Legality of OpenEQ

[Speedz]

You forget the biggest advantage.......No longer slave to the worry of the SOE copyright police

[jbb]

... unless you use any of their levels or graphics...

[mysticalninjajesus]

lol

[daeken_bb]

Anyway this is an interesting idea , however if you use any part of EQ , client , zone files , music , etc .. you are violating the copyright.

This is a common misconception. We are 100% allowed to use whatever materials we have on our PCs as long as we do not distribute them, which we aren't. If you want to use EQ's zones, you _must_ have acquired them from SOE.

We are 100% legal.

[jbb]

This is a common misconception. We are 100% allowed to use whatever materials we have on our PCs as long as we do not distribute them, which we aren't. If you want to use EQ's zones, you _must_ have acquired them from SOE.



Hmm.
The everquest licence states that you are authorized to use the "software" *solely* in connection with playing the game via an authorized and fully paid account.

As the licence is the only thing granting you any rights to use the "software" *at all*, breaking this condition means that you have no rights to use the files in any way.

You might not like this condition.
You might not think this applies to you.
You might not think this condition is enforcable.
You might not think sony will care enough to do anything about it.

But it's there.



I think that openeq needs to decide if they want to emulate an eq client, or if they want to create a new game. In which case MNJ is right, why base it on eq at all? I think this project needs a clear vision :)

[mattmeck]

As the licence is the only thing granting you any rights to use the "software" *at all*, breaking this condition means that you have no rights to use the files in any way.

Breaking this condition means they will not allow you to play on THERE servers, dont quote some if your not going to quote all.


http://mattmeck.rogean.com/mattmeck/EQpun.jpg

I do not have a live account i do not click i accept, and i do not have am accout for them to ban, which acording to there own agreemen is the stated punishment.



I think that openeq needs to decide if they want to emulate an eq client, or if they want to create a new game. In which case MNJ is right, why base it on eq at all? I think this project needs a clear vision Smile

The vision is clearly stated, it will allow people to emulate EQ *OR* create a new game, depending on what the people using it want.

[jbb]

Breaking this condition means they will not allow you to play on THERE servers

Agreed.
But the agreement is the *only* thing that allows you to use their copyrighted material at all in *any way*. So once that is terminated you have no rights at all to use it.

When you "buy" a copy of the software you are in fact doing no such thing. You are purchasing physical media with the software on, and a license agreement that grants you the right to use the copyrighted material in certain ways.

I don't like it any more than you do, but that's the way it is sadly.

[jbb]

Hmm, I didn't want to get into this argument. It's not why I come here.... Is it possible for someone to delete my posts as although I stand by what I said, I'd rather have not said anything :)

[animepimp]

Its also not really an enforcable liscense except for being banned from Sony's servers because you never once have to actually agree to it. You can delete the contents of Eula.txt before running the game and never agree to a single thing. The only real issue is copyright infringement laws and fair use laws which I'm not gong to pretend I know about.

[a_Guest03]

daeken can delete it, and mattmeck can, if you ask them nicely, but they'd have to remove responses too. Otherwise, it would look weird!

[jbb]

No big deal just didn't want that dissusion on here very much. Doesn't matter though

[JohnMcguirk]

eh, if they wanted to bust eqemu i think they could. most of their money comes from subscriptions anyway doesnt it? i dont think theres anymore chance of being busted if you had a eqemu patcher.. i mean.. they let you download all the expansions in the patcher and eqtrliogy on the eq ftp. they obviously dont care about people getting the software for free. also if your not trying to emulate eq, and all your going for is the eq gameplay with no soe work on it at all, why do you need wait for openeq to do so, theres plenty of game engines out there already capable.

khan, that screenshot proves nothing, nothing exept the engine's lighting is nowhere near eq's and is at low rez. until theres a demo of 50k polys on screen including animation particles and lighting getting good fps im not impressed.

[mattmeck]

How about i link the relivent threads about legalities that have already been beaten to death and split the topic and its taken ithere?

http://www.eqemulator.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=18393&highlight=legality
http://www.eqemulator.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17556&highlight=legality
http://www.eqemulator.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10145&highlight=legality


and more and more and more, this question has come up at least monthly since i have been here,

to quote the most relivant

Violation of Sony's EULA is not Violation of federal law, thus EQemu is not illegal.

[daeken_bb]

It's been a long time since I've read SOE's EULA, but I believe it applies _only_ to the software, not the data. Meaning it's not only legal, it's not even a violation of the EULA.

[Windcatcher]

It looks to me like this discussion is being pulled in two different directions, content and quality (actually quality can be broken into client quality and content quality). Well I might as well chime in since I have an interest in one of them, content.

You know, there's a niftly little program (hell, what am I talking about? It's probably 100k lines of code by now) called OpenZone. IT LETS YOU MAKE ZONES. I ought to know: I wrote it. No SOE textures, no SOE models: you can make entirely original zones from scratch, or even make them from scratch in the 3D tool of your choice and import them as .3DS files. Before anyone complains about the quality of any content, you should know that the tools exist for you to make content on your own. If anyone here is a professional 3D modeler and you can do better, you're most welcome to join the effort and submit your own creative vision. The more the merrier.

