US Draft [Archive] - EQEmulator Forums

Charmy

05-22-2004, 05:27 PM

Bush is a FAGOT and i have a big cock

is there some releation to the two? i am kinda lost here... you say he is a fagot, and that would make him homosexual right? and you have a big cock.. are you trying to hook up with Mr. Bush? <<wow that sounds odd))

As for the draft, i think its a stupid idea, but as much as i would hate to have to reinstate the draft, we are running out of reserve men to send to iraq, and i don't know exactly how long the time in between shifts are, but i belive its a year, then you get a few years back in the U.S. before they can send you out again unless we are in a combat situation, which.. i guess we kinda are, i am not really sure, but somthing like that. so i guess really if they believe they need people, well i dunno..

and just FYI, Bush is an idiot, but this proposal was not put into effect JUST by him, he does not just come out and say i propose this, now pass it, he talks with his administration first, and if they are by a majority for it, he will propose the bill to congress. if the majority is against it, this proposal would never have seen the light of day. so don't be all pissed at bush, it wasn't just him, infact, it is entirely possible that someone in his administraion could have proposed the idea to him, and he simply agreed as did most of his other administrators, and now it is being put up for vote.

EDIT: After reading the article i came across this.

Congress brought twin bills, S. 89 and HR 163 forward this year, http://www.hslda.org/legislation/na...s89/default.asp entitled the Universal National Service Act of 2003, "to provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons [age 18--26] in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes." These active bills currently sit in the committee on armed services.

Congress = House of Reps, and Senete. The president is not a part of either, he has his own branch of government. so for all thsoe people who just posted BUSH BLOWS. read before you post, it wasn't even bushs idea, it was some fat congress men who thought it up.

tiraid

05-22-2004, 06:16 PM

I'm not an expert, but if what I heard was true, it won't matter if Bush or Kerry takes the White House. They both support the draft. I don't have a problem with the draft. It is a shame that people will be forced to fight, I wish it were not so. But the fact is, the United States has many enemies. There are many who would happily kill you just because you are American. When I say "you", actually think to yourself "me". There are many who would happily kill you just because you are American. We have a choice. We can face our enemies, or we can hide from them until we have no choice and must face them. That might not be in our lifetimes, Maybe we would just be giving the problem to our children as an inheritance. I am not willing to do that.

I am, however, against the draft. The sole reason is that women are included. I cannot believe that this nation has fallen so low as to force it's women to go to war. I was never really for woman in combat in the first place, but if a few really wanted to go, so be it. How many or you would send your sisters or daughters or girlfriends or wives to war? To be forced to kill or be killed? Have we become so confused in this country? This is wrong.

And now, for George dubya Bush. I'm not dubya's greatest fan, but I think he takes more blame than he deserves. The war in Iraq was a complete success. The occupation is a different story. I believe the partisan media is just as much to blame as the president. The media whole-heartedly backed our troops in WWII, now they criticize our military and praise our enemies. These people hold nothing as sacred on American soil. I am Christian, and never was my church or belief called "Holy" by them. Yet our soldiers in Iraq can't fire their weapons without hitting something "Holy" over there. They can't defend themselves without desecrating "Holy Ground" or "Holy" cities. The liberal media defames our allies and comforts our enemies. Isn't that the definition of an enemy? Not all of our enemies are foreigners.

I'm impressed if you made it this far on this post. My hope for you is that you have something greater to hold on to in life than the values that are pushed on you everyday. It is the agenda of the liberal to remove your responsability, replace your parents, and replace your God. They want the government to be your conscience, your parents and your God. All of this because they themselves are offended by God and His gospel.

I've had my say now. I don't want war, but I understand that we cannot allow this growing threat to multiply, and then just pass it on to our children. These are our times. They are our responsability. The enemies of the United States are our enemies. It is our responsability to end the conflict. Yet, if we are drafting our woman, is there anything left worth saving?

Memener

05-22-2004, 06:32 PM

tiraid, Nice..

I have to say I agree with you on that.....

Charmy

05-22-2004, 06:42 PM

I am, however, against the draft. The sole reason is that women are included. I cannot believe that this nation has fallen so low as to force it's women to go to war. I was never really for woman in combat in the first place, but if a few really wanted to go, so be it. How many or you would send your sisters or daughters or girlfriends or wives to war? To be forced to kill or be killed? Have we become so confused in this country? This is wrong

I totally agree, however, you ahve to realize that there are actually women out there who WANT to be able to join the army, now, ofcourse this is the draft, if the women wanted to join the army they alreayd would have, those being drafted are ones who don't want to join but are forced... which is why i agree women should be excluded.

(NOTE: This does not mean i beleive men are better than women, anyone who does should have their fingernail ripped off one by one while having a hot firepoker stuck in their eye, and having fire ants crawling down their throat. Then perhaps they would learn that they are infact inferior to women, from what i hear, most woman would prefer this over giving childbirth. Well maybe not the poker in the eye.)

reverse

05-23-2004, 05:58 AM

...and if there is a draft, deal with it and serve your country.

Pyrix

05-23-2004, 06:21 AM

superchaz216

05-23-2004, 06:30 AM

The american military has about 1 million troops, and the US is more powerful than the next 9 nations combine ( true fact).... dont you think its a little crazy when we still need the draft? I mean, we arent even taking on any top nations here,... we are taking on a group of rebels in the middle east that are a bunch of pussies and hide when we come, and attack innocent civilians when we turn or backs for a second. Canada here i come!

RangerDown

05-23-2004, 06:52 AM

Canada here i come!
Reread the post. The US and Canada have some agreements in place to curtail draft dodgers.

is there some releation to the two? i am kinda lost here... you say he is a fagot, and that would make him homosexual right? and you have a big cock.. are you trying to hook up with Mr. Bush? <<wow that sounds odd))

So that's Scoops in this clip?? And I thought it was Blair...
http://www.kontraband.com/index.asp?p=%2Fhtml%2Fall%2Fshow%2Easp%3FID%3D695

Scoops

05-23-2004, 09:23 AM

Ok im not a fagot that likes bush, im not that british fagot either for all i care the world could blow up and i wouldnt care, shit happens , wars happen, im not fucking fighting a war that was started over a fucking grudge, just because bush is a pussy, why dont fucking congress men and bush's cabnet go fight fucking pussys.

Convo. Between Bush and Congress..

Congress auctions, WTB Draft pst.
Bush tells Congress, WTS Draft, how much you want?
Congress tells Bush, We would like to kill 10,000 people.
Bush tells Congress, Why dont you go fight.
Congress tells Bush, We are pussys..and we are old anyways.
Bush tells Congress, HEY! i have the same excuse..
Congress tells Bush, So you want to watch alot of people die?!?
Bush tells Congress, No, im going to be in the safty of my home.
Congress tells Bush, Oh well we will be here in our cars and cheap suits and shity hair cuts.
Bush tells Congress, Ok then lets do it!!
Congress tells Bush, Ok then.....we will sign

The End

Im not going to canada im going to mexico =) or fucking Europe like Germany and France!!

superchaz216

05-23-2004, 12:05 PM

If you think im joking, im not, ill move. Canada, mexico, u name it, ill go there... fu** going to a war over something so stupid. I agree with with scoop, but am still confused why he tells the world he has a big wang, lol. :shock:

Scoops

05-23-2004, 12:15 PM

Cause i do!!!! Rawr!

Fajo

05-23-2004, 01:43 PM

Charmy

05-23-2004, 04:26 PM

Lol ya fuck this if we end up having to draft becuse bush has a fuckin size complex fuck this im out of here this con. has be geting ass rammed by bush sence he got into office at least clinton fixed somethin and got some head on the side bush is just pissed becuse he is stuck with that tramp of a wife of his =\

*rant off*

I will quote myself on this one

Congress brought twin bills, S. 89 and HR 163 forward this year, http://www.hslda.org/legislation/na...s89/default.asp entitled the Universal National Service Act of 2003, "to provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons [age 18--26] in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes." These active bills currently sit in the committee on armed services.

i posted this earlier, you keep bashing bush because your being ignorant, Bush didn't even propose it. the only thing you should be upset with bush about is the fact he is to weak minded to vote against his administration. and FYI Kerry is in full support of this too.

As for clinton, i would love to see him back in office, if they ever amended the constitution to allow it, he would be back in office faster than he could get off with monica down on him. I think the funniest thing about clintion is that with all thats going on (War, up comming elections, etc...) he goes and releases a book =P what a spotlight stealer. but anyway stop bashing Bush without atleast offering a reason behind it, other than he sucks, and should eat me.

s k 3 1 4

05-23-2004, 04:28 PM

[quote=Pyrix]I

Charmy

05-23-2004, 04:41 PM

Have to remember, Hitler did some mean as shit during his reign, he commited acts so horrific that only severe torture would have been a start of the things that should have been done to him, but he was a fucking weak ass shit eater who instead of taking what was comming to him, Killed himself so he wouldn't have to endur what would have been done to him. Trust me i have my list of things i am going to hell for, and when i get there i will be sure to personally torture him for the rest of eternity, and even then i won't be happy.

Do not ever think to call or assume that the leader of the most powerful nation on earth, and the leader of the free world, would ever be as fucked in the head as Hitler was. Your lucky you don't live in america becuase if you ever insulted our leader by calilng him Hitler, your ass would be kicked so hard you would wish you were in hell with Hitler.

Had i seen your post before i would have posted earlier, and incase you are even fucking curious, i take it very personal when somone dares to compare anything i respect to one such as Hitler. So don't do it again.

tiraid

05-23-2004, 05:19 PM

I have two questions for those of you that have blamed this war on dubya in previous posts.

