Petition to devs against loginserver
 

This is an open petition to the developers/coders of the AGX/EQEmu project to work on and release a workaround so that users of the emu are not forced to use a non-local loginserver to get into a local server.

There has been quite a bit of uproar about this limitation of 0.2.0.

If you agree that you should not be forced to login to another person's server just to login to your own local server, please add a reply to this post. Feel free to add comments as to why you feel this way.

Some popular reasons as to why some folks are upset about this limitation are:

-Some users run the emu on servers which have little or no access to the internet

-Some users are wary of keeping an open gateway to a stranger's network

-It just takes up time

-Some international users are charged on a per connect basis to their ISP and want to avoid said charges as much as possible

-Some users just want to quickly test some database changes and don't want to have to worry about locking their server, or keeping unwanted login queries away

Recent comments from some of the coders lead users to believe that a localhost version of the login server is quite a long ways off. Many of us feel that this should be a priority now that they are forcing the emu users to use a non local loginserver.

Thank you.

not to talk about lessening traffic on emu server.

yah i like to set private server.not too worried about waiting a bit heh but would love to have that.

Hear, hear!

A local login server, or workaround is definately needed.

agree.

hold on to your cheeseburgers
 

I admit I was not wild about going to frags and in fact I didn't ever use the login server in previous versions.

But don't let this one little point stop you from trying out 0.2 -- for those that can -- for the good things that it has in it. I swear it will make you go out and buy SoL if you haven't done so yet.

No one has said that you won't be able to have a private login and chat server, but right now its probably not the top priority for the project team.

Surely this "centralisation" is the complete antithesis of what an emulator is supposed to be about.
I'm certainly not going to be doing any work on my spawn data for a while until a login server is done, I really don't want to have to connect to the Net and create a server every time I want to check out a minor database change.
Although the emulator team have done some absolutely brilliant work recently on adding features like spells to the emulator, I really think that this is a complete mistake. Surely all they need to do is make the login server program available for download?

well.. i cant set my own server at all. router wont allow anyone to connect to my server, incuding myself.

I agree! No central Login server.

Another major point that people are missing is the fact that if (when?) verant/sony go after gotfrags they will get all the IPs of users.

Plus the whole eqemu project has a single point of failure! Take out the login server. No more users using eqEMU. Why should the coders paint a big target on the back of the gotfrags operator.

Full stop end of story.

At least if the coders release a Binary only Local login server then they at least allow the project to live on. Better yet release the source and they dont have to worry (as much *grin*).

I agree! No central Login server.

Another major point that people are missing is the fact that if (when?) verant/sony go after gotfrags they will get all the IPs of users.

Plus the whole eqemu project has a single point of failure! Take out the login server. No more users using eqEMU. Why should the coders paint a big target on the back of the gotfrags operator.

Full stop end of story.

At least if the coders realease a Binary only Local login server then they at least allow the project to live on. Better yet realease the source and they dont have to worry.

I definatly agree. Please, either release a local version of the login server, or release a proper workaround.

Jeesh...baby steps guys...baby steps. If I was the devs, I'd be sorry for even puttin 2.0 out about now. They coulda waited until they had the whole package all put in a bundle 6 months down the road!

Want local? stick with 1.9 till the LS code is far less in its infancy. Personally I would rather not have them take away time from Emu development to work on a local login server at this point.

You can ask the question, "why should I suffer with 1.9 when 2.0 has more ?" and your answer would be that 2.0 wouldn't even be out yet, if it had everything you are wanting, so you'd still be on 1.9 anyways.

While I definately agree there should be an option that allows people to keep their servers private, I cannot agree with what you said, Ulu.

A central server is, in my opinion, a very good idea for the EQEmu community. Using this, an especially good server can be easily accessed by many, and newcomers to the community can easily showcase their creations to others.

Also, as has been discussed many times on the message boards, the Emulator is not illegal. Because of that, Verant cannot "go after" gotfrags.com.

