Classic or era-based server content

[fzzzty]

I made a server something like five years ago to see "how MMOs work" (not that EQemu is representative of MMO architecture these days). It was fun, frustrating without the guides that are around today. I've been thinking about trying again. Similar to P99, which I enjoy, but with some custom mechanics that will never exist on there. I'm sure I can get the server up and running, my question is about the content...

I found ProjectEQ, which seems great, but I would bet that P99 has diverged or done their own modifications and I'm guessing they haven't ported their findings back to ProjectEQ (I don't think ProjectEQ really has a way for them to do that from what I can tell). Does anyone know if this is correct?

Also, ProjectEQ seems to be progression based, meaning their previous era versions are not maintained, so e.g. their Velious-era database would have "fixes" in the Luclin version. If I wanted to create a Velious-era server, and used the latest version on ProjectEQ while disabling newer zones, I'm guessing that would include changes to the Velious-era content (e.g. nerfs) that were made post-Velious. Is that correct?

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to compete with P99 (or anyone else), I don't want that headache. The headache I want is to just make something different and/or see if my ideas are fun or (most likely) horrible, but within the era I enjoyed the most.

From reading patches, posts, etc. from P99 it seems like they "enable eras", which sounds interesting, as if there is a timeline of eras rolled up with patches that they move through...not just making things act as they were in an era, but working through the steps in time. That's pretty cool if that's how they work (meaning P99), but I digress.

[provocating]

Nilbog and Rogean do not share many, if any changes back to PEQ that I know. Yes, both parties could work together but that is not how it is currently working out. As far as using the standard default PEQ database, there will be months or even years of changes you will have to make if you want a truly Velious era database. I have been doing it for around 4 months now and still have a long way to go. Your items, start locations, spawns, spells, trivials on tradeskills, skill caps, zone lines will all have to be adjusted. That is not even touching quest changes like money and xp given.

[image]

It is a huge undertaking, devnoob and I personally have been reverting from a PEQ database because our original database was so old back from the early GuildWars days. We do this during/inbetween the servers we host (when people play on it) and this new rendition has been going on since about 2011. I am still fixing things to this day and some things can't be fixed sometimes without modifying the client.

A good example of 'client side' issues is the 'brown skeleton' model from classic -- you won't be able to get it working unless you do some impressive texture/model changes (or modify the client). Eg. http://i54.tinypic.com/k21ogk.jpg. Some things really come down to nitpicking of how classic it needs to be.

How much work do you want to put into it and how much time you want to learn how to do new things because if you take on a responsibility of the eqemu server by yourself you inherit the responsibilities of the code base, database and the client.

[AdrianD]

Long read...

I agree with image and provocating. It is a huge undertaking. I'm just one guy with limited knowledge and there is enough within the database to consume unknown hours/days/weeks to alter to a previous time.

There is a certain segment of folks here who wish to have classic/progression content and I believe this segment is large enough to warrant a bit of organization.

I recently had a conversation with someone about this. Below are the edited parts which may have relevance to this topic. Maybe something here will entice others in some way:
I have other zones I intend to revamp with the same process. Coming up with the process took the most amount of time. It was a first for using queries in certain ways. The next revamp will take a fraction of the time, especially with good data.

I kick myself and SMH when I see myself and others working individually on our own projects. I understand the pride involved with working our asses off on these projects for whatever the reason.

I haven't reached out much until recently for something like sharing the workload. I haven't been confident enough in my abilities to pull my weight, until recently.

I don't know if I can offer anybody anything but, I am sick and tired of seeing other people do the same exact thing I am doing. It's totally pointless for me, or anyone else, to spend hours/days/weeks on stuff that has been done more than once when this is supposed to be a community.

Not trying to rant and I know my point may not be totally clear. As this pertains to you: I am trying to find the most accurate data from the classic era. I have an old axclassic database from I-don't-know-when. The DB is unfinished but it has enough good data to get started on several zones. We may have used the same DB.

I'm definitely not a "developer" in the professional sense. I went from basically zero knowledge to the little I have now. I don't know C++ yet, I couldn't create a quest (lua) script without looking at a similar script but, I can work with the database. I'm not a pro at it although I can actually do things that I had to put on the backburner in the past because I didn't know how to do them.

Now that I can do some of these things, I question whether or not I should do them. It's rewarding to know I can get this stuff done but...

I have an AXClassic DB from 4/7/14. I am unsure if that was the last update. I have cavedude's last peq dump (last February?) which is very close to what I have from about six months prior. I've updated the source and DB tables (~7/30/15) to accomodate the source and I am not looking to stray from that due to my limitations.

I enjoy taking data and putting it to use. Solving the problem to put it to use. It was gratifying to take the CT data from axclassic, for instance, and plug it in to the peq schema. It took quite a bit of data vetting, as I call it. But, after this I realized there is still a fair amount of work to fine tune the zone, not to mention what I will do with Feerrott. (I have ideas of what I could do to balance it to the revamped CT without a ton of work but, I appreciate continuity more than an easy fix)

Axclassic DB has, what appears to be, good data on droga/nurga. I will likely do the same with them.

A major concern is balancing the classic planes. I was not playing EQ more regularly until around luclin/PoP and I didn't raid. Data from peq seems good but, I don't have a frame of reference. I use P99 wiki as a source and whatever else I can find. The P99 wiki, in many places, is a copy/paste of data from peq so I question it's authenticity.

I'm not as concerned about post-classic data as much because there is more information out there about it. The EQLive devs in later expansions seemed to do more global changes to things which are much easier to identify.

I agree and getting it perfect does not consume me. I personally feel getting the classic data as accurate as possible is more important than anything else, as far as content/data goes.

I make what I call "expansion queries" which take data from the main DB (peq) to create specific "expansions". Currently, they do a pretty good job of separating the expansion and era-specific data. I added a few simple columns in the main DB which identify the expansion and in the "expansion settings" stage of these queries, use this setting to create what I call the "usable database" based on the criteria I put in the settings. I don't need to get the timeline 100% correct. For example, paineel came out around SolRo temple, I did not include paineel in my "planes" expansion. Epic 1.0 are with the "Hole" expansion, and so on.

I could explain the process more, because you probably know, it's not as simple as joining a few tables and setting conditions. At this point, the process is highly accurate. The process and the accuracy of the content depend completely on the few columns I added to a few tables.