1-) Are you aware that you have enemies that want to kill you?
2-) Do you underestimate those enemies?

President Bush has brought the war to our enemies so that it would not be fought on U.S. soil. So now only our well trained and extreemly well equiped military must fight them, instead of our citizens. Do you forget that there hasn't been a terrorist attack in the United States since 9/11? President Bush did not create a war. We would not attack if we were not first attacked. I know that is a risky statement because no one came to the U.S. and killed people while waving an Iraqi flag. I see it this way. This is not a new war in Iraq. The first war, Desert Storm, never ended. The fighting ended with the United Nations telling Sadam that he must disarm and PROVE to the UN weapons inspectors that he had disarmed. He was given a time limit, or the UN soldiers would be back. I am very disappointed in the way the UN handled it when Sadam did not comply. For 10 years he did not comply. The United Nations was created to replace the League of Nations because the League had no teeth. They were unable to back up their resolutions. Now it seems the United Nations is also weak. The resounding message around the world was, "Do as we say, or we will pretend we never said it!". The U.S. is not so weak. Even Clinton found it necessary to bomb Iraq. The perception of the occupation of Iraq is the problem. If you are one of those who believe that the radicals who are fighting the U.S. troops are patriots and the that the U.S. military are only present as imperialists; you are an enemy of the United States, whether you are a citizen of the United States or not. Our problem in the U.S. is that so many of our own dispise our military and believe that we should have no national interest. It makes no sence. Why is it that we as a nation cannot do what is right for our nation? Every nation survives by doing what is in their best interest, why not the United States?

Then there's the German that compared President Bush to Hitler. What a rediculous notion. How quickly the Germans forget. If George Bush were anything remotely like Hitler, we would have already taken over Canada and Mexico and would be slaughtering <insert randam ethnic group here> by the millions and blaming all our problems on them. People in the United States who didn't agree with President Bush would just disappear. Maybe they would show up again, broken and afraid, or maybe just their ashes would be returned to their families. Then there is the fact that both Hitler and Bush are such great, charismatic speakers... Nevermind, I cringe with embarrasement everytime Bush opens his mouth. His message is usually good and true, but I sure wish he would work on his delivery... Germany was once a great nation, full of great thinkers and artists. Now its packed full of sheeple (sheep + peeple = sheeple. Bahhhhh!). Where are the great German thinkers today? Seriously, my friend, please, please think for yourself, open your eyes and see the world's conflicts again for the first time. Weigh the facts for yourself. Remember the damage a few radicals can do (didn't only about 5 percent of German population belong to the Nazi party when they took over your country?). Remember the damage a few terrorists can do. Don't underestimate the power of who should be the enemies of all the good and free people on this earth, because you are their enemy, make no mistake.

And all of you who do not hate the United States and love your freedoms, do nothing that would impeed our military from protecting those freedoms. Stand behind them and support them. It's a shame that the greatest weapon of our enemies is us. We send our neighbor's to fight for our freedoms, and we don't allow them to use all means possible to be victorious and return alive. War is Hell. If we are bringing someone war, then we are bringing them Hell. This idea that we can fight the radicals and terrorists, but we need to make sure they are comforable while we do so is somewhere between lunicy and idiocy. So what are we? Crazy or idiots? Its kind of like our education system these days. No one can be wrong, no one can be better than anyone else. Are we afraid we will make our enemies feel bad? We can't hurt their feelings that we are beating them, so we have to back off and give them plenty of chances to do some damage and kill some of our soldiers so they can feel that they are doing well? If our military were only allowed to do so, they could end this conflict without further casualties.

Maybe all the nay-sayers here are right. Maybe we need to just call all of our military home, because we will never, never win a war outside our borders while so many enemies of the United States flourish within our borders!

Charmy

05-23-2004, 05:47 PM

Maybe all the nay-sayers here are right. Maybe we need to just call all of our military home, because we will never, never win a war outside our borders while so many enemies of the United States flourish within our borders!

wow... um.. i really don't know what to say, i mean i totally agree with you on alot of the topics, but wow.. never thought of it quite that way.

Pyrix

05-23-2004, 11:39 PM

Uii George Bush woooh.
Do you admire Georgy ?
Your whole nation contains liers.
The CIA with their "photos" and their "true" stories ....
Attacking Iraque coz of Oil and so on.
I

romoshi

05-24-2004, 04:11 AM

Dude, do you think that all of the people in Germany are related to the barbarians who lived there long ago? Almost every country has been taken from people who originally owned it. For example England was taken over by William the Conqueror making England now of Normon descent and eradicating the people who lived there before. Still though in America at least now we have given the natives homes to live in. In Hawaii the natives can live in government built homes for barely anything, also in mainland America native Americans get to make thier own rules on almost everything.

Perhaps it would be wise to look back before you try to sprint ahead.

Beretta

05-24-2004, 04:15 AM

Ok, i saw in one post that they dont think it's right that women are included in the draft. That the US has sunk low in making it's women fight.

Do you have ANY idea how many women would bitch and complain and start calling the US sexist? Women now expect to be treated as an equal to man. There would be problem after problem if they did not include women in the draft.

Second, If Bush was anything like hitler, to put it simply if your ass is darker then khacki, you would have been whacked already. Plus, I had watched a biography on the Hitler Channel (History Channel) about Hitler, and it had a section on how he was into S&M, and all that. So far, nothing indicates that Bush is into S&M. Bush hasn't whacked a number of the same beliefs and ethnicity because he did not like them. It makes me sad that the honor. The Integrity, and the Loyalty to the US from it's citizens is just a minute crumb to what it once was.

Didn't the Nick Berg video disturb you? I've seen it, and I feel that I have personally been slapped in the face by the terrorists, who basically said Fuck you America, by publishing this on the internet. Which they know is a key way to transfer information to a broad audience. It wasn't released on accident

Third, I am for this draft. I am ashamed to hear such rants and raves towards Bush because he took proactive actions against "weapons of mass destruction". Weither they exist or not. Would you rather have a reactive action by the president, when the bomb goes off in a pub . . . Oh Wait! . . . He DID take reactive actions, when they hit the twin towers with OUR OWN PLANES!!!!!

As for us starting wars all over the place. If i remember right, it was germany who invaded an ally of the US, and they called us in for help in WWII. At least that's how I was taught in US History and World History. If we had not dropped Fat Man and Little Boy on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August of 45, Japan would have sent their millions of troops into our country and we would all be speaking japanese right now. Oh and in addition, It's the history of the US to attack those who attack our soil. Do the words Pearl Harbor ring a bell?

Those who are opposed to the draft, and who oppose war. I call you pussies. Grow a pair, and defend your right to chose not to go to church. To chose your jobs. To have the freedom to do what you do today. Hell, before the US got there, women weren't even able to show their faces or laugh without getting beat.

Get off your ass and defend what many before you have fought and already died for the freedom you have today.

tiraid

05-24-2004, 08:59 AM

Beretta,

You are right. If woman were not included in the draft, some of them would complain. Here's the thing. I don't care. That very small percentage would be wrong. Oh, no! I said it! They would be... WRONG???? How is that possible, you ask? Well, let me enlighten you. You see, sometimes, people say things and have oppinions that are false. Let's see if I can break it down into smaller, chewable pieces.. ah, contrary to the truth... to be the opposite of what really is... to be "incorrect". Shocking, but it happens. If some woman want to say that such a view is sexist, so be it. Again, I don't care. If they really want to be equal, they still have the power to join the military on their own. I will not change my views on what I know to be the right thing because I fear someone may oppose me. You condemed people who were afraid to fight and die? I agree, we should not be afraid to give even our lives for our country. But if it is wrong to fear death, which most people do, how much more wrong is it to fear to do what is right because someone may contridict you? You say "grow a pair" (very eloquent), which I assume means, "be a man". Why would you say such a thing? Isn't that sexist? I say it isn't. You were saying "be a man and defend what you know to be right", if I interpret you correctly. Berreta, I couldn't agree with you more. The defense of this country is a man's job. It is wrong to force a woman to do it. If a woman really wants to volunteer, so be it. Remember Jessica Lynch? Would that have been the story it was if she were a man? No, it would not. Why did the media spend so much time on that story if they truley, deep down, believed in equality? It was good money for them because the world watched, and they watched because it is terrible to see such a thing happen to a woman. Then there are the men on the front lines fighting next to the woman. How many stupid things do you think they have done trying to defend their female colleages?

Beretta, this is not a flame against you, I was just responding to your post. I can't stress this enough, and this is for anyone reading. Sometimes, you will be told things that are wrong. You need to just ignore it and stand up for what you know to be right, let the consequence follow.

mikenune

05-24-2004, 09:25 AM

The thing is, tiraid, that women don't need our (men's) protection anymore. In fact, they never did.

While I personally find it repugnant that women would be forced into military service, I feel exactly the same way about forcing men to serve.

Personally, while I am severely disturbed by the fact that the bill has even been proposed, I honestly don't believe that it'll ever be passed. Not while this is a free country at least.

I have been proud and honored to be an American my entire life. I was born an American and I hope to die an American. America's leaders have - time and again - demonstrated that they are worthy of my high esteem and I, since I cannot vote, must trust them to make the right decision.

