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Angelox
12-29-2006, 12:50 AM
You see, we have a big problem here; No standard database to build on. We got EQ, which was Cavedudes contribution as a database for everyone to use - then we got PEQ, which is sort of a database that everyone has a "limited" access. then we got mine, which I started because no one would post public updates to their work. basically I'm a "one man band" - you know, harmonica in the mouth, bass drum in-between my legs, etc. , when it comes to database building -
What is the point here? are we going to continue with our personal "agendas" tell we get tired and quit, basically leave EqEmu with out a good. solid PUBLIC database for another year, or are we going to make some changes?
Why don't we get together, merge everything we have and start from there? I haven't went over to anybody's project, simply because I have done way too much work, not just packet spawning, but long, pain-in-the ass work, that should not have to be done over again by me or anyone else.
If someone offered to merge it (AX_PEQ) into a public database, together with all the other db that would accept updates and post regular db updates, then I would go for that.
The EqEmu source has a system that works pretty well, even with the few Devs atm. I can't understand why the MySql database doesn't?
I know we have people in this forum right now that are interested in this.

John Adams
12-29-2006, 01:47 AM
Angelox, while your efforts are monumental compared to most, I have to disagree that no one else offers any input to "the public database(s)". Yes, there are 3+ databases floating around. Cavedude (I thought) abandoned his-own-private-works for PEQ, so that sorta combines 2 efforts into one. ax_peq has been blessed as an official database (something you should be very proud of!) in the installer package. Aside from raw PEQ and ax_peq, anyone elses "private" work is their own, really. Doesn't mean it fits into the PEQ philosophies.

And I know for a fact many people (including myself) post SQL updates to zones, doors, etc... many code and quest fixes/additions.

I feel the community is living and breathing well. It may feel like a burden to you to carry an entire database on your own shoulders, but you also admittedly have lots of spare time - most of us do not. :) Plus, this makes you a celebrity! Can I have an autographed picture of your avatar pls? :D :D

I (personally) do what I can here, mostly helping others with info if I know the answer. I hope to do more, but time is limited. And I don't know C++ so well. Maybe someday.

Zengez
12-31-2006, 04:59 PM
I dunno, I kind of agree with Angelox here, Which is why I wanted to institute something along the lines of a wiki style database server... which was laughed out of hand and dismissed, oh well.

But I think what Angelox is more aiming toward isn't the fixes and patches and items that are addressed as a community things (i.e. doors, quests, and zone lines) but rather the raw and pain in the ass spawning of a ton of mobs throughout all the zones that aren't being touched. I know Angelox is ALSO talking about doors and zonelines etc, and that shouldn't be by any means overlooked as without them it doesn't really matter too much if stuff is spawned correctly, but at the same time being able to zone into an empty zone isn't much of an accomplishment either.

Seems to me the problem is that people are going one of two routes;

One: This is an Emulator, and as such, should be open to customization and so it doesn't matter if we aren't spawning things similiar to live, as that isn't the point,

Two: We don't even have all the stuff that we have 'done' finished, so lets finish that and fine tune it before we move on.

My response to these are as follows;

One: Very true, and a perfectly good point, if you just want to build your own world, litterally, custom tailor your own spawns and zones, great, and good luck, you needn't care any further. (this is arguable, but I'm tired and I'll leave that to someone else)

Two: Also a good point, but as has been said so very many times, this isn't live, this is an emulator. As such it will nearly be impossible to make zones exactly the same. Even if we got everything spawned as perfectly as possible, a bunch of other things are still broken. More importantly, I'd argue (in my currently limited capacity) that having most all the zones 90% spawned is far better than having 20% of the zones 100% spawned. Most of the spawn work is not terribly difficult at all, just mass production of static and/or basic roaming mobs. The other 10% is the quest triggers, named spawns, and special loot stuff that takes actual knowledge of the spawning system and time to dedicate to correctly crafting, and as a result might be beyond the abilities of a large portion of basic admins and spawners.

But, here is my issue with this, I simply don't know the stats of the mobs.
Sure, I could go about spawning mobs and probably getting the pathing right, and I'd have a bunch of lvl 1 mobs with 10 hit points and no damage wandering around the countless zones as glorified placeholders for whatever they should be. I've even re-activated my account in live to try and gather some data to get better info on spawns, but that will still take far too much effort than what it's worth, since at most I get some very rough damage stats and some equally inaccurate hit point guestimates.

So, Thats why I think something that may be a good start would be for people with true massive population experience to type up a thread on how they decide stats for mobs. Things like what really goes into the max damage in a mob, will their strength matter? or is it entirely off the 'maxdmg' stat? how many hitpoints do mobs tend to have by level and expansion? dmg? special abilities? etc etc...

Finally, perhaps a semi-public server if wiki is such a terrible idea, where we have a select few that are allowed to log into a 24/7 server and spawn as they desire to ballpark a full pop of every zone in as short a time period as possible, even if the mobs aren't quite right, or some zones are only half spawned, it's better than nothing. I myself stopped truely exploring expansion zones since PoP so my experience is limited, especially since I never did any Raiding, so there isn't much for me to go on, but I'm sure others have. If this were done then more serious database developers like Angelox and the PEQ team would merely have to make (hopefully) minor edits, some tweaks, and some crafting of quest mobs and whatnot, and the database could grow and develope much easier since the bulk work would be more or less completed.

Anyways, thats my 2 cents, perhaps it will spike some debate and get somewhere /shrug

EDIT:: As a clarification, that semi-private server would just be a database breeding ground, the updates would be made public and everything would thus would be for the good of the community.

rojadruid
12-31-2006, 06:13 PM
On a personal note I plan to try to quit smoking.

CrabClaw
12-31-2006, 10:34 PM
Resolution #1: to help write as many quests as I can, now that I have learned a simple knowledge of *.pl quest coding (I helped I did know Java).

Resolution #2: Don't make resolutions(hehe - joking).

Yes! By all means! You have to accept you can never be 100% live like. So it is far batter to have more zones well spawned, and organized to be playable then being by the book about things. Besides it opens the door to make some improvements to things as well (EQ-Live still has a ton of unfinished stuff and broken quests). Even on Live they re-shuffled and re-did zones so all the old world content (Freeport, Oasis, Commonlands, Nek, and the like. Even the PoN was re-balanced back in just-pre-OoW days), and is really open for reinterpretation. So I say make the old zones a good inspired-by-live play re-do, and give yourself some license for creative additions (more modern drops and updated quests, new Nameds and such).

Oh and by the way,

Happy new Year!

John Adams
01-01-2007, 11:01 AM
What I'd like to see for EQEmu'2007:
-- Drive a stake in the ground and name a new "stable" build. I propose focused, organized testing by the Emulator community players and admins. There are test plans posted in the Wiki (which are in dire need of updating), everyone should take a chunk and go to town, report bugs, get them fixed. If a dev or two knows that for a month, community members will be posting details on specific bugs, maybe they will offer their time to help stablize the code.

-- Wikiwakkawoo my gods, please start updating the Wiki! This is my personal resolution, because this is absolutely something any of us are capable of doing. If we see posted info that might help others, let's start adding it to the wiki. We've preached it, now let's do it.

-- Bring the spawns for newer zone layouts up to Titanium standards. If you are going to say "Titanium only", the data should support that client, not just 6.2. Renaming lavastorm.eqg is not moving forward, nor supporting the only "legal" client for this emulator.

-- A repository for fixes that isn't a VBulletin code tag! If we make Diffs, I'd like to see a file upload area where we can stick these raw snippets of text. A forum is no place to paste code fixes. Many people have pointed links back to their own shares, but those go inactive almost as quickly as they appear. History lost. This goes for databases, too. God forbid, what if Angelox or GeorgeS got pissed off and closed their sites? A year from now, we'd be begging someone to post their database or tools from the archives. :)

-- Quest Helpers. So much effort is being put into making quests more stable, add missing ones, or create custom ones to aid lower population servers. I'd like to see more dev help (or maybe a nice tutorial how to add functionality to the questmgr) so quest writers lives will be easier. While the current system works quite well, there are some things you simply cannot do... yet. Also, finding someone dedicated to incorporating all this quest work into an official package would ensure 1) acknowledgement and 2) preservation of effort. The PEQ /quests site is perfect for this, but seems understaffed (?)

-- More awareness that community input IS acknowledged. It seems there is this cloud that pops up once in a while, members posting that no one but a small handful do anything. If you shovel through the archives over the past 3 years, it would become evident how many people offer their time, expertise, and solutions, but vanish after burnout or feeling ignored. People contribute here, daily. It's time we notice that and be happy it's as good as it is. However...

-- And finally, to go along with the theme of this thread, more community members who CAN code, helping with the base effort and not just their own server(s). Customizing is great, but if you fix a core bug while customizing your server, please share the core fix it so this project continues to move forward. Like Boats. How many times has this been fixed, then re-broken? :)

Ok, flame away. And yes, Mattmeck - I volunteer to do EVERYTHING myself ~yawn~ ;)

sfisque
01-01-2007, 11:19 AM
Fix or find a work-around for bind-zone-disconnect-on-death bug

This one irritates me to no end. i've poured through the code for days on end, down several dead ends and finally back to start. i'll get it sooner or later.


Split the database imports

The database imports need to be split into specific tables so that people can "update" or "diff" specific sections if they have custom mods they do not want to whack. a good example, importing the faction fixes from wildcardx would be great without having to whack the entire database.

== sfisque

Angelox
01-01-2007, 01:57 PM
I didn't mean to harp on anyone here with my post. I know a lot of you all out there are doing what you can, and have helped me out a lot. I really appreciate that.

ArChron
01-02-2007, 06:20 AM
New Years Resolutions?

Get off my butt and finally put together the Rails project that has been stewing around in my head since I found EQEmu, and wanted to figure out the database.

I use MySQL 5, and have a few trivial items constructed to help make sense of the DB... like adding a classes table and a races table so that I can see real names of values in a query...


