Lets Make a Mega Server!

[Glasswalker]

Question:

Why don't we all try and organize a mega distributed server system? with even 10 computers distributed over the net we could run 2 zone servers a piece and have a huge server farm running (in comparison to the current offerings) hehehe... if we could get some kind of permenant distributed server system up, and allow people to sign up as zone servers and link in, anyone running a zone server stable for more than a week gets gm status... we could work out the details later, all I am saying is that it would be easy with this emu design to develop a distributed network... if everybody that runs a server now could dedicate 2 zone servers we could have a huge server running... even if they could pitch in 1 zone server, the machine would be able to handle many users per zone, and we could still have tons of zones up...

if anyone is interested in this send me an email at: glasswalker@cogeco.ca

I would like to hear who might be interested...

oh and I have about a dozen friends that would run servers if they see some interest first... the problem is they don't want to be the first... so if we can pull together the server will grow, and we will attract more users too :)

[TheClaus]

Not sure if that would work because of the database server being hit across the network. Good luck though.

[Glasswalker]

Possibly if mysql could be set up to run on each of the servers running... But to simply replicate changes, similar to the way that windows 2000 domains replicate the active directory over a WAN link...

[DeletedUser]

You could properly startup the zones, it would take a while, you send about 15 megs of information, but I believe there is a bit of information when the zone first starts up that stalls the server (Which then the client disconnects because it does not want to wait)

[TheClaus]

15 megs. GOOD GOD!!!

I will be happy to have my own private eq for friends.

[DeletedUser]

items are 360 bytes each, 32000 items, 11520000 bytes roughly 11.25 megs just right in items. Funny thing is, at one time we use to send it to each zone, now emumemshare only requests it once, made a big difference :)

[Trumpcard]

So, what the hell is IPCs ?????

[DeletedUser]

You only know if you were in the chat room last night :D

[Glasswalker]

Yes I know the db data the zone file requests is huge... but what if there was a mysql server on each zone server... that way there is a copy of the database locally, no network based copying... and changes to the database are replicated to all the zone servers to the world server and back again, to sync up the data every 5 minutes or something... and if only the changed data is synced that keeps traffic to a minimum... This is how win2K handles active directory shares between domain controllers, it can't have every user authenticating and such back to a single server, the WAN traffic would be huge... so it has local domain controllers for each lan, and these sync up the changed data with one another every once in a while... The active directory can sometimes be as big as 50-100meg but it replicates fine over dialup with no real big performance hits... if microsoft can do it I am sure we can at least make a stab at it?

[Trumpcard]

Theoriticially it wouldnt be hard to set up, there are a few ways to do it.

1st, start off with 2 servers, each using the exact same database, each running 2 zones a piece. With mysql clustering/replication, you could keep these in sync, but this would be a bit slow, one acts as a master, the other a slave, so data updated on the slave might not be immediately available on the master. The better solution would be a 3rd log database that acts as a replicator, it gets posted the sql transactions on the other servers, which get immediately sent to the other servers in the clusters, so its pretty immediate in terms of data transfer. The mysql pipe is pretty thin, so a few mysql write transactions a second arent going to kill you in terms of bandwidth. Especially if you consider what changes in mysql, the data that is going to change is going to be player related mostly, so thats about the only data you need to pass around. You're not going to be passing around npc data, zone, items, etc, all that will be replicated initially when you set up the cluster. You could change those directly in the log server, and push it out to the servers. This kind of replication is pretty common.

Heres some information on a simple master/slave replication.
http://www.ls-l.net/mysql/

Its shouldnt be hard to set up, and it does have the benefit of allowing you to focus all your bandwidth on a single zone or two.
If the zoneserver is optimized well enough, it should be able to handle the load of 20+ players in a zone, but thats just an educated guess.

The hardest part would be getting the people together at the same time, and getting them organized. It's like herding cats...

[Glasswalker]

Interesting... I was pretty sure you could do replication in SQL...

This is good... so it would not be a huge bandwidth hog on the servers to do this...

if you organized it as:

1 machine for worldserver
1 machine for sql master
and then 1-2 zones per member server from there in...

Interesting... we will have to look into this further :)

Oh, and also... have you ever actually tried to herd cats? it isn't easy... hehehehe... it is funny... but not easy...

I figure if it is realistic to do, we could get a domain name up for the server, and a basic website... then hand out subdomains to "members"

People would have to take a 1 week "application" phase to get member status... during that time a simple script is run on the server to ping the host and simulate bandwidth spikes over time... as long as the host stays reliably up for a week or so, then they can join the serverfarm as member... after another week as member server, they then (if stable) get Lead GM status...

