Should I ban Kyle9 for being a little cheater? [Archive]

Trumpcard

02-08-2004, 02:29 AM

Eglin

02-08-2004, 02:43 AM

I dont feel that conveys a strong enough message. I dont think the eqemu community should tolerate people that are wiling to defraud us.

This is the type of person that gets your credit card # and purchases 5000 dollars worth of everquest equipment on Ebay... Or throws rocks through your window when youre not home.. This is someone who doesnt care how his actions hurt other people... Maybe we'll teach him a little through some 'tough love'...
I don't disagree with your ethics, just your policy. Giving the power to decide who plays and who does not to the hardworking individuals who actually run the servers makes a lot more sense than making administrative decisions based on the input of 10 pointless posters.

Trumpcard

02-08-2004, 03:49 AM

Eglin

02-08-2004, 04:36 AM

I respectively disgree, I feel it is the duty of the admins of the eqemu nexus to protect the community from people like this.. Server owners themselves might not visit the forums for weeks, while nefarious forces are rampaging across their servers... Whose to say they will ever even see the note?Who's to say that the admin in question would necessarily have views in line with the "nexus" and not the poster? I have mentioned before that I think that server owners should be given as much power as posible in governing their servers - this case is no exception. Since booting this person probably isn't an effective proactive security measure, I think your motivation in this case is purely punitive. That being the case, the most punsishing action is probably to release as much information about the person as possibile. Server OPs who actually care can ban by ip. Server ops who don't can harass the player. Schoolmates can throw rocks. Whatever.

As far as 10 pointless posters, thats like saying its pointless to elect a president on the votes of 100 million worthless rednecks.That would be 100% true if you're not one of the 100 million rednecks. I try to respect everyone's opinion, but that isn't to say that I think everyone deserves equal say in all matters. Quite the contrary - I believe that when it comes to server admin issues the server admin should maintain absolute sovereignty. This would certainly be a much hotter topic if not all of the popular servers belonged to devs.

I'll up the ante then, say 20 'yeas' . would that encompass enough that some 'worthwhile posters' might be included ?
If I ran a server, I would want to be the only one able to decide whether or not this person could play on my server. To suggest that a vote of twenty nameless others should override my decisions as they relate to my own hardware and bandwidth would be like slapping my face. That isn't to say that I would not appreciate public opinion. However, the buck should ultimately stop with the person running the server. I don't see any way to argue otherwise.

Trumpcard

02-08-2004, 05:21 AM

But thats not the way the system here works, regardless of the way you think it should be. The login process is centralized here, and server owners, should they not like that system, are free to develop their own login solutions. There is a centralized administration in place here that overrides those of the server owners. Is this fair? Of course it is, we built the project up from the ground floor along with alot of dedicated community members, and this is the system we decided upon. If a server owner feels like we are robbing him, then please feel free to let me know.
Some people like the centralization ,some dont, but all are free to do what they will with it. Operating a server does not give you complete and total soverignity within EQEmu, server owners can abuse power just like anyone else, it has happened in the past, so I'm not sure what argument is valid that all power should be consolidated at that level.

That being the case, the most punsishing action is probably to release as much information about the person as possibile.

You'll have to excuse me if I say this, but thats just a blantantly stupid idea, if i am reading your intentions correctly. For me to release private information concerning him to the entire word and open him up to possible attack/reprecussions is civicly irresponsible. I dont want to see him harassed, attacked, humilated, but I am hoping that he can learn a lesson. On what planet is it better to potentially endanger someone by releasing private information concerning them than it is to slap them on the list by ostracizing them from your virtual community. Im not following your reasoning at all, that we should not ban him, but we should publicize his personal credentials.

IPs change, so banning an ip is not a particularlly good solution, you need to plug the leak at the source, not continue to bail water.

Regardless of his faults here, he is , by his own admission, a child, and as such I expect him to do childish things, but that does not mean that I think it is necessary to open him or his family up to public attack by people who feel they are acting as vigiliantes, which is known to happen.. Look at SCO for example...

Honestly, I dont see any way to argue otherwise .

Eglin

02-08-2004, 06:09 AM

Why did you ask for opinions on whether or not this kid should be banned? The only sensible reason is that you felt that people other than yourself were capable of assessing his behavior and choosing appropriate responses. Why, then, do you think that you are the only one who is mature enough to responsibly handle the burden of knowing this kid's personal details? If your interests are really geared towards protecting the property and privacy of any that this kid may attack, then why would you _not_ release all information that may aid in defending against him? I play diablo, too. What's to say that banning him from eqemu is really going to help me protect myself from him? I certainly don't see why my suggestion is _stupid_. Look at the way the rest of the world handles software security. Vendors do everything in their power to _inform_ their users of security threats. There is just too much to lose by maintaining a snotty and incorrect "I know what's best for my users" attitude.