USE `ax_peq`;
CREATE TABLE `ax_peq`.`classes` (
`class_id` INTEGER UNSIGNED NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT COMMENT 'ID',
`class_name` CHAR(30) DEFAULT 'Un-named' COMMENT 'Class Name',
PRIMARY KEY(`class_id`)
)
ENGINE = MYISAM;

USE `ax_peq`;
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES ( 1, 'Warrior');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES ( 2, 'Cleric');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES ( 3, 'Paladin');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES ( 4, 'Ranger');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES ( 5, 'Shadow Knight');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES ( 6, 'Druid');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES ( 7, 'Monk');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES ( 8, 'Bard');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES ( 9, 'Rogue');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (10, 'Shaman');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (11, 'Necromancer');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (12, 'Wizard');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (13, 'Magician');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (14, 'Enchanter');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (15, 'Beastlord');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (16, 'Berserker');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (20, 'GM Warrior');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (21, 'GM Cleric');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (22, 'GM Paladin');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (23, 'GM Ranger');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (24, 'GM Shadow Knight');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (25, 'GM Druid');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (26, 'GM Monk');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (27, 'GM Bard');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (28, 'GM Rogue');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (29, 'GM Shaman');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (30, 'GM Necromancer');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (31, 'GM Wizard');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (32, 'GM Magician');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (33, 'GM Enchanter');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (34, 'GM Beastlord');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (35, 'GM Berserker');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (40, 'Banker');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (41, 'Shopkeeper');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (60, 'Adventure Recruiter');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (61, 'Adventure Merchant');
INSERT INTO `classes` (`class_id`,`class_name`) VALUES (63, 'Tribute Master');

and you can create some views out of SELECTs that are useful as well...



SELECT s.id, s.race, r.race_desc, s.class, c.class_name, s.zoneid,
z.long_name, s.itemid, i.Name, i.filename FROM starting_items s
INNER JOIN classes c ON s.class=c.class_id
INNER JOIN races r ON s.race=r.race_id
INNER JOIN items i ON s.itemid=i.id
INNER JOIN zone z ON s.zoneid=z.zoneidnumber
ORDER BY s.race, s.class;

and

SELECT l.id, l.name, e.item_id, i.Name AS itemName, e.chance FROM lootdrop l
INNER JOIN lootdrop_entries e ON l.id=e.lootdrop_id
INNER JOIN items i ON e.item_id=i.id
ORDER BY l.id;



I can build stuff as I have time, but there's a fairly steep curve for the database, so it's largely hunt and peck thus far.

ArChron
01-02-2007, 06:24 AM
Here's half of the the races table, which made the last post too long to, well, post, so combine this code segment with the next code segment for the full SQL.



USE `ax_peq`;
CREATE TABLE `races` (
`race_id` INTEGER NOT NULL COMMENT 'ID',
`race_desc` CHAR(60) NOT NULL DEFAULT 'Un-named' COMMENT 'Description',
PRIMARY KEY(`race_id`)
)
ENGINE = MYISAM;

INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (0,'Soldier')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (1,'Human')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (2,'Barbarian')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (3,'Erudite')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (4,'Wood Elf')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (5,'High Elf')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (6,'Dark Elf')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (7,'Half Elf')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (8,'Dwarf')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (9,'Troll')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (10,'Ogre')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (11,'Halfling')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (12,'Gnome')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (13,'Aviak')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (14,'Were Wolf')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (15,'Brownie')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (16,'Centaur')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (17,'Golem')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (18,'Giant / Cyclops')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (19,'Trakenon')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (20,'Doppleganger')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (21,'Evil Eye')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (22,'Beetle')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (23,'Kerra')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (24,'Fish')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (25,'Fairy')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (26,'Froglok')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (27,'Froglok Ghoul')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (28,'Fungusman')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (29,'Gargoyle')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (30,'Gasbag')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (31,'Gelatinous Cube')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (32,'Ghost')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (33,'Ghoul')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (34,'Giant Bat')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (35,'Giant Eel')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (36,'Giant Rat')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (37,'Giant Snake')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (38,'Giant Spider')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (39,'Gnoll')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (40,'Goblin')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (41,'Gorilla')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (42,'Wolf')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (43,'Bear')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (44,'Freeport Guards')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (45,'Demi Lich')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (46,'Imp')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (47,'Griffin')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (48,'Kobold')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (49,'Lava Dragon')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (50,'Lion');
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (51,'Lizard Man')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (52,'Mimic')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (53,'Minotaur')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (54,'Orc')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (55,'Human Beggar')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (56,'Pixie')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (57,'Dracnid')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (58,'Solusek Ro')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (59,'Bloodgills')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (60,'Skeleton')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (61,'Shark')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (62,'Tunare')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (63,'Tiger')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (64,'Treant')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (65,'Vampire')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (66,'Rallos Zek')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (67,'Highpass Citizen')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (68,'Tentacle')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (69,'Will O Wisp')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (70,'Zombie')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (71,'Qeynos Citizen')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (72,'Ship')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (73,'Launch')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (74,'Piranha')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (75,'Elemental')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (76,'Puma')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (77,'Neriak Citizen')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (78,'Erudite Citizen')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (79,'Bixie')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (80,'Reanimated Hand')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (81,'Rivervale Citizen')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (82,'Scarecrow')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (83,'Skunk')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (84,'Snake Elemental')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (85,'Spectre')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (86,'Sphinx')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (87,'Armadillo')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (88,'Clockwork Gnome')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (89,'Drake')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (90,'Halas Citizen')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (91,'Alligator')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (92,'Grobb Citizen')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (93,'Oggok Citizen')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (94,'Kaladim Citizen')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (95,'Cazic Thule')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (96,'Cockatrice')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (97,'Daisy Man')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (98,'Elf Vampire')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (99,'Denizen')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (100,'Dervish');
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (101,'Efreeti')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (102,'Froglok Tadpole')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (103,'Kedge')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (104,'Leech')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (105,'Swordfish')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (106,'Felguard')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (107,'Mammoth')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (108,'Eye of Zomm')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (109,'Wasp')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (110,'Mermaid')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (111,'Harpie')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (112,'Fayguard')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (113,'Drixie')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (114,'Ghost Ship')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (115,'Clam')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (116,'Sea Horse')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (117,'Ghost Dwarf')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (118,'Erudite Ghost')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (119,'Sabertooth Cat')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (120,'Wolf Elemental')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (121,'Gorgon')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (122,'Dragon Skeleton')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (123,'Innoruuk')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (124,'Unicorn')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (125,'Pegasus')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (126,'Djinn')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (127,'Invisible Man')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (128,'Iksar')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (129,'Scorpion')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (130,'Vah Shir')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (131,'Sarnak')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (132,'Draglock')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (133,'Lycanthrope')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (134,'Mosquito')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (135,'Rhino')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (136,'Xalgoz')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (137,'Kunark Goblin')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (138,'Yeti')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (139,'Iksar Citizen')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (140,'Forest Giant')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (141,'Boat')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (142,'Nearest Doodad (Rock, torch, rug, etc.) in sight.')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (143,'Nearest Tree in sight.')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (144,'Burynai')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (145,'Goo')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (146,'Spectral Sarnak')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (147,'Spectral Iksar')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (148,'Kunark Fish')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (149,'Iksar Scorpion')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (150,'Erollisi');
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (151,'Tribunal')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (152,'Bertoxxulous')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (153,'Bristlebane')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (154,'Fay Drake')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (155,'Sarnak Skeleton')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (156,'Ratman')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (157,'Wyvern')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (158,'Wurm')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (159,'Devourer')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (160,'Iksar Golem')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (161,'Iksar Skeleton')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (162,'Man Eating Plant')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (163,'Raptor')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (164,'Sarnak Golem')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (165,'Water Dragon')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (166,'Iksar Hand')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (167,'Succulent')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (168,'Flying Monkey')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (169,'Brontotherium')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (170,'Snow Dervish')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (171,'Dire Wolf')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (172,'Manticore')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (173,'Totem')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (174,'Cold Spectre')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (175,'Enchanted Armor')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (176,'Snow Bunny')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (177,'Walrus')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (178,'Rock-gem Men')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (181,'Yak Man')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (182,'Faun')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (183,'Coldain')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (184,'Velious Dragons')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (185,'Hag')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (186,'Hippogriff')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (187,'Siren')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (188,'Frost Giant')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (189,'Storm Giant')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (190,'Ottermen')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (191,'Walrus Man')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (192,'Clockwork Dragon')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (193,'Abhorent')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (194,'Sea Turtle')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (195,'Black and White Dragons')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (196,'Ghost Dragon')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (197,'Ronnie Test')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (198,'Prismatic Dragon')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (199,'ShikNar')


There are more efficient ways to write these big data INSERTs, but this is eminently more editable for my likes...

ArChron
01-02-2007, 06:25 AM
And here's the third half...



INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (200,'Rockhopper');
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (201,'Underbulk')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (202,'Grimling')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (203,'Vacuum Worm')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (204,'Evan Test')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (205,'Kahli Shah')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (206,'Owlbear')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (207,'Rhino Beetle,')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (208,'Vampyre')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (209,'Earth Elemental')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (210,'Air Elemental')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (211,'Water Elemental')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (212,'Fire Elemental')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (213,'Wetfang Minnow')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (214,'Thought Horror')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (215,'Tegi')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (216,'Horse')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (217,'Shissar')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (218,'Fungal Fiend')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (219,'Vampire Volatalis')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (220,'StoneGrabber')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (221,'Scarlet Cheetah')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (222,'Zelniak')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (223,'Lightcrawler')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (224,'Shade')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (225,'Sunflower')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (226,'Sun Revenant')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (227,'Shrieker')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (228,'Galorian')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (229,'Netherbian')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (230,'Akheva')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (231,'Spire Spirit')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (232,'Sonic Wolf')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (233,'Ground Shaker')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (234,'Vah Shir Skeleton')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (235,'Mutant Humanoid')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (236,'Seru')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (237,'Recuso')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (238,'Vah Shir King')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (239,'Vah Shir Guard')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (240,'Teleport Man')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (241,'Lujein')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (242,'Naiad')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (243,'Nymph')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (244,'Ent')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (245,'Wrinnfly')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (246,'Tarew Marr')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (247,'Solusek Ro')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (248,'Clockwork Golem')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (249,'Clockwork Brain')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (250,'Spectral Banshee');
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (251,'Guard of Justice')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (252,'PoM Castle')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (253,'Disease Boss')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (254,'Solusek Ro Guard')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (255,'Bertoxxulous')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (256,'New Tribunal')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (257,'Terris Thule')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (258,'Vegerog')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (259,'Crocodile')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (260,'Bat')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (261,'Slarghilug')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (262,'Tranquilion')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (263,'Tin Soldier')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (264,'Nightmare Wraith')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (265,'Malarian')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (266,'Knight of Pestilence')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (267,'Lepertoloth')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (268,'Bubonian Boss')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (269,'Bubonian Underling')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (270,'Pusling')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (271,'Water Mephit')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (272,'Stormrider')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (273,'Junk Beast')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (274,'Broken Clockwork')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (275,'Giant Clockwork')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (276,'Clockwork Beetle')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (277,'Nightmare Goblin')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (278,'Karana')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (279,'Blood Raven')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (280,'Nightmare Gargoyle')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (281,'Mouths of Insanity')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (282,'Skeletal Horse')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (283,'Saryn')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (284,'Fennin Ro')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (285,'Tormentor')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (286,'Necromancer Priest')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (287,'Nightmare')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (288,'New Rallos Zek')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (289,'Tallon Zek')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (290,'Vallon Zek')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (291,'Air Mephit')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (292,'Earth Mephit')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (293,'Fire Mephit')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (294,'Nightmare Mephit')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (295,'Zebuxoruk')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (296,'Mithaniel Marr')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (297,'Knightmare Rider')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (298,'The Rathe')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (299,'Xegony')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (300,'Balrog');
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (301,'Unknown')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (302,'Lobster Monster')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (303,'Pheonix')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (304,'Tiamat')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (305,'Bear (new)')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (306,'Earth Golem')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (307,'Iron Golem')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (308,'Storm Golem')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (309,'Air Golem')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (310,'Wood Golem')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (311,'Fire Golem')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (312,'Water Golem')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (313,'Veiled Gargoyle')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (314,'Lynx')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (315,'Squid')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (316,'Frog')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (317,'Flying Serpent')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (318,'Tactics Soldier')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (319,'Armored Boar')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (320,'Djinni')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (321,'Boar')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (322,'Knight of Marr')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (323,'Black Armor')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (324,'Knightmare Knight')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (325,'Rallos Ogre')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (326,'Arachnid')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (327,'Crystal Arachnid')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (328,'Tower Model')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (330,'Froglok(LoY)')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (335,'Troll Pirate')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (336,'Troll Shaman?')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (337,'Troll Pirate #2')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (345,'Luggald')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (346,'Armored Luggald')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (347,'Robed Luggald')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (348,'Drogmor')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (349,'Froglok Skeleton')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (350,'Froglok Zombie')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (353,'Unarmored DnD-Style Kobold?')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (354,'Lightly Armored DnD-Style Kobold?')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (355,'Heavily Armored DnD-Style Kobold?')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (356,'Scaled Wolf (Neutral Gender)')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (357,'Undead Drogmor')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (365,'Valdoon Kel`Novar')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (367,'New Skeleton Model')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (372,'Evil Whirlwind')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (378,'Treasure Chest')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (379,'Clay Vase')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (381,'Weapons Rack')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (382,'Coffin')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (383,'Skull Mounted on Bone Triangle');
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (384,'Jester')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (387,'Construct')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (388,'Hynid')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (389,'Turepta')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (390,'Cragbeast')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (391,'Mite')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (392,'Ukun')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (393,'Ixt')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (394,'Ikaav')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (395,'Aneuk')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (396,'Kyv')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (397,'Noc')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (398,'Ra`Tuk')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (399,'Tunat muram cuu`Vauax')

ArChron
01-02-2007, 06:26 AM
And the fourth half... I guess that makes two whole posts...

What was that someone said about a forum being the wrong place to store code stuff?



INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (400,'Huvul')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (402,'Mastruq')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (403,'Male Trusik--Lacks Shawl')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (404,'Ship')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (405,'OoW golem type')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (406,'Overlord Mata Muram')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (407,'Lighting warrior models')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (408,'Pirylien fire mob (RSS)')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (410,'Feran')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (411,'Pirylien fire mob (RSS)')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (412,'Chimera')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (413,'Dragorn')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (414,'Murkglider')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (415,'New Rat Model')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (416,'New Bat Model')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (417,'Frost Pyrilien')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (418,'Discordling')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (419,'Girplan')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (420,'Hanvar / arch magus model')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (425,'Crystal Model')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (427,'Large Purse Model')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (430,'New Dracolich')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (431,'Green halo with green smoke')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (432,'DoN regular drake')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (433,'Goblin (DoN model)')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (434,'Dragon-Horse...thing.')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (435,'Lava Dragon')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (436,'Basilisk (new model)')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (437,'East-Asian Gold Dragon (Snake-like)')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (438,'Storm(?) Dragon Model')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (439,'Puma')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (440,'Normal Spider (new model, tutorial, don)')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (441,'Large-abdomen Normal Spider')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (442,'Guardian of the Sands')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (445,'Dragon Egg (from Vishimtar event, etc..)')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (446,'East-Asian Crystal Dragon (Statue?)')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (447,'Smoldering bluish-purple ball (look into this)');
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (448,'Statue, sparkly hands; similar to 442, no anims.')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (449,'Pile of (Spider?) Eggs')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (450,'Lava Spider')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (451,'Large-abdomen Lava Spider')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (452,'Shadow(?) Dragon')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (453,'Burly Ancient-Rome-Looking Warrior')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (454,'werewolf (new model)')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (455,'kobold (new model)')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (456,'Sporali')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (457,'Gnomework')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (458,'New Orc')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (459,'Corathus')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (460,'Coral(?) Model')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (462,'a cocoon')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (464,'gargoyle (new type)')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (465,'witheran')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (467,'Shilskin')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (469,'new evil eye model (same as OoW one)')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (470,'Hanvar looking mob (without axe)')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (472,'mech boar mount model')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (473,'fairy (new model)')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (433,'Goblin, new')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (436,'Basilisk')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (454,'Werewolf')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (455,'Kobold')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (456,'Sporali')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (458,'Orc')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (464,'Gargoyle')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (469,'Evil eye (with teeths and tentacles)')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (470,'Hanvar without axe')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (472,'Mecha boar')
INSERT INTO `races` VALUES (473,'Unknown');

Angelox
01-02-2007, 07:29 AM
Very nice , and needed!
Although you got much more than I ever found, I attached my "data.php" which I've been building on , I already added a bunch of yours, but it also has corrections and a few more "unknowns" added;
http://www.nahunta.org/~angelox/files/data.php.txt

Aerewen
01-03-2007, 06:17 AM
Part of the problem with the lack of a public database is the fact that we don't have a common numbering system for anyone to modify from...

think about it... someone gives you a SQL file that adds say 200 doors to your database that populate pok, abyssmal sea, and say uh shadowhaven as an example... those doors will auto increment their id field so the doors that might be numbered 200-400 on your database might be 500-700 on someone else's

now yeah i know doors dont really matter because the id means nothing really, but think about the npc_types table, the spawngroups spawn2 spawnentry etc etc

we have no default numbering system for those ID's that *DO* matter...

a while back the concept of zonenumber * 1000 was applies to the npc_types table... but it's not consistent. some older zones still have npc's with numbers out of that scope. and the other problem is that we cant do a mass modify script using names extracted from spawn lists because there are a ton of different rat, bat, orc, goblin, giant, etc etc mobs in different zones and i can only hope that they all have different npc_type values in the existing database or we're a lot worse off than i thought we were lol

If we were to take the time to mod the database to a default numbering scheme... then we could start adding to a larger database because we would know that every door, spawngroup, spawn entry, etc etc in the plane of knowledge has an id value between x and y which means that if I make a perfect copy of the live servers' POK i can make 2 SQL files to distribute it.

one does DELETE FROM `blah` WHERE `id` >= 202000 AND `id` < 203000 etc etc

and the other adds my new stuff

reboot and tadaa. but the way it is now... i had to create a new table which was a copy of the npc_types table, then delete 3 rows from it to fit the insert query for the newest pok i found to start working from. then after the inster was done, add those rows back in to make it work with the latest db version, export it all to sql, delete all the npc types entries for pok, delete all the spawn groups etc etc etc, then reinsert my sql file into npc types with all the new values for the merchantlists etc.

difference? took me about 3 hours to source it in, VS about 5 minutes if we had a global setup for the database that everyone used.

im a php/mysql programmer so im actually working on a php system that will go through and revamp my entire database using a numbering scheme of 1000*zoneid on auto increment.

so far the past couple attempts have screwed up loot, merchants, pets, spells etc... so it's still a work in progress, but once i have it finished i will release the new database, not the utility.

if i put out the utility then everyone who has their own custom database work will just use it to mod their db and continue to mooch our releases without any contributions of their own. but by releasing the database only we force them to conform if they want to use our db updates :p

CrabClaw
01-03-2007, 07:03 AM
The above example reminds me of what they did when Total Annihilation (a little RTS game with robots) modding was popular. The database was open ended on IDs but to avoid overwriting each other's work they agreed upon ranges of data IDs for each mod out there. So the basic live-like data went from 1 to X and then in blocks of 1000's people reserved space for custom content.

But, over my years watching and trying to contribute what I can to this project, I can say it's like having a overloaded garage full of content with no one really wanting to dig and clean it. But yes there is redundancy in the npc_types database there are 14 same level Snow Dervishes, and 17 'a stonegazer cockatrice''s, when there should only be two stonegazer cockatrices (a level 33-35-ish for the OT, and a level 37-40-ish for the DL and TT).

It is doable bite by byte though.

*looks at his garage*

*hides*

eq4me
01-03-2007, 07:30 AM
The big problem is that some of the tables that need to be loaded into shared memory are memory hogs. Right now you just cant space IDs out for further addons without wasting huge ammounts of Memory.

