Group Issues:

[So_1337]

I suppose this request is more directed at Derision than anyone, but he has PMs turned off, so it winds up being made in public =P

A lot of frustration is based around the way that groups function currently. You wind up unable to chat if the group was formed in a different zone and someone was subsequently invited, and groups frequently need to be reformed.

This is more a question than anything -- is the current system of functionality we have for groups a work-around? Or is it simply buggy because we don't have some op_codes plugged in correctly?

I've seen a few different people (Derision, mainly, though) doing some really amazing work with op_codes lately, and was just wanting to see if the group system is as complete as we can make it. From what I understood, the main reason for raids not functioning was also to do with missing op_codes.

I really hope this doesn't come across as me volunteering someone else for work, I was just wondering what sort of state these systems are in and if there's an easy fix that can flesh them out fully. Thanks for any help taking a look at these.

[KLS]

The major reason for raids not working is that like groups they're a complex system that would have to interweave with an already less than stellar group implementation and various parts of the server. It's just messy and complicated. We pretty much have most if not all group and raid opcodes outside of some leadership stuff; at least for titanium.

[So_1337]

That's all I need to hear, then. Raids are absolutely superfluous, anyway, and if groups are as good as we can make them then that's the most we can ask for. Thanks for the reply =)

[Derision]

A lot of frustration is based around the way that groups function currently. You wind up unable to chat if the group was formed in a different zone and someone was subsequently invited, and groups frequently need to be reformed.

I've never looked at the group code, so I have no idea what the problem is, so you were probably better posting this publicly :)

I'll have a look at it when I am done with the task system, which will be a while.

[KLS]

Server's just sending wrong packet sequence; same issue as when the creator of the group couldn't talk until he zoned. Difference is this is the first I'm hearing about this bug.

I guess I should also mention I'm not sure why. Client is way picky about group packets ><

[KLS]

Appears leader isn't being set when you change zones, only the zone where the group is formed and world knows who the leader is. We use the player profile for characters already in the group so they work fine from zone to zone mostly. But new invites in a zone that is unsure of the leader sends the leader as null and the client seems to go "well I've been told i have all these group members but the group has no leader so i must not be in a group". Which is retarded logic but we can fix it.

[So_1337]

That would be excellent. I suppose that since this had gone by as it was for so long, that I thought it was something that was as good as it was going to be. Thanks for looking into it!

[KLS]

Got this one issue fixed but also have to deal with...

Players invited to a group wont learn members that are out of the zone and the members out of the zone wont get member updates. Some serious group de-sync issues that I need to fix as well, person who implemented this system didn't think this all out. -.-

[So_1337]

Yup, seems there are still kinks, but just tested the new build and it's a huge improvement =)

If you need any help testing this, please let me know. I'm of the understanding that you do a lot of your testing and work on your private server, and that you might not have a population at hand to test a few of the variables involved. We're more than willing to help out, just give us the scenarios you'd like tested. I'll /log everything.

[KLS]

Just need people to identify problems with how groups work.

[So_1337]

It sounded like you'd already identified a few of them. Here's one we tried, though:

I formed a group with player A in one zone.

Zoned to another zone and invited players B and C while player A stayed behind.

Players B and C could speak in group (a huge improvement), but player A's chat would sometimes come through and sometimes not.

After player B zoned (we're now spread across three different zones), player B could see his chat go to group, but the group couldn't see it.

Again, though, it sounds like you already have a pretty good idea of some of the problems, and I'm pretty sure this falls within the realm of what you'd described above. ("Players invited to a group wont learn members that are out of the zone and the members out of the zone wont get member updates.")

[KLS]

Basically this problem has to also do with poor implementation, if the group member isn't found then send a message to their name via world... but we wont have their name unless we've previously been in the same zone. Just silly the person who did these initially did not think this stuff through at all.

[Angelox]

A long time ago, when i first started out on Everquest Live, the groups help up even when the player went LD . Server would actually wait 10-15 mins before giving up on the LD player (I Imagine it was a way to keep a group together on zoning, even if the player went LD).
Sony nerfed this because there was some sort of exploit some players figured out.

[KLS]

Some more group changes inc; hopefully they work close to perfectly after the next update.

[trevius]

That sounds awesome! So, once groups are ironed out, does that mean that work might begin on Raids? If the systems are similar and if the raid system can be based on the new group system, then maybe Raids wouldn't be too far off. I am sure many people would love to see raids working :D

[KLS]

It's not really new, just fixing the problems with it.

Raids could be done but it's a little bit more complex so we'll see. Have to keep track of all the groups involved where they are in the raid, people in raid but not in group, master looters, raid leaders etc all across zones.