Some thoughts on XP, Drops, etc.

[Angelox]

Some of the things that make Everquest or any game of this type are; fighting NPCs and getting experience, looking for drops (better gear, plat, etc), Seems like most of the game revolves off these two things.
When you start offering free items to summon and increased experience rates, all you do, is greatly shorten the game for yourself and everyone else. Just like when you offer a command to zone anywhere,, or use portals, then the Norrath that was once a vast land-mass, becomes tiny.
Since most servers have the same content, it only takes one server to offer all these "free-bees", and ruin it for all the others. "Why should I go to Joes legit server, when I can go to Speedy's server and have the game-ending in a day?" "Once I finish up the game, why would I go to Joes legit server at all?"
At the end, all the servers who do have players, have mostly a bunch of of "Level 65-in-a-day" players, which really haven't much to do, void raiding and farming.
Reality is, we have no game. It's not because we need a Classic, Live-Like, or Custom server, but because we have taken out key elements that make this game of Everquest. I know many do not want to hear this, but it's the truth, and you all really need to do something about it.
All this work being done by the Devs on the source and work adding content to the database is really just a waste of time, if we can't somehow put a curve on a few things.

[Jonathan5]

If this really bothered people, there would already be a classic server setup with no items, exp, etc given. There is a classic server in the works and there has been previous classic servers that have failed (to my knowledge), so I guess it has bothered some.

[Secrets]

Originally Posted by Angelox

Some of the things that make Everquest or any game of this type are; fighting NPCs and getting experience, looking for drops (better gear, plat, etc), Seems like most of the game revolves off these two things.

Agreed - but many people come to alternatives seeking freedom from what makes EverQuest, EverQuest.

Originally Posted by Angelox

When you start offering free items to summon and increased experience rates, all you do, is greatly shorten the game for yourself and everyone else. Just like when you offer a command to zone anywhere,, or use portals, then the Norrath that was once a vast land-mass, becomes tiny.

Agreed with the zone anywhere part, portals i've always been fond of, but only when you limit it to a certain point (IE: You can zone here, and here, but you must walk from here to here.)

Originally Posted by Angelox

Since most servers have the same content, it only takes one server to offer all these "free-bees", and ruin it for all the others. "Why should I go to Joes legit server, when I can go to Speedy's server and have the game-ending in a day?" "Once I finish up the game, why would I go to Joes legit server at all?"
At the end, all the servers who do have players, have mostly a bunch of of "Level 65-in-a-day" players, which really haven't much to do, void raiding and farming.

Agreed. The problem is we've simplified things so much, that Speedy's server can be done. Even so, Speedy's server will continue to exist in the community , as Bob or Steve can do what they do.

Originally Posted by Angelox

Reality is, we have no game. It's not because we need a Classic, Live-Like

So far up to here good.

Originally Posted by Angelox

or Custom server,

Hmm...

Originally Posted by Angelox

but because we have taken out key elements that make this game of Everquest. I know many do not want to hear this, but it's the truth, and you all really need to do something about it.

Correct. There's a few options here, PEQ goes closed source (not gonna happen), People stop using legit, off the bat servers (also not going to happen, build it and people will {might?} come.)

Originally Posted by Angelox

All this work being done by the Devs on the source and work adding content to the database is really just a waste of time, if we can't somehow put a curve on a few things.

I disagree here; the dev's work is NOT a waste of time. Give a man a shovel and he'll make a sandcastle in a sandbox, but only if that sandcastle is quality will it be appriciated.

The problem is that we're not capturing the livelike feel, that's right. The problem is live is bland; we've been through it all.

If not live, what else will the project be while keeping within the EQ engine?

Custom is that idea. Custom servers that keep the feel of live alive, while not giving everyone things on a silver platter.

However...

When making one of these, you need to not make it TOO hard, or else people will get discouraged and quit. Such is the case with casual gamers with WoW/EQ2. Look how successful they have been.

