The same could be said for just giving people all the available GM commands too ;).

Actually there is a reason for Live exp, and though its in the ball park you explained, its no where close to your meaning.

Live experience levels is to keep the game progressing at a steady pace while developers are able to keep the end of the treadmill (the end game) developing without heavy demand.

If you wish to question that you can feel free to view my real life resume working in LA as a security annalist of Sony Online Entertainment in the EverQuest development division.

So what does Live EXP really mean? It means unlike you said, you get a little bit of pleasure over a longer period vs one big burst all at once, then get bored off your fourth point of contact when you are "end game", max aa's, max exp and the developers cannot keep up.

So honestly it is my opinion that to keep a server interesting, to keep the population there, equalize the experience rates with the the game's development speed. Again strictly opinion, but in empires such as Verant, SoE, EA Games, etc, they have proven this 5 billion times over with each dollar they have profited as that "time" weight.

But besides all of that, our server is trying to preserve the look, feel, and atmosphere of Live EverQuest without the $'s hanging over their heads and with a little more opportunities available to them.

My meaning is right on the money (pun intended ;) ), not just in the ballpark. Just take a look at corporate history.

Giving people GM commands is on Live would be foolhardy for SOE, as it would speed up gameplay and players would have too little to do to stay interested. People would get to the high-end too fast, vastly reducing the length of time that players would pay monthlies. Profits would bottom out and the stockholders would be out for corporate blood. Giving everyone on Live GM commands is nowhere near the same as what I said.

The cold, hard fact is that corporations like SOE exist for profit. There's no better way for them to keep their stockholders at bay than to keep the gameplay slow. The slower it is, the longer people pay the monthlies, period. And monthlies are the name of the game, not the comparable pittance they make from one-time client sales.

While the development team at SOE might be more concerned that SOE corporate about keeping the game interesting, they are not (and never have been since SOE took over) in control of the big picture. The real death of EQ will come when there aren't enough players out there to sustain the corporate appetite. At that point the developers will be put on other projects or leave.

Remember when they did the big server merges? That was not done to make the game more interesting, balanced, or more social. The sole reason was to maximize profit. They were intent on upping the ratio of players to servers. Profit is the reason for SOE's existence. Take away the profit and see how long Sony (the parent corporation) lets SOE keep EQ around. There are no noble causes there.

I didn't say give everyone GM commands on live, I was referring to EMU. Also remember that SoE, OWNS PlayStation, SWG, EQ2, PlanetSide, etc.. You really think they care about the pennies they make on EQ?

Exactly, which doesn't necessarily mean that SoE would loose money, they have over 50 thousand idiots buying electronic cards that took a dev 5 minutes to make at 10 bucks a pop for their new card game, I mean Legends of Norrath.

The point is, and what you were close to, is people leave. That means the game dies, as it looses its value when there aren't "masses" playing. Then you have several hundred people thats left wanting reimbursements, free server moves, etc, which will eventually make SoE LOOSE money. At about now, I'm not even sure that EQ is making SoE money at all for several reasons but the primary one is, well there is about as much players on one SoE EQ server as there is one of our most populated servers. That is pretty sad actually. You have to remember that it takes someone boxing toons and PLing about 1 month or less to get a toon from 1 to 75 now in Live. It takes even less to get him 1K aa's. Again the EXP rate is not so low to keep you there, its to control the development of the game, believe it or not.

Besides that, I'm a very old-school EQ player. I remember the days where boats were your primary means of travel, I remember the days you would get the message in your client that had about 1/10th of the screen viewable "Saving character data." like every 30 seconds. I believe in getting into a game like EQ, taking your time, doing the quests, learning your race/class, and using the game for what it was intended; to QUEST. Now a days, its like the entire damn community, here and on live has gone exp whores. If there is no EXP its not an interesting server. That is not true. For those of us that likes sitting back and having a bit of fun progressing in a game, find that kind of experience rates rather intriguing. I also appreciate it as I have more time to prepare underdeveloped zones =).

