DikuMUD may be the foundation of the mmo revolution we seek

[MarcusD]

Everyone always asks why EQ was so good and addicting and immersive. Mabye instead of repairing it without having all the tools it was created with, we go back to the source that EQ used. Some of you know this some probably don't but it seems very likely that EQ used DikuMUD source code to write everquest. Mabye the best project we could have is to figure out exactly how EQ was created so we can create our own game just like how 989 created EQ. Maybe that is the element missing. You can't build a better ferrari with scrap ferrari parts. You have to learn how ferrari builds its own cars, then make your own in a similar process.

So lets say EQ used dikumud's source code and then somehow through a gui onto it and blammo EQ was made. Mabye it is simpler than we think to do this the professional way and carry on the true legacy of EQ and do it proud.

It has been proposed by Raph Koster (lead designer of Ultima Online and chief creative officer of EverQuest II) that Diku has resulted in the greatest proliferation of gameworlds due to being the easiest to set up and use.[14][15] He further pointed out that "Diku codebases did eventually popularize many of the major developments in muds",[16] and that the Diku gameplay provided inspiration for numerous MMORPGs, including EverQuest, World of Warcraft and Ultima Online.[17]

[provocating]

You are trolling at this point.

[MarcusD]

It is the only real way forward. I will help adriand to learn about the nuts and bolts of the game but best case scenario reworking the database would get us a product like p99 bugs and all. I think for the same amount of work we could make a new game and engine that is better than eq. There aren't any tools 989 had 19 years ago that we don't have. I don't mind hard work but I would rather save myself 12,000 hours wasted time if possible, and use that time to build something right instead of a hackjob.

[chrsschb]

Originally Posted by MarcusD

It is the only real way forward. I will help adriand to learn about the nuts and bolts of the game but best case scenario reworking the database would get us a product like p99 bugs and all. I think for the same amount of work we could make a new game and engine that is better than eq. There aren't any tools 989 had 19 years ago that we don't have.

I'm not having any problems creating the game I want using the tools and resources already available to me. But hey man, you're more than welcome to recreate the wheel.

[Cilraaz]

Originally Posted by chrsschb

I'm not having any problems creating the game I want using the tools and resources already available to me. But hey man, you're more than welcome to recreate the wheel.

Gonna be tough to reinvent the wheel without any coding or database knowledge, though.

[chrsschb]

Originally Posted by Cilraaz

Gonna be tough to reinvent the wheel without any coding or database knowledge, though.

[MarcusD]

Originally Posted by Cilraaz

Gonna be tough to reinvent the wheel without any coding or database knowledge, though.

My quest is to reverse engineer everquest and the deeper back you go the easier it is to learn. Do you suggest I learn coding by looking at eq code or dikumud code? Dikumud is a large step more basic. Its the difference of learning to speak japanese vs trying to learn japanese from encrypted messages.

[MarcusD]

Originally Posted by chrsschb

I'm not having any problems creating the game I want using the tools and resources already available to me. But hey man, you're more than welcome to recreate the wheel.

Thats great but what I am getting at is a bunch of people want a reversion to classic EQ in order to create a clean slate to build on. But it has been evidenced by p99 that it isn't really possible in even 12,000 hours to achieve that clean slate original everquest. But we can achieve a very clean slate, the same slate eq used, by using dikumud.

[MarcusD]

I think a few eq nerds need to get out more. Troll is the only comeback you have.

[MarcusD]

So this is my plan (too much open source info? lol)

My plan is to keep playing eq till max level (currently at level 15 druid on my own server) because I never did complete it, and take notes and analyze everything and my experience. While doing this I will work on classicifying the database with adrian to learn about eq's database.

After that I am going to dikumud and playing/learning/deving that and learn about the source and how to use it. Once I feel confident I know how to administer dikumud (I may have to go back further and learn some C# to do that) I will come back to eq. When I am back I will play every class up to the 20's to get a feel for every class in EQ which I feel they did exceptionally well.

From there, well, I'll build something new.