The way to do it is simple; build something in live's engine, not livelike, completely custom and people will come.

That's just my two cents, though.

[Sakrateri]

As long as this is all beta, which it is from one build to the next it has people will not really want to "grind" from one level to the next, give me a build that works flawlessly and I will be happy to grind those levels out.....

[cavedude]

I have to respectfully disagree on most points. Now, I am using Grand Creation as a example. We have decent numbers, the average on at a time is around 60. To be truthful, for any emulated server (save Mangos or Antrix) those are pretty good numbers. We offer no free items or spells, no zone commands, etc. About the only thing we do offer are your bot vendors on PoK. Since that does cost the player currency, and it gets around the lack of player buffers I don't consider that a real freebie.

The main player type I find on PEQ are the hardcore players. They know the game well, and they enjoy playing it, even if they've done the same thing over and over again. To them, there is still fun and adventure. EQEmu is no longer the static mess it used to be. There are variables and surprises that keep players on their toes, and force them to use proper strategy. The great thing about this from a development standpoint is these players like things exactly the way they were on Live, and they have no problem offering suggestions or reporting bugs to allow us to make that so. I don't think the EQEmu community as a whole realizes how much work we put into making event scripts or raid events as live like as possible. We don't just recreate the mobs and loot. We attempt to recreate the strategy, the whole experience. Perhaps we bump the XP and loot a bit, but that in no way makes the game easy. I'm constantly nerfing things I feel are too easy, I know players that have been trying to get their hands on the same spell for weeks, even months at a time, PEQ currently has 400 player corpses in the world. The player base I mainly deal with loves that stuff!

I don't feel any work done on the source or in the db is a waste of time at all. There is still a long long list of bugs, missing features, balance issues, etc that need to be ironed out. If anything, we can call it for prosperity sake. The main point of the project is to create EverQuest so we will be able to play it forever, long after Sony has pulled the plug. That's also why I am a huge fan of creating a pure classic server. Hell, I'd love to create a server package for each expansion, using the proper client at the time for no other reason but simply to have it. The other reasons I put so much work into PEQ is for personal gain. Some people collect coins, I build Norrath. Lastly, and most importantly for me, I enjoy building the database for the players I mentioned above, those who enjoy playing EverQuest and appreciate the work all the devels put into it.

[Zaknoir]

I have created a few servers for a local group of friends and such. A couple in particular come to mind that want to have the best gear, level 60 and be able to run around and kill all the bosses.
Then what!!!

Everquest is a great game. It beats being led by the nose in games like wow and LoTR. Yes their graphics are better, and have some nice features, but EQ gives you that anticipation of what will the next guy drop or man my gear sucks and am I big enough to handle OOT yet.

Ya have to have the feeling of "working" for it, and when you get it, sit back in your computer easy chair and smile.

My two cents worth.

[CrabClaw]

Originally Posted by cavedude

...The main point of the project is to create EverQuest so we will be able to play it forever, long after Sony has pulled the plug.....

Yes!

Classic is awesome! I feel the main trunk of any emulator though is to get as many of the features hooked up as possible. Then people can use that a base to come up with any flavor they want, fun-server, classic, FFA PvP or whatever. So many people had played this game for so many reasons it's far better to get the as much of the game content working and let people tailor it their own way from there. Even better if the features could be turned on/off in the settings table too. Even Mangos servers are set up with this variety as well.

I love tradeskilling, hunting for those elusive mats and sharing what I make with other players. Don't forget all the neat quests too. I also like having fun with the other things they have in the game and look forward to one day messing around with LDoNs, monster shrouds and missions, earning leadership AAs, the quest tasks and all the other stuff I wanted to try on live but was left behind in the next x-pac release. EQ is a lot like a melting pot of playstyles and a *huge* toybox, but I feel the whole she'bang should be inclusive as a base.