It's not without flaws. I have found some and fixing a few of them while keeping continuity of content takes some thought and a fair amount of time.

I'm currently up to "luclin" (for a total of 7 different "usable" DB builds) and changing the queries for later expansions is usually a pretty simple endeavor. These builds are a one-click process from a current usable or live DB. I have original DB live and could make it luclin in five minutes and login and see the pretty new player models with my old SSoY X 2. =)

I'm not saying what I have set up is different or special, that's silly. I'm a rookie.

My interest in this ebbs and flows as I am sure it does with others. I don't have any expectations although I am impatient. I work on stuff I know I can do and try to learn in between.

There is kindof a web, a simple web (if that makes sense), of connections in my current DB linked through the queries. I haven't flushed out all the inconsistencies but it's still pretty good. The beautiful thing about it is, it's simple at it's core.


I am willing to share everything I have done. The original DB, the source and everything else has been shared with me. I won't claim what I have done is original, hasn't been done before or special in any way. I have spent a great deal of time on my project.

[provocating]

It is a huge undertaking, devnoob and I personally have been reverting from a PEQ database because our original database was so old back from the early GuildWars days. We do this during/inbetween the servers we host (when people play on it) and this new rendition has been going on since about 2011. I am still fixing things to this day and some things can't be fixed sometimes without modifying the client.

A good example of 'client side' issues is the 'brown skeleton' model from classic -- you won't be able to get it working unless you do some impressive texture/model changes (or modify the client). Eg. http://i54.tinypic.com/k21ogk.jpg. Some things really come down to nitpicking of how classic it needs to be.

How much work do you want to put into it and how much time you want to learn how to do new things because if you take on a responsibility of the eqemu server by yourself you inherit the responsibilities of the code base, database and the client.

I can tell you now, with no doubt I have spent anywhere from 4~8 hours a day on just bug fixes, pathing issues, managing my server. With Legacy of FrostStone this has been the norm for the last 4 months. Sign up on my Mantis site and just looking at how many tickets I get a week, those are just the ones that people report, many issues are discussed in /ooc and I just remember it needs to be done.

I think I have been running servers for around 4 years now, it takes a lot of commitment and I think most have no idea what they are getting into. Sure you can ignore bug request from your players, but it is like the broken window philosophy.

So I am just agreeing with Image here, it is how much you want to put into it.

[AdrianD]

From a personal standpoint:

I'm not interested in running a public server. I know enough from being around here a while to understand it would take more than just me.

I'm focused on learning about all the processes involved. I believe I could contribute to a team in some way. Making a day-in, day-out commitment to one for an undefined period of time is something I cannot do. I would rather spend the time learning new things than doing the same thing over and over.

EDIT: To clarify, a team running a server and a commitment resembling a job

This does not mean I would not contribute to a goal which some could benefit from which includes doing the same thing over and over. There is a distinction.

[mgellan]

I've also spent a lot of time modifying PEQ to be more classic (in my case aiming for being completely true to the last day of Velious) but I wonder the same thing - would people contribute to a project (call it OpenClassic) where everyone works together to create an accurate Classic server, with proper source code control so the project can roll out an accurate Classic Era server version and maintain that then a Kunark version, etc. so if someone wants to create a progression server they can simply download the code and data for that version, then increment through the patches on the correct timeline etc.

Nilbog and crew have done an awesome job but it would be really nice if the code/data was open source so we didn't have a ton of people reinventing the wheel...

Regards,
Mg

[image]

I post my collection of path files on www.eqpvp.com/paths -- probably be updating it again soon once I do some run testing around the new path files I have been working on this month.

My database/code is so off base from main eqemu. Highly modified since 2011 since I run custom servers (but on the classic setting). Just coming to mind I don't even have LUA scripting in there I am still using perl, plus the loot table design was rewritten recently. I can't suggest it as a base unfortunately because its been modified for my custom server (such as a Diablo item system that lets me create items on the fly during gameplay). Just a lot of things I don't think would fall in line with classic or would want to be part of that source.

[provocating]

They will never open source p1999, can you imagine 10 of those servers? It would kill their population.

[mgellan]

They will never open source p1999, can you imagine 10 of those servers? It would kill their population.

Indeed, hence the need to crowdsource something thats implicitly open source from the outset -- Mg

[AdrianD]

I'm with ya.

I can't code yet but, as mentioned, I can work a database. I am not afraid of mapping data if it's considered largely accurate. Not saying I could map it all in all circumstances or that I am some master at it, silly...

The database is a huge undertaking IF it needs to be changed from scratch (peq). But, for many of us, it's not from scratch. We've all worked on it in one form or another.

I think the biggest hurdle is getting people to loosen their iron grip on their own data. The next hurdle would be agreeing on content. The real classic pros can do this for classic. Any who have played the game can contribute here with all expansions, beautiful! It's not as hard as it seems.

The current code has quite a bit of flexibility through the `rule_values` table. (thank you to all that put their hard work on it and foresight) <--- I cannot stress this one enough

There are a lot of things that could be considered "easy" as far as coding goes. I won't be the judge of that although I know it to be true.

A few things, at least from the get go, would probably need to be accepted by a person like myself with no coding background. Some things are done as good as they can be done for an emu. Unless I bump my head and miraculously become a prodigy coder, I will (have to) accept this. I'm talking about the mechanics, of course.

Everything is there. All the long hard years of DB building and coding is in place. It is this simple; naysayers... I don't have kind words for naysayers. This goes for devil's advocates although, there is sometimes merit in what they state. I'm a devil's advocate.

[AdrianD]

Last little rah rah thing I'll say on this.

If each of us spent a teeny, tiny fraction of the time on organizing this that we did on altering our own content, do you think it would happen?

[provocating]

I would contribute if anything became of it.

[AdrianD]

Awesome, those that have more experience than me (many/most/all?) can recommend the best route to organizing (git?) and I will do my best to set it up.

If I do this, my first commit will be everything I have. (I know, it must be a lot, you're thinking) All my data, which will surprise some of you. All my sql scripts concerning building expansions <this will surprise you as well ;)> and if more beginners need some query help, I can add some more basic searching scripts along with explanations.

Personally, I would love some critque on my scripts.