You say that you are incapable of understanding my reasoning -- that very much definitiely seems to be true.

Some kid says that he wants to exploit gamers. He mentions that he develops software that helps him to do so. If you ban him, I am no better able to protect myself from him than if you don't. Giving out whatever information you may have on him, however, may or may not enable me to better protect myself from him in the future. Isn't that, after all, what your goal is? How on Earth did you contort this into a situation where it is _him_ that you're trying to protect from _me_? That's just downright offensive.

Shadow-Wolf

02-08-2004, 07:36 AM

Egin if you dont agree with him and don't feel like he should be banned then vote no its just as simple as that. I though did vote yes, but not just use of his propose to scam the DII community but by the fact that it can work on everything including everquest, I don't know about you but I don't want my users getting tricked ing downloading the program, do you know how i would spend the rest of my day, thats right reimbursing money and items and other things wich is pretty hard to prove unless i see it myself.

devn00b

02-08-2004, 12:17 PM

okay to put an end to this, i have banned him before ( for reasons i dont owe to you or anyone else outside of the admin team ).

I (YES ME OMG) am banning him reguardless of this thread. dont like it? feel free to contact me in email. Any further talk of this in this thread is pointless.

Trumpcard

02-08-2004, 02:51 PM

Eglin, you're arguments are completely contradictory of one another, they make absolutely no sense to me... Thats why I fail to ascertain what youre talking about.

As I stated in my post, your reasoning, as I understood it, was a horrible idea. If I took it the wrong way, then my apologies, but I dont think releasing private information is an acceptable solution.
Yes, my post was very harsh and I realize that, but you cant stand upon a pedastel and claim that you have exercised restraint in some of your almost mocking posts. After reading a few of those this morning, I wondered, why bother with restraint so I said it like I saw it.

As far as who's mature and who's not, when a name/email address/user info is submitted to eqemu for validation purposes, I consider that information to be private, and would only release it if there was some sort of wrongdoing, in this case there is not, only the threat thereof. The difference is that users of EQEMU have entrusted that information with us, not to the world, and unless there is some pressing reason, I would not put that information up for grabs. Be thankful that we dont, valid email lists are very popular trade items amoung spammers. Its for everyones protection.. Be glad that these are our ethics, otherwise if one of the dev's was angry with you, he could release your IP information, email information , etc, out of spite and try to convince others to DOS you, email bomb, send virii , etc.

How did I contort the situation?? YOU'RE THE ONE THAT CONTORTED IT! My god, I just suggested banning him from the community, you're the one that stated 'dont ban him', release his private information. Its not my duty to protect the world from wrongdoers, but I do have a duty to try and protect the users here. If you had stated , 'ban him, then post his info' it might have made some sense! I still would have disagreed , but then your logic would have been sound.

It sounds to me that regardless of the solutions, you are going to argue.

I have absolutely no ill will towards you or anyone else regarding this, this was a debate as far as I am concerned. I still stand by my judgement however, I dont feel that releasing someones information is an option unless said person performs attacks of some kind, which has not happened yet.

Lasiel

02-08-2004, 04:27 PM

I'm actually surprised it took this long to rid these boards of him.

samandhi

02-09-2004, 06:26 AM

I agree with Trump on this issue (though it doesnt really matter I suppose).

/off topic ROFL "I dont care I'm a cheater too" Love it!

Cowz

02-10-2004, 07:55 AM

Ok lets make a deal here. If the votes get above a certain number in the NO category, we make a deal...

5 or less = I leave
15 = he comes back
25 = he gets his title back to normal
35 = Monrezz leaves

How about it... a fair gamble?

we'll keep up the vote for 2 days ok?

ltlruss

02-10-2004, 08:05 AM

Sorry, just thought I'd let you know that I had to vote yes... That kind of blatant disregard for other people is inexcusable... anyways, looks like the yeses are way out in front... good luck

Monrezz

02-10-2004, 08:07 AM

35 = Monrezz leaves

Wow, a whole 35 :) Sorry, but I doubt any of your options will come true. Should there be 5+ No's...I really don't think he will be allowed back. He admitted to wanting to download programs onto another persons computer without their knowledge, and use it maliciously. He also said it could run any program, not just Diablo 2 hacks. That alone is enough reason for a ban.