More discussion is here:
http://www.eqemulator.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21830&page=1&pp=15
and here:
http://www.eqemulator.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21466

Angelox: Since PEQ picked up tremendous speed in the last few weeks did you consider joining up with em? I am pretty sure the rigid policies of the last Maintainer are somewhat loosened and the guys from PEQ might be happy to implement many of your additions and corrections. They may stop at purely handspawned zones though. Provided that PEQ Database releases will be more frequent i am sure this would prevent alot of double work as both you and the PEQ Team are prone to fix the same bugs, just look the bug submissions and resolves on the PEQ board ...

Well, back to lurking for now.

Angelox
01-03-2007, 08:38 AM
The big problem is that some of the tables that need to be loaded into shared memory are memory hogs. Right now you just cant space IDs out for further addons without wasting huge ammounts of Memory.

More discussion is here:
http://www.eqemulator.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21830&page=1&pp=15
and here:
http://www.eqemulator.net/forums/showthread.php?t=21466

Angelox: Since PEQ picked up tremendous speed in the last few weeks did you consider joining up with em? I am pretty sure the rigid policies of the last Maintainer are somewhat loosened and the guys from PEQ might be happy to implement many of your additions and corrections. They may stop at purely handspawned zones though. Provided that PEQ Database releases will be more frequent i am sure this would prevent alot of double work as both you and the PEQ Team are prone to fix the same bugs, just look the bug submissions and resolves on the PEQ board ...

Well, back to lurking for now.

Let me re-phrase what I mean, and sum it all up; there is no public database; PEQ database belongs to PEQ server, and the drive is towards the success of the PEQ server, just as is with all the servers at EqEmu. You place a server up, it becomes competitiion, You see, we are not working for each other, we are competing with each other. No hard feelings, it's just the way things works out.
We need to make a database to where the priority is to the database, and not any specific server. Something that is totally accessable by anyone who qualifies, and totatally viewable/downloadble by anyone, anytime, and *no strings attached*.
But this is something I tried for when I first started, and i started posting anything I did with hopes as to start something, it worked somewhat - but there's more to it than that I guess. I suggested we combine what we all have now ( the three database), and they can be combined and optimized, use it to start a new database with a new year. If something is not right, it can be fixed or corrected, but at least we started with everyones work. and it is "public domain".

cavedude
01-03-2007, 09:06 AM
PEQ is not about the server at all. I don't care how popular it is or who likes it or not. I don't deal with players well, and luckily WildcardX is kind enough to do so for me.

The only goal of PEQ is database development, the server is just a testbed for any changes we make. IMHO, running a centralized server for players to login into and catch bugs is the best way to develop a database.

Anybody who wishes to help us out are more than welcome to do so. We can find a job for anybody regardless of knowledge/skill level.

Zengez
01-03-2007, 09:16 AM
I agree with Cavedude, which is why i wanted to start something just like it, but the drawback I knew of to PEQ (haven't really been keeping up a lot lately) was that there were a very very select few in charge of doing any database work, which was good in that you don't have newbins messing everything up, but if those people drop the project/have RL stuff/ get stuck on a project/whatever then the project stalls, and we all look on with frustrated hopes of getting another expansion poped and some of us thinking "Man, I could be helping get stuff done if I were able..." which is exactly why I wanted a truly open server to spawn/test/update/etc... the problem being again the newbins going "Hey! lets make all the giant bats in north Qeynos into mini Cazic Thules!" which then messes up all the hard work we're trying to accomplish.

Solutions? I don't know... perhaps a mass recruition of database editors into a world using the newest databases available to start work... perhaps the best and the brightest move on to PEQ, kind of an 'application' to join PEQ team, thus allowing a larger pool of talented and able people to work on the real database, avoiding the newbins and more importantly getting people in to work on the real database structure that people can use...

As to Angelox's worries about competition, I definitely see where he's coming from, but I don't know if you're going to have a lot of choice if you want to do anything more than just have people post updates and snippets of code every time they finish a half dozen spawns for 'somebody out there' to include into a database that they might then share... /shrug just my thoughts.

And now to eat, hopefully some of that made sense.

EDIT::

Oh yea, as the actual main part I meant to write, The idea of coming up with a cohesive and mandated ID structuring system would be a great idea and a good way to give order to the chaos so that some of us that don't feel like diving into the database for hours at a stretch could do some work occasionally without getting lost in the myriad of mapping ids and tables...

Also, some kind of structure between the loottable id, npc id, and the spawngroup id would be immensely helpful too, but thats for another tangent.

John Adams
01-04-2007, 06:55 AM
@Arewen, the only problem I see with globalizing the zoneid * 1000 are in cases of NPCs, spawns or objects that can appear in more than one zone (bats, rats, orcs, etc). Named or specialized NPCs, sure... but what zone really owns that rat? Or, do we just make 1 rat NPCid per zone that might possibly contain a rat? Heh... rambling starting, I'll quit.

Good ideas tho. I like low numbers, high efficiency. I am rather adept at SQL, so give a PM if you need me to look into anything with you.

Zengez
01-04-2007, 09:36 AM
I dunno, people laugh at the different NPCID for the same rat/bat/orc for different zones, but it seems to be that might be a good idea on a few levels;

For one, the above mentioned regularity and predictability of every zone,

For another; it allows quick and easy manipulation/customization straight on the database for a zone. Say I want to make North Karana 5 lvls higher, I can achieve this without having to figure out which mobs I'm randomly updating lvls in some other random zones like east karana or whatnot. This is obviously a bizaar example but I think the point is made.

Another point, the mobs could be easily refferenced by any number of tools and programs for future effort, imagine being able to pull up and edit lists of mobs by zone, or (if my hinted at ideas were put into place!!) loot type, or spawn type etc etc without ruining half your other zones.

That's my 2 cents.

John Adams
01-05-2007, 05:43 AM
They may stop at purely handspawned zones though.
For the love of God and all that's Holy... this is probably the 5th time I've asked this with no acknowledgement coming back from anyone who might know... eq4me's statement eludes to the fact there might be a way to NOT have to hand-spawn zones. If this is true, please oh PLEASE let the rest of us know. We could do so much more [accurate] work if we still had this capability.

I understand the builders/extractors/etc are not kept up with whatever encryption Live has week after week. But if there is some other way, I'm begging... please let us know.

As an aside, I have SEQ running (and am totally amazed by it, btw) and grabbing collects from any zone I can just to see what it looks like. Most of it is garbled, of course. I cannot read this myself, without knowledge. I'd love to take my new collects and stuff them into a database, even if it were by hand INSERTS of the raw data. I just need to be able to read the packets. PF2Text doesn't seem to be anywhere anymore (at least I cannot find it). Is there any info, at all? SEQ lacks a users guide or walkthrough, so it's nearly impossible to figure out except by trial and error - which is what I've been doing the last week.

Yes, I am stomping my feet. And begging. Please, if there's still a way to benefit from collects, tell us. I'll start now on any zone I have access to.

(btw, this was not @eq4me, his comment just reminded me how ignored this question has gone)

eq4me
01-05-2007, 06:27 AM
Yes, I wanted to hint to this post:

http://www.eqemulator.net/forums/showthread.php?p=126769#post126769

The big question is if someone other than FNW is able to update eqextractor.

Angelox
01-05-2007, 07:13 AM
Yes, I wanted to hint to this post:

http://www.eqemulator.net/forums/showthread.php?p=126769#post126769

The big question is if someone other than FNW is able to update eqextractor.

I will state that it would be crazy IMO to not use collected data to initially spawn a zone. If you ask me, this is the primary reason that PEQs database still exists when so many other (hand spawned) ones do not... people making shit up from memory just dosent work, especially on a large scale, so many intricacies that make the world emmersive are lost. PEQ exists on the foundation of strict controls on modifications, such that somebody who thinks they remember something a certain way does not screw up the database without doing their homework first. This was a very significant problem for the older database
You know, I could say a lot here, but I really don't want to start anything :)
But I will say, that when I first started here, it also was said that merging databases was "very hard", almost impossible", and a "waste of time".
I will also like to say that the database I have been working on for all of you, has "hand spawned " and "merged" zones (you would never know unless I told you).
I am very gratefull to a lot of the Devs and programmers in this forum (for all their help), so I will continue to "bite my tongue" , and delete the rest of what I wanted to say.

Zengez
01-06-2007, 11:29 AM
Just thought I'd mention it, Tried out the packet collector, and found that I could get it to log my zoning just fine, but any actual information in the zone was not logged at all. Tried all the devices and whatnot with no luck.

EDIT::

Apparently the packets don't actually appear in the file until it's done building which is when I zone out... which makes sense now that I think about it, so scratch this, let the collections begin;

PS: Is there a list somewhere of zones needing collecting?

John Adams
01-06-2007, 03:58 PM
PS: Is there a list somewhere of zones needing collecting?
Yes, everything from PoP release to DoDH and beyond, if you're bored. :)

I'm doing the same with SEQ, and getting some cool info in just the text dumps (still not the golden data I am after, but still fun to play with). Let's see if we cannot bring the packet God out of hiding. ;)

cavedude
01-07-2007, 08:33 AM
PEQ actually has most zones our client supports spawned. What we are missing are mainly nightmareb, and most LDoN zones. The rest will be released once we have tweaked things a bit more.

Zengez
01-08-2007, 10:42 AM
PEQ actually has most zones our client supports spawned. What we are missing are mainly nightmareb, and most LDoN zones. The rest will be released once we have tweaked things a bit more.


So essentially unless we can get LDoN groups and/or nightmare b theres little to no point in doing packet collecting since we can't get the useful data from it cause we have no tool and you guys apparently have all you need and we're just waiting on the mysterious tweaking of doomage.... So what can we do to help again? ;)

cavedude
01-09-2007, 06:38 AM
Anything PEQ gets will be released, that's the whole point of the project. The problem is at this point, we don't have any tools that work with live packets either :P

Angelox
01-09-2007, 07:09 AM
You see, we have a big problem here; No standard database to build on. We got EQ, which was Cavedudes contribution as a database for everyone to use - then we got PEQ, which is sort of a database that everyone has a "limited" access. then we got mine, which I started because no one would post public updates to their work. basically I'm a "one man band" - you know, harmonica in the mouth, bass drum in-between my legs, etc. , when it comes to database building -
What is the point here? are we going to continue with our personal "agendas" tell we get tired and quit, basically leave EqEmu with out a good. solid PUBLIC database for another year, or are we going to make some changes?
Why don't we get together, merge everything we have and start from there? I haven't went over to anybody's project, simply because I have done way too much work, not just packet spawning, but long, pain-in-the ass work, that should not have to be done over again by me or anyone else.
If someone offered to merge it (AX_PEQ) into a public database, together with all the other db that would accept updates and post regular db updates, then I would go for that.
The EqEmu source has a system that works pretty well, even with the few Devs atm. I can't understand why the MySql database doesn't?
I know we have people in this forum right now that are interested in this.