Only reason I say it may surprise you is because I'm the FNG asking all the questions.

EDIT: I didn't clarify - if those with more experience than me could suggest a good way to organize this, please, I would be grateful =)
I don't like guessing

[jpyou127]

I think this is a great idea! Accurate content that all could then build off of even if it's a custom server. That was originally the whole idea behind the emu in the beginning?

[chrsschb]

We could all just wait for EQClassic to finally release.

https://i.imgflip.com/rfi3h.jpg





(not srs, it'll never release)

[AdrianD]

That was good chrsschb, lol.

I'll just start something. If it needs to be changed, it can be changed.

[AdrianD]

I put some of my stuff here:

https://github.com/aduchaine/EQEmuClassicProgression/tree/AdrianD

There is likely a better place to put large tables and large amounts of data and I am open to advice.

I am new at the git stuff so please, suggest better methods.

Thanks

EDIT: I also don't care to have "ownership" of this stuff, and don't want it. If it can be set differently, please let me know.

[mgellan]

I suspect we need to coordinate an approach - my thoughts are:

1. Start with the current rev of eqemu and keep any changes required to "classic-ify" the code parameter driven and checked into the main code base so we're not creating a fork that will never get merged back into the main project.

2. Start with a current rev of PEQ and just create SQL patches to apply that if run sequentially will result in a "classic-ify'd' database. So for example the first giant SQL file for my database removes NPCs, doors, objects, items, etc. that are not Trilogy. This means that each revision of PEQ the project needs to ensure that the changes are applied but reviewed in case the change breaks something in the classic database. Publish the sql along with the eqemu code so if someone wants to 'classic'ify' their server they just apply that SQL in sequence to the current PEQ file.

3. Quests - open question, probably need to fork these entirely since I doubt any fixes made to quests are intended to revert them to classic.

So what I see happening is a project to create a release of the server as of March 16 1999. Next, a release as of the first significant patch (1999-09-21?) and so on. Each release would be a snapshot in time of the server, allowing server operators to follow actual timelines for releases of functions etc. to create a truly classic experience.

Regards,
Mg

[provocating]

1. Start with the current rev of eqemu and keep any changes required to "classic-ify" the code parameter driven and checked into the main code base so we're not creating a fork that will never get merged back into the main project.

I am not source control expert but I do not think this is viable. My source has gotten further and further custom. You have to think the current EqEmu source has code for instancing, AA's (cannot completely remove), bots, mercs, etc. Do you really want to keep all of that in there if it is not needed? I started stripping all of that out my first month with Legacy of FrostStone. I would want more streamlined code. When you are debugging there are a hell of a lot less lines of code when you take out routines that are not needed. If something cool comes to EqEmu source and I think it is needed I have added it to mine.

That being said I do not think you can merge back in if the changes are that drastic, sounds like a nightmare.

[mgellan]

I am not source control expert but I do not think this is viable. My source has gotten further and further custom. You have to think the current EqEmu source has code for instancing, AA's (cannot completely remove), bots, mercs, etc. Do you really want to keep all of that in there if it is not needed?

Stripping code out by actually physically removing it is silly - better to have a compiler directive to just not compile that code in versus removing it. P99 have removed AA code - how can they do AAs now without laboriously reinserting the code? That being said I expect that the coders who are trying to get as close to Live as possible would be saying "No fucking way, keep that classic shit out of the code, it's complicated enough"

At the same time, if necessary I'd fork the code, keep applying updates and not change much so the code doesn't become so totally different than the main code base so as to preclude applying reasonable updates that would be useful in possible future expansions...

Regards,
Mg

[provocating]

Well we have two different directives. My code will never go past Velious.

[AdrianD]

I suspect we need to coordinate an approach

Yes, yes.

1. Start with the current rev of eqemu and keep any changes required to "classic-ify" the code parameter driven and checked into the main code base so we're not creating a fork that will never get merged back into the main project.

I agree. What we do to customize our servers is our prerogative. My thought on this is to have a base for those interested in classic/progression.

[AdrianD]

2. Start with a current rev of PEQ and just create SQL patches to apply that if run sequentially will result in a "classic-ify'd' database.

I have done some of this as good as I can. I haven't gone as far as getting things proper on a patch to patch timeline.

3. Quests - open question, probably need to fork these entirely since I doubt any fixes made to quests are intended to revert them to classic.


Currently, with the sqls I have created, any quest npcs which are not part of a certain expansion will not be present in the table `npc_types`. Items which are not part of a certain expansion will not be present in the table `items`. This will effectively disable the quest in many circumstances.

Of course, there are npcs and items which are a part of the expansion and they are not accurate. Many other quests, when enabled, may not be accurate to the era. I have only edited a very small portion of quests to reflect the era they were introduced.

......................

I've devised a simple "nomenclature" in the expansion columns I've added to a few tables. Without a full explanation, I've given 50k+ npcs a non-default value and 60k+ items a non-default value. Lot's of work remains, though.

How classic or progression someone wants their server is again, their prerogative. I want to make it so the transition from what is now to something closer to an earlier era is simple. I've done this.

I always wanted to make it so this could be used for new community members. Therefore, I don't make many changes to the actual data. My peq DB is not very different from the guy who started up today.

Many first timers are not capable of making drastic code changes. This includes me. I'm not ready to go down a path where support will be hard to find by branching off from the main community. This is not a goal of mine.

I think it's great to discuss and even plan for the full-range of possibilities. This is why I asked the question.

I do not want to overcomplicate things and drive away support and assistance.

Thanks

[AdrianD]

This is getting bumped.

This deserves more attention.

Out of the woodwork!

Loosen the grip!

Lets get something done.

[jpyou127]

I agree whOle heartily!

[provocating]

If you are doing this by an Era by Era basis, like full progression then you are going to have to have a different quest pack for each era. After months of just reverting to Velious on my server I can tell you many quest are just flat out missing. Most are inaccurate with experience, mostly the newbie quest. We are still weeding out NPC's that out of era.

Drops rates are being changed on mob by mob basis, almost daily. Since it is unknown what they actually are. PEQ uses Magelo for drop rates but from my experience they are not accurate, even for the current era.

[AdrianD]

I can tell you many quest are just flat out missing

Perfection is impossible.

