Scorp site down maby server

[mattmeck]

I have recieved a Cease a Desist Order from SOE telling me to take the Scorpious2k web site and forums down. I havent talked to Scorp to see if he recieved one for the server itself, but im sure thats not far behind.

[Belfedia]

Dohh !!!
I think soe loose to much money...
and they hunt emulators now like wow :(
/comfort Scorp, Matt, i hope is'nt so serious !

" Is nobody here a lawyer and would know if there is something has to make against that ?"

[WildcardX]

Dear Sony,

I am buying XBox 360.

That is all.

[ltlruss]

That's really too bad... Looks like it might be a trend. Hopefully some of the servers can stay under Sony's radar... good luck Matt......

[johane]

That's really too bad... Looks like it might be a trend. Hopefully some of the servers can stay under Sony's radar... good luck Matt......

Am I right in thinking that it's only the servers with various kinds of "patchers" who are getting these letters so far? If so the rules here are vindicated.

[cavedude]

Patchers have nothing to do with it. Sony owns the copyright, and they have all the money. They can and will do whatever they want. I just hope they only pick on the servers and not the emulator itself.

[mattmeck]

What SOE is doing isnt legal, Its just the fact SOE has more plat then me to pay for lawyers......

[solid11]

All the lawyers in the world won't change what the law is. If Sony gets a reputation of losing cases in court just because they want to spend their mass amount of money to flex their might, they'll lose faction with stockholders and that wont be good.

"Your standing with a_county_attorney could not possibly get any better."
"Your standing with a_disgruntled_stockholder has gotten worse."

[mystic414]

What SOE is doing isnt legal, Its just the fact SOE has more plat then me to pay for lawyers......

These forums have over 60,000 registered users (i'm not kidding). If even 10% of those users donated $10 to a "hire a lawyer to show SOE who's boss" fund, that'd bring in $60,000... that should be enough to get a decent lawyer ;)

And that's if the average donation is $10. Just think how much that would bring in if people donated an amount around what it costs to buy a new PC game ($50 or more). Can you say, "over a quarter of a million dollars"?

[mystic414]

And along those lines, if someone can actually organize something like that, I'd gladly donate at least $50 to the project, maybe more. After all the time I've spent playing with it, I'd say that would be pretty reasonable.

[sdabbs65]

maybe 60 of them are adults
the rest of the 60,000 registered users are Kids and are broke..why do you think they play Freeservers.
you may get some money from the dedicated people but I doubt you will get anywhere near the funds they have.

[mystic414]

maybe 60 of them are adults
the rest of the 60,000 registered users are Kids and are broke..why do you think they play Freeservers.
you may get some money from the dedicated people but I doubt you will get anywhere near the funds they have.

60 adults? .1% of the registered users? I think that's a bit low... but even if you were right about that..

Kids aren't broke. They get allowances, and they get jobs. They have money to go to movies, buy video games, etc. And even barring that, they have parents they could easily weasle 10 bucks out of :P

$10 is practically nothing. Stay home from McDonalds once or twice and you've got it.

And you don't need to equal SOE's resources to stand up to them. You just need enough to get a decent lawyer, which, while not cheap, doesn't require the resources of an entire corporation to do.

[sdabbs65]

60 adults? .1% of the registered users? I think that's a bit low... but even if you were right about that..

Kids aren't broke. They get allowances, and they get jobs. They have money to go to movies, buy video games, etc. And even barring that, they have parents they could easily weasle 10 bucks out of :P

$10 is practically nothing. Stay home from McDonalds once or twice and you've got it.

And you don't need to equal SOE's resources to stand up to them. You just need enough to get a decent lawyer, which, while not cheap, doesn't require the resources of an entire corporation to do.

Umm thats crazy talk 1 lawyer against that....hmmm I got bets on the outcome.
you know your dealing with kids RIGHT ? most of them will say LOL NOOB...

[mystic414]

you know your dealing with kids RIGHT ? most of them will say LOL NOOB...
Probably. That's why I based my figures on 10% of the people responding, instead of 70%. But, there are a lot of "kids" out there who like EQEmu a lot more than EQ Live for whatever reason... maybe it's because it's free, maybe it's because certain servers are (were) more fun than EQ Live. And 10 bucks isn't a lot to ask of people who often pay more than that each month just to play on EQ Live.

So you've made your stance clear. You certainly don't have to donate a cent to the project, if you choose not to. I'm curious to see what other people think about the issue, though.

