Besides, in an indirect way we are working on live compat related issues.

FNW has some things in an experimental version (dev only) that should assist us in work on newer patches.

And, I've been working on x86 virtual machine to be able to process and fingerprint the dispatching routine in the client to try to be able to determine opcodes in newer executables by comparing the function signatures for the handlers of opcodes.

When these two are complete, it should help in being able to follow newer patches more closely but it's not a 100% match (right now I can find about ~60 opcodes automatically). But that does nothing for structures.

Things take time. We're trying to balance stability and new features with being able to chase other patches, but stability is currenly our preference.

If you are too impatient to wait or think you can do better, you are more than welcome to do so. This project is, after all, open source. You have the same tools and code that I do.

Titanium Supported Build
 

I dont know about anyone else, but I am finding it incredibly difficult (and increasingly frustrating) to get hold of an eq client that works with eqemu.

All I want to do is run my own small LAN server for a few friends to play occasionally, but this is an impossibility as I cannot find a client that works with the eqemu server. :mad:

(I unfortunately stopped playing live in december, so my client was patched beyond the november freeze. I have a copy which according to EQVercheck should work with 0.6.0, but never gets past the login screen!)

If there was a version out there that would work with an unpatched installation of titanium, I would go out and buy it in an instant :D . I am sure I would not be the only one.

You guys have done some excellent work here. Chasing Live is a great idea, but I for one just want to have a working emu that I can play locally.

just my 2cp worth.

Titanium pack version
 

I agree with Micro; if there was a version that was compatible with a clean install, I would buy it as well, because I'm getting tired of not being able to find anyone that has a version that will work. All of my friends that still play live have the newest patch, so that won't work. And you can't ask anyone through these forums without violating the agreement, so that's out. I don't care about it being compatible with live as much as just having something that will work with a fresh out of the box install. I just want to setup my own private lan to play it on, because I quit playing live to get away from the idiot players and kill-stealers that seemed to be infesting the live servers more and more often. Just my 2cp worth, so it's probably worth less than that... heh.

I support the option of moving towards compatibility on a clean-install primarily because I lost my prior compatible folder long ago in a disk corruption, my last backup DVD is from June'05, and I happen to own the Titanium set I purchased for a second live account ^.~

Why kill yourself???
 

You'll never reach 100% chasing live. It's like eqemu is a fat kid chasing down an icecream truck with a sadistic driver. Sony's not *trying* to be a sadistic driver, but as long as the vehicle moves, you can't outrun it ad infinitum. Make a stable system based on a snapshot, like Titanium, and I'll donate at least $50.

It's worth it to me to have something that works. I donated in the past and it still doesn't work. FNW, you must focus on a snapshot. Chasing live is just too much.

Here's another thing to consider. When eqemu started, each patch was just so much! Kunark made the world 100% bigger! Velius another 50% bigger! How many expansions are there now?? I quit following eq and eqemu for a while. These are all getting to be incrementally LESS value for the same work. Think of it as the storage issue we focus now. Example, iPods. As iPods increase in size, the value of the storage goes down, and soon, I don't want to pay $500 for 7TB. I'll pay $50 for 200GB. There's only so much media I can enjoy as one person. Soon my time is better spent elsewhere, not watching DVDs on my iPod at work. Do we need the ENTIRE collection, even as each incremental growth is WORTHLESS in the grand scheme of things??? Can't we be satisfied?

You have less developers if I'm not wrong, and you *must* revitalize this project by reaching completion, or it'll fall apart. $20 is piss in the bucket for a reliable world with SO MUCH DATA. Think of how many hours alone or with friends that you can milk from 4 expansions. We need to get a client that is done, get testing done, and finish this project. I've been a member of this project for almost 4 years, and I've been unable to play it probably 3 years worth because of patches, broken features, lost interest, etc. I've seen dev after dev after dev leave, throw their arms up, and quit.