PEQ uses Magelo for drop rates but from my experience they are not accurate, even for the current era.

It's easy to drop any magelo generated loottable/lootdrop. There are quite a few of the above table entries that go unused which could be matched up with a bit of work.

It's also easy to drop all items outside of an expansion if those items are labelled with an expansion - like I have done for 60k+ items - so some of the magelo gen data dropping isn't necessary.

This is what I'm basically talking about. Getting the data proper in the database is huge as everyone has said. I've made some of it so simple a caveman can help!

[provocating]

I am pretty sure the Magelo issue has to lie with multiple items dropping off of creatures. Magelo drop rates do not show quantities so if a Crag Spider drops 8 silks, that would be a 800% drop rate on that one drop. I do not think Magelo's website ever shows above 100%

[AdrianD]

This is what I'm basically talking about. Getting the data proper in the database is huge as everyone has said. I've made some of it so simple a caveman can help!

To add:

I don't feel like carrying on and on about what I have done because I'm not an self-centered egomaniac like some. But, I also feel that I am doing a disservice to the segment of the community that wants classic/progression by not harping about what I have done (started).

It's very important to get these things (lootdrops, items, npcs, other database stuff) correct. I've spent about as much time developing my system as I have changing data (maybe not, but I said this for effect).

P99 has done it with whoever they have.

I see no fucking reason a much larger community can't!

Get with it...

[AdrianD]

I am pretty sure the Magelo issue has to lie with multiple items dropping off of creatures. Magelo drop rates do not show quantities so if a Crag Spider drops 8 silks, that would be a 800% drop rate on that one drop. I do not think Magelo's website ever shows above 100%

It seems that lootdrop.ids were added along with existing one when this was done. There are several columns in `loottable_entries` and `lootdrop_entries` which control this. <chance, multiplier, mindrop, probability> all of these combined create an environment that when you kill `a_large_rat` you get twelve items.

[provocating]

I do not think you understood what I was saying. Look at...

http://eq.magelo.com/npc/7155

See the spider shows it drops silk 85% of the time? What the emulator would translate that to is dropping 1 silk 85% of the time. I am not sure how the Magelo import routine works but I would think it could possibly get the percentages right on multiples. A Crag spider can possibly drop up to 8 silks. It may be 15% with an 8x multiplier, but it is possible.

[AdrianD]

I've never looked at magelo grabs so perhaps I misunderstood you.

I know what I see in the DB though. A multiplier value was assigned somehow.

As far as crag spiders specifically: they have dropped large numbers of silks since back in PoP days if not earlier, I'm unsure exactly how far back

[AdrianD]

If you have virgin ears, click out of this thread...

...................

A snippet from a convo I had recently regarding this general issue:

I seem to be met on many sides by people unwilling.

...................

On database work, it would probably be good to just use a central database with the PeqEditor and give everyone access to make changes. Maybe some type of log sheet for people to sign with a small description on the changes they made that day.

Sounds good. Although, I like the structure of git with a master and branches. For example: Adrian has table x1,y1,z1 in his branch, <soandso> has x2,y2,z2 and these can be combined or chosen separately as a more complete data set to Master xm,ym,zm.

If you want something enough and are passionate about it you can also get it done on your own.

Agreed

I have had mainly negative comments about my servers since I started. You have to push past all of the negative comments and just run with it.

Those people should go away. Fucked up to say that to someone in your "community." I've seen some of the comments made in your direction. Fucked up people.

You cannot develop a server in a vacuum, also you do not need to rely on other developers to get your job done.

Agreed

My comments: I can't say this enough... Why on earth would someone want to do this more than once?! It's tedious, boring - I'd rather pull my fingernails out than know you are editing the same exact DB entry with virtually the same new data. It's fucking stupid man!

I am not going to spend 5 years of my free time to repeat what someone else has done but is too stubborn or stingy to share, when what they have was shared with them. It contradicts everything about why this EMU started.

I hear you on all that other stuff but this is the bottom line for me. <above :)>

Egos abound!

[image]

Most people who are already here likely have time invested in their existing projects and will continue to work those. No one is going to drop what they are doing just to start a new project unless they are truly motivated. These tasks are pretty thankless (building databases/handing them out publicly). Plus doing classic everyone wants it done 'RIGHT', what is 'right' you may ask? Hell if I know, but everyone seems to have their own interpretation of each mob, quest, etc and the slightest cosmetic can turn a player off to the server.

As provocating touched on part of the community will scorn you for the work, lack of perfection in every avenue, so unless you have everything done and sparkly for them its a spit in the face. Another group of individuals might just take what you did and start their own server with no credit and put you in the dust (Which I guess is the fear for some servers?).

Even P99 is a 'vague classic equivalent' and probably will be the only 'classical' server with the full extent of changes made. EQClassic went the route for trilogy, then yeahlight dropped the ball and its back to titanium client and they are pretty much reinventing the wheel again. With the Titanium classic it is impossible to have full on classic, features have been ripped out of the client (I miss those message boards) and boats are worked around using the 'beta' boat etc. Any true hope of a trilogy or older client is highly diminished especially with the compatibility issues of operating system/hardware. Simply put in lots of minds 'its more trouble than its worth'.

TLDR: If you want it, you have to do it yourself. Time is invested elsewhere, to pick this up and 'do it right' would take years, P99 isn't going to help you, don't count on anyone helping. What work you get done will be critiqued heavily and social aspect of the community can sometimes be detrimental in the classic area. At this point 'doing it right' is the only way it will probably get recognized and everyone has their own pipe dream of what that 'right' is.

[provocating]

I am "egobound" ? Not hardly.

You wanted to start this project, you started the thread, not me.

That entire PM, was sent you you in confidence. There again I do not send anything in a PM that I would be ashamed of. You are definitely not going about this endeavor of yours in a fashion that would encourage people to help you.

Several PM's you sent me were pretty narcissistic but I will not post these here in a public forum. Good luck on your project, I definitely will not be contributing to it. You are showing your true colors.

And yes you have to do it yourself. As I said before I have been faced with much negativity on my project but I stick to my guns on what I want. I put in countless hours of GM'ing, server maintenance, bug reports. I am not going to stop what I am doing to help you. No one stopped what they were doing to help me. As I said my server comes first above everything else except my day job.