[sdabbs65]

Probably. That's why I based my figures on 10% of the people responding, instead of 70%. But, there are a lot of "kids" out there who like EQEmu a lot more than EQ Live for whatever reason... maybe it's because it's free, maybe it's because certain servers are (were) more fun than EQ Live. And 10 bucks isn't a lot to ask of people who often pay more than that each month just to play on EQ Live.

So you've made your stance clear. You certainly don't have to donate a cent to the project, if you choose not to. I'm curious to see what other people think about the issue, though.

Well I agree with some of those things.
but a lot of it is based on the Player Support I have now.
how many new POP and up zones have you seen avalibe,None...
Database's beside PEQ, None...it goes on and on.
im not going to go into the details but I can guess that 10% is about right.
and 5% really cares.
I would donate 1000 bucks if I thought it mattered... but I think it's a lost cause.

[solid11]

It's actually a no-lose situation. You just get a lawyer that will only charge you if you win the case(which you would), and Sony would be paying the attorney fees and court costs as part of the law suit. Like I said, no law has been broken(emu wise), not sure about S2K's situation with their patcher, but if Sony ever came after this site, they wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Maybe that's why they haven't so far....

[johane]

It's actually a no-lose situation. You just get a lawyer that will only charge you if you win the case(which you would), and Sony would be paying the attorney fees and court costs as part of the law suit. Like I said, no law has been broken(emu wise), not sure about S2K's situation with their patcher, but if Sony ever came after this site, they wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Maybe that's why they haven't so far....

As one of the 0.1% I'm sorry that I have to inform you of a few things...

No-Win-no-fee lawyers cost a lot. They don't charge you THEIR fee unless you win, but they do pass on all other charges, including:

Filing fees
Expert Witness fees
Travel costs for Expert Witness(es)
Accomodation for Expert Witness(es)
Barrister Fees
Expert Opinions
Lawyer's Travel fees
Lawyer's use of a whore when traveling
Lawyer's Medical costs for the dose of clap he got from the whore
etc etc etc

Basically, the lawyer never puts his hand in his own pocket for any expense - he puts his hand in YOUR pocket. And yes, it feels like he's molesting you.

How do I know this for a fact? I'm sitting here, typing on a collection of second hand parts cos I'm on a disability pension, because I don't have the $250,000 needed to sue some doctors for negligence using a "no-win-no-fee" lawyer. On a personal note, this sucks a lot. Thankfully I live in a socialist country so painkillers are cheap (3 boxes of oxy cost me $5.40, versus $270 that the government pays for it), and the government pays for my pain specialist (free vs $1200 per month).

Remember the Golden Rule - "Whoever has the gold makes the rules"

Edit:

Please note that the mention of the politics of my country are not in any way a derogatory comment about your country. In particular I will not heed any Americans who start to rant that "Socialism is back-door communism", as it isn't, but I wouldnt expect you to know that. A short list of Socialist Countries includes Sweden, Denmark, Australia, New Zealand and Eire.

[Windcatcher]

The custom zones Scorp and others worked on were extremely well done, and the one KhaN did is stunning. Whatever happens, we should make certain that all that work isn't lost.

[thorndruid]

I like the eqemulator, i even play on scorps server. But you have acknowledge a couple of things. The client for eqemulator is Sony's (they designed it, they developed it), all graphics are Sony's. Even the characters you make on live are theirs. What they are doing as I see is perfectly legal, i see that in the EULA of serveral online games now, NO EMULATORS. I know for a fact City of Heroes has it. Usually Sony and the rest of them don't care, until either some disgruntalled player of the free server snitches to them, which is what i think happened with scorps. While i see its not illegal to make an emulator (grey area) is definately illegal to play on one. There is actually an opensource developed from scratch mmporg called planeshift(check sourceforge), which has the client and server from scratch and its open source, if i was a programmer, i would be supportting that. I applaude all the work thats gone into the eq emulator but i think the dreaded big business spectre is looming over the project.

[stefann]

On the Scorp forums I founf a interesting topic that actually probed playing on emulated servers to be legal. That 14th statment in Sony's EULA is actually against the law.
Edit-> Hmm they moved it, was 14 last time i checked, it's really 9, oops. While I am at it here is a copy of that post I found
---
QUOTE
14. You will not create, use or provide any server emulator or other site where EverQuest may be played, and you will not post or distribute any utilities, emulators or other software tools related to EverQuest without the express written permission of Sony Computer Entertainment America.