Fajo

05-24-2004, 11:37 AM

Guys to be honest thats the only thing that scares me My wife is only 20 I dont want her pulled from here or away from me sure if thay draft me I will go with out a prob but if thay draft her its wrong in my eyes I just dont want to have the goverment say your wife is goin wether u like it or not I personly think thats bullshit

Charmy

05-24-2004, 12:38 PM

As his name states Beretta, he is a pistol.

But it is true, the only part of the draft i am against i putting women into the draft, as i stated before i don't believe we are supireor to them, but its still isn't right. (If any women out there want to slap me for saying this please do so.)

as for pyrix

[quote]Uii George Bush woooh.
Do you admire Georgy ?
Your whole nation contains liers.
The CIA with their "photos" and their "true" stories ....
Attacking Iraque coz of Oil and so on.
I

MrJag

05-24-2004, 01:59 PM

your all lucky im not the president of the US :twisted:

but thats where the real problem lies in this country

to run for any type of office here its all about $$$DOLLARS$$$$ if you dont have them and LOTS of um you dont have a chance in hell
of getting any where in a election but as Ross Pero proved its only 80% money the other 20% is kissing the asses of all the rest of the rich bastards
not to mention the electorial collage is currupt and majority vote means squat

i bet everyone in the US knows some blue collar worker with one brilliant mind that would do a outstanding job in politics but those ppl will never ever get there ....... its not who or what you know its how fat is that bank account ..... money will buy everything! if the beatles were a rock band of today ther song would be money CAN buy me love

want to know who will win the next election of any office , just look to see whos silver spoon shined the most

RangerDown

05-24-2004, 06:22 PM

your about as qualified in the subjuect of US history as is a can of beer.

Careful what you say. Beer is very much an American historical symbol :lol:

a_Guest03

05-24-2004, 06:53 PM

I'm all for the draft. I'm a patriot, but I wouldn't volunteer to die. It doesn't mean that I wouldn't roll the death dice for my country if requested.

I've seen much of the world, and I love my home nation. Ireland is no longer my ethnic country (although it is the biggest part of my racial heritage), and I don't know that it would be any better there.

With that said, I don't understand why the draft is being instituted now. Cheers to being stronger than 10 or 11 other nations combined, but why enforce the draft? Doesn't our federal government have enough power already?

Perhaps this is being done to ensure that the ranks don't drop and that we don't become France, but with all the enemies of the world seeking to punish the punisher.

Something that everyone needs to keep in mind: Land troops, appropriately delivered, win wars. Navy and Air Force and missiles only maim. Ground troops conquer. So even if China spends less than a quarter of what we spend, they could probably still kick our puny asses, especially with the help of another of the top 10.

Mongrel

05-24-2004, 07:00 PM

Careful what you say. Beer is very much an American historical symbol

American beer sucks :(

a_Guest03

05-24-2004, 07:47 PM

*nod@Mongrel*

Prost!

RangerDown

05-25-2004, 11:35 AM

Ok, back to the topic of the draft... (and I don't mean beer this time :))

The Luclin server board has a pretty good thread that pretty much dispels all the panicking going on about this.

Basically, I agree with most of the people on that thread, it's somebody (prolly the Dems) trying to cause a big scare in an election year.

x-scythe

05-25-2004, 11:38 AM

Ranger: that makes a lot of sense. i agree. i mean what better way to get someone to vote a certain way than to scare them into it :wink:

RangerDown

05-25-2004, 11:39 AM

bah, forgot to link to the thread :P
http://www.eqluclin.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5060

x-scythe

05-25-2004, 11:53 AM

nice info on that post on the luclin forum

isamu5150

05-25-2004, 03:59 PM

The problem with this draft thing that pisses me off is the hypocritical politics that will go down behind this. People with money and power will always be able use there influience to protect there love ones from this process while we regular people have to say our goodbyes to our love ones. Where is the equality in that. Example, Bush has 2 daughters of age that would be eligible for this draft. Do you really think that Bush would allow even one of his daughters to be drafted much less be in the trenches in Iraq with our regular sons and daughters. F*** no! That would go for most of the political big wigs to.

Now, I am proud of you guys that said that you would go to fight or would be drafted to do so, hands down. Im not saying im for the draft or against it. Just that it is unfair or will be. Before i get flamed or something, i will say that i would not be eligible for this draft if it went into place due to my age. But my younger brother and sister would. I served in the first war with the US Army out of Ft. Hood straight out of highschool under another Bush. I did my share of damage for my country the first few weeks of the war. I wouldnt wish anything like that experience for my sister that i went though. I think my bro could handle it, but it wouldnt be anything like he would expect. Plus this war is much much more worse than the fighting i went through. I am totaly against the Bush family politics for my own reasons, but i would do the duty if my country required it in a heart beat. The Bush family is in the oil business. Trust me, they have or had strong ties to Opec, oil rich Arab nations, and Bin Laiden. I bet good money that family is roll it in with the high prices on gas right now. Reason i suspect this is because after the heavy fighting was over in the first Iraq war, My Company was assigned to guard large oil facilities in Saudi for a few months owned by no other than the current Pres. Bush's dad and at the time my Commander and Cheif. Your tax dollars at work. I really hope that Disney releases that film Fahrenheit 911 by that guy that made Bowling for Columbine.. Michael Moore. Lots for dirt devestating to Bush i hear.

a_Guest03

05-25-2004, 09:16 PM

Would you send family of the most powerful American overseas without hardcore protection? If they got drafted, they'd stay state-side in communication or intel or something.

You can't have a family man's family hostage to another country when he's required to think for all of us. He'll get conflicted. Any man would. Let daughter get raped and tortured, or forfeit troops and information? Hmmmmmm.

Lasiel

05-26-2004, 04:54 AM

we didn't start this war, this war started because sadam refused to show proof he had no weapons of mass destruction, this war started becuase a terriorist group crashed two planes full of americans into a building also full of americans, WE didn't start this war, and only an idiot would think that we did. Hence why you belive this.

Oh really? The US didn't instigate what's going on in Iraq? Was it UN sanctioned? Nope. So please, since you seem to deem yourself so intelligent on world politics, what gives the US the right to just wander into a country and take over based on FALSE intelligence? Where are the weapons of mass destruction? Haven't been found yet have they? Nor will they ever find them, it was complete bullshit. NO single country in the world has to answer to another, let alone the US. That's why we have the UN. Even the UN weapons inspectors are calling bullshit on it. You know...the folks that were actually IN the country doing the actual work.

As for 911 having anything to do with Iraq? Other than a remote posibility that there might have been some of Al-Qaida trained there (i.e. no definitive proof there either, pure speculation) there was no reason to invade Iraq based on the trajedy of 9/11. Nice try at bluring the lines though.

Keep eating up the propaganda machines meals of misinformation like a good little sheep.

tiraid

05-26-2004, 05:21 AM

We didn't go to war with Iraq because they had weapons of mass destruction. We went because they refused to prove that they had destroyed them as was the terms of the end of the last war set down by the United Nations. Unfortunately, the UN has turned out to be nothing more than a yappy, little dog, afraid to back up their own resolutions. It's true, that except for a morter shell containing serin gas (which is a WMD), we haven't found the WMDs we claimed were there. But, we also have not found any evidence that they were destroyed. We know that Iraq had them. They used them on the Kurds more than once. Because of this, I feel the WMD question is still unanswered. This topic has been run into the ground by both sides. I'm tired of hearing people argue about it when no one has any proof of what happened to them either way. But this is a fact. Iraq was required to show proof that their WMDs had been destroyed by the UN. Iraq did not do that. The UN sat on their hands because they are a bunch of miserable cowards who want to sit on their thrones and pretend that the world is a peaceful place and that everyone just wants to get along. I'm glad the US doesn't indulge in such delusions.

Rangerdown, thanks for that link. It's good to hear the whole story. I just hope that was, in fact, the whole story. It seems that some people in government are trying to mess with our heads on this issue. Unfortunatly, if they want to do so, they can. But, I don't blame the shadey government types as much as I blame the idiots that put them there. So, who is trying to sow fear in America?

Pyrix

05-26-2004, 07:02 AM

Charmy , you dont even know what ur country is doing.
They said they got photos from ABC-Weapons in Iraq...

Its ur own bloody fault if u admire G B

DeletedUser

05-26-2004, 07:11 AM

What those of you need to understand is there are more ways to serve your country than to go to some foreign country to blow a guys head off. War has never worked and the idea of 'serving your country' by becoming a killer is just ridiculous. As if we don't "support" our country enough with all the taxes they throw at us. You have no right to call anyone a pussy because they won't fight for this country (I would hope most people would have the moral that killing is WRONG), it should be our choice not the governments.

stclairguy

05-26-2004, 10:55 AM

What most people don't realize is this: We have successfully liberated a very tortured and serioudly supressed nation. Its almost cliche now, but do you not remmeber 9-11? Why did we go to Iraq? If you want to say conspiracy theories and say "We went for oil" or "We went cause of George Bush's Dad" or whatever you want, you are seriously ignorant. Lets look at the facts: We went to this war because of our War on Terrorism. Iraq and Sadam Hussain supported Terrorism, AL Quida, for the biggest example, adn were terrorists themselves. Look what Sadam did to his own people. Second, we went because it is our Duty and Privelage as a God-blessed nation to make sure other countries get to experience the same liberties we have: Life, health, and the pursuit of happiness. Third, it is HONORABLE and a duty to your sworn nation to defend it if asked. America wouldn't be a nation without a war, nor would any country have been successful without war. Reguardless, tehre will always be someone in this world with evil intentions wanting to harm others and take controll of everyone. What is america doing now? TRYING TO PREVENT THAT. You may say this war is evil, but according to our worlds history, and our duty to this world, this war is as important and necessary as even our Revolutionary war. One last comment. I heard this analogy a while ago, adn thought it was very on-topic. "If you point a gun at a bank robber, and he doens't drop his gun, should you leave him alone, or shoot him? You warn him again, and he doesn't do it. Should you shoot him, or leave him alone? You warn him once more, and still he doesn't. You fire, killing the bank robber. Was he not warned to put down the gun? The same happened in Iraq, as we tried to get their cooporation in the weapons inspection, they held on to their gun; and we warned; and last, we fired."

