Warning to Server Ops

KingMort · #1 02-05-2009, 03:57 PM

To anyone who has to rely on donations in order to pay for their server rentals... I wanted to warn you about this person..

warriorairmen2008@live.com

Joel Ramos

If you EVER receive any donations from this person, expect him to later reverse the charges...

Here is the crazy part..

He disputed donations on my server, and I won all 4 cases... Then 2 months later instead of going back through paypal he did a bank reversal.. and I lost the cases , even though I had already WON them... (Double Jeopardy)

If this person sends you any amount of money I strongly suggest you report him to Paypal and return the funds PROMPTLY... I found this guys phone number after some research and called it, the answering machine is in spanish.. And I know the person who donated spoke perfect English.. That doesn't mean anything exactly but it seems fishy, possibly a case of stolen identity..

King
raidaddicts.org

Yeormom · #2 02-05-2009, 04:23 PM

So you are fighting over "donation" charge backs? That's a new one.

brumven · #3 02-05-2009, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeormom

So you are fighting over "donation" charge backs? That's a new one.

I get the concept of where your coming from. But think of it like this....

If you donate to a charity like say Goodwill, you cant call your bank and say "well, I didnt mean it, please reverse the charges".

Its simple really, donations are gifts. We all know that. But if the gift is given in good faith and spent for its intended purpose, then its relevant to say, look, this guy is a potential threat to your server moneys, so beware.

Thats all. Not trying to stand up for anyone or start trouble. Just my 2cp.

MNWatchdog · #4 02-06-2009, 03:42 PM

How much was the donation? Must have been huge to go through the hassle you both went through.

So, how much was it?

ChaosSlayer · #5 02-06-2009, 03:57 PM

basicly if person is an ass, he can donate and then immiditaly claim a charge back on fact that this was unautorized transaction - even if it was just $5 - as a bank account holder ANY chargeback goes onto your company record and towards your reputation. So if you can avoid chargeback you knwo other side going to win anyway - better give up the money ahead of the time

Yeormom · #6 02-06-2009, 05:42 PM

Allowing anyone to transfer directly in to your back account as a donation basis is a big mistake in the first place. If you are taking donations only through PayPal, that is the end of the line for you and disputes do not have an affect with your bank account. Majority of reversals (fraud or otherwise) on PayPal are account theft, which covers 90% of all disputes on PayPal accounts.

Since it is apparent not everyone here is Internet transaction savvy, the solution is to mail, with delivery confirmation, and item of thanks for the donation. If the person disputes the charge at that point, he must return the item before your account is affected. If it is simple account theft, PayPal insures the transaction for you and neither parties lose money.

If that sounds like too much for you, then simply don't spend every dime you receive and expect some loss and move on with your life. Ideally, you aren't operating month to month anyway. Remember: It's a donation, not a subscription.

KingMort · #7 02-06-2009, 06:16 PM

Yeah our paypal is Premium has received player donations over the last 5 years steadily... There have been several cases where people have reversed charges and all of these cases LOST ...

If you read my post <-------- You will see that they did in fact lose.. then went around it a 2nd way via their bank... Just like Brumven says when taking any donations you must be very careful...

As I said before , I strongly suggest that any server op renting a server like us.. Should in fact make sure the said donations are from a secure paypal member and or send them a thank you via Certified Mail...

That way you can protect yourself legally .. I'm always free to answer any questions about this , have actually gone through this more than 30 times in 5 years of running my server... And never 1 case has come back as your typical "Double Jeopardy" .. If you have some physical proof of them making any donation then by all means send it in...

I apologize if I am being blunt about this warning, I'm somewhat of a hard core person... And also I apologize to the Eqemu community for acting so cocky in the past... I don't mean to be that way , I am just confident in my work and very much want to help the community...

King

Richardo · #8 02-06-2009, 06:19 PM

If I took donations, I'd only take cash or a money order. You can't trust paypal because it takes nearly a year for people to go beyond the point of disputing the issue. It's certainly rediculous... Paypal is widely known for it's inability to tell the difference between Social Engineering and a concerned customer. You can pretty much dispute any case and get your money back at any time.

ChaosSlayer · #9 02-06-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardo

If I took donations, I'd only take cash or a money order. You can't trust paypal because it takes nearly a year for people to go beyond the point of disputing the issue. It's certainly rediculous... Paypal is widely known for it's inability to tell the difference between Social Engineering and a concerned customer. You can pretty much dispute any case and get your money back at any time.

yep, Paypal is great when you are the buyer and realy sucks if you are the seller. Paypal has been known to return the money prety much at the customer's whim complitly disregarding whenever there is a valid reason for chargeback at all

Angelox · #10 02-06-2009, 09:53 PM

Well, here the story of why I quit Paypal and Ebay (they are both the same);
I used to sell things on Ebay, and would get paid via PayPal - I had a round 200 of those 'perfect' stars (or whatever they were). I sold an item to someone for around 47.00, and the person paid with a credit card via Pay Pal. About 3 months later , when I was good and broke, My bank account gets canned for 47.00 and I get an email saying that the person who bought the item 3 months ago used a stolen credit card. If I want to dispute I could, just 'click here' and fill out the forms , there's a charge of 20.00 for this service. I figured. Since I'm such a "good noodle" that had many stars, and this was not my fault - I would at least get 27 of my 47 dollars back, if I took their offer.
Needless to say, that was just a troll and I fell for it: WtF was I thinking? I was going to win against the corporate credit card companies? I got their "sorry" letter and then I was out of 67.00! Don't sound like much, but you have to be retired and on a fixed income to understand the economics of all this. I didn't "authorize" them to take the money out, they did as they please with me (I agreed to this when I signed up with them).
Life is a learning trip, here I am, over the hill and going down, still doing stupid shit and learning from my mistakes. At least is wasn't a 200.00 item (I would have starved to death)

ChaosSlayer · #11 02-07-2009, 12:54 AM

one word of advise - if you registring a credit card with PayPal - better have AmeX. - Thats one card Paypal will have one hellova time to pull something off, cuase just like the PayPal, Amex first takes the money back and asks questions later (speaking from personal xp). When you pitch those two against each other- Amex wins

Oh yeah when selling on ebay - only take US POST OFFICE MONEY ORDERS - those basicly same as cash and CANNOT be canceled or reverted - you don't even need to deposit them onto your bank account - you cash them right there on the spot and its a done deal