DIRECTLY VIOLATES TITLE 15 OF UNITED STATES ANTITRUST LAW.

QUOTE
Sec. 14. Sale, etc., on agreement not to use goods of competitor (

[cavedude]

The 14th statement simply says that they aren't responsible for any damages their product or service may cause. There is nothing illegal about that. That paragraph prevents assholes from losing their job because they play too much and then go ahead and sue SOE because of that.

[Scorpious2k]

I would be willing to sell the server....

200+ populated zones
custom zones
player accounts
player characters
custom items
custom code (including the source)
quests
custom spells

wonder what it would be worth....

[stefann]

Someone Buy It, Please!!!

[mattmeck]

The C&D I recieved didnt mention the server at all, just the web site, which is in my name. So i wonder if everything would have been registered through dummy names if they could have done anything.

[cavedude]

Chuck U. Farlie would have been a great one.

[thorndruid]

IMPORTANT-READ CAREFULLY: By viewing these web pages, you ("the end-user") agree to abide by the following conditions. Violation is punishable by law.

1. You will not copy, modify, duplicate, print, transmit, download, interpret, redistribute, evaluate, be inspired by, filter, decode, or otherwise reproduce elements of these pages.

2. You agree to only keep one copy of these pages on your computer at any one time. Viewing these pages with multiple browsers, keeping a disk cache, making printouts with a browser window open, having two people view the same browser window simultaneously, and thinking about one part of these pages while viewing another are strictly prohibited.

3. You will follow a strict Kantian interpretation of these pages. Attempts to view these pages in an ironic or post-structuralist fashion are strictly prohibited.

4. Reviews of these pages and comments to other people must be made in strictly dulcet, admiring tones. For example, "eqemulator is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful conference I've ever known in my life."

5. You agree not view these pages on a Thursday.

6. Thou shalt honor thy father and thy mother.

7. No guarantees are made as to the correctness, accuracy, pertinence, usefulness, or quality of the material on this website. In fact, there are several out-and-out lies. See if you can figure out where they are. We think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

8. By viewing these pages, you agree that this EULA voids all preceding relevant laws and EULA's. You agree to waive your rights to sue eqemulator for any and all infringement. eqemulator will be viewed as strictly above the law, with all the equivalent rights (but not duties) of a sovereign nation-state.

9. This EULA will be considered binding even if you do not explicitly agree to it. This EULA will be considered binding even if you do not view these web pages.

10. The party of the first part shall be known in this EULA as the party of the first part. That's pretty neat, eh?

11. You are already in violation of this EULA. You will surrender all assets, possessions, and children upon demand. Come to the stone bridge by the misty river at midnight and await further instructions.

[thorndruid]

The End User License Agreement - or EULA - is a legally binding contract between the developer or publisher of a software program (or application) and the purchaser of that software. However, unlike the purchase of goods or services, the EULA is, as its name implies, a license agreement. In other words, the purchaser does not own the software, they merely have a right to use it in accordance with the licence agreement.

"That means we do not own the Everquest game, we lease it"

Also this i just found does not look good...
http://www.eff.org/IP/Emulation/Blizzard_v_bnetd/

EULA are friggin chokers.

[thorndruid]

Found a great site outlining everything to do with EULA's and you can email a rights group as well.

http://www.eff.org/wp/eula.php

[wize_one]

The End User License Agreement - or EULA - is a legally binding contract between the developer or publisher of a software program (or application) and the purchaser of that software. However, unlike the purchase of goods or services, the EULA is, as its name implies, a license agreement. In other words, the purchaser does not own the software, they merely have a right to use it in accordance with the licence agreement.

"That means we do not own the Everquest game, we lease it"

Also this i just found does not look good...
http://www.eff.org/IP/Emulation/Blizzard_v_bnetd/

EULA are friggin chokers.

then why when i log in to live.. on server select, it tells me i OWN 10 of 10 expansions??!!

[cavedude]

Yep that's the problem. All these companies say we OWN their software when in fact we are only licensed to use it. If we owned it, we'd have the source code. I guess they say "buy" instead of "license" to not confuse the masses (and I'll tell ya - they are easily confused) but it's still a lie anyway you look at it.