Anyhow, I'm not intending to flame you in any manner - merely arguing my case. =)

-Kortalh

I suggested awhile ago that we release a special "Localhost only" loginserver for testing purposes. Now that we are using the live client I believe we'll get to that soon. Just be patient. :)

...so you are not intending to release a real login server? That kinda sucks, as it means I will never be able to use this emu.

There is no ability to "work around" the login server anymore, blame Verant for requiring eqmain.dll, not us.

I understand where you are coming from I did suggest ages ago (not trying to take credit (numours others were talking about it too)) that is it would be good to have a central login or at least something that would list all the eqEMU servers currently up.

The main reason I am disagreeing with the way that they have done things is that they have not released any way for individuals to run there own login server. I know that that other eq emulator (hackersquest?? cannot remember the name) actually provides server ops with the option of also running their own login server. So it is possible. Not to mention that they already have code in place to do the login server (hence they have one up and running, I am sure verant didnt say to them, hey here is a login server for you guys!).

As to flaming me I dont take your comment that way at all. There was nothing personal in what you said and I actually do agree that it would be good to have a central login server. I just disagree with the fact that they take the option away from the individual and make desicions for all the users of the code.

Lol, BUNGA! DID YOU READ WHAT PYRO SAID? :) He said they were going to get around to doing a localhost only LS soon. Personally I would like to see it more than localhost as I run EQ on my main box and the server on my fileserver, but that's just me being a whiny little bitch. Thanks to Pyro and the rest for making a kickass opensource product that causes so many people to argue so passionately about it. You guys have something special going here and you are doing an amazing job. We are all just being very impatient. Borg is right, it's a milestone release as far as many of us are concerned and we want to congratulate you. For me it's worth it to connect to the LS to use such a fab product. Congrats again guys. Don't worry we'll freak out again after a few more releases. :D

Pyrotek
I suggested awhile ago that we release a special "Localhost only" loginserver for testing purposes. Now that we are using the live client I believe we'll get to that soon. Just be patient.

Bunga
...so you are not intending to release a real login server? That kinda sucks, as it means I will never be able to use this emu.

I read what he said. Maybe you didn't read what I said.

He said they "might" release a "localhost only" logon server so admins can test things out.

I am asking for a complete logon server, that allows other people to join my server.

There is a slght difference between what they "might realese in the future" and a "logon server that is usable in LANs".

I think the original meaning of this thread was simply a request to make it a priority to have our own login server. Put my name down on that petition. :)
Dont get me wrong Devs , I think most of us understand that you guys are busy and have a lot of great things in the works.. we just asking that you bump up the priority on this a little :)

I think the last poster thinks hes a main coder for them. Listen up peeps. You dont tell them what to do. They are doing this on there own time. Give them about 1000 a week to program and then make demands. Until then STFU and wait.

sheesh, people dont demand just ask. If they dont want to do it they damn well dont. This Emu is by far the best one out. If your friends dont trust them then they shouldnt be on the internet. I could explain tons of stuff that your browser and websites do to pull alot of info from your PC. heh.


Image and Pyro ignore the DEMANDS. Selfish fuckers that demand something from someone that does this for all of us for free is just shitty.

Vipermmx definatly has a very large point. Unfortunatly, the fact remains that they do obviosuly have the software, but chose not to release it.

Well, if you dont trust the development team, then you are taking big risks running the emulator in the 1st place... That statement really doesnt make any sense, if you dont trust them, then you should be compiling the code yourself, after you've manually walked through every line of it...

I wouldnt make any demands on anyone if youre not a contributing member. They dont 'have' to code anything, and their not doing this project so you and your friends can gripe about the work they are doing.

This problem just popped up with version 0.2.0 (this weekend), give them some time to come up with a solution or workaround, 2 days to start screaming about it isnt really fair do ya think?

Ugh...this post was started out to be a simple petition to show the devs how many people would like to see a way to login to their servers without the current loginserver.

Some of you have hijacked this thread to be a flame/debate demanding the devs to release a loginserver. Others have come in to bicker with the demanders to STFU.

