Are people Idiots?
 

I banned 6 people just now due to giving out illegal backpatcher info, do people just not see the rules in the global sticky??? it says Forum Rules

and the very first rule is

so are these people fricken idiots?????

To answer your question. Yes.

I'm with Ghost on this. . .

Did you even have to ask? :p

If a server's patcher has any copyrighted files, you can't link to it either!
 

This seems to be where most of the people that break the rules screw up: they link to a server whose patcher distributes copyrighted Sony files.

This, too, falls under the category of "linking to sites that distribute copyrighted files" and is a TOS violation.
If the server distributes ONLY customized zone files, then mentioning it is permissible.
If it distributes any of the EQ executables or SOE zone files, then it is distributing copyrighted files. In that case, you are NOT permitted to link to it, nor mention it as a way to solve client version problems.

Hope that helps for anyone who was unclear on that.

<offtopic>
Someone should add <blink></blink> to the DO NOT PATCH warning again like it used to be. Dunno if it will help, but.. :/
</offtopic>

<ontopic>
Check the sig!
</ontopic>

The yellow text hurts my eyes I can barely read it :-/

Yeah that yellow text is pretty painful to read.

Admins:
Please try to warn offenders in PM (so they have a good chance of seeing it) before banning people.

Sometimse people break the rule but don't know that they are, if we can let them know what they did wrong and why it might help more that just banning.

I would tend to agree normally, but this isn't something where the person can reasonably say "Oh, sorry. I didn't know."

1. There's a big announcement that says "Forum Rules" at the very top of every single page in the forum.
2. The very first rule is:
   Warez Is NOT Allowed
   -This includes the transfer of any copyrighted material, including EQ Files and backpatches. Requesting files, even in a PM, will result in a ban.
3. And then you have the fact that Warez is completely and totally illegal in the first place.

Even assuming that people fail to read the forum rules, they should have enough common sense not to post an illegal request on a public forum.

I say they get what they deserve.

READ THE RULES PEOPLE!

As someone who has a good deal of perspective on this, since I recently (admittedly) broke this rule out of ignorance, I feel qualified to contribute to this conversation. Here is how it went; feel free to just think I'm a newb or say that I deserved it, but remember that you likely have been involved in this project much longer than the newbs (such as myself) have been.

I was tired of all the endless patches, the grind of EQ... I wanted to play a classic server, or just ... something different... but none of the other games did it for me like the original EQ. So, I find this project called EQEmulator that seems VERY shady just because, SURELY it's illegal to emulate Sony's servers and bypass their subscription processes. I search the forums, read the Acceptable Use policy for Sony, and realize that these guys might actually be on to something; but it still seems too good to be true. I find out that I'm out of sync with the most recent working version which means I cannot currently play, which is sad. I'm FULLY aware that I cannot mention or ask for a back-patcher or anything else that I should clearly know is warez.

I post, asking if there is any way to get up and going right now with EQEmu (a somewhat common question) and I was basically told I'd have to wait by most people (though no one mentioned that I could download the version checker, install my unpatched fresh copy off of my cds, run the checker, and then see if there's an older EQEmu version that would run with it). This would have been fine, and the end of everything, but people respond both in the thread, and through pm's, telling me of certain things I could do to play. There was never mentioned a 'back-patcher' by that name, and none of the people seemed worried that their suggestion would be construed as being warez, so I thought "Great!". I see a post by Mattmeck saying no talking about back-patchers or warez, which the rules already clearly stated... but none of those messages I had seen had been denoted as being illegal references to warez or back-patchers... so I figured I had a legal solution. The next person who asked the same sort of question I had asked, I tried to be helpful and mentioned one the 'solutions' that had been mentioned to me. Next thing I know, I'm banned.

I felt it might be helpful to mention the nature, though not the name, of the illegal solutions out there, so that people would understand that just because someone doesn't say "Hey, here's a backpatcher, use it and you can play" doesn't mean that whatever solution they give you is not illegal.

Basically, it may need to be said something like:

If you do not already have an EverQuest installation that has been legally patched by Sony's patcher, up to but not beyond the date (09/13 in this case) of the most recent version that EQEmulator has caught up to, or your own backup copy of such a version, then any means by which you can modify, patch, or overwrite any of your client files in order to be able to play on any EQEmu-based server is in direct violation of the rules against backpatching and warez.

I may be an idiot such that I would need it spelled out like that, but I honestly read the rules, had NO intent of breaking them, and merely did not realize that what I was doing WAS in violation of the rules.

Sorry for the trouble, and hopefully this will clear it up for someone else out there before they get themself in trouble.