FNW, finish this project off, PLEASE. PM me if you need some money to get sorted out. I just graduated college, got a monster job, and am tired of seeing this project flounder as you all spit, fight, and rip at success. It's time to grab success, build a sturdy system, and send eqemu to pasture, where NEW features, NEW expansions, NEW becomes the mantra. Let's not be fixing. Let's be building.

Additionally,

You can't please everyone. I noticed 60% want to see this happen. I've wanted this since the Platinum series, since before POP, before Velius, even. This should be intuitive, and you shouldn't ask for permission, FNW. You know the answer, and everyone who has been involved for more than two years knows the answer.

This shouldn't be democratic anyway. If you are looking for a solution to please the group, to be considered successful, here are the most basic demands of your public:

1. Everquest, emulated (check)
2. Ability to build a system with control of their world (check)
3. Centralized Loginserver mandatory (check)
4. World content populated (check, could use more, but mostly check)
5. Revitalization of memories relived through gameplay with friends (check)
6. A system that works stably the first time and every time and has support (missing)
7. Documentation (... needs work once system is complete)

Anything else is a desire, a want. The above are 7 identified needs.

What has this community given up in opportunity cost to see this dream?

1. Money - donations (often over $10)
2. Time - time spent in the forums, discussing, testing
3. Risk - risk of losing an EQlive account (granted, small risk)

Let's see... I can't count on hands and feet the times I've seen donations over $10 to see the light at the end of the tunnel, or to make your job easier, to make the above requirements possible.

There's no donatable amount of money that will give us the 6th requirement without using a snapshot. I can't pay for fulltime programmers to fix the bugs, and our collective money (from some teenagers, many 20-somethings, some 30-somethings, and a handful older) just isn't enough! So, the alternative is that we all pay $20 to Sony and its distribution channel for that snapshot. And why not? Homage, to the programmers, to the company that created this program isn't a bad thing. They created the content, the world in which you experienced the original memories. $20 is the cost of two month's membership, no? For unlimited play, I'd pay $20. If anyone sees $20 as more valuable than this, let me know where I can get 7 years of content, programming, innovation, more game than I can handle? The pacman series can still cost $20.

The COMPUTERS THAT RUN THIS, the NETWORK that runs this, all of the capital investments, probably cost LOADS more per person than $20.

This is a steal.

Final positive note: Sony gets paid. They didn't come in and smite us, even though I'm sure enough flexing of the lawyers on retainer would have smote this years ago. Give them a reason to let this happen again in the future, to issue a big release like this again at the end of life for a game. We're giving them a big kiss goodbye, and getting what we've wanted for so long, for a price worth paying.

Think about it, and you'll come to the same conclusion. If you don't, please explain how this is a bad idea.

I agree with a_Guest03 on this. I have been here off and on for 3+ years and always hated chasing after live. In the beginning it was a need but now that we have Titanium that has most of the expansions we should focus on getting that up and running and create a stable server.

I'll donate $50 also for a stable snapshot working with Titanium.

I didn't vote because I'm good with two answers...
-I would buy EQ Titanium if it worked with EQEmu.
-Im happy the way it is, keep fixing bugs.

It would be nice if the emulator could support PoR zones. Not the reworked Oasis and Freeport, just any truly new zones. But not if it would break the emulator.

Anyway, I saw Titanium on sale, so I picked it up just in case.

Titanium Release
 

For those who do not know Titanium is the most complete install released to date from SOE. Once you install the CD's there are no downloads or patches for the game. Until the new expansion release anyway. To have all expansions except the newest in one complete install is like working from a backup that was never updated. There would be more people involved in EQemu since all you need is a titanium install and a emu server to access. I say #ell yes. I am so sick of paying SOE for 3 accounts, just to have them NERF everything on you. I would like to say thanks to all the people involved with the development of the EQemu, please keep plugin away!!!!

Re: Micro and a_Guest03
 

First off, I'm behind you both.

