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  #1  
Old 05-17-2016, 12:31 AM
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DanCanDo
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Question Server Owners vs. Players

This post is more about people's opinions on the whole connection between Server Owners and Players.
I'm sure everyone who puts the work in to developing their own server has their own reasons in doing so.
But I noticed there is usually 95-100(plus) servers active on that list, so it makes me wonder, is there too
many servers for the amount of players hanging around ? (insert opinion here).

There is some great established servers in this project, which obviously came with some hard work and time.
The active player count, as I noticed, can average 2500-3000 at peak times but as one observes, most of
those players seem already dedicated to the top 20-22 'ish servers. I think it's terrific with a project so huge
and all the work that's been contributed by all the coders, devs, etc., and it's progression over the years is
quite evident.
So the main debate grinding my gears, do we really need more servers ? or do we need more players to help
occupy the load of servers already active in the project?
Would love to hear opinions from both players and server owners.
P.S. (This thread isn't for bashing servers/owners), it's intended more for an intelligent conversation.
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  #2  
Old 05-17-2016, 01:17 AM
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Are there too many servers? Certainly not.

The vast majority of listed servers are (potential) server ops messing around, testing etc. I think the owners are not trying to attract a player base, you will see these servers come up and down and eventually disappear into the abyss. A fair indicator of this is the discrepancy between servers listed and posts from the owner announcing their server for play.

I would like to see more custom servers as that is what I am interested in. Unfortunately the amount of hard work and technical knowledge required to produce something even slightly worth playing is prohibitive for most.
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Old 05-17-2016, 01:32 AM
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Yes, you make a good point Drajor, which is a good example for this question.
If you, or anyone were to create that custom server (something worth playing on),
would there be enough players to accomodate it's intentions ?
I have no idea whether some or many of the existing player base hops from server
to server, or are most dedicated to a particular server and a handful of casuals ?
I guess it's just a matter of a balance between the solid servers and the players.
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Old 05-17-2016, 01:38 AM
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I suspect there are enough players. I think there are plenty of potential players playing forumquest / other games just waiting for the next server to be released. There are a lot of 'hardcore' players on here that will jump on a server when it is released, nolife the content in days or weeks and then go do something else
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Old 05-17-2016, 08:33 AM
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Too many servers? No.

Too many servers doing exactly the same thing with one minor difference? Yes.

I tend to disagree with Drajor on the playerbase. I think it is too small to support the amount of servers we have (actual populated servers) and definitely too small to support the array of servers that try to make it and end up dying due to lack of players.

The issue, and I've mentioned this plenty of times, is server owners are always encouraged to build their vision, stick to their guns, and if the players like it they'll come play. The problem with this is most player's visions revolve around the nostalgia of old EQ, wanting to feel that challenge, social experience, etc but hosts are forced to design their servers around bots, mercs, or solo play in order to even be playable. This ultimately leads to the exact opposite of what the players want.

There's a lot of favoritism between the admins/devs, server hosts, and players, which breeds a bad environment for new ideas. A lot of admins and hosts are not contributing back to the community despite receiving help from others. There's also a lot of brown-nosing for servers that in reality shouldn't exist but because certain people have a vested interest they continue to support those servers despite their toxic nature, terrible leadership, and even consistent unreliability.

I haven't hosted a live server since 2011, and my last private server was shutdown in 2007, so maybe I'm just an old geezer who should move on. Pantheon looks good so far
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  #6  
Old 05-17-2016, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrsschb View Post
but hosts are forced to design their servers around bots, mercs, or solo play in order to even be playable.
Yes, I've read through a lot of posts from server owners and players. I see the
servers starting out with their own plan, but then after discovering the lack of
immediate interest by the players, the admin makes changes, or gives up.

I was reading that older thread from Kingly Krab which asked players to give
opinions on what they are looking for. A few talked about the "old" style of play
and the rest all asked about various custom features desired in a server.
The only problem with the whole thread, is only a very small amount of players
responded to it.