Which brings us back to what I originally posted :)
There is no public database , PEQ included. From what I see, this will always remain the same. If PEQ wanted to have their database public, there would be something newer than RC1 out right now.
For the longest time, i was posting every little thing I did, all by myself, all alone - so, if anything else, I proved it can be done. I worked my self sick with this, and became obsessed with this "common" database for everyone. I know that the database is the heart of EqEmu.
All I managed to do, is frustrate myself and provide a lot of good data and ideas for other people's "private" servers. This is all ok, but very few people have come foward and attempted to do work as a "public servant".
Everybody: Please!! Give back some of what you take.

WildcardX
01-09-2007, 07:28 AM
Angelox,

I truly understand your frustrations and in the past you know I have agreed with you, but now that Cavedude, Sesmar and myself have taken over at PEQ, I can promise you that we are doing nothing but a community service with our database efforts and that PEQ is the community database. It is true, we have not gotten around to posting the database for download more frequently, but that is only because we wanted to get all of Luclin completely done (ie bug fixes and I am almost done with Vexthal) + add in all epic 1.0 quests and mobs. We initially planned to have this released around Christmas, but we have been slowed down some by other issues in development.

After we get this last Luclin release done, then we are moving on to PoP/LoY which as Cavedude has said is mostly all popped right now, but there is much work there to be done as far as the details. We are probably looking at a late spring or early summer release for this version of the database as well.

But PEQ is the community database for EQEmu and will work to be more transparent and welcoming of contributions. Right now, most of the help we need are on the quest writing side of our effort.

If anyone here wants to work with us on contributing or fixing Quests, please see Sesmar.

cavedude
01-09-2007, 07:50 AM
There is a newer database out than RC1, the final version of Luclin under FNW was released when I took over. But, releases are kind of besides the point. They are just there so we have something to play on, as I agree with the statement that the database is the heart of emu. (Though, I'm NOT knocking the importance of the code!)

I feel I may have messed up by releasing my database to the public. It caused a sort of split in the community and now instead of having the one dominant database we have 3? different databases and many mangled hybrid variants. Sure, choice is good but when somebody fixes something on one database, that fix may not work on the other 2, if they even need said fix at all. That's the problem here, too many databases not enough contributors. I apologize to the community for opening this pandora's box of sorts.

PEQ is public in that anybody who wishes to join and help may do so, we have a job for anybody with any skill level. There is a leadership structure, sure because some form of quality control and centralization is needed. Imagine if we just opened up a database to anybody to work on as they please? It would be a mess in days! I often incorporate changes I see on the forums into PEQ. Sometimes I have to edit it to be compatible with PEQ or simply because I'd prefer to do it a slightly different way. But my feeling is if somebody contributes, I want to do my best to include it.

Zengez
01-09-2007, 11:27 AM
Well, here's another problem however,

In order to have access to the code we need to meet these 'quality controls' and make sure we're not retarded... ok fair enough, but here's the thing... many of us don't want to go through the long process of 'proving' ourselves and for many of us we do this kinda thing in our spare time with our busy scheduals, so we just don't bother trying to get in the group even though we might be useful...

Still, you can't just let anyone who thinks they're useful mangle the database, so what do you do?

I'd say release a mangled database with everything you have right now in it. Not just the 'fixed' code and the 'perfect spawns' and the 'complete expansions' just release everything. Let the spawns be wrong, in the wrong spots, patrolling wrong, have the wrong stats/no loot/no faction or whatever. Then, people will get it and we'll each gravitate to the zones we hunted in the most, and note the problems. Those of us that know something will fix them and (hopefully) post a thing in the forums about it. That was the PEQ team can skim the forums time to time and pull out the actual intelligent fixes that other people did in their spare time, and ignore the post about inserting cazic thule into ecommons because 'it'd be fun!'. And that way everything gets done much much much faster and PEQ team still controls what goes into the 'official' database and re-releases that periodically with 'fixed' content zone by zone, and the rest of us can play the fixed content + mangled extra zones with the knowledge that said extra zones aren't going to be correct, just rough approximations. I know I'd be fine with that, and it'd give me something to work with instead of wishing i had tools to spawn zones and then finding out that they are already spawned when i'm half way through.

This isn't a rant, it's just frustrating because it's the exact same thing i've been saying since i joined the project some 2+ years ago, you want to control the official database from the newbins, fine, but give us something to work with so we can do exactly that, work with it. if you give us nothing then say prove yourself by finding minute flaws in the zones we've never even been in and/or code in the emu itself, you lose alot of people that might be good at database work that just simply didn't play those certain zones in eq.

Moreover this would still be the same singular database, just make every new release include the fixed zones and the unfixed zones and slowly but surely the unfixed zones will become fixed and we'll have everything up to par.

Also, I'm a tad confused by the afore mentioned 'we have everything we need' to 'we'll update the tools to read the logs when we have enough logs' to 'even our tools don't work' .... do you have everything litterally poped and you just drop those zones for the releases? or do you only have the logs to pop things and you're not making the converter for.... some unknown reason?

Anyways, thats that, for whatever it will accomplish, I'm losing interest in doing database work as I can't seem to get any support to do anything I'm capable of, perhaps I'll just leach like everyone else and play off other people's hard work and let them do everything rather than helping out :(

EDIT::

Having a pretty craptacular day so i think that came off a little more pissy than i meant it, sorry, but I stand by what I said in the terms of theory and practice and what I think would help the situation.

eq4me
01-09-2007, 11:53 AM
Amen Zengez

I can only imagine what pains Angelox had to suffer to handspawn the LoY zones. It is one thing to be thorough and another one to spoon feed the community with the information you want to go out. I really hope the new management of the PEQ database will release regular updates and gives the opportunity to everyone to get regular development snapshots.
My personal project for now is to clean up the Vendor Items list. You wont believe what people sold when the lists where grabbed from life.... It would really help if I would have _one_ database to work with and the assurance that someone other form the PEQ team didnt do that work since the last release.
Yes, there might be reasons for ot impementing all available data into the PEQ database until recently but if that is the case it eludes anyone but the PEQ staff.

Disklaimer: It is late and I am definitely not sober. So if you find my statements overly offensive or full of typos please bear with me. %-}

Edit: Oh, and preventing some Joe Smoe to sabotage the database should be no problem with some appropriate revision control system and an instance that must approve any update/fix to the database. See the Linux Kernel development for example.

Once more: Dont get me wrong. I have really hight hope that the new PEQ Staff will do a great job and we get finally an unified and free(as in beer) database.

bufferofnewbies
01-09-2007, 11:56 AM
a whole lot

Actually, that is a sound idea. It would show new people that the community is alive and well, while also allowing some of 'not so new' ones to actually feel like we are helping. In truth, I feel like most of my work isn't of much use to anyone. But I do what little I can, out of sheer hope that it winds up being useful to someone who turns out to be the next Scorp, cave, or even Matt.

Well, ok.. maybe someone more useful than Matt... /snicker

Wait, wait. Matt, don't hit me again. I was just kidding! Oww oww oww! Not my arm! It just healed!!

mattmeck
01-09-2007, 12:00 PM
My personal feeling behind it are, putting everything out as there doing it will just cause a lot of issues.

It would be good for those that know what there doing and have experience, but what about the other 90% of the users who will need to update everything every few days for fixes?

Add the fact that a lot of people WONT shair what they fix, because thats just how this community it (yes its sad, but...)

But on the other hand, what about those who want to help and can, but dont want to wait?

Its a rough decision and will cause issues no matter whats decided, to allow everyone access wile there working to make the people who want to help happy, and listen to all the bitchinh and complaining about bugs, issues, and problems (oh my!). Or keep the complainers down and offering what they have been and piss the people who want to help off.


I think there needs to be a mid way reached, mayby make it easier for people to help? Mayby hand out the DB to certain people who have been here and have submitted fixes? I donno, but I am glad I dont need to decide.

mattmeck
01-09-2007, 12:03 PM
Matt please sick some hackers on me and Ban me!!1!!one!

naaa, im in a good mood today, maybe tomorow

bufferofnewbies
01-09-2007, 12:24 PM
Viva la resistance!
Matt <3's me.

btw: feel free to ignore me at any time... It's the alcohol talking. :)

Angelox
01-09-2007, 02:22 PM
I think we all are doing fine - I really like Cavedudes database and I don't think I'm alone here, with that statement - this EqEmu project has a life of it's own and there's not much anyone can do to change it.
We've got things like the custom servers, the "historians", and the one who race with live. I think trying to keep up with live people are running out of steam though.
I'm sort of a "historian" type - like things the way they used to be with EQ, so I try to duplicate the "good old times".
But anyways, were do you start if you want to have the same thing Sony has? Everquest is always changing. better just to draw some lines and standarize a few things.
Everybody does real good here, to be honest with you (and myself), i don't see how what I had in mind would ever pan out anyway.
Mr. Cavedude; If it weren't for you and your Installer with your eq database - me or half the people (if not most) , wouldn't be around EqEmu forums right now, discussing all this! Stuff like that is what brought us all here. I sure hope you stay with that installer, because it really is what brings in the new people with the new ideas.

cavedude
01-09-2007, 02:46 PM
Regular public PEQ updates aren't going to happen. The simple fact is most of the community are NOT developers or world builders and need to be led through everything step by step. If this wasn't the case I never would have created the installer. This being what it is, I really don't want to support every db release we put out. And believe me, I will be expected to. Will releases be faster than what we are normally used to? That is one thing I am hoping to accomplish.

Likewise, the database will not be released in its current form. It is not where we want it to be right now and because of the above a mangled database will only flood the forums and my inbox with support requests. We are, however working towards a release. When this will happen I can't tell you. But, our objectives are simple. We want to do some more bug correction in all the zones up to and including Luclin, and we want to get every Epic 1.0 done. Once that happens expect a release and PEQ to begin heavy work on PoP/LoY.

