Content creation

[Windcatcher]

Okay here is a general-purpose thread where we can discuss different aspects of content creation. If we get a lively discussion going, maybe those of us interested in a specific aspect can start another thread and we can really narrow things down.

Merely as a first whack, I can see some things definitely worth talking about:

- database creation

- zone creation

- texture creation

- character and model creation

I'm sure there are more, but I'm pressed for time at the moment so this is what's on the top of my head

1. Database creation

This spans a lot of things: items, npc types, quests, and loot tables, for instance. Our efforts can be immediately partitioned along these lines, but there are some inherent links, such as loot tables to items, and npc types to what they drop, and quests to items and the npcs that grant them. So it means that there needs to be a standard way that content teams can coordinate their efforts, and I really think it would be a good idea to first hash out a way to try and make content modular to make installation easy and so teams don't end up breaking each other's work.

Another huge issue is wkat KIND of content to create, that is, do we stick with SOE's content, or create original content from scratch? IMHO using the same tired-old stuff from the live servers is boring as heck and is a real no-no from an IP standpoint; expect VI/SOE to freak out. I think the real potential of the emu is to allow people to be creative in what they present, and thus players will have the thrill of discovery all over again. After all isn't that one of the resons why some of us quit EQ?

If some of choose the legacy route and some want to create new content, we should try to work out a way to coordinate them so "content packages" can be installed or uninstalled without breaking everything.

2. Zone creation: now this, IMHO, would be really terrific. It seems to me that the first thing we need is a complete specification for the WLD geometry files. Tonight I'll release my upgraded version of ZoneConverter, which renders what it can understand on the screen and enables the dump-to-text feature that the original ZoneConverter contains but leaves disabled (it also fixes some bugs in the code). A collective effort would be necessary for this, but it definitely is doable. I've delved through the dumps and there isn't all that much left to figure out.

The next step would be to design a tool that can allow you to create a 3D scene (or import one), attach EQ specific attributes, and export to a WLD file. I'm positive that this is possible, given a spec for the WLD files. It's something some people can work on and would really open the floodgates as to what we can do with the emu. As for ground textures, paint tools and free content abound; it should be no effort at all to develop a freely-distributable library of ground textures that people can use, categorized if possible.

3. I don't know too much about other textures in the game (such as character or item textures), but I suspect that building other textures or 3D models could be an offshoot of the zone creation effort. We do know that all textures are BMP files, so creating free texture content would be a snap. If work begins on a zone creation tool, I think it would be a good idea to keep other 3D models in mind and perhaps design the tool to allow manipulation, saving, and usage of other models as well (for example, tree models).

That's all I have for now. I have other half-developed thoughts still churning around in my mind, but nothing really mature yet, so I'd really like to hear what the rest of you who join this thread have to say....

Windcatcher

[Zeitgeist]

I think that this is a very exciting set of ideas and potentially could explode the popularity of eqemu. As you mentioned there are some important things to keep in mind.

1. Recreating EQLive could get people in trouble, but if people want to do it then the best way to go about it is to keep it completely separate from the emu.

2. We need some standards so as not to:
a. duplicate work
b. break other work by importing data

3. Big step will be getting some sort of editor working or getting a program working that imports a known freeware modeler type. From my time building quake levels and models I know a little bit about this and there are tools out there, but I am sadly very much lacking in the programming side of the house.

4. We need dedicated people who can work together to pull this off. A huge first step is WC's Admin Tool of course, another will be his release of the modified zone viewer.

Who is interested in this? I know there is a thread on worldbuilding in the Dev area... Mayhap we should mention this over there =) Heck we probably should've started this thread over there eheheh!

Z-.

[Trumpcard]

I suggested in the other thread making a seperate CVS project for this so you could use CVS's task assignment features to keep the right people working in the right directions. This would be a great way to assign work out, perhaps assigning duties and zones, and the end users could use the bug submitting tools to track errors.

Just a thought.

[Zeitgeist]

that sounds like a good nudge in the right direction =) Who wants to work on this? eheh...

[madborg]

murky waters. careful.


Here is a safe road map to keep you out of IP poopoo:

1. create content rather than modify existing content

2. If you modify content, pick the most generic-- avoid things that can easily be consider exclusive to the property owner.

3. follow any "cease and desist" court order. It's a court order and you must do the right court-related things. But it also allows you to stop without any other consequences. A lawyer's "cease and desist" letter is not binding. Just give the letter to your lawyer to send a letter back which states roughly "go ahead and get a court order cause this piece of paper means nothing to us, hahahahaha (see you at the club next tuesday?)"

4. Never touch any registered content. This means the content owner is serious and they will wack you hard for it. Registered content means that there is a document filed at the appropriate IP office. That information is available to the public.

5. If you can avoid it, never distribute someone's content; only distribute your enhancements, morphs, or patches.

[TheClaus]

I am willing to help out. I would like to create my own world anyway but fot testing purposes having the items and such there is nice. The only probably I am seeing is spells. Is that a problem though?