This way we can weed out the newbies that want to join in for the fun of it but can't run a stable server...

If this works it could be kickass...

Combine that with a new db update, and I almost have my db filter utility ready which will accurately filter out all dupe spawns automatically...

I think realistically by the time basic pathing is done on the emu, we could also have a 90% complete DB filtered out for dupes, and running on a decent 24/7 serverfarm for everyone to enjoy!

Now we need to rally some supporters :) hehehe...

here kitty kitty kitty :) hehehehehe

[Trumpcard]

Actually, the best way to do it would be each mysql server configured as a dual master/slave.

They would push data around to one another... Each would be set as a slave to all of the other masters, and each of the other masters would be one of it's slaves. The connection map on this thing would look like something from a spirograph....

The more you have, the more bandwidth your going to consume in the traffic obviously, but until you get past 4 or so, I don't think it would be to bad.

Thats pure conjecture though, but once again, pretty minor cofiguration setup change on the part of the sql servers.

[PhunkyBeard]

ooo... cool...

[Zetareticuli]

That would take determination and teamwork, but in the long run would be worth it. I am all for it and will contribute as much as possible. Just let me know.

[Trumpcard]

Once there is a good, clean database that everyone agrees on as a base, I'd be willing to try it out. Im using it like that now on my linux/windows machines, I run a mysql server on my windows box, and its easier for me to replicate the linux server than it is to connect to my linux mysql server using eqadmin.

[Murthrin Emrys]

I would be more than happy to dedicate a computer to 1 zone, unfotunately my cable company doesn't allow a large amount of data transfer so I would lose my subscription if I did this. However in a couple months or so I should be switching providers to one with more bandwidth and the permission to do this. I'll keep you guys updated.

[zerjz]

If you guys ever did get this server up and running, I'd be more than happy to switch over and GM it for ya. Not sure if this project is still in the makings, it's somewhat of an old post. Anyway, lemme know.

- Zerjz

[elbartoman99]

If you guys have not forgot about this 'megaserver' may i suggest not making it legit PLZ

[tynaeya]

if this actually can be done and is still alive and kicking i too would be willing to donate a server for a zone or 2 :)

If you guys have not forgot about this 'megaserver' may i suggest not making it legit PLZ

This has me tongue tied, dunno what side to be on. Heres the deal, i would love to recreate the Everquest world making my own footprints in freshly laid soil instead of following all those footsteps of everyone else. #Cast and #Castspell would have to be disabled! Most definately, and really if you try it out the AA points cause MAJOR lag when adding points really fast and disconnect the players from the server. Its not human to put in AA points when you can just summon items like rwtest ac ring. If you dont want the mega server to be legit play on a mini server.

Im not trying to speak for everyone here but i can log into any server and #level 65 and #summonitem anything i want at any time. What i would like to see is a new community of Legit Questers that wish to rebuild norrath and create their own version of history. When you have 100 level 65's in the same zone there is nothing to kill therefore there is no need for 100 people with same gear. Legit servers on the other hand require a few more players to equal the ammount of skill required to level. Hence the MEGA server idea, for ALOT of users. You see what im trying to say?

I know you want a big server so you can talk to anyone you want and stuff, but hey... we (legitzorz) actually NEED those players on our server so we can progress forward in time. Thank you for your time and i am now passing out.....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Glasswalker]

Hello there everyong... long time no see...

I have not been involved in the eqemu community for a month or two now, but it is great to see that my idea to run the megaserver is still alive and kicking...

I am still interested in doing this, the problem being what was mentioned before... We NEED a good stable database first... because constant database updates being replicated over the internet is unreasonable...

I am still very excited about trying this, but we need a more finished DB first...

Also I have allways thought of it being a legit server...

I planned on setting it up so that all players only have the abilities of players on real eq. And the only GMs there would be would be permenant server owners...

but I agree completely, if we can create a real copy of norrath and make it capable of supporting many players, it could be alot of fun, and we could rebuild the world our own way... Have the ability to alter content to the users whims and all around have a good time without:

A) Paying
B) The control of the corporate opressor (AKA Verant / Sony)
C) The bore of doing something that has been done a million times in an old dying world

Anyway... KEEP THIS TOPIC ALIVE!!! PLEASE!!!

