Hosting Providers

[jenco420]

Any dedicated server hosting that you guys would reccommend? my server is getting pretty populated and my connection can't handle it O.o so any points in the right direction would be awsome.

Also anything complicated that i would run into setting up the server?

[trevius]

I don't know much about getting hosting, but I would imagine it is expensive. Which server do you run and how many players have you seen on your server at most? Being able to handle a large number of players doesn't always require dedicated hosting. I have seen as much as 85 on mine and that is just running on a PC that I had laying around that is a few years old lol. I imagine if I can get some of the zones running on my main PC, I can probably break 100+ players.

I mention this because I run my server from home and it works just fine. So, maybe you don't actually need dedicated hosting. It is much cheaper and probably somewhat easier to manage from a home PC. The most important things in running a server are Upload Speeds and RAM. On my server right now, I have 1.7GBs of RAM and 1MB upload speed. If you can get upload speeds that fast or faster in your area, you should be able to handle numbers to be in the top 5 or so servers as far as population goes.

Of course, if you were already aware of all of this, I apologize for derailing your thread slightly. I am interested to hear of decent hosting and prices on it.

If you have any questions on getting your home PC tweaked to handle a certain amount, let me know.

[jenco420]

that's the thing i start lagging out around 30 players =( and more thry to log on but can't. i've seen some hosting provider's for as low as 8 bucks a month. but like my mom says you get what you pay for ~.~. i was just wondering what other people used.

[Asphixiate]

Trevius, what does it cost to upgrade to that kind of upload speed? Using just a standard cox connection hosting from my computer, players on my server are constantly crashing when they zone, and I suspect it is because of my upload speeds.

[trevius]

My internet connection is something like 50$ a month. I was getting 5MB down and 512k up and I found out it was only 5$ more a month to upgrade to 10MB down 1MB up! So, of course I couldn't pass that up!

I use Charter. But there are many alternatives in my area now for really nice speeds. There is Charter Cable, Multiple DSL companies, and even AT&T offering fiber, and all of them offer speeds about the same as my internet now. I would imagine there should be more choices in your areas as well unless you are in a remote location. Don't forget that you are looking for high UPLOAD speeds. Your download rate doesn't matter. Your server will use maybe 1/5 the download that it uses compared to how much upload it uses.

One thing to help tweak the server is to make sure you are loading many dynamic zones (I run 50 now). And make sure to set a wide range of ports on your router to have at least double as many ports as you have dynamic zones. So if you have 50 dynamic zones, you might set port ranges in the router to 7000 - 7100, but you could even set it to 7000 - 7500. You can also try my zone resetter quest which will clear player ghosts out of your zones, and that makes your server stable for a longer amount of time. You can find it in the Custom Quests section of the forums here.

There are many other things that can cause you to waste the bandwidth you do have. One of the problems to look out for is large zones with a ton of spawns. Especially if you are using a zone as your "server base" like Nexus or PoK, try to make sure they only have the characters that your server needs. Well, that is if you are making a custom server. This is because popular zones mean alot of players and the server sends out updates to all players in each zone normally 1 time per minute on seperate times for each zone. So, if you have 500 mobs in a zone and there are 20 players in it, it has to send location and other information out 500X20. This will cause spikes in CPU usage that you can see on your server if you open windows task manager pretty clearly.

I recommend trying to use smaller zones for customizing and very small zones for your server base like Nexus or Guildhall or something. That way, you can have 20 or 30 NPCs in the zone and not have it seem empty. And if you have any extra mobs in a zone you are customizing, removing them does help. I know when I redid PoValor, it somehow had all of the NPCs from PoTranquility floating out in the middle of nowhere. So, I just removed them all.

For server hardware, RAM is the most important thing. The more RAM you have, the more stable your zones will be. The only other thing to worry about is CPU. But, I have heard that a nice NIC and Router don't hurt either.

That's all I can think of for now.

[trevius]

that's the thing i start lagging out around 30 players =( and more thry to log on but can't. i've seen some hosting provider's for as low as 8 bucks a month. but like my mom says you get what you pay for ~.~. i was just wondering what other people used.

Hosting for 8$ a month is probably just web hosting, which is for making websites. If you want hosting to run an Emu server, you would need a different kind of hosting which is quite a bit more expensive. I am pretty sure about that.

