Rogue Max Backstab Damage Rule

[Shendare]

Of course, some things are hard-coded in the source because they are also hard-coded in the client.

[ChaosSlayerZ]

Originally Posted by Shendare

Of course, some things are hard-coded in the source because they are also hard-coded in the client.

not those 2 things though =P
the client was perfectly happy with new refresh times I gave it, but server refused them
more info here
http://www.eqemulator.net/forums/showthread.php?t=28603

[demonstar55]

Originally Posted by ChaosSlayerZ

not those 2 things though =P
the client was perfectly happy with new refresh times I gave it, but server refused them
more info here
http://www.eqemulator.net/forums/showthread.php?t=28603

zone\features.h line 169 and 170, change them yourself, or 0 to disable server side checking, from the comments I believe they're in seconds

[trojansf5]

+BS does not work.

Rogue Backstabs should be able to break 10k with assassin's strike and epic 2.0.

We've tested quite a bit with the bug testing team and found that comparing rogues with zerks here versus on live met with a massive discrepancy.

The augs will correctly increase a weapon's normal damage number but the number used to compute backstab max hit does not receive the increase. (jagged glowing prism)

1) Damage augments e.g. jagged glowing prism are not currently having any affect on rogue backstab damage.
2) On live Rogues parse equivalent to zerks in tacvi/omens/2.0 gear
3) On EMU zerks outparse rogues significantly in the same gear configuration.



I believe the root issue of the problem lies in the calculation of backstab max hit (max and min hit are the two big determinants of backstab damage, these are calculated then sent to a general damage routine to determine how much damage is actually done). All of the variables in the max hit calculation are easily obtainable except one, it shows up in the code like this:
GetDamageTable(BACKSTAB)
I'm not very intimate with the emu server code so I have not been able to locate exactly what this does, but to venture a guess I'd say it is pulling a value from a table in the database. Based on data supplied by Wildd (thanks Wildd) I estimate that the current value this is returning for a lvl 70 rogue is about 273. Based on the second hand recollections of live data that I have from Wildd and Irrelevant (thanks guys) I estimate that this value should be somewhere in the 356-400 range for lvl 70 rogues to get the max backstab hit they deserve.

with duelist maxed, bs *6900 and some changes with duelist *4900 and epic, Fabled gear pieces,rest of time gear. Yeah our dps is broken, last parsed fight was vex 2400 dps zerker 2k dps monk 1600 dps rogue 1550 dps terraa rogue ( she is healing ) 600 dps on this fight. We had the mobs back at least 95 % of the time. I hope rogues dps will get fixed atm it really sucks to what the class should be the best at.. its only middle of the road.
*** i have maxxed over 150 accuracy ( with trib) best fero cleave combat effect 48 worn attack at least 100 over the cap ****

So my hypothesis is that this is not actually a bug but rather a lack of implementation of lvl 66-70 content. I'm guessing that the backstab damage table only contains values for rogues up to lvl 65. If I am right the solution should be easy (simply expand the table) once you have some good solid live data to pin down exactly where the 66-70 values should be.


1.) If rogue dps is deemed too low, a +backstab% skill modifier of a large amount or an increase to the cap (currently 235, capped both according to #myskills and the skills window) might be an elegant solution; it would increase only backstab damage and not modify agro generation at all.

Backstab: DB+DI*x(where x is an integer between 1 and 20, and where DB is 123)

Backstab 235+12% values:
25dmg weapon: DI = 48.5, DI20 = 1142
24dmg weapon: DI = 46.5, DI20 = 1097
20dmg weapon: DI = 37.5, DI20 = 919
15dmg weapon: DI = 26, DI20 = 690

Backstab 235 (no skill modifier) values:
15dmg weapon: DI = 22.5, DI20 = 618

Asuumed: DB is the same for all tests. My Strength, Attack, Accuracy, and AAs were the same throughout the parse.
DI is a function of weapon damage times backstab modifier times some variable. It was assumed that it was (weapon_dmg*backstabskill/100), but this does not appear to be the case; there must be some other monkey-wrench involved. The difference between DI intervals on a modifier of 12% (going from 235 to 262) is relatively colossal; this was only noticeable on such a lower level dagger because any dagger post-Ifir has the backstab mod on it.

I played rogue for 8 years ( or longer ) on live i love the class i can deal with all of its shortfalls and ill try to be patient while we work on this but really i mean come on really? from a mobs back we should out dps monks (equal gear and aa) and Berzerkers should not be 2x rogue dps ( equal gear and aa) if the state things are acceptable to all the non rogues then everytime a new rogue asks me a question i will do my best to scare them into a class that dosnt SUCK

Its been tested, now it needs to be solved.
Thank you,
Nevuti the Irreverent Server.

( Credit to: Terraa, Wiild, Nevuti, Irresponsible, Irrelevant )
http://irreverentlabs.com/EQ/

[Vexium]

I'm here to confirm that (at least on Irreverent server) there seems to be something wrong with rogue's Backstab damage post-level 65.

I think Nevuti is very passionate about his class, and his information (along with others') has provided insight into the nature of a problem that we at the Irrevent imagine rogues are facing throughout EMU.

[lerxst2112]

In the current emulator code, GetDamageTable(BACKSTAB) returns 305 for a level 70 rogue. The function is in attack.cpp.

The relevant part is here:

int16 dmg_table[] = { 
    275, 275, 275, 275, 275,
    280, 280, 280, 280, 285,
    285, 285, 290, 290, 295,
    295, 300, 300, 300, 305, 
    305, 305, 310, 310, 315,
    315, 320, 320, 320, 325,
    325, 325, 330, 330, 335, 
    335, 340, 340, 340,
};

if(GetClass() == MONK)
    return (dmg_table[GetLevel()-51] * (100+RuleI(Combat,MonkDamageTableBonus))/100);
else
    return dmg_table[GetLevel()-51];

The actual formula for the max hit is:

max_hit = (((2*backstab_dmg) * GetDamageTable(BACKSTAB) / 100) * 10 * GetSkill(BACKSTAB) / 355)  + ((level-25)/3) + 1;

backstab_dmg is the number from the backstab damage field on the weapon. If you substitute your actual weapon damage and skill values into the formula it should help to see if the max is matching up.

[trojansf5]

Thanks for the support, and Many thanks for the actual code. It means a lot, even to other players that are as passionate about their class as I'am to mine.

[Irreverent]

Nevermind, I see the spam. Tsk..tsk.

But, this is good research and follow up and I am so proud of the EMU community coming together to assist in this!

[Scendera]

Originally Posted by trevius

Yeah, the new backstabdmg field in the items table will work for all clients once it is added to actually be factored into the source code. I don't see much of a reason for a rule for this since the new field should make it easy enough to fully customize all bs damage for all items, or even just for specific weapons as needed.

Very elegant...thank you. Will this work on summoned weapons for water pets also?