If we can build interest in this idea, then when the time comes that the DB may be ready, I can see the EQEMU world migrating to a true alternative to paid EQ play...

Thanks,

Talk to you all later!

(And hope to see you online sometime...)

[pogoism9]

If i can get it through my router, i'd be happy to host 2-4 zones

[Lucid]

Hmm sounds like a plan... well i dunno bout the uber leet programing and network stuffs but you get it running to were i can put servers onto it or something i could prob have 2 zones running on one comp and 2 zones running on the other...dunno cant login atm patched on accident and it fucked up my emu so gonna have to wait a while lol alright cya dudes



Lucid

[Lucid]

oh snap this is old post lol uhm yeah anyway *cough*

[fwiggles]

i'd be happy to have one computer running a zone or however much, i'm gonna be getting a crappy P2 233mhz and gonna give it some ram and have it runnin eqemu server but if this is a go, i'd be able to have one goin all the time.

[fnemo]

233 wont be enough *coughs*

[fwiggles]

lol not even 1 zone huh...figures lol

[DeletedUser]

pfft i have a p2 233 mhz server, it just needs a lot of ram.

[Glasswalker]

Wow... who would have thought this thread would last this long...

I started this months ago...

Anywho... I am still interested in running this, and many people have proposed interest in running servers...

The database replication needed is possible... And as long as the machines are on good stable connections with low pings it should work...

With the amount of support I have seen, we should be able to easily support 15-20 zones simultaneously...

One thing I think we would need to do is weighting... that would need to be done at the code level... Somewhere in the communication between world and zone server, the zone servers should be weighted to allow for proper load balancing between them... that way the machines with lower pings and more resources free can grab up busy zones, leaving the smaller less popular ones for slower servers...

With that all in place this could easily work...

So Lets Rally Support People!!! All those interested please email me at glasswalker@cogeco.ca and I will take a tally of actually interested people, I will work on either gaining developer support for our venture, or doing it myself...

The database is relatively mature, and should work allright...

And we are capable of many features to make it fully playable...

Lets make this happen!!!

[singalots]

Hmmm.....This looks fun/confusing. I havent even been a member for a day yet, but i think i will stay for more then a couple of days hehehehe.... On this "Mega Server" we will still be able to #summonitem right? (or all of those things) :?:

[Glasswalker]

Actually I was planning on making the mega server normal... so no summonitem or other god like commands...

you will still need to play like normal on the sony servers...

Basically it is exactly the same as sony servers, just free :)

(allowing summonitem and other commands is great for a kick now and then but it makes it not fun for the actual players out there that want to play for real)

However the rules will probably be a little more slack than sony server :)

[singalots]

Thats cool, free too Hehehe thats better. more exp per kill will be nice :D i havent even been able to get past 32nd on EQ, thats why i wanted this Emulator...

[lord_aiden]

Yeah I hope this would be a legit mega-server...I mean being God is fun for a few days, but it gets boring afterawhile....

--Aiden

[singalots]

Ive never been God though :(

[moonphoenix]

Sign me up :D

But my webserver only is only a 2Gb P4, with 512Mb of ram. Don't no if thats big enough to be of any use. My router kicks ass though, (Overclocked & water cooled 100Mhz Arm-5 chip)
My downtime is 30secs a month (I like to clear out the routing tables)

The only major thing its doing is sharing a few thousand files on kazaa, and Id gladly shift that elsewhere to run some zones (Can I state a preference for the faydark?)

[Tugurce]

That webserver is P L E N T Y :shock: ! I can run upwards of 40 zones on my Athlon 1.4, but only if i dedicate it to that purpose alone. I think your 2Ghz can handle 2 or so :D .

[Karikaru]

but but but i like summon items :(

[Tugurce]

I like summonitem but i like item creation in general. When you are a lvl 65 warrior dual wielding 100dmg 5dly weapons that proc Strike of Solusek and Can o' Whoop Ass you are havin REAL fun.

Froak?
Fffrrroooaaakkk!!!

[Karikaru]

ya! or it would be real cool to have free weapons in each armory like in qeynos spawning on the ground :P and they should make realistic EQ like killing each MOB lvls you :P and if you kill a merchant he drops like 5k pp! and magic items should be uber like glow or burn and stuff and kill non boss creatures instantly :D

summonitem i s a lot of fun too cause the WORST part of eqlive was trying to lvl up from low levels :/ and having no money and no anything.

