Mob difficulty isnt scaling with character

[jsr]

So they're double and triple your level 1 char's level.. imagine how that scales at 30? Like I was saying don't rush out and parse.

[Cowboy6534]

They barely hit for more than even cons with 113 ac....

/GU Tanking summary for: Zial --- Total damage: 4268 --- Avg hit: 2 --- Swings: 4252 --- Defended: 0 (0%) --- Hit: 2063 (48.5%) --- Missed: 2189 (51.5%) --- Accuracy: 48.5% --- Dodged: 0 (0%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 0 (0%) --- Riposted: 0 (0%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)



Zial - vs - Combined: A scaled wolf pup
Attempts 4252 100%
Missed 2189 51.48%
Dodged 0 0%
Parried 0 0%
Blocked 0 0%
Riposted 0 0%
Absorbed 0 0%
1 1288 30.29%
2 265 6.23%
3 146 3.43%
4 149 3.5%
5 83 1.95%
6 44 1.03%
7 30 0.71%
8 27 0.63%
9 9 0.21%
10 15 0.35%
11 4 0.09%
12 3 0.07%

[Cowboy6534]

But the great thing about gamparse is i can choose which fights i want to examine and I know that all of the scaled wolf pups and decaying skeletons are even con so I hand pick all of those.

[Cowboy6534]

Here is all of the decaying skeletons and scaled wolf pups

/GU Tanking summary for: Zial --- Total damage: 1828 --- Avg hit: 1 --- Swings: 2684 --- Defended: 0 (0%) --- Hit: 1108 (41.3%) --- Missed: 1576 (58.7%) --- Accuracy: 41.3% --- Dodged: 0 (0%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 0 (0%) --- Riposted: 0 (0%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)


Zial - vs - Combined: A scaled wolf pup
Attempts 2684 100%
Missed 1576 58.72%
Dodged 0 0%
Parried 0 0%
Blocked 0 0%
Riposted 0 0%
Absorbed 0 0%
1 773 28.8%
2 143 5.33%
3 82 3.06%
4 64 2.38%
5 29 1.08%
6 4 0.15%
7 7 0.26%
8 5 0.19%
9 1 0.04%


The above had 5 large scorps and 1 militia skeleton in it which is why the hit was as high as 12.

[jsr]

Can only speak for myself but I'm not interested in data which isn't coming from tightly controlled testing. Going to pass (no pun intended) on this one for now.

[Cowboy6534]

Here is the same data that I first posted with the large scorps and the militia skel removed

/GU Tanking summary for: Zial --- Total damage: 3307 --- Avg hit: 1 --- Swings: 3970 --- Defended: 0 (0%) --- Hit: 1849 (46.6%) --- Missed: 2121 (53.4%) --- Accuracy: 46.6% --- Dodged: 0 (0%) --- Parried: 0 (0%) --- Blocked: 0 (0%) --- Riposted: 0 (0%) --- Absorbed: 0 (0%)


Zial - vs - Combined: A scaled wolf pup
Attempts 3970 100%
Missed 2121 53.43%
Dodged 0 0%
Parried 0 0%
Blocked 0 0%
Riposted 0 0%
Absorbed 0 0%
1 1223 30.81%
2 243 6.12%
3 134 3.38%
4 135 3.4%
5 67 1.69%
6 20 0.5%
7 16 0.4%
8 10 0.25%
9 1 0.03%

The fact is at level 1 the difference is negligible. Also this is with a solo war. The data is going to be skewed at higher levels unless you have a group because fights will take longer with a solo warrior than with say an sk pally mnk zerker rog. The warrior will take more damage because they cant dps to save their life.

You can see that with those 5 mobs removed the percentages are off by +- two. So if you actually knew how to do this mathmatically you would know how to spot outliers and remove them.

Any body who has ever played live can tell that levels 1-5 even db and yellow mobs are very similar but once you pass lvl10 they start to scale more. You are making the assumption that all of the data will be this way. When in fact at later levels the warrior wont be able to solo even con mobs unless heavily twinked in which case the whole problem to begin with is that the current system is based on being raid geared which messes up the everything that isnt a raid target and anyone who isnt in raid gear. You have to balance raid mobs seperately from the rest of the npcs because they are the minority and they have special combat flags that normal mobs do not get.