[Sakrateri]

So, If they they tell me to "buy" thier software and to "purchase" thier expansions and I do and then find out that I have not either "bought " nor "purchased" anything more then a license to use said product then would this not be a clear cut case of False Advertising? which by the way is against the law in America. Now if they had a statement on the package that I could read BEFORE "purchasing" it stating that I was NOT in fact "buying" anything more then a license to use the product then this would not be true but since I have got to "purchase" the product before I found out I have not "purchased" anything in reality then I sense a possible False Advertising lawsuit somewhere in this mix. Kind of like if I gave $18,000 for a new car and got home and opened the glove box and there was a note in there saying " By accepting the key and inserting it in the ignition I accept the fact that I am only leasing this car from a dealer who can tell me at anytime what I am allowed to do with said car and where I am allowed to go with said car and that I also accept the fact there is no way I can get my money back" Well , its kinda late after I allready gave my cash and drove off with the car before I find the note to do anything about it. Yep , we are all suckers . and there is a new one born every minute !

[solid11]

So if I understand this right, once I do not want to play anymore, I'm required to return the discs I bought to Sony?.....

They probably didn't really want us to have those files on those CD's we BOUGHT and would like them back. Anyone have a mailing address?

I mean, we don't really own those CD's, we just paid 29.99 for an invisible account key and that was it. I think we should all send back the CD's else some irate religious group might get their hands on it.

[sdabbs65]

So if I understand this right, once I do not want to play anymore, I'm required to return the discs I bought to Sony?.....

They probably didn't really want us to have those files on those CD's we BOUGHT and would like them back. Anyone have a mailing address?

I mean, we don't really own those CD's, we just paid 29.99 for an invisible account key and that was it. I think we should all send back the CD's else some irate religious group might get their hands on it.

Some things are not what they seem.
you actually leased the game and never really owned the game.
and also agree to sell you soul when you click yes to the EULA.
the disc are just to charge you 50 bucks more to borrow there software.
under there terms and conditions.

[thorndruid]

I think the idea of liscencing means like getting a liscence for driving a car. You can drive a car, but by accepting the license you accept the rules that go along with it..Stopping at lights and stop signs, signalling etc. You can break those rules but if your caught u can have your liscence taken away and you can't drive. Every piece of software has a liscence even open source and freeware. I may have used lease a little to literally..because with a lease, it expires and you can renew and keep the land/car etc or return it to the dealer. What i see is you own the cds that you buy from sony but liscence the software that is on them. Sony doesn't care who's cd you use to install eq, as long as you have your liscence key. By entering your liscence key and hitting i agree on live you are bound by their rules and regulations. Its just like borrowing a friends car, and he has a set of rules on how to run his car, you dissobey those rules and he gets very pissed if you screw his car up. This whole arguement is based on laws and regulations I am not toally familiar with, and it seems everything is in the grey area, all i know is sony has the clout to what they want. I think scorps site was tageted because (no offence to scorp), the he had donations and a online store with shirts and caps, and sony thought he was making a profit from their product. I don't think they cared about the server. As mattmeck said they just sent the warning for the website. (Unless things have changed?)

[Firedancer]

I would be willing to sell the server....

200+ populated zones
custom zones
player accounts
player characters
custom items
custom code (including the source)
quests
custom spells

wonder what it would be worth....

I aquired the server this week and it is up as Dedicated Server in test phase. It should be live by this weekend. (ETA October 2nd or so at the latest with Scorp database and S2k brought down).

http://eqemulator.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19462 - Read about it here.

[sdabbs65]

I aquired the server this week and it is up as Dedicated Server in test phase. It should be live by this weekend. (ETA October 2nd or so at the latest with Scorp database and S2k brought down).

http://eqemulator.net/forums/showthread.php?t=19462 - Read about it here.

Yeah so did I ....
I didnt want his players tho you can have them...
only thing is he never gave me the source I paid for and expects me to beg for the rest...notgoing to happen.
I had 15 other people that wanted his server
sitting in IRC one night.
so he lost out cuz I sold them the 6.0 package that I have with
250 zones populated.
more Quest.
and his custom zones.
I was going to give him some of the sales but he screwed me out of the source. so I said screw it and kept them for myself.
My players bought it...Did yours ? I bet not.

[Woodlife Treestrider]

"3. "Do not reverse-engineer this product."
Some EULA terms harm people who want to customize their technology, as well as inventors who want to create new products that work with the technology they've bought. "Reverse-engineering," which is often forbidden in EULAs, is a term for taking a machine or piece of software apart in order to see how it works. This kind of tinkering is explicitly permitted by federal law

[Firedancer]

Yeah so did I ....
I didnt want his players tho you can have them...
only thing is he never gave me the source I paid for and expects me to beg for the rest...notgoing to happen.
I had 15 other people that wanted his server
sitting in IRC one night.
so he lost out cuz I sold them the 6.0 package that I have with
250 zones populated.
more Quest.
and his custom zones.
I was going to give him some of the sales but he screwed me out of the source. so I said screw it and kept them for myself.
My players bought it...Did yours ? I bet not.