Next, PEQ is going to continue to function as it always has. Meaning, the server will always be up for development. Having a centralized database is the only way to properly develop when we are talking about multiple people. A CVS/SVN style system simply does not work in this situation.

If you wish to help out, come to the PEQ forums. http://projecteq.net/phpBB2/ Browse some of the bugs, if you have fixes, submit them. If you have additions, submit them. When I get time, I promise I will do my best to include them. You don't need database access to do this, especially since the currently released Luclin database will give you a great idea of our ID and table structure. If you wish to have more direct access to the db or become a member of the beta team (access to weekly db dumps) and feel you have the skills necessary then all you have to do is ASK ME. This is something very few people have done so far. I have also asked a few people to join and most times I've been rejected.

To clear things up, nobody on the PEQ team said we have all we need. In fact I mentioned we are missing logs for most of LDoN and for nightmareb. That's a lot of zones! In addition, I have yet to find any working logs for many instanced zones later then LDoN, new bazaar, and nektulos (or middle Nektulos if you play Live I've been told) Secondly, nobody ever said we will update our tools as necessary. We only work on the db and occasionally add a submit to the server core when we need it. No work is done on any db tools by PEQ. We don't have any unreleased tools for db development. What we have, you have and yes our current tools like yours do not work with Live packets, only older log collections.

The PEQ database does have spawns for most of the zones our client supports. The above mentioned zones are exceptions. This just recently occurred. 90% of these zones were a gift from FNW. When he handed PEQ over to me, he sourced all the logs he had into the db so they wouldn't go to waste. Thank him! To avoid any misunderstandings, FNW is still an active member of the EQEmu community, he just prefers to work on the code. The other 10% of the zones came from what I had popped in my database.

To conclude, I feel my method is fair. The best way to help is by dropping changes on the PEQ forums. You don't even need to play on the server, our players are great about leaving bug reports or ideas of what they feel needs to be changed. If more people did this, we'd be able to release what we have faster. I'm never going to tell you what you need to work on either. If you see something that needs work and you feel you can do it, then go for it.

I am open to suggestions. If somebody as any other options, I am willing to listen.

cavedude
01-09-2007, 02:49 PM
Of course I plan on keeping up with the installer! As mush as I enjoy working on the database, I think it's equally as cool to help people new to the community get their server up and running so that when they learn the ropes a bit, they can help out as you have done, Angelox.

John Adams
01-09-2007, 02:53 PM
Zengez, let me analyze your post, because it has many great points in it that I totally disagree with. :D

I'd say release a mangled database with everything you have right now in it. Not just the 'fixed' code and the 'perfect spawns' and the 'complete expansions' just release everything. Let the spawns be wrong, in the wrong spots, patrolling wrong, have the wrong stats/no loot/no faction or whatever.
Sorry Zen, I disagree with this idea 100%. There are probably hundreds of databases just like this out there already... and do you know how much "feedback" we get? Barely any. Ask Angelox - this is his thread for that very reason. If people cared to do so, they would have contributed with PEQ-RC1, fixing OG -> Luclin content. And the PEQ staff is not 100 guys - it's roughly 3, who don't get paid to do this anymore than we do, but carry the great burden of maintaining a set philosophy. Start adding Joe Schmoe's data on a whim, you are right back to random inconsistent data with no one to test and validate, because no one will. No matter how great an idea it seems.

That was the PEQ team can skim the forums time to time and pull out the actual intelligent fixes that other people did in their spare time, and ignore the post about inserting cazic thule into ecommons because 'it'd be fun!'.
This is what we do now, today, without changing a thing. People post bugs, post fixed code, and post wishlist items they'd like to see. The "powers that be" pick those items that are intelligible, are well conceived, and will benefit the entire community, and incorporate those fixes into the next build. How is what you're asking for any different?

I know I'd be fine with that, and it'd give me something to work with instead of wishing i had tools to spawn zones and then finding out that they are already spawned when i'm half way through.
This is about all I agree with. If there is one man alive on this planet earth that knows how to modify the collector/extractor/builder, I implore - beg - grovel (but I won't send cash) him to teach someone else how to do it. I know it's difficult, or it would be done on a whim. But it's not brain surgery. Even I could learn how to walk packets and look for strings. Yeah it's more than that, but the point being, we strongly require a knowledge transfer in this area. PEQ may be rumbling around Luclin, but random_admin01 may wish to work on GoD - and HIS data will be golden, not hand spawned or something the core guys just don't trust.

This isn't a rant, it's just frustrating because it's the exact same thing i've been saying since i joined the project some 2+ years ago, you want to control the official database from the newbins, fine, but give us something to work with so we can do exactly that, work with it. if you give us nothing then say prove yourself by finding minute flaws in the zones we've never even been in and/or code in the emu itself, you lose alot of people that might be good at database work that just simply didn't play those certain zones in eq.
Dude. This is sooo a rant. :D You have that power __right now__ to find flaws in the database and submit them to PEQ Database Bugs for integration. I really do not see what you are asking for, for 2+ years... (except the tools part heh)

Having a pretty craptacular day
Please don't take my quoting only you as a direct attack towards only you. I do sympathize with what you're saying, but I sincerely feel we have everything you are looking for right this moment, only you want a database.sql file with todays date on it. And I just don't see how that's any different than working with the latest release. Same goes for the code.

I'm done. Sorry if I tweaked any nipples.

mwmdragon
01-09-2007, 05:31 PM
Ok, here goes.

Angelox, Cavedude, PEQ = Choice... but

I think we should conglomerate the 3 databases. And this is how I suggest it gets done ;) (Read the word "Suggest" a few times to make sure you saw it there :P


1. Start with a blank Database (All the base tables ect)

2. Start with one Table and use a nice viewer like MySQL Front to compare the info... copy or export the info needed from each database and compile it into a sql file. Continue this until you have gone threw every table. It may take a long time but if you get different person to do a different table then it will go faster.

3. After this is done source all the .sql files you have into the clean database.

4. Now setup a forum that has a public area and a private area. Public so everyone can submit fixes. Private so you can copy and paste fix code from the poublic area as needed.

The Forums must be set up with an area for every table in the database so that posts go into the forum according to the table the public person is offering the code to edit.

5. Make one date per month..say the 15th. That a new verion of the database is released that way the people doing the editing have 30 days to add or change whatever they want from the forums or privately inbetween the releases. After a edit is made from the public forums message you just delete that message that way the forums stay clean.

6. Make it known to people joining the forums that this isn't a place of discussion but a place of submission for work doen on the Master Database.



I REALLY wish I had time to do Database work again :( Starting my own company has really killed my fun time, but filled my pockets with more than lint.

I know Angelox and cavedude are really the only major player in the database are right now (cavedude now holds PEQ or so i believe) so I guess it is really an idea for them to mull over.

If you need a fast host for files and forums let me know I've got a pro server up and running that I have complete controll over >:)

Angelox
01-12-2007, 05:33 AM
Well, I got a "sneak-peek" at what's coming from PEQ. I can tell you, you all are going to get knocked off your feet.
They are in fact, doing a very good job. They have something there to make everyone happy.
Even me, with my nit-pick'n details.

Zengez
01-12-2007, 07:06 AM
A Lot of Stuff


I agree with you 100% with how you said that John Adams, but the problem is that you actually took my points out of context. You see, It's true that the PEQ team skims the forums for updates, which is exactly why I suggested what I did... you're absolutely right that isn't asking for something new.

However what I Was asking for was for the complete database to be released so that there was absolutely plenty to work on and then I guaruntee you dozens of posts will be made from all over by many different members on updates for all sorts of updates throughout the entire 'mangled' area of the database. Sure there won't be any rhymn or reason to the updates, you'll have single mobs being fixed in dozens of zones at once and no one zone will be completed any time soon that way, but the database as a whole will have 10+ members making active and intelligent contributions instead of the 3 members we have currently running PEQ.

Now don't get me wrong, we will have likely dozens and dozens of posts about how to fix things, or things that are off, etc etc, and most of them will, frankly, be crap. Which is why I suggest that PEQ team skims the forums for intelligent updates and picks them out of the mess and puts them in.


"There are probably hundreds of databases just like this out there already... and do you know how much "feedback" we get? Barely any."

(Randomly interjected so hopefully that doesn't break the flow of the writing)

This I think is more that hte 'hundreds of databases' are entirely pet projects that are private databases or not 'official works' of the emulator project... PEQ is 'THE' emulator database... If this were posted and asked for updates alot more people would try to help I'd bet, because they don't feel like they are trying to just help out some random person with one thing that isn't for the community but just for them... In contrast the PEQ database is assumed to be the community's database and thus people would know their work is for the betterment of everyone, not just the betterment of one particular person or server.

Now, as a tangent, to go to CaveDudes comment on being flooded with random support requests and complaints by newbins that complain that xx zone way out in expansion land that isn't complete is 'messed up and I fall for 10k damage when I hit a mob!' or some such. To this I'd recommend two things,

1: Make a sticky post/giant banner/ some other thing that says that these zones aren't supported and shouldn't be played unless you are trying to fix them.

2: Now, for all those true newbins that never read that stuff and post why EQ doesn't work after patching just like they read somewhere, get another person into the PEQ team whose sole job it is to take in those complaints, sift through them and get what is good and what isn't, reply to them, etc... Basically a liason between the PEQ staff and the other people, because honestly that is exactly what it feels like... PEQ team is 'them' and the rest is 'us' and we have no idea what is or is not going on in the world of database development... If we had an intermediary it would be good for many different reasons, for example we'd have someone who would be very active in replying to our questions about whatever with the database, and potentially more importantly, whomever currently does this (I believe that would be you Cavedude) would be able to do the work on PEQ and not have to hassle with the crazies, and/or spend all yer time essentially doing customer support.
Everyone's happy.

(EDIT:: Interjection, I dont mean it to seem like we have no voice, because I know we can post updates and suggestios and bug reports, my point was we don't know if you are actually doing anything about what we say or not because we have no feedback on our feedback that I've seen unless you're one of the few that gets a line about how they contributed in a release note somewhere or in a random forum somewhere, but those are fairly rare in the grand scheme of things)

Now I don't know if anyone 'wants' that responsibility, but thats what makes sense to me.