And remember, they don't make the game play slow to keep their investors (stock holders), its done so you won't leave while they finish their development of their new expansion (which is where they DO make the money). Keep in mind, to keep a server running smooth you don't want more than about 50 people per zone server. SoE's servers are about the same, their maintenance of those servers are high, and they don't want you playing as much as you think, they just want you to come back tomorrow =). The more you play, the longer you play, the higher their costs the more servers they have to put up to keep load down. SoE wants players that play 1-2 hours per day, every day, not those of you that exp grinds 50% of the day.

Lalolyen, I'm sure you know the EMu community is filled with bitter, jaded, SOE-hating burn-outs who do not care to "grind" exp on an emulator. From what I've learned, players on EMu just want to come to a server, get top level, top gear, and solo top mobs with little or no effort.

Which, in my opinion, means the game is over and we can just quit again.

But I am with you... the game(s) should be more about content, socialization, exploration and a feeling of accomplishment. Some admins have pretty creative thinking, and it gets spoiled by those who look at it like "oh you're just being as difficult as live" without giving it a chance. You don't want those players, anyway. There's 100 other servers to log into and #si/#level yourself to uberdom.

DING! Exactly, if that is their attitude, they need to just rate this topic down and keep browsing, no need for a comment or to log into the server to "make sure" we are live exp by harassing one of our admins about it.

Well this is why I have a wife. Remember that if you don't like what I'm about to say on the EXP issue, gripe at Breea too =P

Addressing the nature of fast exp being more fun. Not true. The harder something is to accomplish (ie the longer it takes to do it) the more sense of accomplishment you gain. Thus and in turn giving yourself a sense of pride about your greater accomplishments, such as reaching level 10 on a server thats 0.0001% exp. Does SoE make more money? Yes they do, but not because they are time syncing you, remember you could stop paying SoE at any time and go play the exp game that is easy, within a few days you reach max gear, max level: WoW, but you don't, they have you hooked on that "pride" part and nothing more.

If money is the reason for the slow experience, how come the free games such as runescape and other open source MMOs out there (yes there is actually quite a few of them and the old MUDs still exist btw) that offers exp rates that crawl compared to EQ Live?

The fact it doesn't. If SOE just wanted you to keep playing on that treadmill, they would keep doing what they do, raising the level cap and making you work another 5 levels for that piece of meat they keep dangling over your head for more pride.

So in short ladies and gentlemen, if you want a server that matches Live Exp, Live Feel, Live Look, then look no further, if you want a server that does 50x exp, start development on a WoW emu so you can still say its "legit and like live".

Just some humble opinions, again mainly some insight my wife gave me =).

Admins please combine this post with my previous one... It took a wee bit too long to edit it =P

Lets talk universal language here right quick to make it easier. Parents of financally privlaged children usually do not just hand over thier trust funds to their children when they are born, or even after, they usually make the child work for it, like making business transactions for the parents at age 17 and eventually then getting the trust fund. SMART parents place that sense of "EARNING" (key word) on the subject to ensure that it is respected, and.... APPRECIATED.

To keep it simple, give one man 500 dollars, make another man earn his 500 dollars and see which one spends their 500 dollars more responsibly.

I'm not really sure how anyone could contest any of that or even refute it, but there it is =P Sure fast exp is your thing, and thats cool, but its not mine, it won't happen on our server and there is absolutely no need in trying to convince me otherwise =P

WoW isn't EQ. Exp doen't need to be *fast* (as in level 60 in two hours), although fastER than Live is good. I don't call people wasting 16 hours a day of their lives in a game accomplishment. If that sense of accomplishment is what you need and want, go out and do something with your life that's real and tangible. Gaming serves no purpose other than diversion. (I know. I'm a jerk for saying that. lol)


Hello? This is *exactly* what Sony has been doing for years, is still doing, and will continue to do until such time as EQ is no longer profitable, or the profits no longer meet their expectations. Expansions, anyone?