Monrezz

Lasiel

02-10-2004, 08:20 AM

And considering it's allready a done deal Cowz and the votes are currently at 2 for no....

/wave Cowz

Seeya!

Trumpcard

02-10-2004, 09:30 AM

For some reason I forsee someone trying to create a bunch of alternate id's , and voting multiple times...

Anyone else ?

Almost 40 yea's so far, I think that EQEMU has spoken...

Cowz

02-10-2004, 09:41 AM

wtf? Ok there maybe 40 votes against me but how about 15 no's and Kyle9 comes back... come on.... besides u can check the IP addresses of the ppl who voted too I didnt creat multiple e-mails.

Within the time limit of 2 days of course...

Cowz

02-10-2004, 09:53 AM

w00000000000000000000000t

I got 5 votes from PPL!!!!!

Well at least I dont have to leave now, lets see if we get enough to bring Kyle9 back!

15 votes though.... :cry:

Kyle9 better bow to my feet if he comes back thats all I have to say!

Trumpcard

02-10-2004, 09:55 AM

What do you know.. A herd of new users id's showing up...

Didnt they do this in the Florida election?

HEHEHEHE

ltlruss

02-10-2004, 09:58 AM

[quote="Cowz"]
I got 5 votes from PPL!!!!!

As far as I can tell, the votes weren't for you... They're for Kyle. Or maybe there's no distinction between the two? :? Hmmmm...

Cowz

02-10-2004, 10:00 AM

OMG I made a deal with the ppl and im saying I got a vote on my part of the deal! SHEEEEEEEEEEESH! :x

Yes in FLorida they had a re-election but I don't care.... Ill try and search on google for a picture I once saw about Florida's re-election.....

ltlruss

02-10-2004, 10:02 AM

I don't remember any deal being made......

Cowz

02-10-2004, 10:09 AM

ltlruss

02-10-2004, 10:12 AM

A deal would require at least one other person to agree to it..... I don't recall anyone (Trumpcard) saying that they agreed to it. That's all I was saying.....

Trumpcard

02-10-2004, 10:14 AM

I might start a new poll for Cowz though

:-)

Lets make the options

1) Yes,we should we ban Cowz for annoying us !
2) Yes, we should we ban Cowz for annoying us !

Monrezz is staying, he is a valued and respected member of our community. Kyle9 is not coming back. He was banned once before, and he was allowed back on a trial basis. There is no third chance.

Tertiary

02-10-2004, 10:28 AM

Lets make the options

1) Yes,we should we ban Cowz for annoying us !
2) Yes, we should we ban Cowz for annoying us !

I don't find him annoying, he is more like a 'court jester' .... as long as he stays here in 'off topic', let him amuse us for a while, then, when we get bored of him, ban him ...

ltlruss

02-10-2004, 10:29 AM

Wow, this topic is really getting long and is finally getting somewhere... :D J/K. It is fun reading though

Trumpcard

02-10-2004, 10:37 AM

It stopped being annoying and became fun long ago for me ! As Cowz pointed out though, I have issues !

vetoeq

02-10-2004, 11:25 AM

Ban his ass for being a zit on the ass of humanity....nothing useful, just a pain.

I saw one or two posts on the first page suggesting otherwise. I assume the other two pages are filled with arguments one way or the other...I'm not going to read them. This is a black and white issue. You are either supporting someone who intentionally destroys for 'fun' or you aren't.

wize_one

02-10-2004, 11:46 AM

cowz should be banned anyways cause he admitted he was Kyle9

Cowz

02-10-2004, 11:52 AM

WTF when did I say that?

Cowz

02-10-2004, 12:12 PM

Actually he was never given a second chance Trumpcard...

Come on Trumpcard let him back in already.... this is growing old just let him in and we can see where it leads ok! besides you read forums all the time im sure youll know when he goofs again. And, to bring him back isnt hard at all.... just do it out of the kindness of your heart.

I own you ninja style

02-10-2004, 12:15 PM

I find this really stupid, Diablo 2 is such a bad game.. so why even bother. Seriously, if he were to cheat on EQ it wouldn't be that hard. I've played EQ for many years, and rarely seen anyone cheat.

If you're going to ban anyone, ban god. He sucks even more then this kid does, this kid atleast understand D2 is such a bad game.

Also when did this "kyle9" or this "Cowz", qouting wize_one saying that he is also kyle9, say he was going to use this supposely nifty hack on EQEMU? I'd like to see the sentence (on a screen shot). Then if this can be proven, then do something civilized, but not jump to conclusion that he's a little cheater.

wize_one

02-10-2004, 12:18 PM

he already edited it after it was pointed out. quotes from unedited posts

wtf? Ok there maybe 40 votes against me but how about 15 no's and Kyle9 comes back... come on.... besides u can check the IP addresses of the ppl who voted too I didnt creat multiple e-mails.