Hades

05-26-2004, 11:14 AM

How can you say it should be your choice to fight for your country or not.... i know this will sound stupid to some poeple but seriously no one is forcing you to live here... go move somewhere where you dont have to be drafted or pay taxes see how much fun you have... war is not a good thing but it is necessary sometimes. what is supposed to happen? everyone ignore Iraq and terrorism until a terrorist comes to your house and lights you on fire? i mean wtf... on the other hand i can see people not wanting to kill but you cant expect all the freedom and safety you get without giving anything back.

DeletedUser

05-26-2004, 12:27 PM

There are countries that are very prosperous which have no army. If you didn't know, until the early 1900's the United States isolated itself from tending to others problems. Obviously WWI came around and we broke that belief which was held since the late 1700's. I still find the liberation of Iraq questionnable because of the timing. Ok lets say that they did support terrorism, that it was justifyable, the main reason we went into Iraq was because of Weapons of Mass Destruction. Now this just bothers me a bit .... WE DID NOT FIND ANY!!! Bush doesn't give a rats ass about liberating a country, he changed his political stance on Iraq because he knew people would no longer buy into WMD since they couldn't find any. The fact that you are buying into his new political stance is horrible, don't be so gullable.

Honestly this was a personal thing between Bush and Saddam, he just found the perfect excuses to revenge his father. Come on hes just as human as you and I and we all know how popular revenge is. But this is just my opinion, trust me Bush does not have my vote for another term.

Shooting a bank robber? No it is not justifyable unless he is shooting someone else or you. If he is running away and you shoot him and are not a police officer, guess what, they can bring you to court. Why? Your life was not in danger.

Jezebell

05-26-2004, 01:47 PM

If he is running away and you shoot him and are not a police officer, guess what, they can bring you to court.

This goes for police officers too, they are not allowed to shoot anyone unless their life or someone elses is in immediate danger. If someone is running away and the cop shoots them that cop is in deep crap.

Shadow-Wolf

05-26-2004, 04:58 PM

as a God-blessed nation."

Ok this comment is just plain ignorant, Did god himself come to you and tell him we were blessed by him(you remind me of that vice president who always said "god bless america and noone else" on head of state)? Thats right he didn't I do love the country i live in but since when did god come to earth saying we are blessed? I am not a real religious nut either(its been awhile years since ive gone to church) but it makes me sick when some one calls u.s blessed by god, you need to realize that everything on this planet is blessed by god(or not for some on this earth do not believe in him).

romoshi

05-27-2004, 04:51 AM

I agree that the whole notion about a god blessed nation is a little conceded. Even though I'm a christian I still dont like to look at everything like my God is the only true one because my book says so. Still though as a nation with the power to put a stop to major terrorist activities we should at least try. Also though I think we should either pull out of Iraq or bomb the s*@# out of them as if we dont then they will continue to have radicals who attack us. Bush went a little to far when he declared war on terrorism, since terrorism is not really a tangible thing but an ideal that people follow because of that we'll never win.

ksmith

05-27-2004, 06:02 AM

Here is the rationale behind HR 163:
[quote]Congressman Pete Stark January 8, 2003 (http://www.house.gov/stark/documents/108th/univdraftstate.html)
It is my understanding that out of the 435 Members of this House and the 100 members of the Senate, only one -- only one -- has a child in active military service. Who are we to know the pain of war when we ourselves will not directly bear the brunt of that action? It won

mwmdragon

05-27-2004, 09:50 AM

Canadian Point of view.

It's nice to be Canadian except for all the forced french in everything sold... And french in schools... And french in total.
An I appologize for PM Cretien for not backing the USA like he should have right off the start. And I appologize for some of our musical artists (Brian Adams etc)
But one thing I will never take for granted is the ability to know that I will never be drafted into a war I do not believe in.

I know you got hit on Sept 11. I concider that an attack on canada as well as your beloved states. I respect the Old Stars and Stripes more than out crappy Leaf Flag.

When Bush first went to wat agains Bin laden, I was 100% behind him. But now that he just focuses his attention on "Freeing Iraq" how is that going to help get revenge or justice for the towers???

Bush being an Oil Baron (With daddy Bush) just shows his true intention.

The draft bill connot pass. Sure you are defending your country but think about it. The people who are over there now are people who signed up for this job. If they want relief then they are to be relieved by others who have accepted the job.

You can't sign up for a job as a janito and then as soon as they tell you to clean a really Shitty Toilet say, "Hmm, I wanna go home.. You should draft someone who didn't sign up to do this, and make them clean it up". It doesn't work that way. Sending in people who don't want to be there would be just as good as sending in scared children because the result will be the same.

In the end, they should just Ask people (Showing the dire need for soldiers) with commercials, Military TV Shows, Contests, etc. People will step forward before there is a real need for a draft.

What good is a free country, where you can't choose your fights or choose to be peacefull or not.

Canadian Point of View EH !!

Lasiel

05-27-2004, 12:08 PM

I won't apologise for Cretiens stance nor should any Canadian. 9/11 was a huge travesty, in which I lost friends whom I miss dearly, but that doesn't mean Canada needed to get involved whatsoever. Our 'big brother' to the S is more than capable of fighting it's own battles, as well as battles they have no right to even be involved in (Iraq, Korea, Vietnam etc).

As for those whom tout the WPD as the reason for invading Iraq? What's next? Pakistan or India? Hell, they're developing nuclear weapons to use on each other, but since there's no real US interests there they'll just let them nuke each other eventually and let the fallout kill anything bordering the 2.

The only time the US forces it's might, since WW2, is when it's interests are threatened. Whether the threats be credible or imagined.

And just to clarify, when I say the US I mean the government, not the people. There's a lot of folks that live stateside I know that share the same POV.

a_Guest03

05-28-2004, 01:05 AM

Image, whether we found weapons or not, it was Iraq's job to prove that they were destroyed and to document it. They didn't, so we went fishing. They had ample time.

The UN resolution states that any member state can ask for proof, and when denied, attack in a defensive measure. It has nothing to do with what they have now. It has everything to do with the last war. They didn't end it satisfactorily, and broke the rules of the UN. Thus, we attack.

GWB didn't set the rules of that resolution, so it's not like he just said, "Oh snap! Fux0r teh Irak!", and sent troops. I don't agree that we should've done it, but it's our military's job to protect us, and GWB was acting in a way that protects us.

Is it colonistic? Yes. Is it immoral to kill? I don't think so; killing has its time and its place. But idealism is hard to maintain when you have the responsibility of 600,000,000 lives.

Ajantiskillshot

05-28-2004, 08:05 AM

You guys can make fun of me or whatever but i support bush 110%
i think he is a good president and he did what he had to do.
i would be glad to join the army and ship out to iraq to fight a war for my country. You guys can call bush an idiot or a fag or whatever you want to call him but the truth of the matter is he did what was in the best interest for us and i for one respect that.

Jezebell

05-28-2004, 08:20 AM

i think he is a good president and he did what he had to do.

Huh? I hope you mean he did what he was told to do by his cabinet. Because the US had no business going to Iraq.

he did what was in the best interest for us

Get real here, maybe in the best interest of the US for monetary reasons cause thats what this is all about. This has nothing to do with Saddam being a threat or terrorism.

m0oni9

05-28-2004, 11:44 AM

Square: You're talking in circles!
Circle: You're a square!

Ajantiskillshot

05-28-2004, 12:01 PM

saddam wasn't a threat to the united states? he refused to disarm his wepons of mass destruction and gave direct threats to our country...these people were danceing in the streets celebrateing on 9/11. we kept finding tapes of threats to our country from these people. maby thats not a threat to you but i consider it a threat to me. and yes it was to the best interest of the united states to go to war with iraq. in fact the majority of u.s. citizens are bush fans. if you go out west everyone loves him just because you live on the east coast and see all the protesters and shit doesnt mean everyone in this country hates him. anyway my opinion is that he is a good president and im not going to sit here and let everyone talk shit about him. but you people can say what you want...we shouldnt have gone to war blah blah we should just wait for them to hit us with more terrorism too right? i dont think so this is the u.s. we need to fight for our rights and freedom..we cant stay the top nation without posing a threat to other ones and if we dont retaliate when something goes wrong who is going to fear us? if you people had any kind of education you would realize that bush is doing the right thing but instead you hear the words draft or death and you whine like bitches...grow up a little bit people. i would gladly give my life for my country. war isnt a good thing...of corse it isn't but it is the necessary thing. we needed to hit these terrorists before they hit us again. the u.s. is the police of the world it is our responsability to get involved...and for all of you people calling bush a pussy..what the fuck...call these people saying they are going to run away from the draft pussys..thats all i have to say for now

Jezebell

05-28-2004, 01:05 PM

Ajantiskillshot, you are so ignorant its not even funny. I wish people wouldn't post unless they had a freeking clue what they were talking about first. If you had ANY idea about what was going on you might have some points. I will go in order starting with your first dumb remark.

