Project 1999 <> Rallos Zek

[Digitala]

I am at this moment crying out to Project 1999 staff members
to please consider hosting or in anyway help
in the creation of a working oldschool PvP server.

Right now there is no pvp server worth playing on.

Posting this because i want the discussion.

[trevius]

You know P99 has their own forums? If you want to request something from them, I would suggest there.

[Digitala]

You know P99 has their own forums? If you want to request something from them, I would suggest there.

1: I am not requesting anything right now. I am only trying to get a discussion going.
And it just so happends that P99 is sitting on the key for this debate.

2: This is Eqemulator forum. Where would i get a discussion going about this other then here?
P99 forums would probably just bash me because 90% of the playerbase on P99 is against PvP.
I want everyone on EqEmu to be able to talk about this. = Eqemulator.org/forums

[Huppy]

I am at this moment crying out to Project 1999 staff members

That was the quote that led viewers to "think" you were addressing the
Project 1999 server staff. But if you look through these forums, you will
notice that the "PvP" server concept has been discussed a lot.
This one in particular :

http://www.eqemulator.org/forums/showthread.php?t=29519&highlight=server

[Digitala]

Are you trying to derail my thread?

The reason i am naming Project 1999 is because they are
the only once who have a solid old world database.

And yes i have seen that post. I would say around 300 players
on the EqEmu would like to play a PvP server.
But there is no good PvP server.

So PvP players like myself leave EqEmu.
Why? Because there is nothing worth playing.
I only see possibility in an Project 99 PvP server.
Server would be swarming with players. Everyone i know would play.

I just really want to have a serious discussion about this.
Can it be done? Or is it just a dream?

[liquest]

so basically your saying you want PEQ to start up a secondary server like old world PVP?

[Digitala]

so basically your saying you want PEQ to start up a secondary server like old world PVP?

Basically yes.

[liquest]

i see how your posting here, but if your directing P1999 you create the server i would bring up with their GM's vs on here. but i see why your posting here, your trying to see if anyone else can make a old work PVP.

[Lane]

I'm sure it'd be possible... I don't know anything about the creation of servers, but I'm assuming that duplicating a server is simple because many servers have Test Servers. Using the same code, the same everything, and just enabling pvp sounds really easy, however, I highly doubt P99 would be willing to do such a thing. Why? Because they don't want less of a playerbase, no server does.

So the only hope is to have some devoted developer/coder/team to create this pvp server, which is very unlikely. The pvp community is tough... I only play everquest for the pvp, but due to unbalances and several factors a big chunk of people don't like the pvp.

[Bamzal]

My friends and I are in the same boat as you Digitala.

The PvP populatin is dying off right now because there is no where for us to turn.

If I could copy/paste P1999 PvP I'd do it in an instant but looks I'm going to have to start coding tonight and maybe I'll have something worth playing in a year.

[Sakrateri]

make your own server and stop whining to everyone else....

[Digitala]

make your own server and stop whining to everyone else....

Thx for the input. Very constructive....
You obviously don't know anything about PvP on EqEmu.

But that aside, me and a friend of mine just started working on a server.
It's gonna take awhile before we can lunch and we can't promise anything.

Saw Mr: High-End Rogean talking with Voidd on vztz forums. So i guess they could be starting something.
But that will probably take time since Rogean already has P99 to work on, with Kunark release and all.
And i have no faith in Voidd as a Server OP for obvious reasons.

You are all gonna have to wait a while before anything major is gonna happen.
Peace!

[haynar]

If p1999 does put up a pvp server, it will not be because you wanted it. You want it so bad, put it up yourself. There are a ton of headaches that come with a pvp server.

And don't spam up the board here about it. You can bug me about it over there, but I will just ignore you. You are not helping your cause by posting about it here. Quite the opposite in fact.

Haynar

[Sakrateri]

You obviously don't know anything about PvP on EqEmu.


LoL, you obviously do not know what your talking about then do you, I not only know about it but I have two PvP servers going and three PVEs running. It is whiners like you that only certain people are invited to play them though. Oh and 1 server running that uses the client from 1999 and im not talking project here.

[HurtinuDaily]

It is really too bad that a small portion of the PVP player base has ruined it for everyone else. It is bad enough that they made VTZ unbearable to play... but now people are afraid to even touch a pvp server due to the rep these select few have given the pvp community.

[Smedy]

It is really too bad that a small portion of the PVP player base has ruined it for everyone else. It is bad enough that they made VTZ unbearable to play... but now people are afraid to even touch a pvp server due to the rep these select few have given the pvp community.

You can blame the community, but i think the staff is ultimately the ones to blame for how bad vz/tz turned out. They were the ones not listening to the single few who were trying to save the server and ultimately wiped it over and over again for various reasons.

I'm still a firm believer that vz/tz died with the wipe that occurred at the end of 2009.

If Rogean takes on this project to make a PVP server (I really hope he does) i expect him to wipe both the staff & database clean. I don't think anyone want to play under the same staff that ultimately showed that they cannot make the right decisions when needed to once more.

I think a pvp server would do really great in the right environment. First of all you need that slow P99 style exp to prevent people from cheating. How does slow exp prevent anyone from cheating? Well it's simple. People who cheat takes risks doing so, they know this. If they get caught, they usually just roll up another character on another account since it only takes them a week or two to get max level. With a huge exp time sink cheaters will give up quickly if you have proper logging & active GM's.

With the cheaters out of the picture and a solid GM crew that rules with justice and iron fist + p99 grind exp, i think you'll filter out the bad seeds very quickly and end up with a pvp community that enjoys the pvp aspect of the game but still can be mature about it.