Within the time limit of 2 days of course...

w00000000000000000000000t

I got 5 votes from PPL!!!!!

Lasiel

02-10-2004, 12:19 PM

I'll vote 1 and 2 on that Trump. This child is getting annoying...

Cowz

02-10-2004, 12:20 PM

THERE YA GO!!! Thats the whole reason why im standing up for Kyle9 !!!!

I own you ninja style

02-10-2004, 12:30 PM

No offense wize_one, but that isn't solid proof.

wize_one

02-10-2004, 12:32 PM

like i said he already edited to one with total proof..

how can you say your sticking up for someone else when you keep refering to them as ME.. his little attempt to hide and play games bit him in the ass, plain and simple

outerlimit

02-10-2004, 01:25 PM

Diablo 2 is fun.

I think I'm gonna go play it.

Cowz

02-10-2004, 01:56 PM

God this is getting out of hand... how about you just bring Kyle9 back. Or, are the devs scared of being proven wrong? PHP forums are nothing special or unique. Just bring him back and we can all just calm down. Besides the guy made you guys a freaken poster! How rude to pay him back this way...

Man all this trouble over a Diablo II game and a Javascript he asked for. Pathetic...

no, I edit my posts all the time so they just sound more better, I do make errors, but not stupid ones like that. For the last time... IM NOT KYLE9 :!:

aendaar

02-10-2004, 02:14 PM

i know alot about stupidity...and quite honestly, diablo 2 is stupid, banning him for wanting to hack lamers that play diablo 2 is stupid, and this thread is very stupid

Cowz

02-10-2004, 02:16 PM

PWN3D again Trumpcard....

Maybe you should bring him back. :?

Thanks aendaar for sticking up for Kyle9 like I have, we obviously see the error Trumpcard has made.

aendaar

02-10-2004, 02:20 PM

BUT at the same time, he should not have been asking about a diablo 2 hack on the EQemu message boards, regardless the post should have been deleted and nothing further said

Cowz

02-10-2004, 02:21 PM

Aye, true. I agree with that also. Point well made aendaar. If he comes back, were gonna have to remind him not to post that here.

Lasiel

02-10-2004, 02:22 PM

Cowz, you can keep begging, which makes you look like a whining plebe. Or you can just suck it back that your wannabe script kiddie friend is gone. If you had the reading comprehension of a gr 3 student you'd also realize that TC didn't ban your moronic lil friend. So give it a freakin rest and get on with your pathetic life.

/dev/n00b
Developer/Admin

Joined: 20 Jan 2002
Posts: 15366

Posted: 02-08-2004 04:17 PM Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

okay to put an end to this, i have banned him before ( for reasons i dont owe to you or anyone else outside of the admin team ).

I (YES ME OMG) am banning him reguardless of this thread. dont like it? feel free to contact me in email. Any further talk of this in this thread is pointless.
_________________
ServerOp Guildwars.
Guildwars Database Creator.
Memeber of the I HATE Devn00b club.

kelum

02-10-2004, 02:27 PM

no, I edit my posts all the time so they just sound more better

Last edited by Cowz on 02-10-2004 08:14 PM; edited 1 time in total

keep trying :roll:

DeletedUser

02-10-2004, 03:11 PM

hey, i think kyle9 is really kool!! i have known him (online) for a while, and i was hoping to join ur clan!! if u ban kyle9....ill have to think about it....

Cowz

02-10-2004, 03:19 PM

o.... k I think he has some friends to back him up now...

Memener

02-10-2004, 03:32 PM

??? OMG i have been gone too long. This guy isnt to smart ......
I think he should be banded for being so dumb ....