Micro, I too am only looking to run a semi-legit server that will be nicely tucked away behind my firewall with no hope of seeing the light of day, used purely for the enjoyment of myself and my roommates.

a_Guest, you've finished college? Great! If we can convince the (current) devs that focusing just on a snapshot of the game, like the Titanium release, is the most rational thing to do, then I'll pitch in $50 in addition to the cost of the CDs for the devs (and myself, of course). So I won't be able to play on the live servers! I don't think I'll loose any sleep over it.

Devs, please hear the cries of your followers: We want a release that'll work with a CD-released snapshot of the game. 1 Install + 0 patching + x download(s) = running service. That is what we want. The Nov. freeze was a step in the right direction, and no one can (or should) fault you for choosing what was then a convenient stopping point. To modify the fat kid and the icecream truck analogy, some of us ran too far (and patched after the freeze) and others didn't run far enough (stopped patching before the freeze and now find themselves on this side of the cutoff date). A CD-released snapshot will cost us money to get, but it will be a legal solution to the problem because it would be a Sony-blessed distro of the client.

Once the Titanium server is going golden and all is well with the world again, you can (if you so chose to) turn your attentions to the next big compendium release, which will no doubt happen in about *checks his watch, in spite of the fact he isn't wearing one* six months from now, give or take, in line with the release of the next EQ1 expansion.

Jepster
---
<Insert witty remark here>

This *may* have been true when it was first made in the factory, but the very first day it was sold in the stores there was still huge downloads due to SOE patching.

I just wanted to put in my 2 cents again.

I think that there would be a lot more support for EQemu if there was a way to actually get the files. It's a world of difference between going and getting a CD that was distributed in the stores and installing the game and trying to find some location that has the patch files from a relatively arbitrary date. I know a good 20+ people who would happily buy and install Titanium if they knew that they could play on any emulator server after that. I'm sure that there are a number of places out there to get the patch files, but it's not that easy to find them (I've looked, but I'm not going to burn hour upon hour searching) as opposed to going to the store to buy the discs. Also, even if I did find the files, then I'd have to burn it to a DVD so that I could get the files over to my friends. If we could simply use the Titanium CDs, it would be a world of difference, since I'm sure there are thousands and thousands of copies of the CDs out there right now and you can still buy the CDs today. Kind of like the Kunark CDs... I know a good dozen people who still have copies of their Kunark CDs. I'm about 99% sure that I don't know anyone with a compatible set of files for the EQ Emulator.

I honestly think that the relative lack of activity in the community (compared to some other emulator communities like UO or even WoW) is because of the difficulty in acquiring a working client. While a good number of people could care less if there were an easier way to get a working client, I think that there would be a lot more tools available, from quest creation tools and mob creation tools to even possibly zone creation tools for people who want to make their own zones. I wouldn't be suprised if there were some of these tools out there already, but I think that the quality of them would possibly go up with a more active community.

In short, having a 'release' version to use for the client could only help the community. There would be zero downfalls and while there might be some people who would still whine about not being able to get the files, their justification for saying they can't get a widely available distribution would be vanishingly small.

So you are saying that unlike every other disk SOE has released this one works, out of the box without any patching?

I'd have thought that if the disks were broken (like in evolution, or velious or kunark) then it'd be useless for eqemu purposes.

No, he was 100% wrong, it DOES patch.

Never the less it is very complete.

OK, so my stupid question is:

What evidence is there that Titanium can run properly against any version of eqemu ever? i.e. How can one be certain that the client on the disks isnt broken in some very fundamental way that totally precludes it ever being better than x% running with an emulator?

The fact the Devs are going to recreate the EMU from scratch to work with it. (if its decided to go that way)

This is the kind of idea that we used to describe to managers as "couragous", knowing that that would get it cancelled!

Well, considering these guys pulled it off (pretty quickly too, if you ask me), I'd say your managers were pussies.