Some hot blooded people love action oriented Zek-PvP, some rugged types like to play classic survival mode, some players are looking for their own 'gated community' to play a live-like game without all the smacktards, ubers and farmers you get on live, some want to create whole new experiences using the game as an artists pallet, and some like to kick back and explore places you could never visit without 36-72 peons along.

((I know, in my many, many years of being a part of this project I have done all that.))

This is my Mitt Romney response, but I feel more people are attracted to a project the more inclusive the setup is. So yes, I feel a main trunk live-like database should be maintained along with a classic one as well (Angel's DB does this very well. BTW , but I try to maintain both). As for the drops, XPs, and 'game settings' stuff, I think they are a more personal preference.

[Ueguvil]

I also disagree.

MMOs are all about accomplishment. If a server lets players summon items and #level, then in reality there is no difference between an uber geared lvl 65 and a lvl 1 with cloth armor on that server. It's when it takes some time to get there, like on PEQ, that it becomes meaningful.

Yes players might log on to Joe's semi-legit server, but once they realize that from the start there is absolutely nothing they can do on there to advance their characters from the others, they'll leave. Hopefully instead of just outright quitting Eqemu they'll find their way to a legit server.

[John Adams]

I am so sick of hearing the tag "Classic" I am about to puke on my shirt. Seriously. This is getting really, really tiresome to read in every f'n post, guys. This emulator is written in such a way that you, the admin, can do any stinking thing you want with it -- including create your own worlds/zones from the ground up!! Who else offers that? Talk to me about unique experiences? How "EQ" is it to log into a new server who's admin just spent 6+ mos in OpenZone creating an entirely new experience? Most of the stodgy old farts around here turn their nose up at anything that isn't exactly like it was on Day 1. Screw that. I'm just so tired of hearing about "classic". It's dead. Move on.

Admins -- make your servers soloable. Make your servers single-group raid content. Move things around in a zone. Change the quests. Add custom items. Create an entirely new zone and surprise your population with something other than East Commons (c) SOE 1999-2007 when they zone in.

FFS people. You will NOT play an EQ Classic game like it was when the game was first released. You will NOT run at 1.0 speed from Freeport to Qeynos and think it's awesome. You will NOT think CRs to South Karana are "the shit old sk00l roXxOrz" when you forget you are bound in GFay and no one is around to transport you there. I am truly aghast by the delusions here.

No offense to Angelox, because I do understand fully where his heart is for EQ. But these are the days of the Buried Sea, not Kunark. Get the emulator to Emulate something in the last 5 years of expansions, then worry about whether someone can #summon an item or not and ruin the mystique.

[Sakrateri]

You will NOT run at 1.0 speed from Freeport to Qeynos and think it's awesome. You will NOT think CRs to South Karana are "the shit old sk00l roXxOrz" when you forget you are bound in GFay and no one is around to transport you there.

Errrr.......Umm........thats exactly how I play my OWN toons on my OWN server and it does roXx0rz for me

[John Adams]

I was speaking to the huddles masses, not the occasional sociopath.

~runs~

[Jonathan5]

Originally Posted by John Adams

I am so sick of hearing the tag "Classic" I am about to puke on my shirt. Seriously. This is getting really, really tiresome to read in every f'n post, guys. This emulator is written in such a way that you, the admin, can do any stinking thing you want with it -- including create your own worlds/zones from the ground up!! Who else offers that? Talk to me about unique experiences? How "EQ" is it to log into a new server who's admin just spent 6+ mos in OpenZone creating an entirely new experience? Most of the stodgy old farts around here turn their nose up at anything that isn't exactly like it was on Day 1. Screw that. I'm just so tired of hearing about "classic". It's dead. Move on.

Admins -- make your servers soloable. Make your servers single-group raid content. Move things around in a zone. Change the quests. Add custom items. Create an entirely new zone and surprise your population with something other than East Commons (c) SOE 1999-2007 when they zone in.

