Classic or era-based server content

[AdrianD]

Originally Posted by provocating

I am pretty sure the Magelo issue has to lie with multiple items dropping off of creatures. Magelo drop rates do not show quantities so if a Crag Spider drops 8 silks, that would be a 800% drop rate on that one drop. I do not think Magelo's website ever shows above 100%

It seems that lootdrop.ids were added along with existing one when this was done. There are several columns in `loottable_entries` and `lootdrop_entries` which control this. <chance, multiplier, mindrop, probability> all of these combined create an environment that when you kill `a_large_rat` you get twelve items.

[provocating]

I do not think you understood what I was saying. Look at...

http://eq.magelo.com/npc/7155

See the spider shows it drops silk 85% of the time? What the emulator would translate that to is dropping 1 silk 85% of the time. I am not sure how the Magelo import routine works but I would think it could possibly get the percentages right on multiples. A Crag spider can possibly drop up to 8 silks. It may be 15% with an 8x multiplier, but it is possible.

[AdrianD]

I've never looked at magelo grabs so perhaps I misunderstood you.

I know what I see in the DB though. A multiplier value was assigned somehow.

As far as crag spiders specifically: they have dropped large numbers of silks since back in PoP days if not earlier, I'm unsure exactly how far back

[AdrianD]

If you have virgin ears, click out of this thread...

...................

A snippet from a convo I had recently regarding this general issue:

I seem to be met on many sides by people unwilling.

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Sounds good. Although, I like the structure of git with a master and branches. For example: Adrian has table x1,y1,z1 in his branch, <soandso> has x2,y2,z2 and these can be combined or chosen separately as a more complete data set to Master xm,ym,zm.

Agreed

Those people should go away. Fucked up to say that to someone in your "community." I've seen some of the comments made in your direction. Fucked up people.

Agreed

My comments: I can't say this enough... Why on earth would someone want to do this more than once?! It's tedious, boring - I'd rather pull my fingernails out than know you are editing the same exact DB entry with virtually the same new data. It's fucking stupid man!

I am not going to spend 5 years of my free time to repeat what someone else has done but is too stubborn or stingy to share, when what they have was shared with them. It contradicts everything about why this EMU started.

I hear you on all that other stuff but this is the bottom line for me. <above >

Egos abound!

[image]

Most people who are already here likely have time invested in their existing projects and will continue to work those. No one is going to drop what they are doing just to start a new project unless they are truly motivated. These tasks are pretty thankless (building databases/handing them out publicly). Plus doing classic everyone wants it done 'RIGHT', what is 'right' you may ask? Hell if I know, but everyone seems to have their own interpretation of each mob, quest, etc and the slightest cosmetic can turn a player off to the server.

As provocating touched on part of the community will scorn you for the work, lack of perfection in every avenue, so unless you have everything done and sparkly for them its a spit in the face. Another group of individuals might just take what you did and start their own server with no credit and put you in the dust (Which I guess is the fear for some servers?).

Even P99 is a 'vague classic equivalent' and probably will be the only 'classical' server with the full extent of changes made. EQClassic went the route for trilogy, then yeahlight dropped the ball and its back to titanium client and they are pretty much reinventing the wheel again. With the Titanium classic it is impossible to have full on classic, features have been ripped out of the client (I miss those message boards) and boats are worked around using the 'beta' boat etc. Any true hope of a trilogy or older client is highly diminished especially with the compatibility issues of operating system/hardware. Simply put in lots of minds 'its more trouble than its worth'.

TLDR: If you want it, you have to do it yourself. Time is invested elsewhere, to pick this up and 'do it right' would take years, P99 isn't going to help you, don't count on anyone helping. What work you get done will be critiqued heavily and social aspect of the community can sometimes be detrimental in the classic area. At this point 'doing it right' is the only way it will probably get recognized and everyone has their own pipe dream of what that 'right' is.

[provocating]

I am "egobound" ? Not hardly.

You wanted to start this project, you started the thread, not me.

That entire PM, was sent you you in confidence. There again I do not send anything in a PM that I would be ashamed of. You are definitely not going about this endeavor of yours in a fashion that would encourage people to help you.

Several PM's you sent me were pretty narcissistic but I will not post these here in a public forum. Good luck on your project, I definitely will not be contributing to it. You are showing your true colors.

And yes you have to do it yourself. As I said before I have been faced with much negativity on my project but I stick to my guns on what I want. I put in countless hours of GM'ing, server maintenance, bug reports. I am not going to stop what I am doing to help you. No one stopped what they were doing to help me. As I said my server comes first above everything else except my day job.