I dont think his little cheat would really work, becuase there is alot it would have to do... and i am sure you might need something alittle bit better then java to hack in some ones computer and take over there mouse ???/ that doesnt dont right.... even if you downloaded something....

aendaar

02-10-2004, 03:39 PM

im amazed how many people think he should be banned for something so stupid...i hacked on diablo 2...untill i gave it away for jedi knights 2...which is alot better by the way..

i seriously doubt he poses any threat *cough* to anybody..diablo 2 is a relatively easy game to hack, hell...you can do pretty much anything on there without any real knowledge, for the most part you can go in there and open up your char with notepad and go

health = 999999999999
mana = 9999999999
level = 9999999999
skillpoints = 9999999999

anything else can be done with a trainer..
:roll: i understand eq is quite different..

x-scythe

02-10-2004, 03:48 PM

you are talking about open battle.net tho. closed battle net you cant use a "trainer" to hack. i have seen the program kyle9 is talking about. all you have to do is download it once and it will take over your mouse (in diablo only) and drop all your items. i hate to admit it but when i played diablo i used this program one time...and one time only. i have had it used on me too and its not really that fun. personally i dont think he poses any threat to EqEmu but do what ya want trump :lol:

aendaar

02-10-2004, 03:51 PM

closed isnt a whole lot harder...if your good with a keyboard
sure...you gotta find your character file...among thousands on the battle net server...with only a few minutes to make changes before your caught/banned/fined(i think) it is, aside from Nox (if you dont know what Nox is, i forgive you) the easiest online game to hack

Trumpcard

02-10-2004, 03:54 PM

Well, just verified K9 and Cowz IP addresses are the same... :-)

I love ban by IP..

ltlruss

02-11-2004, 02:25 AM

:shock: The same IP..... Wow, that's a shocker :) ..... BTW, the problem that I had with kyle was not that he wanted to cheat on DII but that he wanted to put a file on someone elses computer without their knowledge. That's it. I couldn't care less about the game. Oh well, guess it doesn't matter much anymore anyways....

Trumpcard

02-11-2004, 03:03 AM

I would hope that admins at a D2 board would respond in kind if someone plotted an idea to defraud EQ or EQEMU users like this.
This is a matter of social responsibility, regardless if you like the game or not.

Cowz

02-11-2004, 08:06 AM

My next post will show it all....

wize_one

02-11-2004, 08:11 AM

I love ban by IP..

seems he made it arround that 8(

Trumpcard

02-11-2004, 09:05 AM

Im trying not to ban his whole subnet on the chance I might take out some other eqemu'rs..

He's got a pretty steady pattern of 4-5 ips, I must have missed one...

Maybe I should release his private information and let you guys have at him.. I've got his name, address, phone number , and all his steady ips...

Monrezz

02-11-2004, 09:09 AM

Nah Trump, I wouldn't release that. I'd save it though, so if he decides he doesn't want to go...well ;)

Monrezz

Trumpcard

02-11-2004, 09:20 AM

I'm not going to, I've already said I wouldnt.. Still, it would be fun...

wize_one

02-11-2004, 09:23 AM

bleh just write his ISP and CC to FBI and let them know what he was-is doing. useing the phone lines(also cable) makes it a federal offence.

that is if ya want to if the little pissant doesnt leave.

Sk8ordiek2k1

02-11-2004, 12:54 PM

Just a thought, but what about server owners who havent come across this thread. Or new Server owners not aware of how to ban his IP, i know i wouldnt want him on peice of Crap ... =P God knows we strive for fainess and quality there ... :lol:

outerlimit

02-11-2004, 01:41 PM

Can you even use JavaScript to do this?

It doesn't seem likely, at least, not from my experience.

When I bought EQ I got a cool action figure with it.

poops7

02-11-2004, 02:05 PM

It was just a dumb Diablo II hack, lets just forgive and forget.

Im sure he now knows what he did was wrong.

samandhi

02-11-2004, 02:18 PM

Hey Trump... You should lock these posts discussing the whole affair... We know hes not going to give up, and you and all the devs and admins are going to have to do something other than ban his ip..... I and Ill just bet money that It was just a dumb Diablo II hack, lets just forgive and forget.

Im sure he now knows what he did was wrong. this is him also................

aendaar

02-11-2004, 02:53 PM

probably is, and if he had a bit of sense about him, he would make a new account and keep quiet, although i do think its stupid it has gone this far. and i think it stupid he would attempt to clear his name by making more names, i think he should be forgiven, he did nothing to the emu community to be banned, he more or less asked a question and nothing more... correction he did nothing on his probation or whatever to be banned.. *looks through his file to find his white-mans-race card* ahh, its like banning a black man because he is black. and thats mean!

Trumpcard

02-11-2004, 10:00 PM

Nope, not true at all.. Rather than try to intelligently work it out, he abused our system, created several id's (another no no), lied about his identify, insulted several people. and generally annoyed the hell out of everyone... Even if it had been a bad call in the 1st place (which i dont think it was) , he pretty much justified it with his behavior afterwards, end of story.. He's not welcome here, he's had his chances (several of them in fact)..

But, I agree with the other suggestion, I'm locking this thread as there is nothing more to be gained by discussing it.