Community vote
 

I have given this some thought, and others have provided feedback.

I am putting this to a community vote.

I am looking at starting a new user group to put people in who help the community by submitting (quests, code, DB work, anything that helps) or who are a help in the community while at the same time not causing issues.
There will be one person to make decision on who gets in the user group…. Me
There are no rules to get in, there are no rules to be kicked out, I make the judgment call, there will be no posting one thing then getting in, and there will be no being kicked out because someone got pissy over something stupid.

Nobody here gets paid a penny, and none of us have the time to monitor every single little issue, so there is no fair way to make everyone happy, either this passes a vote and goes into effect, then people who don’t like it can just STFU because the community wanted it. If it don’t pass then there will be no user recognition because we don’t got the time.

I thought what I had set up was working fine. Everything I do, involves a lot of time thought, and work - more than all of you because I'm a slow thinker and a slow typer ( I hardly know how to type).
A lot of things I did here in the database and in these forums, no one never even thought to do before. I risked the criticism, and went ahead an did them anyway. This resulted in people working together outside the silent "Dev" group and created vast improvements to the Eqemu database, forums, and source.
I don't want to be part of any remnant "EqEmu" team anymore and removed myself from the admins. The star removals frustrate me too much, I know a lot of you people worked hard and liked your "stars", so I'm gone with you all - the only ones who protested, where the jealous ones who did no public work, or just worked on their "custom" servers.
What's next will ensure I remain "booted" from here, and I don't really care anymore;
EqEmu means Everquest Emulator - The goal here is to emulate the Everquest Emulator and this should be the priority. All the "Custom" servers custom work, should not even be permitted.
Like I suggested before, The most that could be done is re vamp the login server , to where it's separated to true supervised/ legit, Everquest-emulated servers- then provide for custom servers , and maybe another for the "free-for-all" servers. The Forums should have nothing to do with customization of EqEmu. I know this will be impossible, because in reality, these forums and the Login server are in control by the "free for all" and custom server owners, who believe this is not to their best interest.
I tried everything here, when I joined EqEmu forums over a year ago, I right-away wanted people posting fixes and better quality of the emulator. No one was doing anything, EqEmu was dead at the time. I started posting every little crappy assed fix I had to anything, in hopes others would follow sample. Eventually, it evolved into the "star" ranks, in which things were starting to look good tell today (lots of very nice fixes came from all you "star" people).
But, like they say, "All good things must come to an end".

WTF is this Angelox???? You told me to do take away the user groups because it was falling apart and people had been bitching since day one and nobody got the point of it!

Now your trying to make me look the ass......

I am tired of the crap from the community, I am tired of the backstabbing from the people who are sopose to be running and helping run stuff.

I am done, let someone else deal with the crap.

Angelox, your obsession with "LIVE" always puzzled me, but the statement above just killes me.

Custom servers is the PRIMARY thing driving this comunity, simply compare number of people who wants to be JUST LIKE LIVE, compared to those who want to be custom.

Honestly, if I want to have "live" I will pay $15 to SOE and have 10x times the content and near perfect stability that Emulator can posibly provide trying to mimic it.

The only reason me (and a many many others) here is to be custom, and to make a custom BETTER everquest that soe could posibly ever make.


PS. I am curious... excatly who is in charge now? =)

PPS. Mattmeck - in my personal opinion you were a very capable admin. Anytime you decide to come back - you got my support =P

Yeah... I've been sitting around in the shadows not involved with the forums but still active.. but yeahh.. I quit. Good luck Angelox...

Oh my...

Dax

Daxum you turd. rofl...

Don't go! I loved my pink title!
People were bound to bitch about the system. This is the first i've heard of it though so it couldn't have been too bad. I think they should just be ignored. The benefits outweighed the cost by far.

To quote myself from another post

Im saddened!
 

Aw..Sorry to see you go. As long as Ive been here you have been a straight shooter. Everything you have done has been for the good and not the bad.
I never once believed you overstepped your authority. In fact you have went out of your way to be a good moderator.