[cam0l5]

out of the years i played eq i always waited for a new server to come out so i could be one the first people to create a guy on that server and have people the same level as me fighting all the way to the max level...but everytime some person would have there high level toon transfered from a different server and would screw it up for all the low level people that are trying to work hard to start over on a new server. if this server isnt legit it would be the same way...oh well just throwing out my opinion so there it is...later 8)

[singalots]

whens this "Mega Server" gunna be up? i got it working... or is it already gunna be up?

[Ultra]

I'm willing to dedicate my computer to a mega server.
I can host 2-3 zones, if needed.

655MHz Intel Celeron
512MB PC133 Ram
1.7mbit download/256kbps upload Cable.


Ultra :twisted:

[viroodiemzero]

I would be more than happy to dedicate some space & bandwith to this, cept my present comp is just seconds away from being an antique :( In the future When I make my first comp, (approx 3 months from now) Id sign up then to dedicate some space.

As for the server, Yeah, EQlive should be the theme, But a lot of variations on that theme. Nuts to the #summonitem, But #zone would be a good feature to allow players to have, Along with rudimentary GM type features, such as #goto, Not for the purpose of making players Uber, but giving players the ability to take care of certain GM type problems, on their own. But nothing thats going to allow a player to quickly ding, or boost stats, or have unfair advantages against NPCs. Part of playing EQ is the challenge in it.

Content is Key, So with such, if there is a server like this, Id like to put forth the suggestion to have the content follow the expansions of EQ. Reason , and example, Guild wars is prolly the most like a normal EQ server, with content, drops, ect. But there are places , where the drops are not correct, and set up with either nothing for drops, or blanket, server wide, random drops. It takes a ton of time, to assign each NPC with appropriate loot tables, ect, So work on putting proper gear on right NPCs, of each expansion, Once your happy with EQ:Core npcs having for the most part everything they should have, Move on to RoK expansion, and code over time. Either that, or get really deep , down into it, and start creating new content, New items, from scratch.

Another suggestion, Quests from old expansions , Kind of got outdated with each new expansion, (with a few exceptions) So in stead of having to go thru a quest to get an item, that is going to end up being sub par, Place the quest resulting item, As a Drop, on one of the last NPCs involved in the quest. Example: Second symbol of innoruuk, for DE clerics, Instead of going thru a game of back and forth between nek woods, neriak, WC, neriak, Just place the spy halfling at the end of the quest, dropping the symbol.

More suggestions, things ive seen on various EQEmu servers, Is there should be a few select zones, that the second you enter them, You automatically become PvP. The arena becomes the most frequently used for this, But It would be very nice to see a zone such as PoWar also be given this tag.(rallos zek being god of war and all :)
It might also be intresting to tinker with the idea of making all city zones, PvP zones. Very in depth role playing aspects would come of this. PvP has its place, But it isnt at the zone line of a dungeon, waiting for weakened evac'ing groups to get slaughtered. Most people, are full mana, HP when they enter a city, So there would be less people crying foul, cause they wernt ready for combat. Sneaky lil rouges could pickpocket careless tourists, while there shopping the various wares of local town merchants.

But the more content created for this server, means the better the server will be . NE way , just food for thought i guess:)

[felgrep]

on my box here.

Dual 1GHZ p3 :twisted:
1Gb Ram
Static DSL

I just need to get a new case for it, I'm having heat issues right now in it's rackmount case.

[monkboy]

Sure, I'm up for it if needed.. I can host a few zones

AMD 1200 Mhz
762 Mb RAM
T-10 Mbs LAN connected straight to the backbone (about 700-750 kB/sec)

[MrSerious]

Looks like there may be a use for my dinosaur LOL

Don't know how much good for zone server running but I'd gladly set up my Dual PII 400 1gig ram mounted in a walker for it.


--------------------
I say, "Deliver me from Swedish Furniture"

[Slayer02]

I have a 1.1 GHz 256 mb Ram with 20 gig hard drive which could run maybe the world or 1 or 2 zones, since 99.9% of the time it will be idle. I am getting a new laptop though that I may host from on occasion, 1024 MB Corsair ram, 3.06 GHZ with Hyper Threading, 120 Gig 5400 RPM hard drive with 2mb cache, 128 mb ATI Radeon 9800 Pro video card. So fourth.

[Ultra]

Lets stop talking about it and do it... I'm a man of action... :twisted:

Send me a mail, ultra@imook.net or meet me on the EQEMu chatserver, and we'll start talk'n about how we can do this.

