More Newbie Questions

[Lorien]

After running an EQ Fan Site for about 2 years and based on comments from my own site members, I am considering running an EQemu server. So I decided to visit and do some reading. I still have several questions unanswered that I would like to ask. Bare with me if I missed the answers to these questions some where on the site or forums.

#1 After reading the hardware specs and software I will need, I wanted to ask how is it possible to run an entire world on one machine? SoE has clusters in the general range of 1 server to 5 zones. Can someone explain?

#2 With it being only one server for the entire world, what

[Melwin]

#1 After reading the hardware specs and software I will need, I wanted to ask how is it possible to run an entire world on one machine? SoE has clusters in the general range of 1 server to 5 zones. Can someone explain?
That's entirely possible, and few people run it on more than one box.

[b]#2 With it being only one server for the entire world, what

[KhaN]

Someone here, want to make a pay-server :p

#3 What is the game play quality compared to SoE's Servers? OR What are the differences, if any, to a SoE server? (This is not a question about server classifications like legit and non-legit servers but about the actual playability of the game, the feel, the lag, the spawns, etc)
Server/Game quality of EQEmu servers arent limited at all, the general quality of the server is limited by their owners. EQEmu give you the possibility to create your custom world, and like Melwi said, EQLive clones are boring as hell.
But keep in mind that making a quality server take a while, WR is a good example of this.

[zelgar]

This is from my experience:

#1 After reading the hardware specs and software I will need, I wanted to ask how is it possible to run an entire world on one machine? SoE has clusters in the general range of 1 server to 5 zones. Can someone explain?

It is true that SoE runs very few zone servers from a single server machine, however, they have redundant systems as well. They carry MUCH great of a player base than any Emu server that I've seen. I am able to run Emu, locked so I am the only one on, from my own computer (logged in from a different computer). I am running AMD 2200+, 512M RAM. It bogs down after about 10 zone servers come up.

#3 What is the game play quality compared to SoE's Servers? OR What are the differences, if any, to a SoE server? (This is not a question about server classifications like legit and non-legit servers but about the actual playability of the game, the feel, the lag, the spawns, etc)

This all depends on how much time and effort you want to put into your own server. If your machine is a high end server, then you will notice that there will be a significantly less amount of latency. If you design your Emu server correctly, it will have the exact same spawns, loot, etc as Live, in addition to any additional things you would like to create.

#5 If I run a server, I want to be able to control access to it. No one would be allowed to log in unless I approve their account on my server. Is this possible?

There are actually several ways of doing this. If you have the time, and inclination, you could set up a firewall machine before your server in your network, then have people e-mail you with their desire to play, etc. Disallow all others access from the firewall machine, and allow those whom you deem are able to play. There are also other ways, such as what WR does.


My 2cp worth.

[Lorien]

[quote]Lorien asked,"#3 What is the game play quality compared to SoE's Servers? OR What are the differences, if any, to a SoE server? (This is not a question about server classifications like legit and non-legit servers but about the actual playability of the game, the feel, the lag, the spawns, etc)"

Melwin answered,

[sotonin]

Which is why I asked about a pay server. I much rather devote my time to running a quality server than trying to balance a full time job too.

No you can't quit your job and live off a eqemu server. For a number of reasons.

1) As soon as you begin profiting from an EQEMU server, you are breaking the law. Sure there are technicalities you could work around, but for how long before sony sues your ass?
2) The bugs in EQEMU are numerous, the game is playable but also very broken, nobody would pay to play, they would sooner go to EQlive.
-Fear doesn't work
-Bards instrument modifiers dont work
-Many bard songs dont work
-Bind wound is broken, it's bordering on working properly
-HT and LH broken
-Combat is not like live, player damage is way off. lvl 2 monk has 102 attack, etc
-Weight Reducing bags dont work
-Many haste items and mana regen items dont work

The list goes on and on.