This community has just lost a fine human being!!!

Hopefully everyone keeps off the forums for the weekend, blows off a little steam, and comes back feeling better. I really hate the idea of a few jackasses ruining a great idea. Angelox and Mattmeck have done some extremely great things lately, by cleaning up the forums and taking charge.

To me, it's never been an issue of whether the 'old EQEmu team' (FNW, Doodman, etc.) was around and active, or anything. The forums have been in good hands with Matt, and more recently with Angelox stepping up to help out. None of the past drama matters, because things have really been looking good here lately.

I say bring back the titles, bring back our great admins, and to hell with anyone who gets in the way. Matt, Angelox; you guys do what you like, but know that you'll be missed if you're indeed taking off for greener pastures and more appreciative flocks.

Wow...

After years of EQlive, I have grown hardened to almost all drama. It is bound to happen. It is amazing how 1 thing that seems so minor can snowball into an incident like this. I realize that there are probably things that have built up over time, but I truly hope when everyone calms down that things can be straightened out.

The entire community owes both mattmeck and Angelox a great deal of gratitude for everything they have provided for the community over the years. Heck, I don't know what will happen without the mattmeck filter in place to keep out spammers and keep the forums in line. And Angelox trying to get everquest running the way it should be. Both of those guys have answered enough questions and helped enough people to make most people's heads spin.

Personally, if you 2 really are leaving the community for good, I really wish it had been on better terms and for better reasons. You both deserve to leave honorably and by your own will. IMO, leaving this way defies everything you 2 have worked so hard to build and protect. Wouldn't you rather leave the forums knowing that they are still in good hands? Does the entire community really deserve to suffer? I am sure some people do, but there are also MANY great and helpful people here. Many have put endless hours into the emulator and I hope many will continue this effort.

I am sorry if there were some individuals that were causing conflicts and being demanding. They don't speak for all of us. As with anything that involves people, there will be different ideas and there will also be some people who have malicious intent or who are just plain immature. I am sure those people can be hard to ignore all of the time. Unfortunately the role as moderator or any role in this community that involves volunteer work to be done during people's free-time is a thankless role. I try to make every effort to make those people know that I appreciate them.

If I was good at remembering names, I would make a list right now of the people here who I think deserve my thanks directly. But, since I am horrible with names, I just want to say that I greatly appreciate all people who have made an effort to better this community. Some have done so more than others, but they all deserve thanks. So...

THANKS!

well ive been quiet for a long time, personally nothing against Matt but I think that the devs should be the ones to take care of the forums and answer questions, as they are the ones who actually do know whats going on with the emu better then anyone.

Everyone was so worried about splintering the emu but in essance that is what occured anyway, we have a forum community and then we have a dev community, one doesnt know what the other is doing and vice versa.

I think the titles were a good idea, I think that anyone who submitted anything that was worthwhile should have gotten one.

Hopefully the dev team will step up to the plate here and get back to the community they work hard on, if not then i hope others step forward to fill the void.

one emu should mean one community imho. and I think the dev team needs to be more active, who knows the "forum" admins leaving might endup being a blessing in disguise, because the devs might actually come back to the commmunity

We should wait a few days and let people blow off steam.
- I actually liked the idea of the stars for recognition of work, and
would reinstate it - but have to see what happens in a few days.

GeorgeS

I agree to a point but i think no matter what happens the devs need to be more active again and the community more united as a whole, thats how things used to be, and to be honest i have no idea why the dev team decided to go awol from the community but i think they need to come back no matter what happens.

Ive been here for two years now Ive seen alot of things go on that I dont agree with. Ive also seen the forum admins get more and more seemingly angry with the world, and people get banned for the slightest disagreement with them. Ive also seen alot of good coders work go un-noticed or more importantly their work blown off while others get recognition due to them being part of the "in crowd"

On the other hand ive seen the community survive exodus' like this before and come out stronger in the end. So its anyones guess what will happen but i think bare minimum the admins need to take a step back and cool down all around maybe take a vacation or something, cause there seems to be alot of deep seated anger floating around for one reason or another and that in and of itself is bad for the community

Now im not saying everyone and their brother deserves a title or what not but even still a simple "thanks for the hard work you put in" goes a long way ya know?