[AdrianD]

Image: I read it.

I'm not concerned about credit. I'm not concerned about having a live server. Having players to play with on a somewhat regular basis would be nice.

I'm not talking about a commitment that isn't already being done or has been done. Backtrack, the only commitment I am talking about is to continue towards the overall goal which seems to be a similar thread.

For example: Participants put the data somewhere. People take and use the data, maybe refine it. Much like how this project works. It's really not complicated or a large commitment beyond what people are doing already.

It's sharing and improving, simple.

Provocating: I was not talking about you and I was not thinking of any single person, specifically. Until you said something, the average onlooker wouldn't know the difference. And what's the big deal on that? I don't give a shit what is posted here if I said it. I've been a silly happy camper here and you know what, I don't talk or act this way. I'm trying to be nice/disarming so the general public will be more willing to help. SMH

[provocating]

Well I am out of this conversation. These topics seem to heat up and I am not interested in drama.

[AdrianD]

I would rather have had you called me an a-hole in private. It would have made a public explanation unnecessary. You're ok in my book. :) Ahhh, internet communication...

[mgellan]

To me the Mandate of this Project (Lets call it OpenEQ for giggles) is as follows:

"Develop and release EQEMU code, data, and quests that model the Live releases of EQ as accurately as is possible, make those releases freely available, and ensure the Community can implement working servers as easily as possible."

So here's my proposal:

- Create an OpenEQ project on GIT and fork the current EQEMU code, database, and quests into it. Or, implement someone else's code and data thats closer to Milestone 1.
- Create and host development forums and an "OpenClassic" EQEMU server
- Create a Roadmap that will track every major release of EQ starting with March 1999. Each milestone will be a release of the code, and each release will consist of code, database, and quests. So if you want to step through a complete progression, check out each milestone release, compile, load the database and install the quests. Or, hell, with a Linux server we can publish VirtualBox VMs of the complete package and serverops can just load player tables.
- All code changes need to be committed to the repository, and each milestone has a database load associated with it

Since everything is hosted on GIT, and will be freely available, no one person has control since any issues people could just start their own development fork.

So, Milestone 1 would be to build an accurate release of EQ as of March 1999.

FWIW I'm an professional server operations guy (Director level) with a development background, although my C++ is pretty rusty (15 years rusty!) - part of my reason for looking for a project is to re-engage those skills. I'm a pretty good PHP programmer tho. Most of my professional life is project management so I can add that dimension. My own server is currently aimed at modelling Velious but this to me is a more righteous project so I'd be happy to offer up my pretty recent code and database as a starting point and start moving it to Classic.

I offer up the following:

- A hosted instance of EQEMU and database to use as a main test server
- A phpBB based forum where we can interact and work out issues, post bug reports etc.
- My services to do builds of the server and deal with operational issues
- My services as Project Manager
- My services as a developer, content editor, tester

I can have the server available within a day or so. If you want to participate, great, love to have some input. If not, do your own thing. If no one jumps in, then obviously it's not a viable project. However if you jump in you commit to everything being open sourced and freely available.

Happy to adjust the above to meet the needs of the community but to me this is how to proceed. Thanks!

Regards,
Mg

PS Be quick to neither give nor take offense. Seems like we're all interested in the same goals, I'm sure we can be civil.

[Furniture]

Just use the takproject code if you want a classic server. No need to reinvent the wheel. If the server is just for personal use then it is perfect. A non p99 classic server with eqemulator will undoubtedly be vastly inferior to both takproject and p99.

[mgellan]

To me the Mac client is a dealbreaker, and the stated goals of the project are to emulator the Al'Kabor server not provide a progression timeline...

Regards,
Mg

[provocating]

Just use the takproject code if you want a classic server. No need to reinvent the wheel. If the server is just for personal use then it is perfect. A non p99 classic server with eqemulator will undoubtedly be vastly inferior to both takproject and p99.

I would rather be shot in the foot having to use the Trilogy client, or even Titanium for that matter.

[image]

Lol for the hate for older clients, the trilogy client is not compatible with the new netcode anyway, any sort of support for trilogy would require a lot of modification.

Sounds like there are a lot of conflicting interests in this post anyhow I don't see much agreement.

[AdrianD]

I would be considered disingenuous to not show any interest.

Part of being disingenuous would be an unwillingness to compromise, which I am not.

Most here have more experience than I in many things related to this including how to proceed so, I submit to the above proposal.

Please let me know what I can do.

Thanks,

Adrian

[provocating]

Lol for the hate for older clients, the trilogy client is not compatible with the new netcode anyway, any sort of support for trilogy would require a lot of modification.

Sounds like there are a lot of conflicting interests in this post anyhow I don't see much agreement.

Someone said to use the TakProject net code. I thought they used the Trilogy client, it may have been EqClassic that was using it.

[mgellan]

Lol for the hate for older clients, the trilogy client is not compatible with the new netcode anyway, any sort of support for trilogy would require a lot of modification.

Sounds like there are a lot of conflicting interests in this post anyhow I don't see much agreement.

Since Milestone 1 is Classic, no matter what you're using a newer client. I actually tried to get Classic working from my original CD and couldn't get it working in anything newer than Win98SE, and my attempts to set up a VM with 3D support under Win98SE failed, the oldest Windoze with the right drivers is XP which doesn't support the old DirectX. Although thinking about it it might work under WINE!

To me there's some solid justification in using Titanium, since it works in modern OSs, and will likely do so for some time. Also, as I understand it zones like Highpass are hard coded to be the revamped zones in newer clients so there's no way to get a classic HP unless you use an older client. Happy to be corrected on this!

Also with DBG recognizing/supporting P99, I feel a downloadable Titanium client seems the most likely scenario for getting a fully legal licensed version of EQ so the barrier to entry for EQEMU is substantially lowered.

Finally with Titanium, there's a lot less crap to disable!

Regards,
Mg

[mgellan]

Someone said to use the TakProject net code. I thought they used the Trilogy client, it may have been EqClassic that was using it.

Tak uses the Mac Al'Kabor client, which is POP era AFAIK. -- Mg

[provocating]

I hear a lot of complaints with desync's, people like not liking the lack of scrolling, etc. Just saying.