If you talk to scorpious he is not holding back the source from anyone as far as I know. If you just ask he will most likely not leave you with a database and something you cant customize. That was never the plan as far as I know. Sounds like a misunderstanding that you obviously dont have patience for. Sorry to hear you feel you got a bad deal. But if you have chosen to jump to flaming scorpious he may not be too happy you are trying to make him look bad here.

Its not my fight though. I wish you the best.

[sdabbs65]

If you talk to scorpious he is not holding back the source from anyone as far as I know. If you just ask he will most likely not leave you with a database and something you cant customize. That was never the plan as far as I know. Sounds like a misunderstanding that you obviously dont have patience for. Sorry to hear you feel you got a bad deal. But if you have chosen to jump to flaming scorpious he may not be too happy you are trying to make him look bad here.

Its not my fight though. I wish you the best.

I'm not wanting to flame anyone as that was not my intention.
He did come back 5 days later with the rest of the package so maybe it was just him being slow to get it all pack up for distro.
If it sounded like a flame I apologize to Scorp .

[tsord]

I simply want to point out to the previous post that the EULA does NOT violate the anti-trust clause thingy. IF everquest was the ONLY MMORPG on the market it would. However it is not, and in no way does the EULA prevent other people from making there own MMORPG program to own, mantain, and run and does therefore not attempt to monopolize the market.

[Sakrateri]

the real funny thing about all this is Who is running the Login Server for the Servers you guys paid for from Scorp?? Last I heard Scorp was running that himself or did he also give you guys teh Login Server with that sale? If he is still running the Login then yall may want to take it easy on pissing him off as without that Login all you have is a nice single player game , Well unless you set it up lan and play with some family . LoL

[sdabbs65]

the real funny thing about all this is Who is running the Login Server for the Servers you guys paid for from Scorp?? Last I heard Scorp was running that himself or did he also give you guys teh Login Server with that sale? If he is still running the Login then yall may want to take it easy on pissing him off as without that Login all you have is a nice single player game , Well unless you set it up lan and play with some family . LoL

You are Misinformed and heard wrong.


www.getaclue.net (http://www.getaclue.net/).

[cavedude]

This thread should really be deleted before Sony sees it.

[_Kerosh_]

lol.

Hey, I've been thinking a bit about this. What Sony is doing really isn't illegal is it. According to the Copyright, we are only doing something bad if we take what they do and sell it, but we are doing this all for free and such. However, it is their work. What if you made something you like and you find an organization taking your work and changing it, getting rid of customers and so on. Wouldn't you want to stop that? I think those are the terms Sony are thinking under. People might be getting threatened about losing jobs if they don't put a stop to this, so I think a lot of employees are working together to first stop the largest servers (which is why it takes them awhile before another server is shut down), and then stop the smaller servers. They can't go the the actual eqemulator, only the work produced from it. The eqemulator does not actually make the servers, the people do, and this is just a form of communication between everyone on there, so they wouldn't want to take this out. However, they are trying to take all the largest servers out. I don't even know if they will bother with smaller servers. Only servers with 100-200+ people on it are in jeopardy because those are the ones that harm sony a little bit... So if you have maybe 50 players on your server, Sony won't really bother with you. The work and effort they put into shutting down a server is too great to be bothered with those.

Perhaps we should do what EverQuest does then? Have multiple servers up for the same *server*, splitting it up into maybe groups of 20, and then perhaps have a database linking them all up that will allow people to move from server to server. Not sure how that will work, but it will make them think that they are all small servers instead of one large one? Just as long as we keep our mouthes shut about it and only discuss it in IRC or something, and we treat them like multiple servers on the forums.

[Belfedia]

Perhaps we should do what EverQuest does then? Have multiple servers up for the same *server*, splitting it up into maybe groups of 20, and then perhaps have a database linking them all up that will allow people to move from server to server. Not sure how that will work, but it will make them think that they are all small servers instead of one large one? Just as long as we keep our mouthes shut about it and only discuss it in IRC or something, and we treat them like multiple servers on the forums.

I like this idea but i think it was very hard to make that :(