First off....we HAVEN'T found any WMD's!!! Second, Saddam or Iraq never directly threatened the US, if you disagree show me proof.

Ok, here is the most important one, listen close I don't want you to miss it. Your use of "these people" in many of your sentences is stereotypical, the Iraqis never did anything to us, it was Al Queda which is a comparatively small organization of extremists that were exiled from their Arabic countries and is based in Afghanistan. This organization is looked down upon by the Arabic community as a whole.

The war in Iraq is not about terrorism or Iraq, its about money, oil, and revenge against Saddam (who was an Ally of the US not too long ago [or a puppet] however you want to look at it) because of Bush senior. There are no WMD in Iraq, the Iraqi people and government are not members of a terrorist organization.

Police of the world? Who made us that? Ourselves? Pretty grand idea I think. Sounds like a way for the US to expand its influence and get more money to me. And you really think that we should our power through fear? Give me a break, that doesn't last for long, eventually enough people revolt to overthrow the tyrants. ALL nations eventually fall....Egypt, Aztec, Maya, Mesopotamia, Babylon, Roman, English, to name a few. Eventually the United States time will come and it will fall too.

You want to know why the US is the target of terrorist attacks? Its not because of religion, its not because we are the strongest nation in the world. Its because we support Israel, we supply them with money and weapons so they can kill the Palestinians and take the land they have been living on for thousands of years. The Israelis want a jewish only state and won't let the Palestinians live there equally with them witht he same rights which is all the Palestinians want, so they kill each other. The Palestinians are larger in number but not as well armed because the US supplies weapons to the Israelis because its in the US best interest to support them for two reasons: 1. Jews have a lot of power in the US and government and 2. Israel is a foothold for the US in the Middle-east where they can have bases and perform over seas operations.

Point here is that the Israelis are Jews and the Palestinians are Muslim. All of the other Arab nations in the Middle-east are Muslim also so they support Palestine. So since the US supports Israel the Muslims don't like the US government and this extremist group Al Queda is using this to rally Muslims to perform terrorist acts on the US to prove a point to the US government.

Solution:

The US needs to stop supporting Israel and allow everything to take its course there and the terroist acts will stop.

Also the US needs to withdraw from Iraq and allow them to form their own government, the iraqis will not accept any government that is put in place by the US because said government will be puppets of the US. The reason soldiers are dying everyday in Iraq is because we have military in their cities and the population is fighting against them. We have been there too long. How would you like it if you left your house everyday for work and there were military troops and tanks right outside your front door?

Anyway, thats it, take what you want from this but it is the truth from the Arabs point of view in case you want to see it from a different perspective. Alot of what we hear here in the US is propaganda to try to get the US people to back the government but most of it is biased. I wouldn't believe one thing the government in the US says about anything.

s k 3 1 4

05-28-2004, 01:23 PM

F that. I'm moving to Canada.

Lasiel

05-28-2004, 01:34 PM

Jez said it pretty damn well, no need to explain it any further to yet another sheep that feeds on the propoganda machine meals, super sized it seems.

Harinama

05-28-2004, 01:39 PM

wow, i second that, couldnt have said it any better

Hades

05-28-2004, 06:44 PM

I really think its funny how you people are such geniuses that you have the solution to the iraq problem and you dont tell bush!! omg just send him an email saying leave iraq and since he nor anyone else had ever thought about leaving iraq then they will be like OMG!!! we can just leave and they will for sure build a strong government that will help the people...

Jezebell

05-29-2004, 02:24 AM

Dude, they won't do it because it wouldn't be in the US best interest. They would lose out on billions of dollars and they would gain power over these countries. George Bush and the rest of his cabinet are all politicians, they don't care if people are dying if it helps to promote them or give them more power.

Shadow-Wolf

05-29-2004, 03:56 AM

ALL nations eventually fall....Egypt, Aztec, Maya, Mesopotamia, Babylon, Roman, English, to name a few. Eventually the United States time will come and it will fall too.

Very well said jezebell on your post above but this snippet i have to say is partly untrue, First of all Egypt did not fall they pretty much withered away, the Aztec and Maya civilizations were not tyrannical or evil(well they were evil they just didn't know they thought they were doing good to their gods) but they fell and you know why? Spanish explorers and soldiers killed everylast one of em yes a few servived but their civilization was destroyed and all their gold was stolen. Mesopotania(althought i believe its mesopotania been a while since that history lesson heh) also wethered away infact mesopotania is pretty much like todays america wemon had rights and parents could get divorced if both agreed, the only difference is they had a king. Not sure what happend to babylon but i beleave they were destroyed by a war.Yes romans tranical ways were pretty much stopped that is true. If by english you men't great briton then no, they may have stopped their kings tyrannical ways but their culture did not fall apart.

Jezebell

05-29-2004, 04:01 AM

I agree with you, but I didn't say anything about those nations being tyranical in nature, I just said they eventually all fell. What I meant was they all had great power at one time and now they either don't exist or their power is nothing like what it was. When I say the United States will fall, I don't mean it will cease to exist, I just mean that it will lose its power and some other nation will become the most powerful in the world. Its a historical process that happens age after age, its part of life and nature.

Edgar1898

05-29-2004, 01:01 PM

Second, Saddam or Iraq never directly threatened the US, if you disagree show me proof.

I wish I could give you proof, I read intelligence reports every day, if they are ever declassified maybe I can. Although I am about as neutral as anyone can be on the issue, I do think Iraq will be a better place once everything is said and done. Should we have gone to war for the WMDs? Probably not, especially since we havent found any yet, but thats all hindsight. Once we had gotten into the war, there was no turning around. I dont believe alot of what the anti-war people like michael moore have been saying, but I dont go around calling him names and shit, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, dont call people names and flame them because their view differs from your own. Doing so just shows disrespect to them and yourself.

ltlruss

05-29-2004, 03:46 PM

I agree that everyone is entitled to his own opinion. I for one support the President. If you don't agree with me, that's fine.

I don't really believe that saying we were going into Iraq because of WMD's was a great idea. But, I do believe that without sufficient proof that Saddam destroyed what everyone know he had, it was justifiable per the umpteen hundred resolutions.

I am just frustrated by the press. Everyone has been harping on not finding any WMD's and when we find a bomb with serin gas that the insurgents were using, it's just a blerb on the news and no one mentions it. It seems like everyone is so caught up on the fact that we didn't find anything over there that even if we do, or when we did, it's like the press wants to sweep it under the rug.

I don't think that because we found a bomb that had serin gas it shows that Iraq was going to create a WMD to hit us. But, it does show that he still had the agents to create a weapon if he wanted to.

I agree that there is no need to be name calling or calling people ignorant for having their own opinion. Unless you have some information that the rest of us aren't privy to, which I'm sure that 99.9% of us aren't (Edgar being the .1% that is :D ), we are getting our information from the news and what we hear around work or school. It's not going to be completely accurate.

My 2 cents

Lasiel

05-30-2004, 05:31 AM

Everyone has been harping on not finding any WMD's and when we find a bomb with serin gas that the insurgents were using

Ask yourself how they got serin in the 1st place and it traces right back to your governments front door when either Bush Sr or Regan was supporting Mr Husein both financially as well as with technology.

Edit:

Just a little history, for those that care.

1964-67: Hussein imprisoned for attempting to assasinate the, then president, of Iraq.

1967-69: Hussein joins a right wing political body lead by his cousin.

1969-79: Hussein is head of the secret service in Iraq after his cousins politilcal party usurps power, forcibly.

1979-2004: Hussein forces his own cousin out of the leadership, by force. And we all know where it goes from there.

XplayX

06-01-2004, 07:32 PM

tiraid

I just want to say... I enjoy reading your posts. If my girlfriend was ever drafted and forced into war, I would gladly take her place... even if I knew I wouldn't return. The Idea of forcing female's into battle is tyrannical.

At the moment, I am 17 years old. Should I be drafted into war, so be it. If my country needs my aid in battle, I will help. I find it completely disrespectful to those that were forced into battle and lost their lives fighting for this country, for someone to be a pussy and flee the country if they are drafted. They should be sentenced to death.

I do however, disagree with the draft for the sole reason it includes women. I also find it sad that we should have to draft, it isn't the best way to send in forces to another country, and it would include many more casualties then nescessary due to lack of training. Most would not be able to endure the hardship's of combat. Lack of supplies, no place to shower, not knowing when or if the next time you will see your other half, or your family. All those things take a toll on your morale.

Those of you that would gladly support your country if they needed your help, whether you agree with the reason or not, I salute you, for the sole reason you are defending america. Those of you that would not... leave, right now... get the fuck out. I will fuck you up in RL.

Jezebell

06-02-2004, 01:38 AM

I am sorry, but invading another country, taking over its resources, and overthrowing its government when said country did not attack us in any way is not defending our country. Those people in Iraq that are resisting the US are fighting us because we are occupying their cities with military troops, they are the ones defending their country. Wouldn't you do the same if the United States was invaded by some military force? I know I would.

Pyrix

06-02-2004, 02:15 AM

Aehm Jezebell .

I think the country belongs to Israel they have founded it and it was taken away from other arabian races.
They had no own country , no place to live.
And then they were killed by the Nazis.
After Palestina was shared into to parts , (one day after yelling out the new state Israel) Palestina attacked Israel.
Israel is very alone between all the other ARABIC countries.
It was never a fault of the USA supporting Israel !
This is the only good thing america ever done ...

Jezebell

06-02-2004, 02:49 AM

How on earth can anyone claim that the former state of Palestine, in which the people that live there have been there for over 6000 years, belongs to the Jews and Israel? Because the they lived there for 300 years about 4000 years ago as conquerors? Come on now.....