[Windcatcher]

Well I would strongly, STRONGLY (hmmm do I need another "strongly"? ) recommend creating all content from scratch, and I think any content-creation tools that wind up being developed should be built to make that process as easy as possible. I'm more (if not totally) engineer than artist, so I don't plan on creating any content, but maybe tools to make that possible (unless I take my professor's offer and join the PhD program, which would suck all my free time down a black hole--and yes I do work full-time too).

Textures: should be a snap. I see no reason why anyone should use textures already in the game. One thing to point out is that we need to figure out how texture coordinates work in the WLD files and how they are attached to 3D meshes (in fact this is almost the only thing that needs figuring out).

World geometry: here's my idea. Create a 3D tool that, in addition to importing from, for example, a standard AutoCAD DXF file, takes SCRIPTS for 3D objects. That way we could build a freely-distributable library of CONFIGURABLE objects that anyone can use (for example, a staircase script that automatically calculates the number of steps it needs). Scripts that take parameters, allow variables, can call other scripts, etc. In short order a library could be built that would allow really complex zones, at least above-ground.

Items, loot, and npc types: think of your books, tabletop RPGs, comics, you name it. There are countless possibilities to draw from. Of course you can't use copyrighted names or info, but that really isn't my point anyway; just use your imagination. a Freely-distributable library of creature textures and models would really help with regard to npc types, but I don't think it's strictly necessary (you just can't distribute anything that's the IP of SOE). However, I think our goal should be completely "virgin" content that no one owns. If you've played games like D&D, coming up with ideas for content should be a snap, especially if you've ever DMed your own adventure. For myself, frankly, I'm sick to death of SOE content; if I ever run a server for my friends hopefully there will be none of it.

Quests: put the EQ box down and step away from the computer Now go and get your storyeller hat and firmly put it on. Remind yourself: this is NOT Norrath. It's not Nehwon, nor is it Ansalon, Oerth, or Midkemia, but they are all fertile ground for your imagination. Create your NPC personas, their histories, and their objectives. Create YOUR WORLD. No, I don't expect everyone to create an entire world from scratch. That's why I propose modular content.

Okay, that's enough for now. Time to make some ZIP files and upload them...

Next?

Windcatcher

[Gino]

Hmm i got to admit, that this idea has something.

Dunno if i should love or hate it atm.

Sure it would solve certain problems, but then game balance is very hard to get done right. Taste of the Individuals would play into as well, and im usure if you could get that all under 1 hat.

Guess i should sleep about it first.

Night

Gino

[madborg]

take a peek at chequip.s3d, if you haven't done so already.
That file contains the models of all the gods, players, elements, and some more things. The animation files are there too for the models. Of course there is also the UV definitions and the material definitions.

So here is what is known so far:
textures -- bitmap format, so its a replacement or add. Has anyone tried to do either?

zone file- wld format but converters exist for obj and scr; no converters for going back to wld though.

character models- text files with their own definition. Requires some carefully study but the information is in text not binary.
Probably not too hard to pick up the vertices and do a line rendering. Might be better to convert to obj and let another tool help out with the texturing.

mob and npc models -- probably in _chr.s3d files, but no clue what the format is. Each zone has three s3d files:
zone.3ds
zone_obj.3ds
zone_chr.3ds

[Windcatcher]

I just posted my Delphi Zone Converter to SourceForge. IT ISN'T PERFECT. But it runs on the PCs I tested it on. Please read the readme file.

With this, I suspect that a full spec for WLD files won't be far off at all...

Windcatcher

[Zeitgeist]

sweet gonna go take a look. i'll admit that i am a poor programmer, a decent artist and a fairly good storyteller/character creator =) lookin forward to playing in out new sandbox.

[madborg]

ok dled your program. Definitely nice to have a viewer built in before the export.

I loaded up my greatdivide wld file and I think I get the hang of how things work. What I wonder about are those little red dots that run along the great divide stream when I select show zone points. I also see a series almost in a line near the neck going to eastern waste. Then it dawned on me what all those little markers were for -- river markers.

I picked GD because is a fairly new zone. It also blows away my previous posts about old zones vs new zones.

I have to look at a few other wld files now.

[Windcatcher]

Turn the GD zone upside down. you should see solid red polygons along the riverbed

NOTE: what the tool is NOT showing are bounding polygons. These are polygons that define where you cannot go, and generally surround the navigable area of the zone on all six sides. I choose not to display them because then you would not be able to see anything. But they DO exist, and their color/texture attribute is 00000000h. They also serve to limit certain areas. They are the reason why you can't climb over the really high areas in Butcherblock, for example; you collide with those "invisible" polygons. If, for instance, you export as a DXF and import the DXF into any other 3D tool, you can then see the bounding polygons.

Windcatcher

[Vipermmx]

Windcatcher you plan on doing a spell editor as well? I know there is a hex image flating around somewhere showing what each line in a hex editor is for editing spells alls we need is a GUI to control the editing. That way we can create new spells and change them around.

[Windcatcher]

Not planning on it at the moment...I have a lot on my plate as it is...

WC