Let me give you a clue:

A manager's job is to manage risk and to try to keep everyone as happy as possible whilst also keeping the money flowing. A decision that could piss people off entails risk (i.e. either have no new people join the emu or piss off people who don't want to buy titanium who play with emu quite nicely.). As it was the dev came up with a low risk solution (although FNW did post that things could get a bit more CPU bound supporting more patch levels). This solution was not actually what was being proposed at the time this survey was made - am I right in supposing it was this thread that made devs think "Hey we can make eveyone happy here"? Damn cunning approach to solve problem IMHO.

[~RD~ Innapropriate comments edited out. This forum is not the place to make those comparisons. Save that for when you're with your buddies, quoting the key lines from Team America:World Police.]

Ive been following and contributing to this project over the years and i can simplify the argument for the non-technical users.

Sony makes a ton of money and pays MANY programmers/developers to make stuff for everquest.

To expect 2 programmers to be able to reverse engineer and implement not only the communication between client and server stuff but ALSO the new features they add is well fantasy.

Im constantlly amazed how fast these guys took a game that was hemmoraging badly from trying to keep up to something thats pretty amazing if you knew the difficulty on what they are doing.

I'm not here because it's free, I'm here because I don't have to worry about "patch days" and all the other constant fixes, updates/add-on's SOE does. I liked the game when it started out - then Kunark was ok and a few of the others, but then it all just got to be too much too soon, and too overwhelming. I even had posts in the Sony forums begging them for a classic server - that was before i founf this site.
I'm really impressed with all that's been done here - I never thought anyone would get so far advanced with an EQ Emulator. When I first started here, the subject on the emails to my friends about EQEmu was; "The Ultimate Emulator" - I've been into emulators since the old BBS days - and EQEmu is up at the top of my list now.
Needless to say, Titanium was a "blessing" for me, and no one should complain about 20.00 dollars it costs, if they ever played EQ Live for 15.00 a month.

does this mean that eqemu works?
if i got titanium

No it will work for everyone else but you.

In my opinion this is the best thing ever to happen to EqEmu. Walmart here has Titanium for less than $18 - We finally got a Minilogon server up and running - Thank you Fathernitwit

Hi! i really think that you should stay with Titanium and try to make it better and solve the bugs. Anyway, the databases are far behind, so in a way, it's useless for now to try to catch live. Everyone can buy Titanium, so making this version better is the best way to make most people (and me) happy :)

Great work by the way!!

Hmm.
 

I don't understand what the issue is, you guys complained about patching and what not, then when they do release a compatable version you complain about not having a database and all the bugs, EQEMU has never released a DATABASE it's always been the support of the community that has helped with that.
packet collecting is the only realistic way to get a decent database and now it's busted so there will be no more database release's unless PEQ does it or someone else takes on that Monster Project and spends months making it for you guys.if you want a decent database you will have to wait
till the people who do it . can realease another one.
as far as the Server code goes, I think they have done a great job of giving us a decent Server to to play with and if they ever do implement talking items
or get us to live, thats just a HUGE bonus for us and we should be greatfull for what we have now.

Since you quote my message i think you didnt understand what i meant to say. I am really happy with the release of titanium and in no way complaining about about the bugs or the PEQ group doing the database, i know it's a lot of work. I just think that sticking with titanium and trying to make it better is the best way to improve the emu.

But then again, that is my opinion, i respect what everyone said, i'm just giving feedback like asked.

.
 

I don't think people understand that the EMU and the database are 2 different things.

If i write the "PEQ group doing the database" it's because i do understand that the EMU and the database are 2 different things..

..
 

Im glad you understand, after the fact...
PEQ is not the only people releaseing database's they just happen to be the most popular.
they have not relased anything new since Tue Mar 07, 2006.
they say there working on the expansions now but, I have not heard how far
or if they are still doing just that.