Pyrix

06-02-2004, 04:12 AM

the jews got no own state , they only wanted a part of palestina.
They didnt start the war.
Now both states are evil , they do the same shit.
But why dont give a homeless race a home ?

Jezebell

06-02-2004, 06:00 AM

Why should the Palestinians just leave their homes and move somewhere else because the Israelis want that land? If some people came to your home and told you to get out because they lived there 4000 years ago, would you?

Pyrix

06-02-2004, 06:04 AM

Its their land , they bought so much percent of it...
Before the state israel was founded the jews bought much land....

Jezebell

06-02-2004, 06:28 AM

Alright, I think I made my poinit clearly, if you don't understand I am sorry. Think what you want.

tiraid

06-02-2004, 10:29 AM

In case you missed it, RangerDown shared a link about the draft. This is the other side of the story, I don't think anyone should talk about the draft, pro or con, without reading this first. You might end up feeling a little stupid - I did :). This is just another link among countless others, so read this and weigh the facts. I no longer think there will be a draft after reading this.

Ok, back to the topic of the draft... (and I don't mean beer this time :))

The Luclin server board has a pretty good thread that pretty much dispels all the panicking going on about this.

Basically, I agree with most of the people on that thread, it's somebody (prolly the Dems) trying to cause a big scare in an election year.

Ranger down later gives this link
http://www.eqluclin.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5060

On a side note, it was said earlier that the serin gas found in Iraq was only there because Reagan or Bush gave it to them in the first place. I have no information to dispute that, and I personally don't care either way. Iraq used to be an ally of ours, then our national interest changed. The problem isn't where they got it, it's that they still have it. The UN, who many on this board think is the greatest thing since sliced bread and to whom you want to hand over the sovereignty of the United States (or at least the US military), demanded that Iraq disposed of all WMDs (includes serin). They didn't. The fact that they may or may not have gotten it from the US in the first place is irrelevant. Anyway, I think you just made that up about it comming from the US just because you liked the idea, not that there was any evidence whatsoever.

If you haven't noticed already, I am a conservative. As a conservative I admit whole heartedly, George Bush has not given me a decent reason for being in Iraq. On the other hand this is what I see. Who is it that our troops are fighting in Iraq? If you're answer is "Iraqi freedom fighters", that may be true. They may be Iraqi. They may be the average citizen who wants us out. The media sure wants to paint that picture. My problem with that is that members of the national guard upon return dispute that. They say the average Iraqi is happy with what has been done. Sure, they want the US to leave a soon as possible so they can get on with their lives, who can blame them? But they are not picking up their weapons and fighting the US, nor are they killing members of the Iraqi interrim government. The people who are fighting the coalition and the Iraqi government are using terrorist tactics - car bombs, roadside bombs, suicide bombs. They are trained terrorists. Isn't it strange, that in the war against terror, the US finds itself fighting terrorists? This is what I think. I think the US is using Iraq, again. We used it before when we supported Saddam Hussein to further our national interests. Now we are using it again to flush out terrorists so we can fight them somewhere besides our own soil, and with our military instead of with our citizens. Ousting Saddam was a bonus. Stopping "Oil for Food" money from funding terrorists was a bonus. Not being able to recover or find evidence of the destruction of the WMDs we know were there was a bummer. The bottom line is, what we are doing in Iraq is fighting the war on terror for OUR good, not Iraq's. This is my oppinion. It isn't set in stone. I change my mind whenever I hear new facts. To say that Iraq doesn't get anything good out of this is to be purposefully narrow minded (that's a good definition of partison). The people we are fighting are the ones who get nothing good out of a free Iraq. The free world should rejoice at Iraq's new found freedom. Maybe the reason Bush hasn't given a satisfactory answer is because he is just to afraid to say that we are doing this for our good.

Rabaril

06-03-2004, 01:33 AM

Image, I would have had more respect for you if you had just posted this and said, "Wtf!!!" but instead you posted that you wanted people to send an e-mail opposing the bill...

That is an abuse of influence, there are probably 100 children who use this site, who did just that, merely because you said you wanted them to...

As for the draft, War is inevitable, and sometimes a necessity. I am not going to into my thoughts about Iraq, but what is done is done... And although our armies are one of the most technologically advanced, it is not very big... China boasts an army that is quite larger than ours...

Half of these posts are as I said just mindless followers of Image and the EQEmu devs...

Most are one sentence posts, that don't really say or prove anything, they are just there to show that they are kissing ass, as requested...

It irks me that so many people feel comfortable playing "armchair athlete" with today's politics... Unless you have run a country (and I haven't either!), you have no idea what kind of pressure you would be under...

Tiraid made a good point,

I am, however, against the draft. The sole reason is that women are included. I cannot believe that this nation has fallen so low as to force it's women to go to war. I was never really for woman in combat in the first place, but if a few really wanted to go, so be it.

But, there were a few who did want to fight, and if a Draft was instated and it excluded women, once everything was said and finished, that would just be more fuel to the fire... Whoever was in office at the time, would be attacked for that... I am unsure what has happened in this country, but WE (the global community) have come to a point where if EVERYONE's views aren't being supported then it's WRONG.. And hey, screw morality, who needs morality when we have freedom of speech (which we will abuse and take out of context every day of our lives...)

Well here's an idea, get 15 or 20 friends together and try to decide on ONE place to go eat...

One last thing, and I am throwing civility out the window for this because this just pisses me off...

Pyrix - [quote]I

Lasiel

06-03-2004, 04:20 AM

Check Snopes. This whole draft thing has been declared an urban legend after they researched it. After Nam (another asinine police action) there's no way in hades they'll make the same mistake again.

nyja

06-04-2004, 12:30 PM

i sent this to my mom who sent it to as many people as she could think of and we got it to some local news places

hopefully it'll help

just scanning over the posts i saw something about palestine and israel: america should stop supporting israel

check out english.aljazeera.net for uncensored news

Rabaril

It irks me that so many people feel comfortable playing "armchair athlete" with today's politics... Unless you have run a country (and I haven't either!), you have no idea what kind of pressure you would be under...

don't be hypocritical.

Tiraid made a good point,

I am, however, against the draft. The sole reason is that women are included. I cannot believe that this nation has fallen so low as to force it's women to go to war. I was never really for woman in combat in the first place, but if a few really wanted to go, so be it.

the US has pushed for gender equality for the last century. if it excluded women, then it just wouldn't be fair at this point in time. having equal rights to men comes with advantages but also consequences.

But, there were a few who did want to fight, and if a Draft was instated and it excluded women, once everything was said and finished, that would just be more fuel to the fire... Whoever was in office at the time, would be attacked for that... I am unsure what has happened in this country, but WE (the global community) have come to a point where if EVERYONE's views aren't being supported then it's WRONG.. And hey, screw morality, who needs morality when we have freedom of speech (which we will abuse and take out of context every day of our lives...)

actually. if the US government was a real democracy and not a wealthy persons brown-nosing game, then everyone's views would matter. if they had mattered, the iraq war would not have happened.

if everyone doesn't support something, then it might just be a good idea to hear their reasoning. don't be so one-sided.

a lot of those people who died could have done great things. now they're dead.

Fuck you and the horse you rode in on... You stupid ignorant bastard...

for you as well. beside of your immaturity and ignorant arguments, you violate three forum rules. (Basic Rules (http://www.eqemulator.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=96&sid=47dd10e9e72fb4d7021c27dec595227b) - remember to read before posting!)

Bush did what no one else would, he fucking stood up against an attack, instead of fucking running away and trying to talk and pay people off (look up "Clinton, China, Nuclear missles")

iraq didn't attack the us. george w. was making up for what daddy didn't get a chance to do. afghanistan may have been justified, given al-Qaida actually exists.

Hey, you know 9/11 that everyone says was such a tragedy, it was a MASS MURDER, premeditated, if an American has done this, the entire world would have said, "Burn him on a stake.." But, since the Al-Queda were acting under "Islam's Jihad" it was WRONG for Bush to stand up to them... FUCK YOU!

from what you've said, it seems like you're linking the war in iraq to the attacks on sept. 11. the protestors opposing the war didn't think it was wrong to "stand up" to them. they just saw farther than the present and peaceful ways to go about things. who knows where this "war on terror" will go. i really hope not ww3. there are a lot of terrorists out there, certainly expanding beyond the middle east. if this is truly a war on terror and not some big public diversion of attention from something else, then i feel sorry for all the little kids growing up.

i wouldn't rule out the US having something to do with those attacks.

I'm going to stop now, because as it is going right now, I could continue typing all day...

it is a good idea to not argue on a topic you don't know much about or are one-sided about. try to keep an open mind.

i'm not defending the person whose opinions were attacked by you and i'm neither a republican or a democrat just so you know. i can actually listen to both sides of a story and then challenge both from the inbetween area to find out the truth. being opinionated like you are proves how close-minded you are.

i hope the time i took actually helps you think and find out things for yourself,not just believe everything others tell you.

this topic wasn't intended for heated arguments. it was made to support the youth of america so that tens of thousands of college age people trying to make their lives as they want don't get sent off to get shot up while wealthy politicians sit around and run a puppet show.

ltlruss

06-04-2004, 03:04 PM

check out english.aljazeera.net for uncensored news

Sorry, I just had to laugh at that....

Throughout this whole conflict, I knew that I could count on aljazeera to report what our news wasn't telling us.... I knew that I could trust their reporting to be unbiased....