[jenco420]

http://www.hagenhosting.com/plans/professional.html

Is what i was looking at 20 bucks a month + a setup fee does'nt seem to bad... i dunno tho ~.~

i dunno what the upload/download speeds are so that's what is holding me back atm.

[mattmeck]

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Web hosting, you need a dedicated server.

[Luminarius]

If Verizon operates in your area you should definitely look into getting FiOS (their new fiber optic network). It's pretty blazing fast and the price is not all that different from DSL. We have 15mb down / 2mb up which should be more than enough for a popular emu server in my opinion. Ours is around 50 bucks a month. Home PC with FiOS would be ideal.

[jenco420]

thanks for the help matt and lum =). new at all this ~.~

[trevius]

If Verizon operates in your area you should definitely look into getting FiOS (their new fiber optic network). It's pretty blazing fast and the price is not all that different from DSL. We have 15mb down / 2mb up which should be more than enough for a popular emu server in my opinion. Ours is around 50 bucks a month. Home PC with FiOS would be ideal.

2MB up should be enough to get 150 to maybe even 200 players. For that many, you will want a pretty beefy server and probably want a secondary zone server to share the load. But if you are staying below 100ish players, you should be able to handle it just on a fairly nice PC. I would recommend at least 2GBs of RAM.

[fault]

dedicated boxes and VPS are extremely inexpensive. I use 1and1 for all my needs, I have hosting, a vps and a dedicated from them.

Their vps(Virtue private servers) all come with amd dual core opteron 1.75ghz, ram varies from 128MB dedicated with 256 bursts to 512MB dedicated 1024MB bursts, space and monthly transfer are extremely good for the price and 1and1 all hosting/servers are on a true 100MBiT pipe. which you don tpay extra for, you dont pay extra for 64bit support or plesk either. You also recieve a free domain for the vps. Currently they have a special (ending in 7 days) if you sign up for a vps 3 you pay 1$ setup and 3 months free.


The dedicated servers are great, from 99 to 399 a month from single core to quad core, no less then 1gig(99$one) and up to 8gigs(399$one) of ram.


link (http://www.1and1.com/?k_id=16482531)

total experience with this host: since 2005 with Bussiness hosting, Developer hosting, VPS3, and a root server 1.

great thing about 1and1 they have lax terms you can do anything you wish on your box as long as it isnt something like terrorism.


and Im sorry with my knowledge of running servers, you cannot run a lag free server with a 2MBiT uplink you need atleast a 10MBiT, but it is preferred you have a 100MBiT

[trevius]

I don't know how much experience you have with running an EQEmu server, but you can certainly run a lag free server with 2MBits. The size of the upload only limits the number of players you can have on your server before connection issues start.

My server runs lag free even with 85 players on and that is only with 1MBit upload. My previous internet upload was listed as 512k, but I got more like 750k and I could handle about 60 characters before there started being connection issues. So, I would imagine that 2Mbits would handle 150 just fine and maybe more. At that point, server hardware is more important to keep stability. Ideally, a separate zone server should probably be used for every 75 players you have, depending on the power of the servers.

I never see any lag on my server since I started using my zone resetters to clear out player ghosts every few hours from popular zones. And I hear that Linux doesn't even have the ghosting problem at all. The only things I notice when my player numbers get really high are that zone crashes happen more often and sometimes player have trouble getting logged into the server.

Maybe if you are talking about EQLive server player numbers, then yes, of course you would want 100Mbits. But I see no reason why any EQEmu servers would even need 10Mbits currently. None are even close to the numbers to require that. Of course, overkill never hurts lol. I definitely wouldn't complain if I had 10MBits upload to match my 10Mbits download.

[mattmeck]

1.5 up is enough for 150+ people easy.

Its the processor + Ram thats needed at that point.

[TheLieka]

If Verizon operates in your area you should definitely look into getting FiOS (their new fiber optic network). It's pretty blazing fast and the price is not all that different from DSL. We have 15mb down / 2mb up which should be more than enough for a popular emu server in my opinion. Ours is around 50 bucks a month. Home PC with FiOS would be ideal.

That's what our server is running now - I can verify that it's amazing. The wacky part is - it's cheaper than el cheapo consumer cable. Verizon is really trying to gobble up as much market share as they can - and from what I've seen and heard, they're doing a pretty damn good job.