How about we stay on topic in this thread as a simple petition..not a flame war. This is NOT where I intended this thread to go and it dissapoints me greatly. :(

Folks, PLEASE... slow, deep breaths.

Slow, deep breaths...

Slow, deep breaths...

Slow, deep breaths...

Calm down. I'm 100% confident that we'll be seeing a login server in the near future. In the meantime, there are lots of other things we could direct our energies toward:

- building content DBs. This task can and should be partitioned into different areas: spawn types, actual spawns, quests, etc. Also, should we exactly mirror the live servers (IMHO this is boring), or partition our efforts into "legacy" and "original, add-on" content? How do we accomplish this in practice?

- deciphering .WLD files to make our own zones (I can help in this regard by releasing my enhanced version of ZoneConverter, even though it isn't 100% perfect--it's only 97% perfect :) )

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the dev team is looking at the suggestions we made JUST LAST NIGHT about what we want in a login server and are polishing it and making enhancements. Not to say that they ARE, I haven't spoken to the dev team, but that's what I very strongly suspect. Just relax. I'm sure it's coming.

Remember the thread just a few weeks ago about encryption? Well, that most definitely IS an issue in releasing the source code to a login server. That's also why ShowEQ doesn't include the ENTIRE source, only the non-encryption parts. Because distributing that would:

- be illegal, according to the DMCA
- cause VI to totally freak out and change their encryption, thus breaking ShowEQ, Sins, AND the loginserver.

Remember, the login server depends on its ability to understand encrypted packets from the client. If VI changes this, BOOM, the login server breaks and has to be updated. It might even cause everyone who has updated their client to have to get a new version of the emu. Not angering VI enough to take (programmatic, not legal) action would be a good reason not to release the source. As to releasing a binary, well, a localhost version would be a LOT easier to crank out and get out the door quickly to everyone. I can certainly see why they might want to hold off on releasing a full-blown version until it's polished and has been thoroughly checked for security holes (which are BAD, BAD, BAD...)

A "lite" localhost version will satisfy 90% of our concerns for the time being. If and when they release a full-blown version, believe me, we want one that both works, is secure from hacking, and, ABOVE ALL, protects both the privacy of the server operator and its users.

Windcatcher

Edit: typos

many good points WC: let's start another thread about content creation. I would be interested in helping out with this side of things in any way that I can: file hosting, light management, help in sorting out what's what, whatever.

I'll do what I can too.

It would almost be worthwhile creating a seperate CVS project for this, that way a central task management system could be used. Also, you can elimanate the chance of people working over the top of one another, and you have a better mechanism for tracking change. I'll be happy to help where-ever I can.

Please rember 2 things:
A. The DMCA is Unconstituonal
B. The DMCA is a COPYRIGHT LAW not a encryption law.

???
 

Is there something I'm missing.. ok eqmain.dll doesn't work anymore.. but eqhost is the file that directs it to a login server.. Why not just whip up a login server along with the world/zone servers and we can just edit eqhost.ini to localhost (or another ip on the lan) to connect to our server?

last time I checked, adobe was forced to recall their spot on DMCA because of a HUGE threatened boycott (and I'm sure they would thru their weight at verant/sony if they tried again).
I also do not believe that login info is conisdered "copyright". Thankyou =)

A: What is the DMCA?
b: Where is it unconstitutional?

We get the message and I belive Quag will make a statement, until he does post locked. Dont worry we do listen to our users :)

Blame verant for making it so you couldnt just delete eqmain.dll. =P

Belive me, i dont like the 1 login server either. It has it's benifets and it's downsides, and i think the downsides are greater. The problem right now is the login server code is MESS. If we released it 99% of people wouldnt be able to get it running, and we dont want to deal with people asking us how to do it right.

In about an hour i'll release a mini-loginserver that only accepts eqemu/eqemu as the username/password. I know it's not what everyone wants, but it's all i can figure out how to give without cracking verant's username encryption.