Sorry, just had to say that... it's one of the funniest comments that I've heard in a while

:D

DeletedUser

06-05-2004, 08:06 PM

Well sorry Rabaril didn't know I was the new PR guy for EQEMu. Anywho, people need to understand news is biased no matter where you go and if you blindly follow everything you are told chances are you don't know the truth of any situation. This is simply questioned like so: How do we know X is true?

If your responses are:
I heard it in the news
A friend
Government
Newspaper
Magazine

or something similar, this can all be biased, or not true.

How could people on the west coast know that the two towers actually fell when they did? Television, radio, but I think everyone remembers in the early 1950's when they had a radio broadcast of an alien invasion and people really did take it seriously and ending up commiting suicide or just full out panic.

Do not take things so blindly, this is a warning to people who don't think outside the box :)

tiraid

06-05-2004, 09:04 PM

Remember in WWII how the only newspapers telling the truth came from Germany? Americans just lined up to get those German newspapers so they could know what was REALLY going on in Europe.

Here's the real problem with the US. It's not the terrorists. Not to play down a tragety, but if we really were interested in saving lives, we would ban cigaretts and ignore the terrorists. Terrorists don't kill as many American's each year as smoking, not even close.
The real problem with the US is the people who believe the terrorists. check out english.aljazeera.net for uncensored news. This is so wrong... I'm at a loss for words. Aljazeera is sympathetic toward our enemies. But it all goes back to people believing what they want to believe. People who read and agree with Aljazeera are people who hate America and like to see it degraded. These people believe nothing that America does is right. They want to give the sovereignty away to the United Nations, so they can make all the decisions, because the United Nations can do no wrong, of course. I don't understand why so many people in the US believe that everything we do is wrong and everything everyone else does is right. Where did this self-hatred come from? I perfer terrorists over these people. At least terrorists don't have a vote. If we could just be rid of all of our enemies within our borders, our fellow citizens who hate us, then terrorists could have no power over us. But our internal arguing over whether it is even ethical for us to protect ourselves gets in the way of our even being effective. Our enemies within this country are more powerful then our enemies without.

And, for the last time, I hope, I will address women in the draft. Most of you seem to agree that drafting women is wrong, but there are those few comments that bug me. Some people have said that if we don't include women in the draft (if there was one), then some people would be mad. They would make little signs and protest, maybe even burn certain articals of clothing. If drafting woman is wrong, then it is wrong! So what if someone is offended by it! You don't have to please everyone. In today's world, if you do anything and someone isn't offended by it... well, then you probably didn't actually do anything, did you? There have always been people offended by all things good. It used to be that the good people would ignore them. How cowardly you would have to be to send your wife, girlfriend, sister or daughter to war because you were afraid not to! Because you were afraid of who would protest and call you sexist! Oh no! Listen, if something is right, then it is right. Who cares what other people think. You can't let them scare you into doing the wrong thing. So answer this for yourself, "is it right for me to send my wife, mother, girlfriend or sister to war?". When you have answered it for yourself, unafraid of consequences, then stick with your answer! It's called integrety. It's called conviction! Have some!

Then there is this argument:

the US has pushed for gender equality for the last century. if it excluded women, then it just wouldn't be fair at this point in time. having equal rights to men comes with advantages but also consequences.

Again, this is so wrong, I don't know where to start. Its like you want to punish woman for wanting equal rights. A radical, fringe group of women fought for their right to be equal with men in the military. Most women do not agree with them. Most men do not agree with them. To say that woman should be drafted because a very few extreemists want them to be is ludicrous. This is the tail wagging the dog. It really is too bad that mainstream America is so quite and lets small groups of radicals have so much influence over them. It comes back to this, if drafting women is wrong, then it is wrong, even though someone may be offended.

nyja

06-06-2004, 04:42 AM

The real problem with the US is the people who believe the terrorists. check out english.aljazeera.net for uncensored news. This is so wrong... I'm at a loss for words. Aljazeera is sympathetic toward our enemies.

the reporters for al-Jazeera aren't terrorists. they're everday people like you and me making a living doing what they love best. i'm sure some employees of the news agency are sympathetic toward terrorists because of similar religious backgrounds, morals of their culture, or family origins in those areas, but that doesn't mean that they all are. you made a huge, biased generalization there.

example: david bloom wasn't a soldier even though he was crossing iraq with them. and i don't exactly like hearing about the death of a soldier, but that doesn't mean that i agree with what they're doing.

But it all goes back to people believing what they want to believe. People who read and agree with Aljazeera are people who hate America and like to see it degraded.

there's nothing to agree with about al-Jazeera. they provide news stories, not take political sides. i do read al-Jazeera when i want accurate, up-to-date news from the Middle East. you certainly never hear about how many teenagers are shot in palestine by israelis because they threw rocks at them on american news channels. wrong again when you say people who rely on al-Jazeera for news in the Middle East hate America and like to see it degraded. you obviously haven't ever looked into their news because they don't degrade america in any way.

me personally, i don't like the US government. it's always either republican or democrat and rich brown-nosing people who get elected. that's the biggest joke. it's not good to play games with something as delicate as a country with approximately 293 million people in it.

These people believe nothing that America does is right. They want to give the sovereignty away to the United Nations, so they can make all the decisions, because the United Nations can do no wrong, of course.

the united nations is a good idea. it's always better to have input from more than one source if you're making a decision that could effect the whole global population. the US government has already displayed it is incapable of making good decisions on its own more than once (similar to the way you're making decisions). most recently, the iraq war: a lot of countries disagreed with it. they were ignored and the war started anyway. so, you have radicals through the world that already have a problem with the US because they're generalizing that everyone is a christian that hates them and now its own allies are upset. not a good idea.

I don't understand why so many people in the US believe that everything we do is wrong and everything everyone else does is right. Where did this self-hatred come from? I perfer terrorists over these people. At least terrorists don't have a vote. If we could just be rid of all of our enemies within our borders, our fellow citizens who hate us, then terrorists could have no power over us. But our internal arguing over whether it is even ethical for us to protect ourselves gets in the way of our even being effective.

i don't understand why you're saying this. there isn't self-hatred because people make decisions which disagree with what the US government is doing.

you prefer terrorists over protestors with signs? head to iraq, find a group of radicals (like the ones who decapitated Nick Berg-video can be found on the internet), and see how long you're alive.

you shouldn't be so quick to shut out people who disagree. their story deserves recognition. people who protested the war in iraq weren't against protecting themselves and their country. they just didn't want it to turn into a war. the truth is, people like you are more like enemies to the country because you are apparently a warmongerer from the statements you've made.

Our enemies within this country are more powerful then our enemies without.

yes they are more powerful. they're the rich people running the government that are incapable of making good decisions everytime they are forced to make one for a vote.

Again, this is so wrong, I don't know where to start. Its like you want to punish woman for wanting equal rights. A radical, fringe group of women fought for their right to be equal with men in the military. Most women do not agree with them. Most men do not agree with them. To say that woman should be drafted because a very few extreemists want them to be is ludicrous. This is the tail wagging the dog.

i don't agree about anything having to do with the draft but if the US government brought it back, it would have to include women now. i didn't make the decision to include women, the government did--so be upset with them. i'm 17 years old and i definitely wouldn't want to go if they started the draft and i dont think other women with dependents should even be considered (though they would but be very low on the list)

It really is too bad that mainstream America is so quite and lets small groups of radicals have so much influence over them. It comes back to this, if drafting women is wrong, then it is wrong, even though someone may be offended.

you've got that reversed. those small groups of "radicals" are almost always ignored.

i'm not defending the fact that the draft is in consideration again or that women are included. but i took an unbiased look at it, unlike you and Rabaril. it's too bad you get so upset over people who don't agree with everything you believe is right. shows how much you actually read into my previous post. :D

it's good to know you're going to go through life believing everything that's shoveled into your mouth instead of finding the truth for yourself.

loozor

06-07-2004, 06:05 PM

damn, nyja is hot.

4RBob

06-15-2004, 05:44 PM

I dont know if this has been said before..

About women and the draft, its good that they are included in that they want to be treated equally, then they should be subject to everything a man is subject to. Another reason that I do not feel bad about saying this is that woman are not allowed to serve in combat. Yes, they would be drafted into the military, but they would server in jobs that would keep them off the front lines. I am a US Marine, and as long as I have been in I have yet to see a female in an infantry unit. The closest I have personnaly seen them is in communication units, which is usually well out of harms way.

The idea of sending a woman to kill or be killed just doesnt fit well with anybody including the military, so they are kept as well out of harms way as possible.

mattmeck

06-15-2004, 06:43 PM

is that woman are not allowed to serve in combat.

Think again man, my wife is over in Iraq right now doing roving patroles and doing house clearing, and she is a Generator mechanic.........

but they would server in jobs that would keep them off the front lines

There is a front line in todays battle field?

have yet to see a female in an infantry unit. The closest I have personnaly seen them is in communication units, which is usually well out of harms way.

There in the infantry now too, at least in the army. There is and has been females in the mech inf units on Fort Hood for years now, over the last couple years there starting to head into the infantry units as well, not as infantry just support roles but still the infantry's support is right with them.

My last unit was 100% mental health professionals and they were over there in fire fights and doing patroles with the MP's / infantry and there 90% officers and 80% females. So in todays "modern" battle field yes women are in harms way. Heck even the cooks are out doing patroles now.

Women have been pushing for equil rights for many years now, for anyone to say this should happen cause there women is setting that movment back decades. I wish every day it was me over there and not my wife, but she keeps telling me this is the way its sopose to be, equil means equil not equil sometimes.

