server critics (new idea)

[Woodlife Treestrider]

ok, so with the ever present dumping of questions onto the forum such as "what server should I go on?!?!?!?!?!?" I have come up with what may be a good idea. If you, the players, would not mind posting on this thread about the positive and negative points of a server, a basic run down of the game play, who would find it the most fun, and so on. here is what a basic form would look like, in order to make a good documentation of the server:
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Server Name: (if anyone asks me what this is supposed to mean.... oh man)

Website, if one: (provide web address if the server has one)

Server type: (legit, semi-legit, non-legit)

Custom Content: (yes or no answer here)

What type of custom content: (only if answered yes to above question)

GMs: (if information is available, listing the lead GMs might be helpful to some)

Basic run down of gameplay: (summarize, in your words, the basics about the server. if there is one, the basic storyline. Also, to help newbies to the server have an easier time in the beginning, a basic run down of how YOU got to level 1-10.)

Positive Attributes: (the best points about the server)


Negative Attributes: (the flaws and annoying parts of the server)


What type of player would find this server enjoyable: (start with either: Hardcore, Decent amount of ours put in, or casual. then, what type of person would enjoy this server, beside being catergorized by the type of player mentioned above)

Star Rating: (how many stars out of 5 this server deserves. 1 being the worst, 5 being the best. pleave give a BRIEF discription why you chose this number of stars)
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Ok, that form was pretty simple. This thread is meant to give new players a place to look for a server, instead of posting there requests on a different thread. I mean, let's face it. It's nice to help the new players choose a server, but after the answer (which in some cases takes awhile to get the answer the newbie is looking for) is given, the thread is forgotten, and the same type of newbie player comes along later asking the same question. This thread will give them a place to look before they ask. To help, I will give an example of how it should look. By the way, this is an example. Its been awhile since i got really into this server, so some information may be incorrect. Feel free to let me know about any faulty information, but DO NOT FLAME ANYONE if they provide information that is incorrect, or if it is NOT what you want to hear. This is a place to break down a server and to let players know how it REALLY is. If you are gonna go soft on the server because your afraid admins will ban you from their server, or give you shit for it, or because your a GM for your server trying to get numbers, THEN DO NOT POST A REVIEW FOR A SERVER. Get ugly, let the server GMs and players know what is REALLY wrong with there servers. If this whole deal works out, then you posting a negative review about their server sends a message. But, also, be respectful. Some server admins are new to the scene, some just want to give players a place to play. Understand that the GMs have feelings too. Just because you didn't like there server doesn't mean that you have to beat them down with every single chance you have. Now, I have a simple request for the admins of this site, and admins of their servers. If ANYONE reports an incident where they were banned, harrassed, or otherwise beaten down because of this, and can provide proof to make their statement true, then please TAKE ACTION against the people causing the incident. If that means banning this thread, then do it. I would rather have a good idea go to hell, then have someone go through hell because of their honesty.

Now, without further adeu, I present to you, the review of the server scorpious2k:
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Server Name: Scorpious2k

Website: www.scorp2k.net

Server Type: Legit

Custom Content: Yes

What type of custom content: Items, mobs, zones, level cap.

GMs: Last time I played, Mattmeck, Dindoleki, and some others. The names escape my memory at the moment.

Game Play: Well, when I last played, you chose your race and class, and hit enter world. You start in the tutorial zone. Not the new one, but the old school one, where in eq live you played a character by the name soandso. It basically contains some random mobs that you fight till around 15, or atleast i think it was 15. Then, you grab a port to halas, where pretty much all players begin, and you start adventuring by buying tickets off vendors. these tickets send you to various locations within the world. For new players, its recommended you try to beg I think it was 1k pp off someone and buy your first epic at the guy in the tutorial zone. This has most likely changed, so someone will probably correct me on this. Also, there is a water elemental in the tutorial zone that you can kill for a chance at him dropping a bottle that gives you unlimited charges of gate. This is VERY handy, trust me. From halas, its alot of asking around on where to go next. That pretty much covers it. Sorry to scorp2k server if I provided faulty information. Its been quite awhile. But, I do still know a decent amount about the server, i have two characters level 105. The best information I could provide is how you should probably ask around and look at your equipment before coming back from a 3 month break and trying to solo LD. I didn't notice my lord snare shield wasnt insta cast CH anymore, and that my pet as doing 1 damage per hit instead of his normal 2k. Well, long story short, I got him to 45% and said forget, its taking to long, and let my pet die, at which point I took over the melee end of the fight... Well anyway.