I realize that there's more to content than just zones, but a library of canned objects (like houses, or anything else you can think of) is also welcome, since it would make it a lot easier for anyone else to create zones. As long as everything you submit isn't copyrighted by anyone else, there is a lot of opportunity to contribute. Someday we hope to make it possible to add mob models as well (the biggest obstacle for me is getting my hands on some free examples that I can read -- we already know how to export a skeleton model as .WLD). The point here is that before complaining about content, remember that you can contribute to improve the situation.

The client itself will improve over time. Expecting it to be some awesome thing off the bat is unrealistic. It will evolve, and you'll have a front-row seat to the process where you can make suggestions, but to suggest that it's useless until it can surpass EQ is IMHO absurd. A client is as useful as its users decide it is, and when a patch breaks EQEmu I think a third-party client fixed to a specific version of the server would suddenly become very useful. I've said for a long time that EQEmu needs to divorce itself from the EQLive client and SOE's patching schedule, and it just might finally come to pass.

I'd like nothing more than to see an OpenEQ that had enough content that one could play satisfactorily without any SOE content. We can all agree that it's badly out of date, and there's something to be said for discovering something new. I'm sure many people here can walk the SOE zones blindfolded and that's a very bad thing.

[mattmeck]

I'd like nothing more than to see an OpenEQ that had enough content that one could play satisfactorily without any SOE content. We can all agree that it's badly out of date, and there's something to be said for discovering something new. I'm sure many people here can walk the SOE zones blindfolded and that's a very bad thing.

Amen


and i know of at leat 2 server that are trying to acomplish this, it will be a wonderfull day when you wont need to log onto SOE's patcher to play on EQEmu.

[jbb]

/agree windcatcher

[daeken_bb]

It looks to me like this discussion is being pulled in two different directions, content and quality (actually quality can be broken into client quality and content quality). Well I might as well chime in since I have an interest in one of them, content.

You know, there's a niftly little program (hell, what am I talking about? It's probably 100k lines of code by now) called OpenZone. IT LETS YOU MAKE ZONES. I ought to know: I wrote it. No SOE textures, no SOE models: you can make entirely original zones from scratch, or even make them from scratch in the 3D tool of your choice and import them as .3DS files. Before anyone complains about the quality of any content, you should know that the tools exist for you to make content on your own. If anyone here is a professional 3D modeler and you can do better, you're most welcome to join the effort and submit your own creative vision. The more the merrier.

I realize that there's more to content than just zones, but a library of canned objects (like houses, or anything else you can think of) is also welcome, since it would make it a lot easier for anyone else to create zones. As long as everything you submit isn't copyrighted by anyone else, there is a lot of opportunity to contribute. Someday we hope to make it possible to add mob models as well (the biggest obstacle for me is getting my hands on some free examples that I can read -- we already know how to export a skeleton model as .WLD). The point here is that before complaining about content, remember that you can contribute to improve the situation.

The client itself will improve over time. Expecting it to be some awesome thing off the bat is unrealistic. It will evolve, and you'll have a front-row seat to the process where you can make suggestions, but to suggest that it's useless until it can surpass EQ is IMHO absurd. A client is as useful as its users decide it is, and when a patch breaks EQEmu I think a third-party client fixed to a specific version of the server would suddenly become very useful. I've said for a long time that EQEmu needs to divorce itself from the EQLive client and SOE's patching schedule, and it just might finally come to pass.

I'd like nothing more than to see an OpenEQ that had enough content that one could play satisfactorily without any SOE content. We can all agree that it's badly out of date, and there's something to be said for discovering something new. I'm sure many people here can walk the SOE zones blindfolded and that's a very bad thing.

I agree with you on every single point. The thing is, I want full support for EQ's files. That doesn't mean we have to _use_ them, but I believe that if this project is really going to go somewhere, we need them at least to start.

[mattmeck]

I agree with you on every single point. The thing is, I want full support for EQ's files. That doesn't mean we have to _use_ them, but I believe that if this project is really going to go somewhere, we need them at least to start.

Exactly right, just because a few people dont want to emulate EQ dose not mean everyone wants it that way. This is a way for everyone to get what they want.

some want EQ
Others want EQish
still others want something diferent then EQ

All are right in what they want and none is bettter then the other, its a matter of opinion, and you are catering to the community and giving everyone what they want.

[jbb]

/agree
Developing new client and new content at the same time is far to difficult. Making it work with EQ zones means that most of the hard work with the server side can be reused as can all of openzone to create contents

[daeken_bb]

Now we're off this topic too! haha. I suggest we continue this on the new Vision Statement post I put up a bit ago :)

I'm going to be in and out for the next hour or two... talking to Christine and making/eating dinner, so I will be on and off :)