DikuMUD may be the foundation of the mmo revolution we seek
 

Everyone always asks why EQ was so good and addicting and immersive. Mabye instead of repairing it without having all the tools it was created with, we go back to the source that EQ used. Some of you know this some probably don't but it seems very likely that EQ used DikuMUD source code to write everquest. Mabye the best project we could have is to figure out exactly how EQ was created so we can create our own game just like how 989 created EQ. Maybe that is the element missing. You can't build a better ferrari with scrap ferrari parts. You have to learn how ferrari builds its own cars, then make your own in a similar process.

So lets say EQ used dikumud's source code and then somehow through a gui onto it and blammo EQ was made. Mabye it is simpler than we think to do this the professional way and carry on the true legacy of EQ and do it proud.

You are trolling at this point.

It is the only real way forward. I will help adriand to learn about the nuts and bolts of the game but best case scenario reworking the database would get us a product like p99 bugs and all. I think for the same amount of work we could make a new game and engine that is better than eq. There aren't any tools 989 had 19 years ago that we don't have. I don't mind hard work but I would rather save myself 12,000 hours wasted time if possible, and use that time to build something right instead of a hackjob.

I'm not having any problems creating the game I want using the tools and resources already available to me. But hey man, you're more than welcome to recreate the wheel.

Gonna be tough to reinvent the wheel without any coding or database knowledge, though.

My quest is to reverse engineer everquest and the deeper back you go the easier it is to learn. Do you suggest I learn coding by looking at eq code or dikumud code? Dikumud is a large step more basic. Its the difference of learning to speak japanese vs trying to learn japanese from encrypted messages.

Trolling aside, I would suggest you learn code by actually coding.

I am not normally one for meme's, but I will leave this here. Thanks.

http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/...42/755/493.jpg

Thats great but what I am getting at is a bunch of people want a reversion to classic EQ in order to create a clean slate to build on. But it has been evidenced by p99 that it isn't really possible in even 12,000 hours to achieve that clean slate original everquest. But we can achieve a very clean slate, the same slate eq used, by using dikumud.

Lol and troll has made eqemu forums more lively than they have been for years. Scary. :D

I think a few eq nerds need to get out more. Troll is the only comeback you have.

So this is my plan (too much open source info? lol)

My plan is to keep playing eq till max level (currently at level 15 druid on my own server) because I never did complete it, and take notes and analyze everything and my experience. While doing this I will work on classicifying the database with adrian to learn about eq's database.

After that I am going to dikumud and playing/learning/deving that and learn about the source and how to use it. Once I feel confident I know how to administer dikumud (I may have to go back further and learn some C# to do that) I will come back to eq. When I am back I will play every class up to the 20's to get a feel for every class in EQ which I feel they did exceptionally well.

From there, well, I'll build something new.

As others have said, if you want to do anything with the database or server code, you probably want to learn SQL and C++. Advancing your SQL/C++ knowledge via working on the emu is great, but learning the basics should be done separately.

MarcusD, you seem to have misread a portion of that paragraph.

EQ was "inspired" by the "gameplay" of Diku MUD. It says absolutely nothing about using any code from them. It was also inspired by WoTMUD, as well as D&D ( the world was developed in a D&D campaign [ http://eq2.zam.com/story.html?story=17392 ] ), fairy tales, film and television, etc.

My understanding, however, is that the EQ codebase was put together from scratch, and the craziness of the client file formats rather tends to agree with that. lol. They built an early graphics engine with DirectX, as was often done at the time before there were companies dedicated to making game engines for others to use.

I remember waaaay back reading something about the Unreal engine of the 90s being utilized in some way, but haven't found anything to corroborate that over the years. Maybe it was another 'inspiration' situation.

While I assume they've moved to relational databases since they talked about it years back, they tended to use a lot of text files on the server side, because it saves them from having to worry about binary file format changes and database schema changes.

But, yeah, no reference to DikuMUD code being used in EverQuest. Its gameplay, and MUD gameplay in general, was an inspiration for the birth of video game RPG gameplay across the board.

Interesting about unreal. I will keep that in mind. I don't buy the PR BS. Do you think if they dd use the unreal engine and dikumud code that they would tell anyone? lol that would destroy their entire company. I know how it works. Look at the history of linux and bsd and unix. That will tell you the truth of how things happen in the real world. They take unreal engine slap it on dikumud, jumble to code to hide their sources, then hire on people to make quests lol.

That... sounds again like a clear case of EQ being inspired by DikiMUD, and people misreading that 'based on' meant 'somehow got ahold of the source code'.

The 3D graphical nature of the game would likely have made a text MUD codebase transition even harder than building one from scratch, honestly. Height maps, 3D models, terrain, architecture, sound effects, animations for each and every race and gender, different textures for each one, item icons, item model graphics, water/fire animations, spell particle effects... None of those things would have come from a MUD.

Unix and linux aren't at all equivalent to the source code of a game. 989 and its later spin-off Verant Interactive built the game from the ground up. In your own quote, the DikuMUD team even stated they didn't believe 989/VI stole their code.