It is naive to think that Sony (or any other large for-profit corporation, for that matter) does *anything* without having profit as their goal. Duping customers into thinking that a painfully slow game is some sort of "accomplishment" is merely one means of meeting that goal. Anyone who thinks otherwise really needs to spend time in the upper echelons of corporate life (which I did for decades before I got smart). Hence why I can speak authoritatively about this subject. Live it for as long as I did near the C-level and you'll gain so much understanding that you'll want to projectile puke. Of course, I never complained about the compensation. ;)

Anyway, I said what I had to say so I'm done except for apologizing to Lalolyen, et al, for not making this a new thread. I didn't mean to sound like I was specifically criticizing your server, especially since I haven't played or even logged on to it. I really hope you do well with it. :)

tbh, custom servers ftw, then you dont see the same thing over and over again

lol I never said SoE was non-profit =P However I think the only reason they are keeping their servers alive is for legal reasons. I mean you don't buy a piece of software and cannot use it because they don't provide the service any more =), EULA or no EULA they can be held responsible for that.

Remember that SoE has hotzones and 2x EXP vet aa's/potions. So in a hotzone you get 4x the exp, thats about on target with most of the servers in EMU. Come again now?

Fact is, SoE makes those exp vet aas last for 30 minuites for a reason, not to keep your game play slow but to keep your online time minimal. They don't make hotzones so that if you go to another zone you level slower, they make those hotzones more desireable so they don't have to have to have every zone booted for 200 players that decides to level one to a zone causing nearly every zone to be booted.

Fact is, SoE is minimizing thier costs via these ways. They make the leveling process harder not to keep you playing, (as using those hotzones, potions/vet aas to skip over the tedious leveling) for months on end, but to have the player (YOU) form a sence of pride and accomplishment from those levels and quests you complete so you won't ditch the game even when you have made it to end-game. Again, I could max a character out on live by myself and without pling them in a months time. You pay SoE by the month, you cannot convience me that SoE counts on their slow exp system to keep you playing and paying them money. No way. The endless quests, sense of pride you build yourself, and the relationships you build within the game keeps you paying them, not their slow exp system.

To recap, SoE makes their money by keeping you out of the game, or confining you to certain zones to minimize their expenses while you pay them every month for a fictional character you have a close attachment to =) period.

Nevertheless, I would never be able to take the time to grind out to level 50, 60, 65, etc again. It took me a year just to hit 60. I don't want it to take that long again. I think that might go for most EQ vets who have already gotten to that level, and are just playing to relive the experience.

To sum it up, 60 in 2 days is a no no. But IMO it shouldn't take the full amount of time either.

We already have a player that plays 2 hours approx per day that has hit level 35 on our server using the hotzones we are providing. The hotzones btw are again live like offering 2x exp. When you start on a new server thats setup to be live like, there is a progression sense that you play with, its not about really reliving EQ, but actually reliving the progression, waking the sleeper etc - Progression.

OMG! I was trying to end it but.. Lal, I can't believe that *anyone* actually believes that "stuff". I never insinuated that you think Sony is non-profit. No idea where you got that. You didn't read clearly a word I wrote.

Playing in hot zones is both limiting and boring. You'd never see the rest of the game.

Accomplishment. Right. Anyone who needs a feeling of accomplishment needs to do it real life, not in front of a monitor in a game where nothing exists except ones and zeroes.

Sony doesn't give a rat's behind if a player plays or not as long as they get those monthlies, right. But if they *do* play, keep it slow and painstaking so that people will let themselves be convinced as you have.

Idealism is great, but if you don't temper it with some realism, you're setting yourself up for some rude awakenings.

So I'm guessing your mom and dad didn't make you do chores to earn your allowances? They just gave it to you? No, I doubt it, most parents go through this ritual to seed the respect for that money in the child's head, to teach them it its not easy to get, and must be respected as such. Most of us has prob often heard this as "learning the value of a dollar".

Exp should be the same, period.