Time_bomb

06-16-2004, 05:16 AM

The Draft can be good, what happens when it doesnt pass, and no one is in the army?
Were screwed =/
Hopefuly we dont gotz another president that sends us to war.

I voted against it tho, cuz no way in hell im going to go get shot at, i just say NUKE IRAQ!!!!

Chyld989

06-18-2004, 01:13 PM

While I personally find it repugnant that women would be forced into military service, I feel exactly the same way about forcing men to serve.

Yay! Finally someone I agree with!

I completely oppose the draft. I don't think anyone should be forced to go off to what might be their death. There is no reason to have to force people to fight for a country that they might consider shitty, when there are so many people that are willing to do so.

Also, anyone that is saying that women shouldn't be included in the draft (if it comes to pass) is a sexist. Someone brought up the point of "would you want your sister, or daughter, or girlfriend, or wife going off to war, possibly to die" (paraphrased quote, sorry if it's not quite right). My answer to that: Hell no. But you know what? I also wouldn't want to see my brother, or my dad, or any of my friends go to off to war, possibly to die either. Who decided that it's okay for the country's men to get killed, but if anyone mentions the same thing happening to women they're suddenly shunned. It's rediculous.

One last thing before I go: I can't believe nobody mentioned (at least in the first 2 pages, after that I got bored with people bitching and decided to post my own response) that if the draft passes, even people in school aren't safe. It always used to be that if you were currently enrolled in school, you couldn't be drafted. That's gonna change if this thing passes...
/shrug Just thought I'd throw it out there.

*NOTE* The views expressed in this post are only the poster's opinion, and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of anyone else. Because these are this poster's opinion, they are, in no way, "wrong", and any attempt to say they are will be completely ignored because that will clearly prove that you're too fucking retarded to continue living. Thank you.

Shinar Eli

06-24-2004, 02:23 PM

Couple of very nice statements are listed here. I really don't believe anyone outright says, "Hey lets draft our young men and women for a war." It is seen as a need for the greater good of our country, our freedoms, and our way of life for us, our family and friends, and our future people growing up and yet to be born.

On the other hand, the draft does push us to support our country in a way that says it means something to us. Look at all the men and women who actually gave their lives for us to establish this nation and have help defend it, or others seeking the same thing we already have helped.

As far as bashing Bush, most people sound like they listen to the media, who never give you the full and true story. There are alot of things that Bush may wish to do, but he has to have the APPROVAL of the congress to do. It just doesn't happen because any ONE president wishes it so. We give our presidents too much credit and too little credit.

As far as Iraqi, and how it is handled. If we had another nation coming to our doorstep to oust a president that was killing our people by the 100's of thousands, and gassing people we would praise them. However, at the same time, we would have those who gained from that leadership who would still be able to cause a great deal of trouble by all the terror they would cause upon the public to help, to enlist terrorist from other nations, and those still in the country. Couldn't you see the havoc hands full of people could cause all across this country to any one nations army if they wanted. Too easy to make them look bad, if they are abiding by any acts of decent warfare.

Shouldn't judge any president in a hard situation like Iraqi. It was never going to be easy helping them. They have been oppressed within and on all sides for well over 30 yrs.

Just a quick statement to the one who is German. I don't believe as many people think of Germans with Hitler in mind. I have lived in Germany for 10 years, and it is one of the few countries I TOTALLY love. The people are awesome, and the culture is something to appreciate. Give some of us more credit than that. Germany has alot to offer.

Agree concerning women. It should be choice only on serving. I think it hurts moral, and it isn't wise as a nation to send the women who have the hardest responbility on the earth to such conflicts. They have and raise our future leaders, professionals, and young responsible men and women of the nation.

Last thought, we are not accountable to the U.N. Whether people want to acknowledge it or not. The U.N. did not create our nation. The U.N. does not exist as any entity that supports the U.S. Period! They are actually more corrupt and supportive of nations that would take away our freedoms, right to own property, right to bear arms, and our rights to live soverign.

Without the support of the U.S. the U.N. would not even exist. We are and have always been the largest contributor. WHY?!

It's sad to see our nation being twisted by the media and all it's lies. Wonder if we ever had UNBIAS media in our lifetime.

That is my say.....at the moment I do support Bush! Not an easy job! Just remember....congress has not only the power to do their own thing, but to stop things he might wish to help us. They have their own agenda too.

Xeptix

06-25-2004, 08:29 PM

i'm joining the navy before i turn 18 anyways~ i dont care either way, draft = easier on the people who want to be there imo, because they're more likely to be advanced heh

Sicarius39

06-26-2004, 05:55 AM

Not to take away from the subject of drafting women, but back to jezebell's point. Arguing over whether Israel belongs to Palestine or RJfAtW (Random Jews from Around the World) is a pointless argument, and it comes down to you think one way or the other. Personally, I think the country belongs to Palestine, regardless of any UN agreement or US/Jewish decision.

When it comes to the draft, I personally oppose it since it includes women. I don't consider myself a sexist, but I do think the sexes differ in many fundamental ways. I'm not a Phyllis Schlafly, but the sexes ARE different, women are better at some things and men are better at others. When it comes to women in the military, maybe I'm conservative when it comes to this issue, but I disagree.

However, when it comes to the war in Iraq, I have to completely agree with Jezebell. It is becoming harder and harder to justify the war in Iraq, simply because all of the reasons that we (the public) were given by Fox News and MSNBC news and CNN have fallen apart. From Colin Powel's anthrax speech in front of the UN to the "transfer of power" in 4 days, the Iraq war simply isn't justified.

When it comes down to it, what country fulfill's Bush's "requirements" for invasion?

Can you guess what country I'm thinking of.....

This country has a well documented nuclear program.
This country has never signed a nuclear proliferation treaty.
This country terrorizes its own citizens.
This country herds people into refugee camps.
This country tears down people's homes in order to "root out terror"
This country commits terrorist acts against civilians.
This country is building a wall to completely seal itself off from civiilians attempting to return to their homes.

What country is it? Iraq?
Fuck no, its Israel.

Just my 2 cents

DeathMan

06-26-2004, 07:16 AM

Bush is a dumbass. Plain and simple.

JohnRev

06-26-2004, 04:29 PM

So, if the draft is truly reinstated, do you all think there will be another Hippie/Protest/Drug subculture type ordeal, to protest the war?

Fuck war...

Ehpode

07-01-2004, 08:37 AM

I got an E-mail from a friend and it had this link to a web site that gives alot of insite to what our enimies in Iraq are trying to do and what thier plans are, hope it help answer some of your questions.

http://www.insiderreport.net/clash_1-2.html

aziraphale

07-24-2004, 09:53 AM

You guys are so freaking ignorant.

Melwin

07-24-2004, 11:32 AM

You guys are so freaking ignorant.

While this may be true, it doesn't contribute shit to the thread.

Don't keep up this habit. <3

RangerDown

07-24-2004, 11:43 AM

IMO this thread needs to go to off topic. It has nothing to do with Emu.

Personally I'd like to see it pig penned but that's just my biased self :o

Melwin

07-24-2004, 02:17 PM

IMO this thread needs to go to off topic. It has nothing to do with Emu.

Personally I'd like to see it pig penned but that's just my biased self :o

Take it up with image.

RangerDown

07-25-2004, 05:20 AM

Yo! Image!

OT this sheeit! :lol:

soulshank

07-29-2004, 07:44 AM

ahhh only in the usa can we have a prez. with 4th grade grammar skills.
.... and another thing kerry protested against vietnam or should i say our troops in vietnam. hell we didnt want to be there either
he could have at least supported our troops.
even though vietnam was a huge screw up there is no reason to go against your fellow patron!
hell we might as well turn into a communist nation with either of these fools in office.

RangerDown

07-29-2004, 08:01 AM

Politically protesting the reasons behind sending troops to war is NOT the same as not supporting your troops! Don't EVER try to lump the two together, it sets a VERY DANGEROUS precedent!

And the quote at http://www.luclin.org pretty much sums up why I say dangerous precedent.

soulshank

07-29-2004, 08:55 AM

your probably right but i still wouldent trust either of them
as far as i could throw a hill giant :twisted:

p.s that link is sad but so very true...

Magicpie02

07-29-2004, 03:52 PM

Face it the draft will never be voted in again. Saying the draft will be voted in is a bunch of anti war, hippy, bush bashing propoganda. Basically saying there will be a draft is a way of brainwashing the nation into thinking we had better get the **** out of this war .
There are several reasons why it will not get voted in.
1. They would respectibley repell the voters away from the party voted for the draft the democratic and republican party would not be that stupid.
2. Its not neccesary, the recruitment system we have now is just promise collage funds and you will get poorer famllies or families that can pay for it but it would throw them into debt.
3. The constituationality and if it is just of it would be brought into question. one would argue then that they are essentilay preventing them from getting better paying jobs, putting their lifes at risk to them completly unwillingly.
4. Lets face it a good ammount of people in poltics are going for a good cause but end up becoming a zealot. Basically the anti war movement is rather blind in the detirmaitnion against war. They are against premptive wars like Iraqi. Iraq was a premptive war. I believe Iraq was neccessary. I mean Sadaam was the reincarnate of Hitler. He used chemical and biological weapons not just against Iran but against his own people! That kind of behavior was used by Hitler. Sadamm also had quite a mass graves in his country. The US ended up searching for WMs and finding mass graves. We may have prevented even more world wide deaths from a WWIII!

Heh just can't resist a political debate.