[Furniture]

The takp client is fine. I box regularly on my own server with it and never had a desynch. Literally the only annoyance is not being able to mouse wheel back to 3rd person from first person. Your options are to either spend hundreds of hours learning and working to make an eqemu server classic, or to just play on the high quality, very polished Takp source code and db and deal with the first person view.

I'm just suggesting this because ive been here before. I've spent countless hours making eqemu source and database classic before takproject came out and imo it's just not worth it. I'd really recommend giving it a try because it's exactly what your looking for.

[mgellan]

I hear a lot of complaints with desync's, people like not liking the lack of scrolling, etc. Just saying.

Well considering I've put thousands of hours on Titanium on P99, it seems fairly solid. Yeah there's desyncs when you get a stupid number of people all in one zone, not sure thats anything but one of those tradeoffs you have to live with. The HighPass issue to me is what makes it mandatory. Plus of course it's been demonstrated by P99 that you can get some decent results with the client.

No sure what lack of scrolling means, mouse scroll wheel works?

Regards,
Mg

[Furniture]

Desynching is a server issue btw, it doesn't have anything to do with how good a client is

[Furniture]

Well considering I've put thousands of hours on Titanium on P99, it seems fairly solid. Yeah there's desyncs when you get a stupid number of people all in one zone, not sure thats anything but one of those tradeoffs you have to live with. The HighPass issue to me is what makes it mandatory. Plus of course it's been demonstrated by P99 that you can get some decent results with the client.

No sure what lack of scrolling means, mouse scroll wheel works?

Regards,
Mg

Your confusing the p99 titanium client with the takp Pop client.

[mgellan]

Your confusing the p99 titanium client with the takp Pop client.

Ah ok. What annoyed me most was the Alt key would be sticky when I flipped between boxed clients, so I'd have to hit it once each time I switched. Pretty annoying.

Regards,
Mg

[image]

Since Milestone 1 is Classic, no matter what you're using a newer client. I actually tried to get Classic working from my original CD and couldn't get it working in anything newer than Win98SE, and my attempts to set up a VM with 3D support under Win98SE failed, the oldest Windoze with the right drivers is XP which doesn't support the old DirectX. Although thinking about it it might work under WINE!

To me there's some solid justification in using Titanium, since it works in modern OSs, and will likely do so for some time. Also, as I understand it zones like Highpass are hard coded to be the revamped zones in newer clients so there's no way to get a classic HP unless you use an older client. Happy to be corrected on this!

Also with DBG recognizing/supporting P99, I feel a downloadable Titanium client seems the most likely scenario for getting a fully legal licensed version of EQ so the barrier to entry for EQEMU is substantially lowered.

Finally with Titanium, there's a lot less crap to disable!

Regards,
Mg

The original disc client won't work but trilogy does. Titanium still requires modification to revert some model changes made over the years.

trilogy

http://www.eqpvp.com/images/whatsnew/charsloaded.png

versus titanium

http://www.eqpvp.com/images/whatsnew/titanium.png

Taken on windows 7 by the way.

[mgellan]

The original disc client won't work but trilogy does. Titanium still requires modification to revert some model changes made over the years.

I haven't had a Trilogy set for years, but they're super cheap on eBay so I ordered one to play with, thanks! Even less crap to disable! -- Mg

[image]

I haven't had a Trilogy set for years, but they're super cheap on eBay so I ordered one to play with, thanks! -- Mg

Cool, unfortunately I don't think there are many public code bases you will find that support trilogy at the moment.

This first one is based on the trilogy client:
https://github.com/erfg12/EQTrilogy-Old

This is based on the mac client, but the netcode base is what you want, the opcodes and structures would have to be corrected, this requires a lot of programming knowledge
https://github.com/EQMacEmu/Server/

I am working off of my own code base which is a customized version of eqemu base back in 2k11. Still have a ways to go before Trilogy is working (zone server) on my server alongside other clients.

[tramtrist]

Nevermind we posted at the same time and you answered the question

[mgellan]

Thanks man appreciate the pointers :) -- Mg

[provocating]

Well considering I've put thousands of hours on Titanium on P99, it seems fairly solid. Yeah there's desyncs when you get a stupid number of people all in one zone, not sure thats anything but one of those tradeoffs you have to live with. The HighPass issue to me is what makes it mandatory. Plus of course it's been demonstrated by P99 that you can get some decent results with the client.

No sure what lack of scrolling means, mouse scroll wheel works?

Regards,
Mg

I never said there were desync's with Titanium. I said there are desyncs with TakProject and whatever client they use.

[mgellan]

Cool, unfortunately I don't think there are many public code bases you will find that support trilogy at the moment.

This first one is based on the trilogy client:
https://github.com/erfg12/EQTrilogy-Old

This is based on the mac client, but the netcode base is what you want, the opcodes and structures would have to be corrected, this requires a lot of programming knowledge
https://github.com/EQMacEmu/Server/

I am working off of my own code base which is a customized version of eqemu base back in 2k11. Still have a ways to go before Trilogy is working (zone server) on my server alongside other clients.

After some poking around I discovered that EQTrilogy-old was non-working but OpenEQC actually got some code working with the Trilogy client. See:

https://github.com/randy-girard/OpenEQC

I also found a Trilogy client so I'm messing around with it. Anyone know anything about OpenEQC?

Regards,
Mg

[image]

After some poking around I discovered that EQTrilogy-old was non-working but OpenEQC actually got some code working with the Trilogy client. See:

https://github.com/randy-girard/OpenEQC

I also found a Trilogy client so I'm messing around with it. Anyone know anything about OpenEQC?

Regards,
Mg

Not sure what you mean it is 'non-working'. Any person attempting to get Trilogy working is going to have to do some dev work, there isn't nearly as much work done to understand these older clients as say titanium. But this source does have the right netcode, opcodes and structures for the basics.

[MarcusD]

To me the Mandate of this Project (Lets call it OpenEQ for giggles) is as follows:

"Develop and release EQEMU code, data, and quests that model the Live releases of EQ as accurately as is possible, make those releases freely available, and ensure the Community can implement working servers as easily as possible."