The only thing keeping EQEMU within legal eyes right now is the fact that it's free, and they only distribute code they have written. (You must obtain the eqclient by legal means of purchasing everquest)

[cofruben]

yes you can set some zones to be pvp,but that would require some code of course.
And for connections,think you need about 2 or 3 kb/s(real) of upload per client

[animepimp]

The OS is unimportant, XP or 98 or what ever is perfectly fine. You don't need a server type OS to run a server, that just lets you run more server functions that have nothing to do with the Emu. And Visual Basic .net is not what you want since the server is not written in in Visual Basic. You need Visual Studio which includes a C++ compiler, but there is a free version and tutorials on how to get it and use it. So really the only server cost is the Hardware and a basic OS, the DB uses My SQL which is free. Then you need a good internet conenction which can be as much as you want to spend. That should be the only monthly fee after the initial setup.

When he says you would ahve a lot of work to do to make an EQ clone he means that the DBs are not completely the same as EQ, but they will probably be there soon. The real work comes in quests, very few EQ clone quests are implemented because most people hate them and want to make new ones and the data is not available to copy them accurately. Also a lot of the features of EQ are not implemented yet, most are in but quite a few haven't been written. So if you want a complete clone it'll take a ton of work btu if you want a reasonable clone it won't be that hard.

A pay server is completely illegal and absolutely not allowed to use these forums or login servers. The instant you require people to pay you are taking revenue from Sony and will be sued big time. Donations are perfectly fine and good servers generally get enough to pay for their costs quite easily from donations. But they have to be around for a while and show how good they are first. You could also do things like magic item auctions and stuff for cash, I don't think thats illegal but I would have to check to make sure.

[Charmy]

* p4 2.4ghz / 1gb ram / 120gb hard drive
* Windows 2003 Enterprise Server - Spankin' new installation, no service packs
* Visual Studio.NET 2003 - Spankin' new installation, no service packs
* Broadband Cable Internet (Comcast)
* Linksys Router


* p4 2.4ghz / 1gb ram / 120gb hard drive
(only costly thing is this, lets estimate at 1.2k if even that, i haven't priced a computer in a long time, hehehe)
* Windows 2003 Enterprise Server - Spankin' new installation, no service packs
Run linux, its free, its stable, and you don't have to worry as much about using up resources, especially if you don't run xserv, then you will have tons of open resources for the zones, remember the emu doesn't require any 3d rendering, thats all done on the client side.
* Visual Studio.NET 2003 - Spankin' new installation, no service packs
again, use linux - Gcc comes with it, the devs create the makefiles in a very generic way, only minor editing is needed, and somtimes minor code changes to make it work. but other than that, its all you need.
* Broadband Cable Internet (Comcast)
100mbs/s is $120 where i live. so this is like half of the 330. I am not sure if WR has a faster connection or not, it seems like they do but i am not sure.
* Linksys Router
4port non wireless 100mbs router costs 39.99.

so with all this, if you wanted to pay off the server, router, in a year, plus pay for the internet each month, you are looking at around $230 a month to run a server, based on that i am guessing WR has a faster internet connection, or they run more than a single server, both of which i have no idea.


Now, you will find that alot of people left eqlive becuase of the fact it wasn't free, it was costing them money. but others left becuase they hated the GM/Guides, or maybe they got banned fromt he server, either way those are usually willing to "Donate" to your cause, you just have to give them a reason too. an Eqlive clone is going to have a hard time competeing with the actual eqlive, this is why custom-legit servers are more popular becuase you can do more on them than on eqlive.

So, requiring a payment is not only breaking the law, but most people aren't going to want to pay for it, unless they see some reason that paying is going to make it better than eqlive, which in this case, a clone would not be better, it would be the same. there are ofcourse always things you can do like recreate the pre-revamp zones, which people will be more than happy to probably "donate" for , i know that if i saw the old PoM come back to eqlive, i would gladly pay for a few months just to go do the old libarary card quests, nothing in GoD or the outer planes is as much fun as hunting for libarary cards.

If you build it they will come =P you just need to build it like they want it.

[Lorien]

sotonin said, "1) As soon as you begin profiting from an EQEMU server, you are breaking the law. Sure there are technicalities you could work around, but for how long before sony sues your ass?
2) The bugs in EQEMU are numerous, the game is playable but also very broken, nobody would pay to play, they would sooner go to EQlive.
-Fear doesn't work
-Bards instrument modifiers dont work
-Many bard songs dont work
-Bind wound is broken, it's bordering on working properly
-HT and LH broken
-Combat is not like live, player damage is way off. lvl 2 monk has 102 attack, etc
-Weight Reducing bags dont work
-Many haste items and mana regen items dont work" Now this is the stuff I wanted hear when I asked what the differences are.