Also, to the other part you mentioned John; What I've been asking for all this time is an actually full release of 'any' database rather than withholding updates that aren't quite 'finished' yet until the 3 guys are done working on them, it seems such a waste to me to see people that could be doing real work on the spawns and loot and factions and whatnot of a database instead going back and replacing missing doors in zone xyz that nobody really needs in the first place... Get all the essential stuff in, then worry about doors and who is selling what (no offense intended to those that did these, it's still more than alot of other people, and I have nothing but respect to anyone that does any work on the database).

Recap::

So essentially All I was asking for was to have a full release of everything PEQ has right now, including allt he innacurate and messed up zones for 'most of the zones our client supports' as per Cavedude, and I was merely listing all the ways that would help us with what we were already doing, I wasn't saying that people don't scan the forums for updates, or that people don't have the ability to post fixes and updates, merely all this would be far far better if we actually had stuff to work with, rather than going over the already finely tuned stuff that PEQ releases... they seem to 'make sure we're happy with it before we release it' then complain that we don't post enough fixes to it... Just seems kind of backwards to me, if you want people to help you fix it, release it when it still needs serious work, otherwise only the very very select few with mastery of; the database, hardcoding, and everquest the game, will be able to fix anything.

mattmeck
01-12-2007, 07:41 AM
Zengez, sounds like all your issues can be handles by joining the team and making it 4 people.


Anyone who wants to help CAN, all they need to do is go to Cavedude and ask, so that team of 3 can become a team of 20 if people are interested and want to.

John Adams
01-12-2007, 07:50 AM
Zengez, I may have misinterpreted some of what you were saying, yes. I wasn't really talking only to you, though, but anyone else who feels the project needs help. Matt really said it best... join the team, officially. You seem very feverish and interested. You ever thought considered it?

cavedude
01-12-2007, 08:17 AM
Thank you Angelox for your very kind words. We have tried to bulldoze the entire database, correcting bugs as we go. We have slowed a little bit I must admit at the moment, but mostly because we are all working on longer term mini projects that can't be finished in a matter of hours.

Zengez, I'm sorry but a full database release is not going to happen right now. It is in the works and it will happen soon but we feel it is just not ready yet. I am hoping for a release in another 1 - 2 months. This will incooperate our massive changes to Luclin and below, all of the original epics, many other freshly added quests, a tweaked VT (with the key quest), a tweaked PoK, and if I get to it in time, a tweaked PoT. But, here's how I see it... FNW released his last version of Luclin in December. Even we make a release in 2 months, that is still only 3 months or so inbetween releases. That I think is the fastest update in PEQ history. Why is it not coming out until those goals are met? Support is the number one issue. I WILL receive support quests and there isn't anything that can be done to stop that. Secondly, without goals, people tend to sit on things forever. We are all itching to release the database but knowing that we won't until our goals are met keeps us motivated. Quicker updates will hope to be the norm. Possibly instead of a full PoP release, we'll have Luclin 1.5 with half of the PoP zones done and perhaps LoY.

What's to stop you from helping now? Download the Luclin Final http://projecteq.net/downloads.php You actually have access to the newest quests now, using anonymous CVS login: http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=127915 Then, check out the PEQ forums: http://projecteq.net/phpBB2/ Our players submit bugs and suggestions everyday. Browse through and see what you may want to take on. You can also login into the PEQ server, to see the db in action. Using the Luclin final as a guide, create the .sql files and post them on the MySQL submission board. You don't need access to the current database to help.

John Adams
01-12-2007, 08:26 AM
You don't need access to the current database to help.
I'm sensing this is actually the root issue here. :)

I can't wait to see the new database!

bufferofnewbies
01-12-2007, 08:28 AM
instead going back and replacing missing doors in zone xyz that nobody really needs in the first place... Get all the essential stuff in, then worry about doors and who is selling what (no offense intended to those that did these, it's still more than alot of other people, and I have nothing but respect to anyone that does any work on the database).

ouch, kinda. Just as a pre-emptive statement: I don't take offense at this remark, although i do feel a bit slighted. I'm certain you didn't mean anything bad by it, due to your last sentence there. So no harm, no foul.

BUt I do want to help everyone with what I can do and when it comes to
it seems such a waste to me to see people that could be doing real work on the spawns and loot and factions and whatnot of a database

I really have no skill with that when it comes to 'live-like' qualities. Thus I attempt to fill in the spaces for those who will come later who do have the skills necessary: To lessen their work when it comes time for those areas to be filled. I find most of my modifications/ additions can be used by the majority of the community, and not just the PEQ team, as they are changes to empty or un-finished areas. Thus, I put out my modifications here instead of anywhere else, and in a format that is the 'least' restrictive to databases that I can achieve.

Some of us would like to be a part of the PEQ team, but I'm sure I am not the only one that doesn't apply simply because we do not feel we have anything to offer other than what we currently have produced. And as most of that isn't 'world-specific', there really is no need to have my name anywhere but in the minds of those who are doing the real work. I hope that if they come across a situation that I have proven myself capable of they ask for my assistance, since the worst I can do is say no.

It's also a good point to note that quite a few of us are only here for short periods of time on and off. I have been a member of this community for quite a bit longer than I have been posting these updates, but as is always in life: I get burned out/ distracted and fail to return for months or so.

The best way to help is by dropping changes on the PEQ forums.
As a jokeing aside comment: Does this mean I need to start linking my threads from here to PEQ boards?

cavedude
01-12-2007, 09:18 AM
I just say to post on the PEQ forums because it is easier for us. Both the EQEmulator and PEQ forums seem to have the same number of active users (ok, so maybe Emu edges out out a bit) so it's tough to find time to browse both forums looking for cool additions. PEQ has a nice and neat MySQL submission forum setup here: http://www.projecteq.net/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=38 so that would help us out a ton. Plus, if the changes are made for PEQ then to me it only makes sense to use our forums. I always felt the EQEmulator.net forums were more meant for the code and just a general meeting place for all community members.

Angelox
01-12-2007, 12:05 PM
Well, I like the work that's going on over there at PEQ, Lots of activity, and I'm sure they will put out a new database when they are ready. From what I've seen, Cavedude never had anything to hide, gave us his Eq database, and I'm sure he'll give us PEQ when it's done too. My biggest worry was that my hard work would get lost in a pile of "waiting to be inspected" lists, I also thought I would never see stuff like the LoY zones, unless I did it myself - this is not so anymore.
Fact of matter is, we really are not giving Cavedude and his "revised" PEQ project a chance. Currently, there is nothing more organized than PEQ ( and never was). And my original idea, may very well be just another "pipe dream".
I am NOT that organized - I am just one guy that proved to you all what one dumd-assed MySql, Perl illiterate can accomplish - at the time i started, PEQ or nobody else was doing nothing (Most like Cavedude, were "retired"), void FNW , who was working on the source.
Originally, I started this thread as a plea to get something more done to the public DB. There's not really a lot of people willing to do do this, and what few there are , need to stick together. I'm willing to to go over and help PEQ in whatever way I can, hope you all will too.
Keep in mind, there "each ship can only have one skipper", so we can't go in there "bossing" everyone around.

Zengez
01-12-2007, 04:03 PM
It's also a good point to note that quite a few of us are only here for short periods of time on and off. I have been a member of this community for quite a bit longer than I have been posting these updates, but as is always in life: I get burned out/ distracted and fail to return for months or so.


Amen to this on so very many levels, and this is absolutely the primary reason I haven't already tried to join the PEQ team, because I simply am not confident that I won't gravitate elsewhere by choice or necessity for a long stretch of time...

But let me just say that I think several people may have taken my ... fervor... a little too intensly. I think what this project has accomplished is mind boggling, and the database as of now is remarkable and advancing in good order, or from what I hear.

I am also quite please Cavedude is the leader of the PEQ crew, he did alot of good work on many database things that I've toyed with and I have great respect for him and what he has done.

Read above and replace Cavedude with Angelox; you are right up there with the others despite what you say.

Now to the point, I post what I did, and am, because I think that it is a very largely held belief right now that nobody wants to say. As such, I took it upon myself to be the voice of those that wouldn't speak up and bring the issue front and center. Many of the topics I myself wholeheartedly agree with, such as at least some form of public release or wider release of a rougher database to generate interest...

However some of what I have said I don't necessarily wholeheartedly agree with but I thought it needed to be said, so that we had a discussion on exactly why things are the way they are, and what is/is not changing. Thus far I think I've accomplished what I set out to do and that is why I'm writing this now... This isn't a retraction by any means but I just wanted to make my postition clear so everyone doesn't think I'm being negative on the project or those that are pushing it, it's quite the opposite.

All that being said, let me continue with the topic at hand however. I guess all I'd really want to see is an explicit example of what you guys think can be accomplished under the parameters you have set, by those of us outside the team with access to the database... Here's what I see and I'm sure there has got to be more to it otherwise this wouldn't be such a debateable issue;

Ok, Under the current setting;

1) People log into PEQ and get an idea for how the world works, keeping in mind live and whatnot, jot down any issues they may have and anything they notice lacking for content and whatnot.
2) People then go code crawling and figure out how the database really works by posting questions, and looking at the newest released database (something in favor of this, the database will be clean and thus not quite as confusing to the newbins)
3) Once the person has a feel for how things work and what goes where, they proceed to fix the things they noticed were missing/off and then post fixes in the forums explaining what/why/how/where/etc...
4) Rinse and repeate.

Ok, perfectly good in theory, now here's what I see under an opened release of the database:

1) Exact same thing as above as none of that would be thus unavailible due to having more things to work with...
2) Added, people could look through the zones they are most familiar with... those that went through Wall of Slaughter all the time would be able to see the progression with Wall of Slaughter instead of being limited to the velious or newer zones, thus they would be able to work with what they know, and have a better understanding/refference for picking out what is missing/off...
3) with more familiarity comes more interesting in fixing it, which in result leads to more activity and posts with updates, which then fixes the database faster and more efficiently.
4) potential downside is the newbins that try and fail and flood people with support/bad ideas/ etc... See above with the liason/intermediary for answer.