Dev, FNW and Rog pocketed $$!

well if thats true that just aint even right

Well, it's what I am told. They've received quite a nice sum of donations that got pocketed. While they're sitting there not doing a thing, Mattmeck didn't get a cent while he's busted his ass for years on this forum. Whatever though, who cares right? It's just donated money. I mean, taxes get wasted every year by government expenses and no one does anything about it. :p

well if thats waht he was mad about he really shouldnt have taken it out on the rest of the community though it does say alot about why he was so hot tempered at times

Considering anyone in the position to be able to have access to donator money has without a doubt put endless hours into working for the emulator, I personally don't have a problem with this. Any small amount of cash they might be able to pocket would be nothing compared to what the going rate is for a developer position in a real job.

My understanding was that these forums and website were paid for by Rogean, so if he got donations, then as long as the website remains up I don't see why there should be any conflict here.

Last, I don't think it is a good idea to let rumors spread without any real proof. I suggest that everyone ignore that until some proof of any accusations are shown. Even then, I don't think any presumptions should be made until the full picture is seen/heard. The last thing this community needs right now is more drama. Innocent until proven guilty IMO.

I really hate to see people burn bridges and blow things out of proportions. There is always a chance that it will be regretted later. I understand that the admins and devs have worked hard and long to get those titles, and I think they deserve for us all to reserve jumping to any conclusions until there is a good reason.

I'm sure it wasn't the reason.


Also, the donation money is meant to maintain servers and expenses regarding the site. Not to buy a pizza with or in Rogean's case a "Bacon Cheese Burger" from Wendy's.

I have to agree with richardo even the implication that anyone pocketed donations is seriously wrong, this isnt give the devs play money its help the emu i dont see how giving someone pocket cash would be helping the emulator in any way shape or form

I don't see why every time there's a bit of drama people have to start throwing around accusations.

well id be less inclined to believe it if one he wasnt on the eqemu team and two if it was the first time ive heard this but its not its been said many times before so there has to be atleast a grain of truth to it ya know?

And to think, when KLS stops making updates, maybe someone will start rumors about her...

No one deserves that, especially without good hard proof. This is not a good motivator to keep the current devs working, guys!

If you respect all of the work that has been put in by the devs and mods, then please ignore anything to smear their reputation until there is actual reason to believe otherwise. I think we all owe them at least that much...

As long as the login server and these forums stay up, I see no reason to question where donations are going. If there is a little extra to pocket, so what? This is volunteer work, not a job.

Im not saying one way or another let me make that clear, but i will say that generally where there is smoke there is fire and like i said ive been here two years and ive seen the same thing (almost word for word) Said more then once, does that make it true? Certainly not but nor does it automaticly make it false in truth none of us have any way of knowing where the donations go.

I think at minimum this issue needs to be addressed and not swept under the table and ignored out of some misguided albeit noble idea of loyalty of respect for their work.

All that is well and good but if they are indeed taking donation money that is supposed to be used to further the emulator project then that is embeslment(SP?)

and their coding abbility has nothing to do with their integrity.

but enough of this lets just get back to the emulator and not the politics if its true then well they are in the wrong if its not then they arent simple as that

I think the main point that is being overlooked here is that the debate is over an issue that should be a good thing. If there is a surplus of donations, that is GREAT! I would much rather see minor issues with a surplus of donations over an issue with lacking enough donations.

Ideally, the extra cash should be put toward credit to keep the website and login server running. As long as things are paid for and running, who cares what happens to the extra?

There is no easy and clear way to deal with it. Imagine if the extra money was used to be split between the devs and mods... That would be a nightmare. How do you decide who deserves what amount? There is only 1 person responsible for paying the bill every month and as long as that gets paid, it is ok in my books.