Positive Attributes:
>Fun gameplay
>Provides some type of enjoyable challenge
>Decent amount of custom content
>dedicated staff
Negative Attributes:
>Can be boring leveling up in predefined zones for leveling. GMs and Devs of scorp2k may want to add some diversity to there available zones to level in.
>Alot of loose ends. For a server that is based on being custom, they have alot of old world zones still infested with the old world spawns. In my opinion, it would be nice to see ALL the zones utilized, with custom mobs in every zone. Note to GMs and Devs: Next time you plan on doing a major revamp, try deleting the entries in the spawn table, and starting from brand new spawns.
>Extremely bland storyline. I mean, last time I played scorp2k, there wasn't even a storyline. I noticed they added some story with there diggers and archeologists, and its nice to see they are trying to add some background.
>Quests are unbelieveably stupid. This is by FAR the worst part of the server. For the very few quests they do have, they are extremely bland, and very short. To be honest, it would make it better if the quests were a little more challenging and entertaining, and would add a LOT more to your server.

Type of Players: Casual to someone who wants to put some decent hours into it. Don't make it much of a commitment, because it would be better to kind of server hop, with this server being the common ground when you wanna focus on playing one server for a few hours. Its a fun server, and even though it can get boring at times, there usually is something to do, even if that means buying a ticket to an eq live zone you always loved to level in and just feelin the nostalgia.

Star Rating: 3 1/2 out of 5. I gave them a three because even though its a fun server, with great GMs and a fun enviroment, its gets boring and you can see a small lack of commitment in the lore, or the lack there of.

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[Cisyouc]

This would work if servers stayed up for more than a few months/weeks.

[Woodlife Treestrider]

well thats only a small problem. If my computer didn't freggin explode I would do a review for all the servers, then as they came and went I would just edit my posts. It is really not like im asking you to compile a full fledged report on a server. Just give the basic information and your views on the server and gameplay.

[RangerDown]

Ideally any critic submissions would be tied to the server registration database (see Server List on the front page of www.eqemulator.net (http://www.eqemulator.net/)) so you could pick the server you're critiquing from there.

If the admins want to have something like this, they could give anyone willing to put it into action an empty SQL table structure of what they use for their server registration database, and you could code the PHP to do this. I believe they're looking for web devs right now to enhance the web site.

This is assuming they want to go that direction. The issues I have with this are
- Server ops are volunteers, and a handful of harsh criticisms might be the straws that make them give up. There might be a no-win situation where some criticisms are harsh enough to really make the server ops question their desire to keep the server running, but don't technically break any rules so any administrative removal of those submissions would be a subjective decision (read: censorship).

- I don't wanna hear a big dramatic 500-paragraph count of a SPECIFIC issue that YOU had with the server, and too many people would use the criticism form for that. Don't like the fact a server op declined to reimburse your lost Soul Devourer cuz he couldn't find provable evidence it was in your posession? Run to the server critique form. Got banned for MQ'ing? Go run to the critique form and do a smear campaign.

- It is not the responsibility of the eqemu dev team to get involved in any personal server affairs. You request they get involved if there's evidence of retaliation for submitted criticism. I disagree, and I know the core dev team well enough to know they disagree -- they don't want to open that can of worms. The only exception would be if you feel that a server op who is also a dev/admin of eqemu is retaliating in ways that extend beyond his authority as a server op and affect your access to eqemu services in general.

[Woodlife Treestrider]

I know what your trying to say. I also had thought about that before it was mentioned. I knew there would be bad reviews, but I was hoping that the maturity of this community would help in keeping that down. But, in the end, its the decision of the people who do it. If you want to submit one, there's nothing in keeping you from doing it. Just please keep in mind that their are real people behind the servers and it would appreciated if you atleast control yourself.

About the issue with retaliation from the server and/or site ops, I disagree to a point. I agree that no one wants to get stuck with that kind of situation, but I also said in my first post that I would only bother with investigating the problem further if their was evidence of a server/site admin abusing authority based on their emotional state. Here would be an example: Player_A sends PM to Admin_A saying that ServerOP_A banned them from their server and is harrasing him with PMs and while in IRC. Admin_A would then ask Player_A for evidence, such as forwarding PMs and/or saving conversations in IRC. Then, if the Admin believes the evidence is true, then you would go from there. That's just an example, and, whether you believe it or not, a lot of the problems would be in a form like this. Either that, or maybe a player is being harrased by GMs and players on a server, and the player would just take screenshots of the conversations on the server. I mean, its pretty simple, and for anyone who claims they were being harrased but cannot provide very simple, yet very strong evidence, then I would expect nothing more of the site GM then to just ignore it, because theirs no point in getting involved.

I understand the above sounds like a lot of trouble to go through, so if you don't want to do it, then whatever. Im not gonna beg you to do it. Im just letting you know that it would most likely not be a very complicated job, it's just most of the site admins for EqEmu either don't have the time or don't want to.