Ok, so is that it? What else am I missing here? Let the talk continue!


PS:: bufferofnewbies, I actually was extatic to hear about the door update because I liked to close doors on my friends to mess them up when we played hide and seek in empty PoK... So I was speaking of generality more than anything else, and like I said, nothing but respect :)

Angelox
01-13-2007, 02:27 AM
Building a zone is like painting a picture; at one time, when my dad was in the military, we lived in Spain, and, my dad used to oil paint for a hobby. Not because he's my dad, but he did beautiful landscape paintings - he never went to no "art school", just had the talent. My dad also has a fearful temper (and the muscle to back it up), and when he had a tantrum - everyone stayed clear else you loose your head. I preferred to hide under the bed, and watch him stomp by breaking things. Needless to say, one day all the hundreds of oil-paintings got torn up and trashed, during a temper-tantrum - they were all lost.
Anyways, when my dad used to paint , he always carried around some kind of "charcoal pencil" and a sketch-pad. He would pull up to a view, decide what he wanted to paint, and make a sketch of it with his pad. His sketches were incredibly nice too ( I would have settled for those even). Then he'd go home and start painting the final version, with the sketch as a sort of outline.
What I'm getting at is, the zones here are really a piece of modern-day artwork. We have all the pieces ( packets collected), and a "sketch" of it. But it is all unfinished; the detail is incomplete.
I'm not talking about AA's, or haste, or skill points and what not. I mean the true, picture" of the zone with all of its detail.
When I take my character to a zone, I look for all the detailed mechanics that make this zone; Drops, spawns, rare spawns, ultra-rare spawns, grids, quests, objects, etc. I want the zone to "feel" like the real Everquest. If a Hill giant drops 30pp on live, then i want him to drop that too in my zone - and if an orc drops 2sp, then that's what he should drop. Some mobs like Quilmane and Bilge, are "legendary" rare spawns. And to me, if you have stuff like Quilmane flopping around the zone all the time - you just ruined a major part of South Karana. In Butcher; Corflunk - he's not supposed to be just standing there like some big "dork" (scratching his ass) and even less the Fabled version. He was a sought out spawn and had a path. Fabled versions of spawns are supposed to be some of the rarest spawns in the game. How is ToFS like with no working keys?
We need to attract people that really want to play, we need to make a game out of this. We need to make the zones "playable". You have to ask yourself, will I want to play in this zone too?, does everything look/feel right?
To be honest with you, I think the custom zones are not helping this situation, but thats another debate. When I first saw the log-in server, I expected to see a string of servers that had a plan; all the same zones with all the same content.
There probably should be rules; no cheating, no this, no that, etc. New zones should be opened in all servers at the same time. Maybe, we should have two areas (at the login) for EQ, one labled "custom", where everything goes - then the real servers where things are working towards a goal. Blizzard has "free-for-all servers like this, then they have the servers where there is rules.

John Adams
01-14-2007, 09:14 AM
Hah Zengez, it might be a good idea to not insult those who do help out and post updates here. Even though you don't mean it, posting that "hand-spawns and random useless door fixes" is probably going to result in those people not wanting to help anymore. Pretty sure this, coupled with feeling ignored, causes that self-termination and abandonment we see here from otherwise helpful people monthly.

I still fully support packet collecting and extraction. IMO, this is the only true way to get accurate data (but that does not mean I do not enjoy anyone's hand-spawned efforts!) However, since we cannot seem to get the tools updated to the current Live expansion, what can we do? Nothing. Hand Spawn.

If someone IS working on the tools, might I make a recommendation to wait til after Feb 15th or so. I am confident SOE will poop out yet another packet-modifying expansion. I know tools like Magelo are incompatible for a few weeks after an expansion. Is it possible to sniff out what *they* to to match the new packets? Doesn't appear to be illegal for them to do, and I doubt SOE hands them the new structures each release.

Windcatcher
01-17-2007, 09:21 AM
I've never been a fan of New Year's resolutions, as they inevitably wind up being unfulfilled. However, my hope is that 2007 will be the year we release our own client, with our own content: our own zones, mobs, spells items, etc. I want to see 2007 as the year that people can begin running 300+ servers again (like Dawntide) without fear of ever being shut down. When Dawntide was shut down everyone was talking about how it had gotten too big, it was too good for SOE to allow to exist, and they shut it down. Well, they don't get to do that again. That's what I resolved when they took that action. We will release a client this year. We will have our own creature models, our own zones, our own spell list, our own gods and lore, everything (and you won't see "eq" or any of their names anywhere in there so no back-handed trademark actions will be possible). It will be our own game, but it will also be EQEmu (actually EQEmu+ as we'll put in provisions for servers to set their own gods list, available race/class combos, etc.) That's what I have planned for 2007, and I predict that 2008 will be the year of 300+ servers once again.

bufferofnewbies
01-17-2007, 09:32 AM
I've never been a fan of New Year's resolutions, as they inevitably wind up being unfulfilled.

In 1993, I made a New Year's resolution to never make another New Year's Resolution. I have yet to break it... :)

John Adams
01-18-2007, 11:27 AM
That's what I have planned for 2007, and I predict that 2008 will be the year of 300+ servers once again.
That is an amazing resolution you almost didn't make, Wind... :) Very exciting stuff. I wasn't aware the EQEmu project was heading that way - though it makes sense that it would.

We're all pretty confident at this point that SOE will *eventually* shut EQLive down. It's populations are so low, it's almost sad.

Angelox
12-18-2007, 12:28 AM
I just thought of this thread from last year and was looking over it. Seems we did get a few things going for the better;
PEQ Database really is a "public" database - always being updated and posted to the public. With Cavedude in charge, anyone can contact him and become part of that portion of the project.
Database itself still has very much work undone - even the expansions said to be "done" really are not; For example, I was playing in lake of Ill Omen, when I realized all the missing roamers and mobs in the old "stomping grounds" (have since been adding there).
Probably the most complete expansion would be the PEQ LoY one, and that's because we all came together on that one.

Loggin Server; Same' ol - same' ol. Closed source, propertied, and preferred membership remains exclusive to a few of the "chosen" ones. At least, If a server can stay up and running over a few months (or a year even), it should be offered the preferred server listing. We are ALL part of the project and ALL deserve
proper treatment.

Source; I really like and appreciate all the work done here. And the way any new (worthwhile) ideas posted by anyone (DEV or not) gets quickly moved into it.

I wonder whats in store for 2008?

sdabbs65
12-18-2007, 01:24 AM
I disagree,
Preferred memberships should only be for the LARGE POPULATION
servers not for just anyone who can throw up a server.
but it's not my choice and I never really cared about it anyway since
everyones server is seen, it don;t really matter if some are green and I doubt it's going to make anyone pick it over a really well built small server thats on the bottom of the list.
I think what really matters is Gameplay and is the Server fun to play on even if your solo.
people complain about my server all the time just go read my boards.
but the answer back is always the same....
what are you doing to help make it better ??? nothing ...then shutup.
thats my 2 cents..

Angelox
12-18-2007, 08:15 PM
Well, in any case - I just got banned from the log in server, probably for my comment here, goes to show what I'm talking about.
Fact of matter is, I'm so fed up with a few of the people here, I'm quitting this scene for a while, probably time I did something different anyway.


I disagree,
Preferred memberships should only be for the LARGE POPULATION
servers not for just anyone who can throw up a server.

Sakrateri
12-19-2007, 03:26 AM
I think that being posted as a preferred server is irrelevant as most people will try several severs out before committing to any one.

If you are honest and treat your people with respect they will come back to play no matter where in the list you happen to be.

It is a shame that someone would be banned for a comment such as this if that is really what it's about ( I wasn't there ) and I hope you reconsider and stick around.

Saying that preferred servers should only be for large population servers and ones that have been around awhile is actually laughable as originally preferred servers where meant for new servers that have low population.

anyway this is a ridicules argument and one that should not get people pissed off.


Of course I could just be bonkers in which case everyone should just ignore me.

Cripp
12-19-2007, 04:14 AM
New years resolution...

Get Nug Blazers finished !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the ultimate custom server ><

and... fry my head off as much as possible :)
and... make mad money, ofcourse. yheeeeee

edit: ++ help this and related projects as much as possible.

edit2: wow just noticed this thread is really old... but theres my reso anyways =D

Sakrateri
12-19-2007, 04:44 AM
and... fry my head off as much as possible
and... make mad money, ofcourse. yheeeeee

edit: ++ help this and related projects as much as possible.

edit2: wow just noticed this thread is really old... but theres my reso anyways =D


Lol seems reso 1 has come true allready :)

leslamarch
12-19-2007, 07:17 AM
Well, in any case - I just got banned from the log in server, probably for my comment here, goes to show what I'm talking about.
Fact of matter is, I'm so fed up with a few of the people here, I'm quitting this scene for a while, probably time I did something different anyway.

I really hope you are not serious about Quitting Angelox :( I know you have helped me out greatly, and have made huge efforts in this community. Just my thoughts
thanks for all your work
~LL~

John Adams
12-26-2007, 08:46 AM
Well, in any case - I just got banned from the log in server, probably for my comment here, goes to show what I'm talking about.
Fact of matter is, I'm so fed up with a few of the people here, I'm quitting this scene for a while, probably time I did something different anyway.
Well Ax, you have come a long way in the year+ I've known you. While I disagree with nearly everything that you say and you have become an intolerably arrogant and unappreciative little ____ for anyone not in your clique (grin), I feel you have done some amazing things for the community, and side with you on most "pure EQ" concepts for the emulator scene. I cannot believe they would take the time to ban you from the loginserver though, so hopefully that is not the case. Since there is but one true point of entry for EQ Emulators, that would pretty much scare me away from ever thinking I actually had the freedom to speak my mind on community-related issues.

For 2008? I plan nothing. 2007 here has shown that no matter what anyone does, it goes unnoticed. You're welcome for my LDoN work and posts to dev that got deleted, my EQ Items testing and submissions that became someone elses contribution, my changes to WorldHTTP that got deleted from the forums, and limitless support for those in need of help.

JA, going underground - see you on the EQ2Emulator project.