And since several people have told me charging is illegal, I don't need to hear it further, once was enough really. My husband is a senior designer on a MMORPG (not anything by SoE) so I already figured it was a sensative thing to ask about, but seeing as this entire site is probably frowned on by SoE, I didn't think it would hurt to bring it up. I can handle donations just fine. I just want a server my membership can be happy with. SoE isn't going to do it and they give me more "we can't" or "we wont" type answers than solutions and alternatives even after the Summit. I am just not sure how I will be able to pull it off, which is why I am hear asking questions.

[Cisyouc]

You went to the Summit and now you're interested in EMu? Yeesh, thats when you know Sony has done it in. By "some work to do" he means alot of packet collecting, source editing, etc. The databases out there are pretty good but not near complete. And if you're good at C++, you can begin to work on the bugs in EMu. Remember that EQEMu is rarely up to the latest patch, so if you have a large fanbase newcomers may not easily be able to log in.


Also, remember that EQEMu doesnt come with any quests, you have to make them or have your staff make them >.<

-edit- Personally, I think I would donate to see a near-perfect EQLive emulation. But I dont think anyone has the motivation to do something as big as that when they can make something they made up on their own.

[Lorien]

I can neither confirm nor deny my attendance at the summit. =P It's enough to say, I've absolutely had it! But damn it I feel responsible to my membership. I started something 2 years ago when I bought my domain and I have to finish it.

And someone needs to put a leash on Absor..... nuff said.

[KhaN]

I much rather devote my time to running a quality server than trying to balance a full time job too.
Living from running an eqemu server is an utopic idea, even with a VERY good quality server, for all the reasons that where argued top.

I started EQA project for some of the same reasons as you Lorien; because there are a lot of peoples that dont like EQ Gameplay but like EQ, and they are seeking something different. Thinking you will build your server, and that the players will come, is one more time utopic, because first, build your server will be a real challenge, dont reads, days, week, but read monthS, and maybe yearS.
My project is somewhat, more ambitious than yours, mainly because we are totally rebuilding EQ, but dont think building a clone server is easy, i think its harder than totally customize a servern because while players play, they will have to feel they are playing EQ, and this wont be really easy, mainly because is on some parts, like showed melwin, very broken, and as your server will have to be eqlive clone, you will not a have a way to bypass them (Only one would be to have a strong C++ knowledge *shrug*).

Also, keep in my mind concurrency exist, even on EQEmu, there is also a project of EQLive clone server called PEQ, and they have a lot of advance on you (DB almost complete, and they have a staff working on quest).
Im not saying its impossible, something is impossible only when you decided it would be impossible, but dont think it will be easy, lots of peoples tryed to create the server you want to build, and all failed actually.

Good Luck :)

[sotonin]

Also, keep in my mind concurrency exist, even on EQEmu, there is also a project of EQLive clone server called PEQ, and they have a lot of advance on you (DB almost complete, and they have a staff working on quest).

Actually, we at Project EQ only create databases. We use stock (pretty much) eqemu code. So all the bugs in eqemu are on our server.

But yes, we've come quite close to a complete database. although it still needs a lot of work )

http://www.peqserver.com

[Melwin]

It'd almost be faster to hand-craft your own world than it would be to get all of Live's content packetcollected.

Also, you need someone with serious C++ abilities, or your server will flunk. Stock EQEmu code is bug-ridden and not to be used for any kind of serious server without heavy modifications.

As for your hardware questions, we just rent a box from ev1servers.net

[Lorien]

Based on what I've learned in the last 24 hours, I can see how it would be easier to craft your own quests, drops and such. I had assumed that the emulator was backward engineered in a way that all that stuff was there.

So, am I to understand that it's a "blank" world and that I need to place all the NPCs, spawn times, pathing, program the quests, control drops, tweak for balance all on my own?

If so, are there sites/people out there who supply files/code with some of this already done allowing me to tweak it and customize it, or am I back to being on my own with it?

I do not know C++ and neither does my husband, though he's much farther along than I am. He's a game designer already with a pretty sweet job. I could consult with him of course, but C++ is not his forte.