For DataBase 0.6.0 DR2, 0.6.0 DR3, 0.6.1, 0.6.2, 0.6.3 and 0.6.4 by Project EQ team
http://www.projecteq.net/getfiles.php∞

For cavedude 0.6.1 DR db :
http://www.savefile.com/filehost/files.php?fid=3351769∞

I agree with the ideas of keeping Titanium as the target client software for devlopment.

Additionally, since multi version support is already in place, perhaps instead of shifting compatability of the EMU to the newest expansion pack that is released, how about adding it to the list of compatable clients. By doing this, every CD pack released after Titanium will be compatable and with every expansion released, the available compatable client software base grows.

Just a brainstorm. Feedback?

While I believe the idea of Multi-Client compatability is the Dev's intentions, I do not think it would be feasable for them to make it compatable with every CD Release after Titanium. The biggest problem I see with this is that it would require the Dev's to go out and purchase each expansion and CD release in order to make the EMU compatable with it. Since they work on this project for free on their own time this does not seems benficial enough to do. Now making it compatable with multiple "patch" versions seems more of the direction they will go.

Client pre 09/13, titanium and last live are very close about features. It was more difficult to manage older client. And that will be a nightmare for server owner to support many different client with differents features. I think actual eqemu purchase the live when devs will have time, but no support older client.

Granted, its been a while since i was on the EqEmu bandwagon, but if, for example, 0.7.1 supports Titanium + next expansion and 0.7.0 supports just Titanium, how hard would it be to have a 0.7.1 server recognize the difference between a clean install of the Titanium client and a clean install of the Titanium + next expansion? If the server could do that, shouldnt it be able to load the appropriate opcode sets and enable/disable features for different clients? I can see a crypto change being a pain in the but to this idea, but since this is a question based on my own lack of knowledge of the finer details, I am kinda just throwing it out there to the Devs to see if its even a GOOD idea :)


Edit:
Oh, and it just hit me: If the devs are trying super hard to keep the emu as current as possible, how are they NOT buying the expansions and keeping it legal? I always thought that a CD set like titanium WAS a specific patch version...

I bought it because I was looking for three of the expansions included... I just thought it would be easier to just buy all of them, boxed, instead of looking online for the two or three expansions I wanted... plus, at the price, I got a lot more than what I hoped for.

I'm assuming Titanium has some other things in it, and is not just a collection of expansions, is it not? I'm asking as this isn't a catch up to live, but it is up to Titanium...

why?
 

why wont it work for everyone else but me? :-?

Won't what work?

The UI can be changed by pressing Alt+W, clicking options, go to the display tab, and then select UIs and select classic(or whatever it's called)UI. I also hate the new one but it's a quick change that can stay permanent on each character you make it on.

I think of it this way....

EQ Titanium is easy to get. 20 bucks for all those expansions isn't a problem for me.

The install discs of EQ Titanium come with expansions far beyond Luclin, which is what we currently have running on our emulators. With the exception of a few POP and LOY zones that people have created here and there.

Should the DEVs stick with Titanium, I think we have enough content to fix and build to last us at least another few years... any expansions or patches that EQ puts into the game we usually don't even like. Let's be honest, at this point the content that Sony is putting into the game isn't very interesting, it's just to sell more games.

I think we should stick with Titanium, I know it's what me and my friends would all like to see. Just getting AAs to work would be nice. Let's stop chasing that latest patch and branch out on our own :)

-Av

You said it, Avaran. Why bother with the hassle of keeping current when the only real benefit is adding expansion content that (1) current Databases aren't even close to, and (2) no one wants to play anyway.

Titanium has 10 expansions on it. Assuming people even want the live content for half of those, I'd say people working on this project have a ton on their plate, and the opportunity to put a ton on the players' plates as well.

And it may be difficult a few years down the line for newcomers to get a copy of the Titanium discs, but it's not like it's easier for them to get copies of non-existent or illegal backpatch data.