[AdrianD]

Image: I read it.

I'm not concerned about credit. I'm not concerned about having a live server. Having players to play with on a somewhat regular basis would be nice.

I'm not talking about a commitment that isn't already being done or has been done. Backtrack, the only commitment I am talking about is to continue towards the overall goal which seems to be a similar thread.

For example: Participants put the data somewhere. People take and use the data, maybe refine it. Much like how this project works. It's really not complicated or a large commitment beyond what people are doing already.

It's sharing and improving, simple.

Provocating: I was not talking about you and I was not thinking of any single person, specifically. Until you said something, the average onlooker wouldn't know the difference. And what's the big deal on that? I don't give a shit what is posted here if I said it. I've been a silly happy camper here and you know what, I don't talk or act this way. I'm trying to be nice/disarming so the general public will be more willing to help. SMH

[provocating]

Well I am out of this conversation. These topics seem to heat up and I am not interested in drama.

[AdrianD]

I would rather have had you called me an a-hole in private. It would have made a public explanation unnecessary. You're ok in my book. Ahhh, internet communication...

[mgellan]

To me the Mandate of this Project (Lets call it OpenEQ for giggles) is as follows:

"Develop and release EQEMU code, data, and quests that model the Live releases of EQ as accurately as is possible, make those releases freely available, and ensure the Community can implement working servers as easily as possible."

So here's my proposal:

- Create an OpenEQ project on GIT and fork the current EQEMU code, database, and quests into it. Or, implement someone else's code and data thats closer to Milestone 1.
- Create and host development forums and an "OpenClassic" EQEMU server
- Create a Roadmap that will track every major release of EQ starting with March 1999. Each milestone will be a release of the code, and each release will consist of code, database, and quests. So if you want to step through a complete progression, check out each milestone release, compile, load the database and install the quests. Or, hell, with a Linux server we can publish VirtualBox VMs of the complete package and serverops can just load player tables.
- All code changes need to be committed to the repository, and each milestone has a database load associated with it

Since everything is hosted on GIT, and will be freely available, no one person has control since any issues people could just start their own development fork.

So, Milestone 1 would be to build an accurate release of EQ as of March 1999.

FWIW I'm an professional server operations guy (Director level) with a development background, although my C++ is pretty rusty (15 years rusty!) - part of my reason for looking for a project is to re-engage those skills. I'm a pretty good PHP programmer tho. Most of my professional life is project management so I can add that dimension. My own server is currently aimed at modelling Velious but this to me is a more righteous project so I'd be happy to offer up my pretty recent code and database as a starting point and start moving it to Classic.

I offer up the following:

- A hosted instance of EQEMU and database to use as a main test server
- A phpBB based forum where we can interact and work out issues, post bug reports etc.
- My services to do builds of the server and deal with operational issues
- My services as Project Manager
- My services as a developer, content editor, tester

I can have the server available within a day or so. If you want to participate, great, love to have some input. If not, do your own thing. If no one jumps in, then obviously it's not a viable project. However if you jump in you commit to everything being open sourced and freely available.

Happy to adjust the above to meet the needs of the community but to me this is how to proceed. Thanks!

Regards,
Mg

PS Be quick to neither give nor take offense. Seems like we're all interested in the same goals, I'm sure we can be civil.

[Furniture]

Just use the takproject code if you want a classic server. No need to reinvent the wheel. If the server is just for personal use then it is perfect. A non p99 classic server with eqemulator will undoubtedly be vastly inferior to both takproject and p99.

[mgellan]

To me the Mac client is a dealbreaker, and the stated goals of the project are to emulator the Al'Kabor server not provide a progression timeline...

Regards,
Mg

[provocating]

Originally Posted by Furniture

Just use the takproject code if you want a classic server. No need to reinvent the wheel. If the server is just for personal use then it is perfect. A non p99 classic server with eqemulator will undoubtedly be vastly inferior to both takproject and p99.

I would rather be shot in the foot having to use the Trilogy client, or even Titanium for that matter.

[image]

Lol for the hate for older clients, the trilogy client is not compatible with the new netcode anyway, any sort of support for trilogy would require a lot of modification.

Sounds like there are a lot of conflicting interests in this post anyhow I don't see much agreement.

[AdrianD]

I would be considered disingenuous to not show any interest.

Part of being disingenuous would be an unwillingness to compromise, which I am not.

Most here have more experience than I in many things related to this including how to proceed so, I submit to the above proposal.

Please let me know what I can do.

Thanks,

Adrian