[KhaN]

So, am I to understand that it's a "blank" world

Its not completly a blank world, you can download a decent DB (Check PEQ website), a few quests (Check forum "quest" on eqemu boards) to start, but lets say it, its only a small part of a server, this will need still a lot of work, A LOT to have a decent and playable server.
Having a "blank world" is one of the power of EQEmu, yes, this involve more work, but on the other side, this involve you can customize all the aspects of your server.

Mostly, yes, you will be on your own, but nothing prevent you from recruiting a staff of peoples that will work with you on your project (Look like you will need C++ coders~), but like always, finding "good" peoples is the hardest part in making a project (Well, its only my opinion).

[Melwin]

Without a C++ coder, your server will be completely dependent on the rare official updates from the devteam.

You don't want that, trust me.

[Lorien]

I know. I do not intend to do it unless I can do it well. I'm just here asking questions & looking for solutions, if any, to any short commings. In order to make any future decisions on this, I need to have all the information I can get.

[Cisyouc]

By the way, LDoNs dont work (You can #zone into them, but you cant spawn like an adventure recruiter).

However with some knowledge of perl and utilizing the quest globals one could write a script for LDoN Recruiters.

[Charmy]

The one question you want to ask yourself before doing this type of a large scale project, is why are you doing it?

I understand that you want to make an eqclone with a better GM program, more events, and such, but you have to really ask yourself deep down, why you want to do this.

Is it for friends?
For yourself?
For Money? (Mind you if its to make some extra cash your looking in the wrong place)
Or perhaps you just want to have the power that the Gms at SoE do?

Reguardless of the reason, you need to figure out what it is.

You will notice that most if not all of the quests you find on these boards will be slightly customized to the person who wrote it, what i mean is, you will find that standarizing your quest system will be difficult unless you write them all yourself, otherwise you will find that debuging them will be difficult, and as is much the same with the server code, as melwin said you dont' want to depend on just the genearl stock release, these are put together with working bug fixes, which you then can merge into your own code, without custom code you will find your server is difficult to keep alive without you constantly there to check on things.

If you really are trying to create a true eqlive clone, you will have to develop alot of systems that haven't ever been touched by the emu before, or atleast i haven't seen any servers with them, such things are the PoP flag system, there are alot of things that go into this system, namly you need to keep track of who has what flags, you could use perl to keep track, but you would find your qglobal table to be quite a mess if you did so, you would probably want to code in your own system right into the server, that has a way to communicate with you sql database and its own table just for pop flags, you then have to be able and have the world around your characters change depending on these flags, things like the wood figurine, you would have to devlop your own code so that this item would react to the amount of pop flags a person has, you would have to set keys into the zone points on the PoT and each time someone clicks it has to check if they have the flag, somthing that also is missing from the code right now, physical keys work (i.e. an old bone key opens door A, this works but i don't believe that invisible flag type keys work, could be wrong but not sure), you would have to have the seer react to the flags, in which case you would need to develop a new perl command that reads this seperate pop table, if you choose to do it that way. plus you would need to develop a new command so that the planar projections would be able to set the variables in this said table.

So you see there is a TON of work to go in to making the simple flag system work like live, LDoN system would be even more difficult becuase of the way the recruitment system works, and the GoD even more, you would have to develop the code to cause the GoD adventure window to react to the number of ppl in the adventure. etc...

Now, don't let this dicourage you, i can tell by the way you talk about it that you more than have the mind to do this, its just that you have to realize how much work is needed. I do not doubt that you could do it, i mean if the idoits at sony can make it work, then i am sure you can, its just that somthing this large scale would take months to get working, unless you were a C++ guru, which you might be, you haven't said whether you were or not, but even so, it would take quite a while to work it all in, plus you would have to keep up with the updates SoE makes, unless you wanted to say stop it at GoD and keep your server without OoW.

So in the end, you would have an amazing server. but there are people out ther who don't like to beta test things, they like the finished product, these kind of people are annoying, they get mad when stuff doesn't work even though tyou say your still Testing =P. and as such they will not be ones to help you with yoru cause until they see some results, in other words you will have people who will want to help, or maybe donate, to the work in progress, but others probably will want to see a finished product before investing anything into it. which means you will be running off your own wallet for a while until you get the server in a decent working condition.