I have a T1 into my house currently, and that's what we started hosting with, but when we hit around 120ish people, we started getting random disconnects, and wacky bugs, etc. I thought I was having an issue with my firewall (Cisco ASA 5505), then looked at the bandwidth usage, and sure enough - we were capping it out. I thought it was impossible so I kept testing it for about a month, trying to see if there was anything else that could be doing it, but unfortunately I was able to verify that it was all from the zone servers. :(

Shortly after that, I had some major shit go down at work, and didn't know if I'd be able to keep on the project, so one of our staff took over the hosting - and the fucker got FIOS.

One unintended side-effect of FIOS though: It makes you realize how tiny your epeenir was before you got it (or in my case, how tiny my epeenir is compared to Gronkus's). :(

;)
Dax

[jenco420]

thanks guys i decided to get a FIOS connection =). Will report back with the results.

[fault]

But if you read the terms of use for any isp, verizon,comcast,qwest,at&t etc you will find the fine print of *you may not use their service to run or operate any type of server application.*


For what you pay for them, and what you will pay when you are caught, you can get yourself a decent vps or dedicated on a 100MBiT pipe

[trevius]

But if you read the terms of use for any isp, verizon,comcast,qwest,at&t etc you will find the fine print of *you may not use their service to run or operate any type of server application.*


For what you pay for them, and what you will pay when you are caught, you can get yourself a decent vps or dedicated on a 100MBiT pipe

Please paste a link to that policy for all of those providers if you are going to make that claim. I do believe that they might claim that they don't recommend it, but I highly doubt that they would make the claim you suggest. I have never heard of such a policy before. And, I highly doubt that running an EQEmu server would give them any legal recourse against one of their customers.

[trevius]

Was that really 5 minutes to edit my post? Seemed more like 2!

The only reason they wouldn't recommend running a server from their services is because most servers require a static IP and almost every ISP uses DHCP, so there is always the chance your IP can change after any DHCP release/renew. If they provide you access, bandwidth and an IP route-able on the internet, I see no reason for you not to do whatever you want with it as long as it is legal. Do you have any idea how many people run some time of server application from their home PC through their ISP? Most technical people have ran one type or another at some point in time. Even P2P could be considered running a server from home if you want to be picky about it. Where do you draw the line? Post a link to a court case that was actually won from an ISP while you are at it.

I am not trying to start a debate or pick a fight. I just won't want what you said to scare people away from running their server from home.

[mattmeck]

Verizion = allows it
Comcast = allows it
Time warner (road runner) = allows it
ATT = allows it

They are the providers I know for a 100% fact allow it.

[fault]

Comcast 100% doesnot allow it. I have had them since they took over AT&T in my area 7 years ago. Read their Terms of Use.

use or run dedicated, stand-alone equipment or servers from the Premises that provide network content or any other services to anyone outside of your Premises local area network ("Premises LAN"), also commonly referred to as public services or servers. Examples of prohibited equipment and servers include, but are not limited to, e-mail, Web hosting, file sharing, and proxy services and servers;

Expressly prohibited stated right in comcasts use policy.

Time warner:

If I receive HSD Service, I agree not to use the HSD Service for operation as an Internet service provider, for the hosting of websites (other than as expressly permitted as part of the HSD Service) or for any enterprise purpose whether or not the enterprise is directed toward making a profit. I agree that, among other things, my use of any form of transmitter or wide area network that enables persons or entities outside the location identified in the Work Order to use my Services, whether or not a fee is sought, will constitute an enterprise purpose. Furthermore, if I use a wireless network within my residence, I will limit wireless access to the HSD Service (by establishing and using a secure password or similar means) to the members of my household.


Verizon:

Restrictions on Use. The Service is a consumer grade service and is not designed for or intended to be used for any commercial purpose. You may not resell the Service, use it for high volume purposes, or engage in similar activities that constitute such use (commercial or non-commercial). If you subscribe to a Broadband Service, you may connect multiple computers/devices within a single home to your modem and/or router to access the Service, but only through a single Verizon-issued IP address. You also may not exceed the bandwidth usage limitations that Verizon may establish from time to time for the Service, or use the Service to host any type of server. Violation of this section may result in bandwidth restrictions on your Service or suspension or termination of your Service.