Ibix

I am glad nobody sayd that to you, because there is NO version of eqemu that will work with a fresh install.
notice the part?

also http://www.eqemulator.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19952 I flat out told you there.

<<Taken to PMs>>

hmmm, kinda going out on a limb here...

Keep in mind while it's completely against the forum rules to ask for or give out files copyrighted by SoE, it's not against /anything/ to simply look for them. Certainly sifting through search engine results is better than getting banned.

Just sayin'....

I think the admins of this site need a little moderation skills. I mean honestly, what kind of administration bans people without prior notice? Did you ever stop to think that people didn't find the rules and read them?

Your answer to that is no, simply because the rules are there. But did you take into consideration the fact that there is *no* link to the rules *anywhere* on the front page OR the forum home page? You might want to step the user-friendliness up a notch and actually put a visible link to the rules post so that people don't miss it. You said yourself people are idiots, so if that's the case then they won't search for the rules. Unless of course you're just luring the people in so you can ban them just for that reason, in which case you, my friends, are the idiots.

Not to mention, yes warez is illegal, but did you ever stop to think that this entire project is illegal? If you're going to break one law you mightaswell break one more and let them have the files. There's idiocy for you.

My two cents: Get some better administrators, learn how to run your forum, and find someone who has people skills, because you sure as hell don't. Yeah, go ahead and ban me, I could care less about this underfunded, dead-end project.

Wow man... calm down there. Heck, I was one of the ones banned, and I'm not that mad. I will agree with one of your points, and that's just that there aren't any GLARINGLY OBVIOUS links to the rules from the front page or the main forums list. I don't think that usually this is the problem however. I had read the rules, just felt like they were a tad unclear on some points.

But, let's get to the rest of the post... If I understand correctly, this project is in fact not illegal. That was another misunderstanding that I had, but I would expect that you (having been around for nearly 2 years, and having posted 75 times) would know the facts about the legality. From what I've seen/understood, Sony may not LIKE what is being done here, and it may be against some moral and ethical rules some people may carry, but as far as being illegal, don't you think that with how long this project has been around, they would have been served a CDA and had it enforced if what they were doing was actually illegal?

And finally, underfunded? You use that as an insult? As if it's the fault of the people who volunteer their time to work on this project that they don't have some sort of funding? It's the fault of every person who uses this project's output but doesn't go back to the site after enjoying what they've been playing, and make a donation. I have not made a donation yet but will be doing so once things settle down here in the next month or two. I wonder what would happen to this project if every person who plays on an EQEmu server made a donation of 1/2 of the monthly cost to play EQ? It wouldn't probably be a MASSIVE amount, but I bet it would be quite a nice motivation for the developers to put even more of their time and effort into it... blaming under-funding on the people who volunteer their time... amazing.

Ok Here is what I think Jarin.
(I'm talking to you because it seems like your the little childish type "Yeah, go ahead and ban me, I could care less about this underfunded [not-funded], dead-end project[Fixing a ton of bugs and upgrading the quality of the project." )
Sooooo here's is a little help for ya THE ADMINS & DEV'S DON'T HAVE TO HOLD ANYONE'S HAND.They got better things to do like ban people that don't follow the...
Forum Rules <--------------

I say the devs must cater to my every need, if I tell them to do it they better do it!! lawl :P

Come on Doodman made it clear for future reference to warn people before banning them, no reason to discuss it any further.

Yes. Yes we have. In fact, there are quite a few threads on the issue.

And you know what, if this project is illegal that is a totally separate issue and has nothing to do with copyright and warez.

I agree.

Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the laws/rules!

Sharing copyrighted files without consent is breaking the law!
Look at this:
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/8058/laws9cc.jpg
Its not the mods and admins job to hold your hand and warn you.

You have to agree to these trems if you want to post on these forums. Its up to you to find out to follow these rules and if you dont you'll get banned.

Have you ever stoped to think "Hmmm maybe what i am doing is wrong Maybe i need to make sure im not breaking the rules"

I dont think that nost people have ever stoped and thought about what they were about.

honestly???? Have you read the rules?

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/5720/rules7fj.jpg

I understand it 100% look at the #2 post. Can't be any more clear then that.

So you'd rather yell at your users than update your rules so that it clearly states "Do not ask or tell people how to get older versions of the EQ client, including the patched version that works with this server. We consider this to be requesting or distributing warez and it will not be tolerated."?