Based on what I've learned in the last 24 hours, I can see how it would be easier to craft your own quests

depends on what you mean by this, your own as in your own version of an eqlive quest? or your own as in new quests? you will find that new quests will be mroe fun becuase you get to make it up as you go, however like i said eariler writting your own eqlive clone type quests will be easier that using those already made, becuase you will understand how they are suppopse to work.

A few quests i would love to see on an eqclone would be the old PoM libarary card quest, i mentioned earlier, i used to spend days collecting cards and getting the flowers of functionallity, i loved those, and they sold well on FV =P until the revamp. quests like these you might be good to recreate, however quests like the plactery quest, <shutter> which take FOREVER to complete, you might want to change, or revamp. or just create your own quests which is the best bet, its more fun, and easier becuse you don't have to keep to the rules of eqlive.

So, am I to understand that it's a "blank" world and that I need to place all the NPCs, spawn times, pathing, program the quests, control drops, tweak for balance all on my own?


Most of the databases out there include the drop tables, i beleive. correct me if i am wrong someone, we don't use the pre assembled ones on EQA. but i think they do, as for pathing, i also think that is int he databases, however again i am not sure. tweaking for balance is very possible, but you msut remember the databases are HUGE, tweaking one mob at a time would take you a very long time, however repoping all of eq would take even longer, so that would be up to you.

I know i have talked for a long time so i will finish up and say, this would be aswome to see a true eq clone, lots of people have said they are doing it and never actually do, becuase they don't have the people, skills, or time to do it. based on the way you sound in your writting i believe you have more than enough skill and ability to do it, so i would lvoe to see this work out for you, however you are looking at a ton of work, and you will need some good staff.


Best of Luck to you.

[gottasummer]

After running an EQ Fan Site for about 2 years and based on comments from my own site members, I am considering running an EQemu server. So I decided to visit and do some reading. I still have several questions unanswered that I would like to ask. Bare with me if I missed the answers to these questions some where on the site or forums.

#1 After reading the hardware specs and software I will need, I wanted to ask how is it possible to run an entire world on one machine? SoE has clusters in the general range of 1 server to 5 zones. Can someone explain?

#2 With it being only one server for the entire world, what’s the player capacity limit? If this number is rather small, can it be increased through additional servers? What if I wanted to be able to host 100 to 500 players on my server?

#3 What is the game play quality compared to SoE's Servers? OR What are the differences, if any, to a SoE server? (This is not a question about server classifications like legit and non-legit servers but about the actual playability of the game, the feel, the lag, the spawns, etc)

#4 Running a server would be a full time job, not to mention the hardware and software upgrades that will cost over $3,000 plus maintenance, up keep and managing a staff if you're lucky enough to get volunteers. So my next question is, does anyone charge a fee to play on their server? If so, how is it done OR is there a way to flag an account as able to play for 3 months (one month, one year, etc...) then expire?

#5 If I run a server, I want to be able to control access to it. No one would be allowed to log in unless I approve their account on my server. Is this possible?

#6 Can I customize the "user agreement" splash page for my server and it's rules?

#7 I may want to customize user status. Is this possible?



Thank you in advance to those who can help by answering any one or all of the above.

Um
#1 yeah as long as it aint an old 486 or a P1, P1 may work but I think P2 minimum.
#2 You can edit it, its all open source so yeah u can change it... and yep thats the odd thing, there are more than one servers in the list.
#3 Well you can customize it, your the server administrator, do whatever the hell your want, your god in your server.
#4 If you want to you can charge I guess, SOE wouldnt be that happy... but you dont need to constantally upgrade hardware, this isnt a blazing fast GUI with graphics and stuff, its an advanced console program, thats all to it, run it on your home PC if you use COX or Comcast, I do not recommend using something like roadrunner. If your really gonna spend that much money just go to www.managed.com and get a server.
#5 Yep
#6 Yeah, but I dont know about splash screen.. other than that, yeah I think so
#7 Stats, yeah, status, i dont understand.

[Charmy]

#6 Yeah, but I dont know about splash screen.. other than that, yeah I think so


Sure you can Macroquest has it when you are running it before you login to eq. it replaces the eq screen with one that says Macroquest across it.