You balance group npcs with group gear. Then you balance raid npcs with raid gear. This is how sony had the game balanced until they started throwing out all of the all all op raid gear starting with velious. Then everyone who had raid gear from that era on could easily take down previous raid targets very few peoeple. It wasn't until they started make class specific and set gear that it came back into a better balance.

[Caryatis]

The data is going to be skewed at higher levels unless you have a group because fights will take longer with a solo warrior than with say an sk pally mnk zerker rog. The warrior will take more damage because they cant dps to save their life.

You don't really understand the point of this. The length of fight, etc doesn't matter. You are parsing the incoming damage, everything else is irrelevant.

Balancing does not enter the equation yet, you find the formulas and correct combat and then the server ops balance their content.

Really you want something like 3 or 4 hours(absolute min) at each data point(which may be around 250 mobs, maybe less maybe more). But the real key here is that the people in charge of committing your change, agree with your methodology. You can waste all that time if people think your data is useless so there is no point until a process is solidified.

[lerxst2112]

Originally Posted by Cowboy6534

So if you actually knew how to do this mathmatically you would know how to spot outliers and remove them.

Stuff like this isn't going to help you sell your idea to anyone.

[jsr]

Any body who has ever played live can tell that levels 1-5 even db and yellow mobs are very similar but once you pass lvl10 they start to scale more. You are making the assumption that all of the data will be this way. When in fact at later levels the warrior wont be able to solo even con mobs unless heavily twinked in which case the whole problem to begin with is that the current system is based on being raid geared which messes up the everything that isnt a raid target and anyone who isnt in raid gear. You have to balance raid mobs seperately from the rest of the npcs because they are the minority and they have special combat flags that normal mobs do not get.

You balance group npcs with group gear. Then you balance raid npcs with raid gear. This is how sony had the game balanced until they started throwing out all of the all all op raid gear starting with velious. Then everyone who had raid gear from that era on could easily take down previous raid targets very few peoeple. It wasn't until they started make class specific and set gear that it came back into a better balance.

Ok so the problem I have now is that not only are you not interested in following any sort of instruction as to how to source data, but now there is this spectre of scope creep looming. If you want to make changes to to the emu code I think you're going to have to do them yourself.

[chrsschb]

Originally Posted by Cowboy6534

Any body who has ever played live can tell that levels 1-5 even db and yellow mobs are very similar but once you pass lvl10 they start to scale more. You are making the assumption that all of the data will be this way. When in fact at later levels the warrior wont be able to solo even con mobs unless heavily twinked in which case the whole problem to begin with is that the current system is based on being raid geared which messes up the everything that isnt a raid target and anyone who isnt in raid gear. You have to balance raid mobs seperately from the rest of the npcs because they are the minority and they have special combat flags that normal mobs do not get.

You balance group npcs with group gear. Then you balance raid npcs with raid gear. This is how sony had the game balanced until they started throwing out all of the all all op raid gear starting with velious. Then everyone who had raid gear from that era on could easily take down previous raid targets very few peoeple. It wasn't until they started make class specific and set gear that it came back into a better balance.

You're so lost it's insane. Just stop now, please.

[sorvani]

but he had pretty pictures!

[Akkadius]

[demonstar55]

Originally Posted by cavedude

As for combat, my own parses has shown there is a considerable difference between PC Live and EQMac. Basically, on EQMac the NPCs hit you more often and harder at all levels using toons with comparable stats/equipment. Live is what we are emulating, so that is going to be our model.

That is because AC Soft Caps changed with the release of SoD I believe. Plate went from 300 AC Soft Cap to 600 and the over cap return was tweaked for all classes too.

[Cowboy6534]

I found the problem last night and I no longer have this problem on my server. parse graphs for my server reflect what I have posted for live and eqmac...

[Caryatis]

So the options were completely rewrite the emu source or spend a night making changes locally? lol