It seems like there's an easier solution than spending several hours posting about how all the people who ask, what seems to them rather innocuous, questions that they need answers to so that they can use the EQEmulator. Be helpful, state that perhaps there was a misunderstanding on their part (9 out of 10 times it's a misunderstanding, not intentional boneheadedness) and let them know that what they did is against the forum rules.... and explain exactly what you're talking about, not just saying "Hey, what you did is against the rules, don't do it again or we'll ban you" or they'll just sit there going "WTF?!?! I didn't do anything...."

Just a helpful suggestion... for some odd reason I feel like it will be ignored and the admins will spend a 1/2 hour (less time than it would take to implement my suggestion) telling me that I'm an idiot and that what I'm suggesting won't work.

I'm no Admin but I'll tell you why your idea won't work to well. The one thing that i see a lot is this question. "So hey all how can I get this thing running I just patched to Live" OR "Hey everyone why do I get this error 1017?!?". Well here is the reason your idea won't work. They are just to lazy to read the posts that have the answers and or they are color blind and can't see the big red text. The BIG RED example:DO NOT PATCH ON 9/13 OR LATER - 9/13 EQ Patch Breaks 0.6.2 (Which we are freezing on).

The rules are posted in 6 diferent places, in a global sticky too. PEOPLE DONT READ RULES, there is nothing we can do about people who dont read rules.


I had someone come to me and tell me they did not know the rules and asked to be unbenned, I had a long talk with them on MSN explained the rules in detail then unbanned them..... can you guess what there first post after being unbanned asked for?


notice the including EQ Files and backpatches part???? how much clearer do we need to make it??

I've always held that this project is far too easygoing on rulebreakers. If people can't even read the rules, how do you figure they're going to be proper contributors? Contributing takes a certain effort, and if people aren't willing to put in the effort to read the rules then they're certainly not going to put in the effort to make a proper contribution to the community.

Now being a new user myself... I just think a good link to a Common Mistakes or Issues type page would be really helpful to everyone looking to join. You know we're all looking for the quickest solution and that's not going to change so why not just put up a page of information to answer the top 20 questions people come in with.

I came in here reading posts and trying to understand what exactly is going on here and I can see how it's easy to misread or misunderstand a post. Like patching to live for instance... right here in the instructions http://www.eqemulator.net/forums/faq...#faq_playguidehttp://www.eqemulator.net/forums/faq...#faq_playguide it says to update the patcher the normal way and I bet that screws over a lot of people right off the bat. You know what that leads to? ----> "Question: Hey! blah blah back-patcher blah blah blah."

There are still a ton of questions that I have unanswered but now that I've figured out I either have to buy titanium or wait for you guys to catch up.... what's the point? Seriously, putting a Step #1: READ THESE RULES AND FAQ
s BEFORE PROCEEDING might help a bit and put in the commonly asked questions with the appropraite answers.

WOW This is so old I had forgoten about it, way to resurect the past!

I got a question that's been nagging me for a while now....Now mind you Im not supporting anyone doing anything against the rules and Im not trying to impose upon them my self, but how is it considered warez or distrubuting copywrited files illigealy when SOE them selves supplied them for free at one time? Doesnt the fact that SOE gave them out for free kinda negate the illigeality of asking for previous files?

We don't make a new discusses on legality, we make many here i think !
Soe have right for distribute his files (of course), you don't have right for distribute soe files (except with his agreement). I think it was clear :)

Ok lts say

SOE = me

File = my car


I have the right to let people use my car, hell I have the right to give my car away.

I like SOE let certain people use my car, owever that does NOT give those people the right to let others use it.

SOE is NOT giving anything away, there letting people USE them, there keeping full disto rights.

People who ask this question didm not read all the stuff you were sopose to read before you clicked "I agree" before downloading or playing.

I was curious where these went... Because I havent seen this warning for quite a while... I know titanium is the way to go now, however, do we have a working versions to patch date(s)? That would be nice.

I know that pre-5/11/2005 works for 6.1DR1, because thats what im currently running. However im looking at updating my database, and looking through its not possible with the version im running. However I did patch EQ before May 15thish(I think its sometime in mid-April), as well as a couple other clients I have from my laptop patched a while back, etc...

Anyway, im rambling. The entire point of my post, was to ask if you could get the 0.7 EQLive compatible version.

OR, are you saying that only titanium is supported with 0.7.0?

Thank you.

the 9/13/05 patch works with 7.0 and the fresh Titanium install.

Wow i didnt realise it was that long ago. I will have to check.

Thank you very much sir. Possible odd request but might it be positive result to add to the 'donotpatch past (date) for 0.7.0)' above?

Thanks again. Im just starting to get back into this again. So hopefully some more goodness will come, and ill be able to build some stuff to help out. :)