.

How can you reasonably expect a brand new server to have 30+ player content when you don't have the population that something like p99 has. Even if your player base was an average of 100 people - a full third of those would need to be the correct level, correctly geared, willing to group up and available for X hours. That means you need to start with small group content, something like 4-10 people, but then you get into the realm of what people expect. When your population grows and you try to release large scale raid content, everyone who flocked to your server because "solo/small group" gets annoyed and leaves and your population takes a dive again.

That leaves new servers with the option of either going solo/small group, or allowing boxing - both of which have their flaws and both of which attract vastly different players.