If this whole issue is based on say 100$ not getting divided 10 ways, I think that would make this whole conflict pretty pointless. The last thing we need are devs fighting each other over 10$ a month because some think they deserve 15$. Either way, with the amount of work put into this emu, any small amount of cash that could be divided to the whole team would mean everyone is getting paid like $0.05 per hour. I am sure they can all find better ways to make money if that is the intention. Again, this whole project is volunteer based and getting money involved is sure to only lead to issues.

the conflic is basicly stealing money donated for upkeep of the site and emu project and using it for their personal use if you steal petty cash from work you get fired, if you steal money from a non profit organization and use it for personal use you get fired its called misappropriation of funds its also a crime.

noone should get the money for their personal use that money is donated for the emu and the site NOT for the devs or admins personal use THAT is the issue that is at the heart of the matter, and if they ARE doing it IF I reiterate. then they should be banned and kicked off the staff

not to mention if they want to get PAID they need to go get jobs as a dev not take the money from an opensource project that could be used for many other things to better the emu

think about it say you donated 100 or 200 bucks and instead of that money being used for say hosting or upkeep as is stated its for it was taken by a dev for personal use...

in essance thats stealing and wrong i dont care how you slice it.

Im not saying whether its true or not however if it is then it needs to get dealt with either by getting rid of donations all together or getting rid of the people doing the stealing, OR the community needs to just stop donating

i vote that this topic be closed both sides have debated admirably but i dont want anyone to feel offended or for anger to grow any further from these posts

I want to reiterate that i say neither one way or the other on it being true or not only posting hypotheticals as to what should occur if it is true

I think the important thing is to learn whatever lessons are to be learned, pick things up, and move forward. Now that the Scorpious2k server is coming back as titanium, I will be able to test code on it again. This means I am also back, contributing code and trying to help those who need it.

It is not a time to make accusations of real or imagined wrongs. It's a time to regroup. Refocus. Unite as a team.

Let's work together. The emulator belongs to the community. Be proud of what we have done with it, and let's keep working hard to make it better.

Well, if you read the donator's page from the main website, you will find that all of the claims so far about devs "stealing" money from the project is completely pointless.

It clearly states:

You can read the entire page here:

http://www.eqemulator.net/donate.php

That sounds about as clear as it can possibly be. Apparently the cost for hosting is handled from other means, or possibly still in part from donations. Either way, it is made very clear here that donations do NOT go towards bettering the project. Other than hosting, I don't see what else donations could go towards anyway. It isn't like they need to upgrade the server or anything...

It isn't like people are being tricked or mislead into donating on the website. If someone feels a certain dev deserves a little spending cash for their efforts, then they can send them money. I don't see why there should be any sort of problem or debate around this.

I couldn't have said it better myself. /cheers S2k

I agree scorp..

check your pms btw

ummm... empty?

nevermind, got it.

lmao sent it after i posted sorry lol

I agree with you 100%. I also agree with EQEMU Team. :)

Speaking as a ServerOp here:

If people have donated money to the devs for "server maintenance", etc and the servers are still running, then I don't see where the conflict is. The guys that you're calling out have spent hundreds or thousands of hours writing, and maintaining code, not to mention babysitting this community of whiners - I don't think there's any sum of money that we could scrap together that would be adequate compensation for the amount of bullshit that they've endured.

I mean, sure, bitch and moan when $10k gets donated for a server migration, then instead of a migration, the site goes dark and they're never seen again. That's an entirely different issue, but that hasn't happened.

I'm not here to lick anyone's ass, but seriously, think about it as an adult, not a child. How many thousands of dollars are we even talking about here? All these guys are grown men, I seriously doubt anyone bought a house with the donations. Who gives a shit if the community buys them a few pizzas or hookers? Anyone with a half-way decent career / life could easily see thousands in disposable income per month - I doubt the $5 and $10 donations amounted to enough to make a dent in anything. I'm just glad that everything is still working - so what if the donations didn't translate directly into hardware.

Dax