If you would dig into the mechanics of Everquest and EqEmu you would understand your thinking is flawed. Dig in, get your feet wet before you jump to conclusions.

Of course but I need to find the best direction before wasting thousands of hours and I feel very confident I have found that direction. I think what we all fell in love with wasn't eq, but rather dikumud. How about you read about diku's before jumping to conclusions yourself? http://www.raphkoster.com/2009/01/09/what-is-a-diku/

We fell in love with DQMud

Check this quote out from that articles comments:

I personally think Everquest today is running on foxpro with a standard foxpro backend. Probably still on a single core processor.

I mean when in a sworn statement that it is not based off the DikuMUD code you still think it is?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DikuMU...st_controversy

EverQuest controversy

This Marcus guy is going to get me banned again... so many posts, so little willpower to not shit them up!

lulzd hard.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...erm=idea%20man

I say we take a VW bus and throw some wings on it and -- BLAMMO! -- it's a space shuttle! Hehe.

Hey! Some guy did that with an old impala and a JATO rocket :D


http://darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1995-04.html

@marcusD

http://psychcentral.com/quizzes/autism.htm

Only hours ago in irc...
WB /popcorn

There's 0 references to DikuMUD in early binaries of EQ.

Verant/989 used Sony Computer Entertainment's Tegra3D library for rendering and the UI was done in WinAPI (directdraw).

Ooh, googling for Tegra led to a nice blast from the past:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/games_everquest.html

Holy crap.

I did not inhale...

http://i62.tinypic.com/2ynl69u.jpg

And remember p99 didn't use everquest source code! They just built the code from scratch. Obviously.

Join us, we need someone like you. Check our site out here: https://www.illuminatiofficial.org/

Why did DikuMud drop the charges when SOE made the sworn statement? How would you like to go up against Sony in court? A little volunteer nonprofit footing private investigation bills and litigation bills when sony could easily out lawyer you? There was no hope. They knew there was no way forward to pursue it. Even if they took leaked eq source code sony could just claim it wasn't the real source code.

A smart man once said: "The secret to creativity is learning how to hide your sources".

/10 chars/

So what the hell is the point of all this anyway? If you wanna wrap an engine around DikuMUD, why not just do it? What difference does any of this make?

It seems like you really want to do this, but you have no skillset or knowledge where to even begin. So instead of learning any of that, you're going to come here and spend page after page trying to convince people of something that may or may not have happened 15+ years ago. But then what? You planning to actually help out or just sit back and talk about how much you know and what you're sure of?

It seems at least reasonably clear to me at this point that you're on your own. The sooner you realize that the better off you'll probably be.

It can be quite self-entertaining to leap to the worst possible conclusions and suspect people's intentions, motivations, and ethics to be the worst they could be. It can also feel morally rewarding to root for the underdog against a big, mighty corporation. Go down the conspiracy consideration rabbit hole far enough and one might even feel like one has figured out a secret answer and solution that others simply haven't considered.

One would be wise to keep in mind, however, that it is all an exercise in the imagination. Very little, if any, is likely to be reflected in how situations actually played out. The reality of human experience very rarely organizes itself into good versus evil, and nobody has a working crystal ball to look back and see things play out first-hand.

Verant said EQ was inspired by DikuMUD and other MUDs and role-playing games. One guy said it was 'based on' DikuMUD. That choice of words inspired the imaginations of some to suspect that meant they somehow stole something from DikuMUD in order to accomplish their success.

Such has been deemed to be a faulty interpretation. The lead of the development team for EverQuest made a sworn statement that such was not true, as shown in the above linked image. DikuMUD acknowledged the statement and, one should pay special attention to this part, specifically stated that they do not believe EverQuest stole anything from or infringed on anything related to DikiMUD.

Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20030808...everquest.aspx

They love EverQuest, and they're proud to have been an inspiration. These are friendly interactions of support for one another. All progress and invention is made based on improvements to that which came before. One common related phrase is that of "standing on the shoulders of giants" to reflect that better and better creations are only possible because we have the innovators of the past to support and guide us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standi...ders_of_giants

If you want to know the point of all this read the topic. I am not rooting for an underdog I am showing people that DikuMUD is the part about everquest that we all fell in love with. DikuMUD is the spirit behind everquest. We can use dikumud and slap on a gui to make spiritual successors to everquest. It goes from a dead end nostalgia preserve to path forward to revolutionize the MMO industry. Unlike SONY we can use DikuMUD code legally to write our own MMO's, we just have to give them away for free. Gaining experience from that we could write our own MUD and base MMO's off of that and charge money for them.

Also Circlemud is a dikumud derivative that is probably the most viable with current OS' and programs but I am having trouble compiling it. it requires Microsoft visual c++ which I have in visual studio but not really sure how to make that work I ran it and got 1 successful build which when run is a blank project.

Who is this we? Do you have a mouse in your pocket when you are talking? There is no we. There is you.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/63498614.jpg