Drajor mentioned custom servers and I tend to think the drifting players that
are not dedicated to any particular server are the ones most looking for some
kind of exciting custom server.
I would imagine it's a lot of time, work and effort, not so much just building a
significant server, but keeping players happy, if thats what a server admin
is willing to do and if there isn't enough time, the players probably get bored
and move on. But I assume (even through this conversation), server owners
can't have their cake and eat it too, compromising their own "visions" to keep
the players happy. It really does end up in a "catch 22" situation for any new
servers starting up.
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  #7  
Old 05-17-2016, 12:33 PM
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Just to add one more thought, in my opinion, whenever an individual visits this site and
views all the opportunity and resources available,becoming interested in starting their
own project, I think the first question they need to ask themselves - "Why do I want to
create a server?" and think about it real hard, being honest with themselves.
For some people it may be all about the excitement. For others, it might be all about that
glory of becoming a GM for all the perks and "virtual" power ingame.
I'm sure the most common reason is an initial taste for a different style and game play
that isn't available on existing servers, so creating one would be smart for them.
As for the solo players who wake up one day thinking about trying to have their own
server, would be more likely aiming at a simple home lan game, since they usually want to
play alone anyways. The only deterrent for them is not knowing how or where to start.
I often wonder, with all the "solid" servers that started out, did that person have any
intentions of actually playing the game once it became public and got running good ?
Or do they spend too much time developing and administrating the server to enjoy it ?
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  #8  
Old 05-17-2016, 05:55 PM
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There could maybe be a hide button all servers with less than 5 players wouldnt show up but than again ive been on elysium,and PvE Blood and Rank both recently with under that number at some hours.

I do think emu is not advertised enough but do we really want anyone who isnt looking for us? I mean if DBG pulls plug on their Time Locked Station CASH Progression servers than maybe there will be an additional 5,000 or more players iirc devs said 12,000 accounts were activated and that caused the need for more servers and now around 6500 or so are still going? anyhow I do think we need more players I have used Reddit,Facebook,and Rerolled to promote eqemu server in the past but havent in a long time.
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  #9  
Old 05-17-2016, 05:58 PM
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To my eye, it's a good thing for there to be a lot of servers. I mean, this is an open source project, after all. More eyes means more bugs found. Also, go look at how many have posted a script, or a snippet of code, or a stack trace, or... All of these things are helpful to one degree or another.

Certainly it can be daunting for a player looking for a place to play that's stable and going to be around a while. This is where playing off the gold/green list comes in handy. Plus, doing a little research will go a long way, and I find that a lot of people stop by my server having done that research.

Having said all that, I can't think of a single person that's ever said a server gave them 100% of what they're looking for. If they want to setup a server with their vision and the little things added in, that's a win for everybody. There are a lot of little things I've done that allowed me to help others out when they needed it. That's where the real benefit comes in. If you had 5 guys running 5 EMU servers, where would the community come from? In my opinion these operators are essential to the continued success of the project as well as the community aspect we all enjoy here on the forums.
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  #10  
Old 05-18-2016, 04:42 PM
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Definately NOctrl, I agree the whole project can be helped greatly with feedback from the
server admins, even if they just run a home lan server. I would imagine there has been a
ton of bugs spotted with the help of players in the past. Even if some come and go and
they were able to input any little thing, would help.
I have to confess though, when I first seen the name of this site and started browsing, I
thought of "EQEmulator" as having a bunch of servers that were not as custom as I soon
found out eventually, there was several customized servers including custom zones, etc.
As I got to learn more about it all, I started loving the fact there is such a variety for
players to choose from.
I had recently done some statistical research, just for the hell of it, observing average
player counts on the top 16 servers (on the list). I know numbers can bounce, but I paid
no attention to current or max counts. I only looked at 4 different styles of servers just
to get an "unofficial" inclination of popularity. I looked at 7 day period, so 'm only taking
it all with a grain of salt. It's rated from the most popular at No. 1 and descending.