FFS people. You will NOT play an EQ Classic game like it was when the game was first released. You will NOT run at 1.0 speed from Freeport to Qeynos and think it's awesome. You will NOT think CRs to South Karana are "the shit old sk00l roXxOrz" when you forget you are bound in GFay and no one is around to transport you there. I am truly aghast by the delusions here.

No offense to Angelox, because I do understand fully where his heart is for EQ. But these are the days of the Buried Sea, not Kunark. Get the emulator to Emulate something in the last 5 years of expansions, then worry about whether someone can #summon an item or not and ruin the mystique.

Whoa there, whoa there.

[Wizzel]

Originally Posted by John Adams

I am so sick of hearing the tag "Classic" I am about to puke on my shirt. Seriously. This is getting really, really tiresome to read in every f'n post, guys. This emulator is written in such a way that you, the admin, can do any stinking thing you want with it -- including create your own worlds/zones from the ground up!! Who else offers that? Talk to me about unique experiences? How "EQ" is it to log into a new server who's admin just spent 6+ mos in OpenZone creating an entirely new experience? Most of the stodgy old farts around here turn their nose up at anything that isn't exactly like it was on Day 1. Screw that. I'm just so tired of hearing about "classic". It's dead. Move on.

Admins -- make your servers soloable. Make your servers single-group raid content. Move things around in a zone. Change the quests. Add custom items. Create an entirely new zone and surprise your population with something other than East Commons (c) SOE 1999-2007 when they zone in.

FFS people. You will NOT play an EQ Classic game like it was when the game was first released. You will NOT run at 1.0 speed from Freeport to Qeynos and think it's awesome. You will NOT think CRs to South Karana are "the shit old sk00l roXxOrz" when you forget you are bound in GFay and no one is around to transport you there. I am truly aghast by the delusions here.

No offense to Angelox, because I do understand fully where his heart is for EQ. But these are the days of the Buried Sea, not Kunark. Get the emulator to Emulate something in the last 5 years of expansions, then worry about whether someone can #summon an item or not and ruin the mystique.

To each his own. If a classic server is not for you, don't play on one. By classic, I mean classic. The game as it was. The game at its beginning was about so much more including strategy. Not only strategy by yourself, but strategy with others. Hrm...my party got killed in the middle of an orc camp by orcs 10 levels higher than us. How will we pull this off? Why don't we have the naked halfling kite them around while we loot our corpses and then help kill them. THAT WAS FUN. In today's game, nevermind that. Simply go into the guild hall and pay money to have your body dragged back. Simply click on a book to be moved across the world. Sorry, but not even World of Warcraft players are that lazy. I respect your views but there are many people who want to want to play the game for what the game was, not for what it is today. And by the way, I NEVER forget where I am bound.

-Wizzel

[Jonathan5]

Originally Posted by Wizzel

To each his own. If a classic server is not for you, don't play on one. By classic, I mean classic. The game as it was. The game at its beginning was about so much more including strategy. Not only strategy by yourself, but strategy with others. Hrm...my party got killed in the middle of an orc camp by orcs 10 levels higher than us. How will we pull this off? Why don't we have the naked halfling kite them around while we loot our corpses and then help kill them. THAT WAS FUN. In today's game, nevermind that. Simply go into the guild hall and pay money to have your body dragged back. Simply click on a book to be moved across the world. Sorry, but not even World of Warcraft players are that lazy. I respect your views but there are many people who want to want to play the game for what the game was, not for what it is today. And by the way, I NEVER forget where I am bound.

-Wizzel

Amen. Not being a fanboy, nor a hater, but I agree.

[Windcatcher]

I haven't read everything on this thread but it's making me concerned about what will happen when people really start creating all new stuff for use with SimpleCilent. People should correct me if I'm mistaken, but IMHO the point there really will be mystique first and foremost. Is this something that needs to be thought through before we go diving into server creation?