[revloc02c]

I am not a PvPer so I am just wondering if someone is kind enough to provide some brief answers:

It is really too bad that a small portion of the PVP player base has ruined it for everyone else. It is bad enough that they made VTZ unbearable to play... but now people are afraid to even touch a pvp server due to the rep these select few have given the pvp community.
What did they do?


There are a ton of headaches that come with a pvp server.
And beyond some bad members of the community, what are some of the other headaches?



I am just curious about how some in the PvP community got such a bad rap. Thanks in advance if you take the time to answer.

[ChaosSlayerZ]

IMHO PvP server is one type of server, where player's drama NEVER needs to be addressed by GM :)

You have a problem with someone? Kill them :)

[Smedy]

I think i can partially answer this.

PVP players are naturally very competitive and will go very far to win, this means breaking some / all of the rules.

Attempting to police a PVP server takes it toll on the staff as you will have to listen to many different stories but you can't be sure of which are true etc, ultimately this leads to burned out staff.

What happened on VZ/TZ wasn't really anything of a surprise, the server was wiped 4+ times and eventually casual players left and the only ones still playing were the real hardcore ones.

I don't think it's necessary to fear the pvp community, we ain't that bad. Just rule with the Iron fist and make sure you're not corrupt (cause that shit will come out eventually and when it does there's a shitstorm).

I think a big mistake was made on vz/tz part where they kept everything very secretive, not letting the community know who had done what, who was banned, why they were banned etc. I think if they were more open to let us know what was going on a lot of people would have stayed. Many left cause they though things were corrupt behind the scenes and no one could really prove them wrong, rumors spread fast and can have a huge impact if no one stops them.

[ChaosSlayerZ]

well thats the thing, outside of handling obvious exploits - why police PvP server? Let them kill each other =)

[Smedy]

well thats the thing, outside of handling obvious exploits - why police PvP server? Let them kill each other =)

They actually tried the "No Rules" for a little while but i don't think you can imagine how competitive people on pvp servers are, the casual pvp players left the server cause they were getting corpse camped for hours and being chain trained since there were no rules.

You do want certain rules in place, like no training, corpse camping etc, but those rules cannot be hardcoded, thus policing is required.

[ChaosSlayerZ]

well there are few options you can do without hard coding:

-declare some zones (like some cities) to be no combat - so there is some place relatively safe

-via player.pl file you could say cast Divine Aura on a player who just been killed, which will last until he recovers his corpse

-you could also remove corpse recovery - so players respawn with all their gear. But if you want to institute a penalty, upon death you could run a script that:

-will remove a certain amount of plat from dead player and give it to his killer
-if no plat was found, a random item removed, while random item is given to killer.
-Amount of plat will be based of your level

so you get same kill-reward, just without having corpse issue in between.

Basically try to handle via scripts as much as possible so there is as little artificial rule enforcement as possible.

[Smedy]

I guess more stuff can be hardcoded then i though, then again i've yet to play on a pvp server which utilizes these things.

My hopes goes for the incredible team behind p99 to take on the challenge of making a pvp server, i know for a fact that it's harder to make a pvp server and the pressure from the community will be bigger, but if someone can take this on it's clearly the p99 crew as their server is an amazing accomplishment compared to what sony does with their so called "classic progression" which is just a normal build but they lock the zones (No real rollback to classic).

[TheLieka]

Legit PvP servers on EQEmu are a massive pain in the ass if you have any intention of integrity. Since the EQ client is so easy to hack (and I use the term "hack" very loosely - since the vast majority of it is MQ, with a few people fucking with their spell file mixed in), you spend all of your time chasing down these loopholes and exploits, and trying to implement server side counter-measures for them. After expending all this time and effort trying to make the field more level, the staff realizes that they just spent an absurd amount of time, and still have not refined the mechanics or content for which they had set goals.

Every player to plays PVP doesn't hack, but most of the names that you see frequently on the forums do. It's not necessarily because they are bad people (though I wouldn't rule it out), but it is so easy and so tempting. Once other players get wind of it, they start looking for ways to hack as well, then the average new player needs MQ just to compete.

VZ/TZ did not suck when it was actively being developed (though it was FAR from perfect). VZ/TZ sucked when the developers burnt out from dealing with this bullshit day after day, month after month, and year after year.

The P1999 staff are not green, and they know what they're doing. To the rest of you entertaining the idea of starting a PVP server, if you want your developers and staff to stay, either 1) avoid building a PVP server, or 2) expect to spend a sizable chunk of time combating MQ2 and other exploits (and still being told that you are a useless fag for not addressing all of them).

THAT is why you don't have any PVP Servers to play on. :)

<3,
Dax

[Smedy]

You don't get to deal with less bullshit just because you run a none pvp server, in fact.. you might have to deal with more bullshit.

It's clear that anyone that tries to counter hacks through server side measures are wasting their time. What needs to be done is to have a application that somehow hooks up to the server and auths a logon, without running this app on your machine, you won't be allowed to play.

And this app can meanwhile scan for third party hooks (mq2, myseq etc).

Rogean did post in high confidence about stopping all hacks, and i believe if someone could do it, it would be him. I have a hard time thinking anyone could stop ShowEQ tho, but then again i'm thinking 99.9% of the population don't know how to setup such a system anyway so it's not a huge issue.

After a Smedy funded campaign towards a red p99 interest has been showed by the staff, but no real word yet.

We have managed to recruit our greatest developer of all time on VZ/TZ (Null) to help see this come to life as well. From what i've been told we will get more information once Rogean & Crew is done polishing Kunark for the live version of P99.

Hopes are high, we need a pvp server that's for sure!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCP2yRUj3to <- p99 blue vs p99 red