-Ultra
http://www.imook.net/

[UrineTrouble]

Running a p3 500 with 256 megs of ram.... Pretty soon, this is gonna be a full time server, so i'll happily pitch in.

Also, as long as im at school, i'll have a 100 megabit connection, I think that should be ok. During the summer though, It's gonna only be on DSL =(

Let's get this thing started already... lol (And to those of you who *don't* want this to be a legit server, go play something like Forever Hacking (No offense, personally, i think that once in a while, FH makes for a great time). But truthfully, it's absolutely NO fun when Everyone on the server is level 65, and weilding all the uber armor/gear that can be summoned... It's just not fun.... There's no challenge... No Skill.) =P

Just my 2cp on that btw.

[DeletedUser]

What the hell is a t-10?

[monkboy]

A T10? A 10 mbs ethernet connection. I'm on a LAN at home with my ISP and Internet backbone.

[DeletedUser]

Theres no such thing as a T-10, its a T1 and a T3, then oc3 oc12 etc.

[a_Guest03]

You're thinking 10baseT, buddy.

T1, T3, OC are different.

[monkboy]

oops, yes, I'm thinking Tbase10, yeah. Sorry =)

[Ultra]

Hey, we're moving off topic! :-\ Lets make a damn megaserver, and stop talking about it... And just -do- it...

I'm ready and willing to dedicate my time to this project... So anyone actualy wanting to get this thing off the ground, for the love of god, just email me...


-Ultra

[Elanvor]

Is it going to be like EQlive? where we can have huge raids?

[Ultra]

It isn't going to be like anything, if no one wants to help, Or stop being lazy and do something to get this done...

[Bardboy]

I have a computer that I can dedicate to the cause.

I'm going to do some reading on the subject and see if I can get a database shared between a couple of my computers. If anyone is taking names for this project, you can add me to the list. You can reach me at my email address or through AIM.

[DannMann99]

not to shoot you down, but you have to deal with the databases in a strange manner whilst connecting the "mega" server. My ideas for it would be to have one computer host the db, have the others connect to that computer to send the data back and forth, and there will be data... believe me...
From there... i honestly wouldnt connect many many computers together, i would find maybe four people with great connections, and have have one host velius, kunark, faydwer, and antonica. Antonica and kunark will obviously need the higher powered servers. I would kind of pull off a guildwar theme as well, to try to isolate the people to a shorter area, this way there is actually some interaction between PC's... (player characters). I honestly would host a special server, that wasnt like normal eq. Pull off something to change around zone points, but make it so you have to type in... /zone to actually zone (something the WintersRoar server made effective) This way you have more freedom to do what you wish with the server. You could host just antonica, yet set up the zone lines to have all of the PoP connected up so you can zone in.
Also keep in mind that the three top servers have pretty dedicated people. Guildwars, Krushers, and Forever Hacking. I only manage to check this thing once every few months to see how things are going with some old buddies. And i turn it on to see that GuildWars has hit 100 people on the server, unless you plan to be able to that, or come up with a better storyline... im just not sure as to how many dedicated players you will have.

./sigh...

Why did i quit everquest?......... because i wanted my life back..... and i tell you all, life is very good indeed. You would be suprised how many more friends you get... when you dont spend all of your time talking with the only 4 people you know who play eq... and when you are doing things.. thinking about eq...
I beat eq... i gave up my crack addiction, and now i laugh about it when i go into eb and talk to the workers... its a good laugh... i beat their 13$ a month system.... those bastids...

Daniel D~
DannMann99@aol.com
DannMann05 @ AIM
Vash-The-Nuku-Nuku @ IRC

[Toofles]

Pull off something to change around zone points, but make it so you have to type in... /zone to actually zone (something the WintersRoar server made effective)

Winter's Roar doesn't use this system anymore as Wiz has made true zonepoints work like he wants to.

[IMercenary]

I'm running a 2.53 ghz with 512mb ram and a cable connection :wink: . I could host most of the time, although sometimes, my part would probably have to come down. Also, would all the mobs and NPC's be exactly the same? I could help populate the world as well if I end up unable to be part of the ' Megaserver. ' :D

[IApatrickmay]

I wouldn't mind helping out with this idea either - would make a great server where GMs can run free and skip through the daisy's....ermmm.....wrong drean :) but i think it would be great for me to help - i have a 62 rogue atm and been to almost all the zones a 62 can get access to and have dragged corpses in all of the zones i have been in - so i think i know my way around. i also been to cshome in eqemu and such.