[Cilraaz]

As others have said, if you want to do anything with the database or server code, you probably want to learn SQL and C++. Advancing your SQL/C++ knowledge via working on the emu is great, but learning the basics should be done separately.

[Shendare]

MarcusD, you seem to have misread a portion of that paragraph.

...the Diku gameplay provided inspiration for numerous MMORPGs, including EverQuest, World of Warcraft and Ultima Online.

EQ was "inspired" by the "gameplay" of Diku MUD. It says absolutely nothing about using any code from them. It was also inspired by WoTMUD, as well as D&D ( the world was developed in a D&D campaign [ http://eq2.zam.com/story.html?story=17392 ] ), fairy tales, film and television, etc.

My understanding, however, is that the EQ codebase was put together from scratch, and the craziness of the client file formats rather tends to agree with that. lol. They built an early graphics engine with DirectX, as was often done at the time before there were companies dedicated to making game engines for others to use.

I remember waaaay back reading something about the Unreal engine of the 90s being utilized in some way, but haven't found anything to corroborate that over the years. Maybe it was another 'inspiration' situation.

While I assume they've moved to relational databases since they talked about it years back, they tended to use a lot of text files on the server side, because it saves them from having to worry about binary file format changes and database schema changes.

But, yeah, no reference to DikuMUD code being used in EverQuest. Its gameplay, and MUD gameplay in general, was an inspiration for the birth of video game RPG gameplay across the board.

[MarcusD]

Interesting about unreal. I will keep that in mind. I don't buy the PR BS. Do you think if they dd use the unreal engine and dikumud code that they would tell anyone? lol that would destroy their entire company. I know how it works. Look at the history of linux and bsd and unix. That will tell you the truth of how things happen in the real world. They take unreal engine slap it on dikumud, jumble to code to hide their sources, then hire on people to make quests lol.

EverQuest controversy[edit]
There was a minor controversy in late 1999 and early 2000 regarding whether the commercial MMORPG EverQuest, developed by Verant Interactive, had derived its code from DikuMUD.[18] It began at the Re:Game gaming conference in 1999, where the Director of Product Development for EverQuest, Bernard Yee, allegedly stated that EverQuest was "based on Dikumud". He did not specify whether he meant the code itself was derived from DikuMUD, or if it just had a similar feeling. Some attendees had understood it to mean the former and reported to that effect on Usenet.[19] After the Diku group requested clarification, Verant issued a sworn statement on March 17, 2000 that EverQuest was not based on DikuMUD source code, and was built from the ground up.[20][21] In response, the DikuMUD team publicly stated that they find no reason whatsoever to believe any of the rumors that EverQuest was derived from DikuMUD code.[22]

[provocating]

Originally Posted by MarcusD

Interesting about unreal. I will keep that in mind. I don't buy the PR BS. Do you think if they dd use the unreal engine and dikumud code that they would tell anyone? lol that would destroy their entire company. I know how it works. Look at the history of linux and bsd and unix. That will tell you the truth of how things happen in the real world. They take unreal engine slap it on dikumud, jumble to code to hide their sources, then hire on people to make quests lol.

If you would dig into the mechanics of Everquest and EqEmu you would understand your thinking is flawed. Dig in, get your feet wet before you jump to conclusions.

[MarcusD]

Originally Posted by provocating

If you would dig into the mechanics of Everquest and EqEmu you would understand your thinking is flawed. Dig in, get your feet wet before you jump to conclusions.

Of course but I need to find the best direction before wasting thousands of hours and I feel very confident I have found that direction. I think what we all fell in love with wasn't eq, but rather dikumud. How about you read about diku's before jumping to conclusions yourself? http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/01/09/what-is-a-diku/

Everquest was created by players of DikuMUDs (specifically Forgotten Realms ones — Sojourn, Toril, Duris), and even had the same wording for many server-generated messages (“it begins to rain,” which was completely superfluous for a 3d game!). It played so similarly to its inspirations that some wondered if it actually was a DikuMUD, with graphics added on.

We fell in love with DQMud