Finally, about the server ops getting upset by the critisicm is kind of stupid. In my opinion, if you can't take someone not liking your view of things then you shouldn't have a server. Someone who sends in a critisicm, whether it be good or WAY out of line, about a server should tell the GM something. If the GM really cares about his server and his players, then he would take a moment and read the critisicm and if their is a problem about his server that more than just the poster pointed out, it is a GREAT oppurtunity for the GM to correct it, or address it. Cause what I have noticed, as in EQLive, suggestions made my players is either ignored or rejected without further looking into it. With a forum type deal, the players can post in reply to the critisicm, either aggreeing or disaggreeing. I understand that people get hurt when their creations, or their hardwork, is shot down. That is where I ask the players of this community to please act mature.

That's about all their is to answer. If you don't like the idea, then just say so. That's all I wanted.

P.S.: an example of a "bad" critique of someones idea or creation would be the post above this. Im not at all mad at the the guy, I like that at least some people are still alive on these boards. But instead of getting emotional and just starting a flame war, you just gotta learn to learn from the post.

[RangerDown]

I was hoping that the maturity of this community would help in keeping that down
Don't let the posting population fool you -- the regulars on these forums are pretty mature, but that doesn't represent the community as a whole. It's got its ladies and gentlemen and its got its jackasses. And those jackasses will surely come out of the woodwork at the opportunity to bash a server -- especially if they have some personal issue with the server op there.

If you haven't done so, I recommend visiting IRC and joining a few channels -- use /list and join several of the most populated channels. Once you've spent some time listening to what goes on in those channels, come back here and talk about your faith in the maturity of the community :D

would be an example: Player_A sends PM to Admin_A saying that ServerOP_A banned them from their server and is harrasing him with PMs and while in IRC.
Action could very well be taken in this instance. If it is, it's because harassing another IRC user in general is not something that is tolerated on the IRC network. The admin handling your issue won't know, and will only marginally care, about what your prior relationship to this person was.

Suppose the server op didn't harass you in PM's, but only banned you from the server and possibly banned you from the server's IRC channel. I would be the first to outwardly decry the decision of any IRC operator who took it upon themselves to get involved in that issue.

P.S.: an example of a "bad" critique of someones idea or creation would be the post above this . . . But instead of getting emotional and just starting a flame war . . .

I'd be contradicting myself if I didn't let you have an opinion on my last post, so have your opinion. As far as getting emotional, I never felt any hate, resentment, or -- as the pastor of the church whose office I was working in at the time I posted this would say -- any "high octane ping" when I posted this response. I simply laid out what I felt this could lead to. Not to say a server critique wouldn't provide a benefit to the community -- it would, but at what price?

If you want to see emotional, check out http://www.eqemulator.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18744


It is posts like this that make us want to close off development and not release public versions until they are release quality, which could be close to never. Dont post shit like this, it pisses us off. We didnt tell you to use 6.1, you chose to pull it from development CVS and employ it... take it up with Sony if you dont like the way shit is working, they are the ones that broke it.


This is a member of the eqemu dev team responding to a post that said "Just be glad you can even play at this point, 6.1 is the buggiest version to date." Fact: most server operators put their servers up because they want to see enjoyment of their product. Same reason devs continue to code eqemu. As you can see above, when they get blasted with negative criticism time and time again, it wears them down.

Anyways, that's enough post for one round. Heading to bed :)

[Woodlife Treestrider]

I'd be contradicting myself if I didn't let you have an opinion on my last post, so have your opinion. As far as getting emotional, I never felt any hate, resentment, or -- as the pastor of the church whose office I was working in at the time I posted this would say -- any "high octane ping" when I posted this response. I simply laid out what I felt this could lead to. Not to say a server critique wouldn't provide a benefit to the community -- it would, but at what price?

If you want to see emotional, check out http://www.eqemulator.net/forums/showthread.php?t=18744


I know, I wasn't saying you were trying to rant or anything. Just saying that when you post an opinion, not everyone is gonna like it. So, instead of taking it personally, just learn from it. Im not trying to flame you, either. I don't care if you guys use this thing. I have been bored for awhile and this thought popped in my noggin, and sounded like it may be kind of interesting and useful. Obviously, the oppurtunities of abuse exceed the oppurtunities for assitance, I figured I would still lay the idea out there.

Also, I know what your talking about about the people who don't post but would come out of the woodwork. I was just not expecting that to be a problem worth addressing. And I have been in IRC alot, you may know me. Im Orknel, this name was the name I first signed up with. It was my druid from live, so I was attached. But anyway, thats beside the point.

So, use this at your will. I don't really care. I was just hoping that some of the more respected members f the community might like it, and be forward about helping. But, you do point out some good issues. Once again, use at your will, but anyone does use this, please stay polite.