So here's my proposal:

- Create an OpenEQ project on GIT and fork the current EQEMU code, database, and quests into it. Or, implement someone else's code and data thats closer to Milestone 1.
- Create and host development forums and an "OpenClassic" EQEMU server
- Create a Roadmap that will track every major release of EQ starting with March 1999. Each milestone will be a release of the code, and each release will consist of code, database, and quests. So if you want to step through a complete progression, check out each milestone release, compile, load the database and install the quests. Or, hell, with a Linux server we can publish VirtualBox VMs of the complete package and serverops can just load player tables.
- All code changes need to be committed to the repository, and each milestone has a database load associated with it

Since everything is hosted on GIT, and will be freely available, no one person has control since any issues people could just start their own development fork.

So, Milestone 1 would be to build an accurate release of EQ as of March 1999.

FWIW I'm an professional server operations guy (Director level) with a development background, although my C++ is pretty rusty (15 years rusty!) - part of my reason for looking for a project is to re-engage those skills. I'm a pretty good PHP programmer tho. Most of my professional life is project management so I can add that dimension. My own server is currently aimed at modelling Velious but this to me is a more righteous project so I'd be happy to offer up my pretty recent code and database as a starting point and start moving it to Classic.

I offer up the following:

- A hosted instance of EQEMU and database to use as a main test server
- A phpBB based forum where we can interact and work out issues, post bug reports etc.
- My services to do builds of the server and deal with operational issues
- My services as Project Manager
- My services as a developer, content editor, tester

I can have the server available within a day or so. If you want to participate, great, love to have some input. If not, do your own thing. If no one jumps in, then obviously it's not a viable project. However if you jump in you commit to everything being open sourced and freely available.

Happy to adjust the above to meet the needs of the community but to me this is how to proceed. Thanks!

Regards,
Mg

PS Be quick to neither give nor take offense. Seems like we're all interested in the same goals, I'm sure we can be civil.

I'm a total noob but I think your thought of approach is little cutthroat.

How about we all do whatever we want to do, then those of us that are working towards some sense of classic (any sense) can post all our stuff to some sort of centralized host and include a readme explaining what the goal of our project is and what we did and what our future directions are?

[MarcusD]

My goal (and it is a compromised goal)

1. is to get trilogy client and corresponding source code from openEQC working using some database (whatever works).

That is milestone 1 for me.

2. Modify the database to get it as classic as possible, and remove all quests for now. (I have no idea how to work on the database would love some links for direction)

And that's it. #2 would be ongoing.

Other thoughts?

[Secrets]

I never said there were desync's with Titanium. I said there are desyncs with TakProject and whatever client they use.

Rarely are there desyncs anymore on TAK. A lot of those issues have been resolved.
Regarding this:

- Create an OpenEQ project on GIT and fork the current EQEMU code, database, and quests into it. Or, implement someone else's code and data thats closer to Milestone 1.

It already exists, it's at https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/commits/master

You won't find anything closer to it beyond TAKProject which is also open source at https://github.com/EQMacEmu/Server

Some amount of programming effort needs to be put in by one person and not just a bunch of 'idea men' coming up with the best theoretical project. If you guys had researched why EQEmu is in the state that it is, you'd find out that it's 1) Open Source, 2) Not compatible with Trilogy due to the protocol and 3) Has a project named PEQTGC which provides an open source implementation of live.

There's a reason why P99 is closed source - it's because they are proud of their work and don't want to splinter the community that they have.

Same with EQClassic.

Instead of trying to think of the most horrible ways to 'take down the beast that is P99' - why not just create your own open source project and not care about what anyone else does, or contribute to this place which has an end goal of what you are proposing anyways.

Word of warning: You'll get people that take your code and use it if it's open source. This initially seems like what you'd want to do, as anyone can use your code and that fits your mantra. But everyone has an ulterior motive and no one is pure and you'll regret doing so.

Open source sometimes inspires a great collective of minds to come together.

But the other half of the time, it inspires a clusterfuck of jealousy and inspires idea men who ride on the coattails of greatness so they can put their experience on their job application at Starbucks.

Proceed with caution.

[provocating]

Rarely are there desyncs anymore on TAK. A lot of those issues have been resolved.


Well my apologies, but the last I heard there were.

[AdrianD]

2. Modify the database to get it as classic as possible, and remove all quests for now. (I have no idea how to work on the database would love some links for direction)

And that's it. #2 would be ongoing.

Other thoughts?

I have been working on the DB with the system I created. The system is simple and a good first step towards classic/progression content and it's EASY to customize and share progress.

I have no doubt others are doing their part with whatever system they have.

I'm glad you posted this, little by little we may actually get some shit done collectively.

Also, many will say they've made things custom and it isn't classic or blah, blah, blah. I can be the judge of what I want to use as with others.

The point is getting more accurate content not perfectly accurate content.

[provocating]

But the other half of the time, it inspires a clusterfuck of jealousy and inspires idea men who ride on the coattails of greatness so they can put their experience on their job application at Starbucks.

I have seen this, it is not pretty. I have also had people take my work and make a hideous monster of it.

[Secrets]

I have seen this, it is not pretty. I have also had people take my work and make a hideous monster of it.

This pretty much is relevant many years later:

http://wiki.eqemulator.org/p?So_You_Want_to_Manage_A_Server?

[AdrianD]

Yes Secrets, we are all human.

Taking the risk to make it open is an act in humility.

That other stuff about credit and jobs means nothing to me, personally.

People can typically see through that.

[Secrets]

Yes Secrets, we are all human.

Taking the risk to make it open is an act in humility.

That other stuff about credit and jobs means nothing to me, personally.

People can typically see through that.

It's a risk in humility but going through 'any lengths' to keep something open that someone requests remains closed from the beginning is not making something 'open source' - that's called stealing and is not part of the open source mantra.

EQEmulator is not a community where we leak the latest and greatest programmers in the communities' work. If you want that type of community, I recommend this website: www.ragezone.com

[AdrianD]

It's a risk in humility but going through 'any lengths' to keep something open that someone requests remains closed from the beginning is not making something 'open source' - that's called stealing and is not part of the open source mantra.

I agree.

EQEmulator is not a community where we leak the latest and greatest programmers in the communities' work. If you want that type of community, I recommend this website: www.ragezone.com

I don't know what that is.

..................

Correct me if I'm wrong.

You seem to be describing a club with the community inside the club.

Stealing is not the intention of `many`. If `many` had the ability/time to make contributions, they would. Sure, `many2` may have no interest in contributing, this is established.