AT&T's site is so gayed up I can not located their Internet terms of use, Just their website Terms of use.


the 3 terms I quoted from can easily be gotten to from the ISps website or searching "Acceptable Use" Followed by the ISP name. They clearly state you are not to hos a webservice or a server on the line they grant you access to.

Edit: and to be clear, there is NO Residential Internet service provider that allows their customers the use of servers, web hosting or the like. It is in everyone of their terms of use, which noone seems to ever read.

[TheLieka]

I won't lose any sleep.

Dax

[jenco420]

i'm shivering in me boots

[mattmeck]

Just got off the phone with Comcast, there terms of use change depedning on the area you live in.

It is aloud here where I live (low population, wont effect others) but not aloud in say Chicago, so check your area.

Time warner allows it, thats what my parents have had for years, and I have hosted servers there, also had it in texas and was able too.

Verizion, allowed it in my area, you actually need to sign into your account and read your terms of use for them, same this as comcast, if your in a high populated area you cant, low population area you can.

<<<also if you spend the extra $10-20 to upgrade to business class you wont have this issue, any business class is able to host.

[AndMetal]

I think this is getting a little off the original topic, but I would like to point a few things out:


Time warner:

If I receive HSD Service, I agree not to use the HSD Service for operation as an Internet service provider, for the hosting of websites (other than as expressly permitted as part of the HSD Service) or for any enterprise purpose whether or not the enterprise is directed toward making a profit. I agree that, among other things, my use of any form of transmitter or wide area network that enables persons or entities outside the location identified in the Work Order to use my Services, whether or not a fee is sought, will constitute an enterprise purpose. Furthermore, if I use a wireless network within my residence, I will limit wireless access to the HSD Service (by establishing and using a secure password or similar means) to the members of my household.



This is basically saying don't use the Internet connection as a backbone for any kind of dial-up connection (think RAS on Windows Server or Dial-Up Server in the days of Windows 98). It does state not to use it to host websites, but it doesn't say anything about servers (like E-mail, gaming, file sharing, etc). There is also no terminology, like in the Comcast one, that indicates it's not limited to just those. So, unless there is some other terminology in there that I'm missing, I fail to see where they won't let you run a server.

To be honest, the reason that ISPs say this is, if everyone was doing it, their networks wouldn't be able to handle it. This is part of the reason upload speeds are capped as low as they are. I feel stupid because there is a saying that you learn in Networking classes (a something-something rule) that basically says a small percentage of your users use about 90% of your resources. That's just a fact of network administration, and what networks are built around (well, at least in a general sense).

[Knightly]

I feel stupid because there is a saying that you learn in Networking classes (a something-something rule) that basically says a small percentage of your users use about 90% of your resources.

I think you're talking about the 80-20 rule. In Networking it's said that 20% of your users use 80% of your resources.

There's also a joke about it...something like: 80% of your users know how to turn on a computer 20% of the time.

[trevius]

My main point was that you aren't at risk of any legal action being taken against you unless you are hosting illegal services from your home, which EQEmu is NOT. There is no legal recourse for hosting a server so people don't have to worry about getting taken to court over it. Sure, the ISP may be able to terminate your service if they actually found out and cared, but the chance of that are even extremely low if any.

The only reason they even care at all is because they don't want to oversubscribe for an area and then have to upgrade their own bandwidth. All networks provide services to customers that in total are many times over what the network can actually handle. They do this because the chance that everyone on the network will try to use all of their bandwidth at the exact same time is extremely low. But ya, if everyone ran a server in your neighborhood, there would be a problem lol.

[TheLieka]

ISPs aren't in the business of suing their subscribers. The worst thing they would possibly do is ask you to purchase one of their business lines - to which you just say "no thanks", and move on.

Dax

[circuitdragon]

Sorry to keep this going in this thread, but I work for a wireless ISP. Our TOS does include a server clause on our network, BUT with certain terms. A home server doing nothing more than being a server, OK...a WinXP (98,2000, etc) with a P2P app running as a file share server = disconnect BUT only after certain bandwith usage. A business server on a residential account? Fine, but no static IP, nor any priorty service if the connection fails. Point here is, its still all about how you use your connection. The TOS for any provider only serves as a legal ground for them to make any decision up to and including discontinuing your service.