1. Older (Legit) Live Content (Mostly GoD and earlier)
2. Servers with Custom Zones/Content
3. PVP (more than standard option)
4. Custom (significantly modified) Content
Also - 9 out of the 16 allowed the use MQ

I had to rely on details posted in the description on the server list as well as
their websites.
I know stats can jump around, but it can give a good perspective for some.
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  #11  
Old 05-18-2016, 06:06 PM
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Not terribly surprising, really. Most people are looking to recapture the old feel of EQ, so the server count reflects that. Also, it's much less of an undertaking (generally) to stand up a stock-ish database than it is to run a custom one.
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  #12  
Old 05-18-2016, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N0ctrnl View Post
it's much less of an undertaking (generally) to stand up a stock-ish database than it is to run a custom one.
Even though I do not to bad piddling with a lot of basics on my home server
here, I wouldn't have a hope in hell of figuring out how to create new custom
zones. Compiling and digging in to the tables, etc., is one thing, but I wouldn't
even know where to start learning how to make a zone, much less be able to
do it. The best I get with graphics is photoshop. (chuckle)
I do like the older EQ more than the crap that sony delivered with all those
expansions. With some of the classic zones they started throwing in the dump,
I wish they would of just added interest to them. I just looked on their server
list lately and noticed they got hardly anything left for servers now, compared
to back in the days.
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  #13  
Old 05-19-2016, 08:29 AM
daerath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanCanDo View Post
Even though I do not to bad piddling with a lot of basics on my home server
here, I wouldn't have a hope in hell of figuring out how to create new custom
zones. Compiling and digging in to the tables, etc., is one thing, but I wouldn't
even know where to start learning how to make a zone, much less be able to
do it. The best I get with graphics is photoshop. (chuckle)
I do like the older EQ more than the crap that sony delivered with all those
expansions. With some of the classic zones they started throwing in the dump,
I wish they would of just added interest to them. I just looked on their server
list lately and noticed they got hardly anything left for servers now, compared
to back in the days.
You don't actually need to make custom zones from scratch to have "custom zones". There are quite a few zones in the Titanium+ clients that are completely unused because they are from expansions that the emu doesn't currently support. Use them and you reduce the difficulty dramatically. You still have to create monsters and set pathing and such, but it does save you the time and complexities of creating custom zones and models and then distributing them.
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  #14  
Old 05-19-2016, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daerath View Post
You don't actually need to make custom zones from scratch to have "custom zones".
Yes, I was poking around in a few of those unused zones, like tutoriala, etc. No,
it wouldn't be a problem customizing an existing zone, but myself, I'm a lot more
interested in utilizing the older original zones as well, keeping that "classic" play,
but at the same time using a modern client (UF/RoF). I didn't have the rof client
until recently and spent the last two days making the zones/zoning points work
with both UF and RoF2. Of course the old version of Nektulos is history, so the
new one is what it is. I got a lot of the old zone files that my copy of rof didn't
have and some that UF didn't have.
I seem to remember (back in the days), kithicor had "red" skellies spawning at
night. I haven't noticed any, but haven't looked hard either. (chuckle)
I was doing some experimenting creating some in kithicor just for the fun of it.
Thats just the kind of things I would like to go to work on in those older zones.
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  #15  
Old 05-19-2016, 11:36 AM
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Over the past 6-7 months I've been recreating Classic EQ.

Pretty much the way it works is every zone is new, new mobs, drops, quests.

Everyone starts in Halas, basically a barbaric wasteland. Default race is barbarian.

Once people start exploring and unlock races/classes via quests they can then make that race/class.

There's even a system for an explorer that unlocks all races and classes to switch between them freely, and the level is saved. Sortof like final fantasy.

You start out as either 1. Barbarian Warrior. 2. Barbarian Shaman. 3. Barbarian Beastlord. 4. Barbarian Rogue.

Once the class/race is unlocked, it is done server wide. Races are going to be much more difficult to unlock than classes.

Any race can be any class once unlocked.

This is just an example of a tid bit of what is done over on my world.


None of the zone lines are classic, but the feel for the world is definitely a new experience of classic.
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