Semantics aside, this seems to be more of an issue of general outlook on things.

Those that say "let's make this work" and those that are devil's advocates.

There is a place for each in the club/community.

[MarcusD]

The takp client is fine. I box regularly on my own server with it and never had a desynch. Literally the only annoyance is not being able to mouse wheel back to 3rd person from first person. Your options are to either spend hundreds of hours learning and working to make an eqemu server classic, or to just play on the high quality, very polished Takp source code and db and deal with the first person view.

I'm just suggesting this because ive been here before. I've spent countless hours making eqemu source and database classic before takproject came out and imo it's just not worth it. I'd really recommend giving it a try because it's exactly what your looking for.

Could you give a link to the takp client, source code, and database?

[provocating]

Everything you need to know is here.

http://www.takproject.net/forums/index.php

[AdrianD]

Thanks provocating.

[MarcusD]

Perfection is impossible.



It's easy to drop any magelo generated loottable/lootdrop. There are quite a few of the above table entries that go unused which could be matched up with a bit of work.

It's also easy to drop all items outside of an expansion if those items are labelled with an expansion - like I have done for 60k+ items - so some of the magelo gen data dropping isn't necessary.

This is what I'm basically talking about. Getting the data proper in the database is huge as everyone has said. I've made some of it so simple a caveman can help!

I have not yet graduated to caveman level but I will be helping at some point lol. I need to learn more about databases...learning how to use Heidisql would probably help ;).

[AdrianD]

Contact me bro!

It's in my selfish nature to assist people where I can so I can achieve my self-righteous goal of getting classic content?

Yeah, that's it...

[MarcusD]

Everything you need to know is here.

http://www.takproject.net/forums/index.php

struggling to find lol I have been there but couldn't find any downloads or whatnot.

[image]

It's a risk in humility but going through 'any lengths' to keep something open that someone requests remains closed from the beginning is not making something 'open source' - that's called stealing and is not part of the open source mantra.

EQEmulator is not a community where we leak the latest and greatest programmers in the communities' work. If you want that type of community, I recommend this website: www.ragezone.com

Lets be honest, we potentially stole EverQuest .. lol .. you know what I am talking about, lots of /zone 'ing in live with a little handy utility.

EQEmu is built more on the Cyberpunk mantra than 'just' open source.

[Uleat]

Lets be honest, we potentially stole EverQuest ..


If that's the case, then they were listening more to their marketers and not to their consumer base...

[MarcusD]

Lets be honest, we potentially stole EverQuest .. lol .. you know what I am talking about, lots of /zone 'ing in live with a little handy utility.

EQEmu is built more on the Cyberpunk mantra than 'just' open source.

<sarcasm>. I get the logic. Since we are using something from shrewd narcissist code hoarders we also should become shrewd code hoarding narcissists ourselves. Because only our project matters and how much we can monopolize the market. </sarcasm>

I can sense what happened. Someone got a little glimmer of paypal donation button gold in their eye. Not that accepting donations is bad, it is very good but once you get a glimpse of the end of the rainbow it can change the way you do things. We have to build for what is good and right and not stare too much at the donate button.

[Akkadius]

So, I've been here for a little while, I see posts of all variations that very much resemble history repeating itself, one of which is the classic topic.

People will complain until the bitter end that P99 doesn't "share" their source/db and what have you, but to be completely honest, they aren't obligated to and they literally don't owe the community anything.

It is no different than said organization (not to confuse with business) of a few guys who dump their heart and soul into a project with insane amounts of time, they don't have to share their work because it is their fucking work, regardless of whether it resembles what "should" be available to the public.

While it is very encouraged to give back and a person/organization doesn't have to, P99 has definitely given back in more ways than people have a fucking clue about directly and indirectly and its the attitude that something is owed that pisses me off regardless of the intricacies of the drama that transpire around said server.

Circle back to my original point of repeating, every once in a while there are people who have stars in their eyes with enough fume to get a server up and half working and then realize how much work they are in for, and that if it really was that simple than everyone would be doing it. Running a project is not just throwing some content and source together, it becomes a whole other realm when you all of a sudden have many players to respond to and integrity of the project as a whole to maintain.

That being said, appreciate that there is EQEmu in its current form and that there is as much availability as there is and there is in my opinion, an incredibly healthy attitude about sharing and contribution amongst many. I feel obligated myself to continue to facilitate this as much as I can even though my days of playing with server content have been gone for quite some time. It's been about giving back to a community that gives people so much freedom and ability to express their own creativity and learn things they had no idea they'd even affiliate themselves to.

To conclude, if someone wants to head up a next-to classic project, organize it and run it with a healthy, non-spiting attitude that is of P99 I more than welcome it. However I must say, good luck.

[Speedz]

TAKProject and EQMacEmu have seen many benefits from p99.
I fully agree with your sentiments Akka.
People tend to fly into the scene and do very little to investigate the history of something before making assumptions and flame wars.

[provocating]

TAKProject and EQMacEmu

The reason I say the same is that GiT for EQMacEmu points back to TakProject.

Aren't they the same? You also have to think that people like Haynor are involved in both projects. There is no way things are not implemented on both TakProject and P1999.

[Speedz]

TAKProject hosts the EQMacEmu parent. But it is slightly different in it's own ways.
Even before Haynar's involvement we saw a number of advances in the project directly from p99.

Only Haynar can comment on what is a direct take from p99. which from my understanding is nothing past code he personally made.

EQMacEmu is what EQEmu is to all general servers. p99, PEQ, and any other server in the list.

TAKP and p2002 just are servers based off that code with their own twist.
In a public hosted server there will always need to be some form of closed source.
Be it experimental unstable code, or security bits.

Also not all coders want their code public. So there is that issue that needs to be accounted for as well.
No single dev owes anything beyond giving credit for another coder's work. I think that has gotten lost multiple times in threads like this.

[provocating]

Thank you for clearing that up Speedz

[haynar]

Yes, I dev on P99 and Takp. I have helped out on EQEmu a little too, but not much.

I have added several of things I did on p99 to takp. Nothing is a cut and paste anymore. There are many differences that make it basically so I have to re-develop things.

Nilbog and Rogean, with what they do on p99, was never the intention to have a server so populated. And there has been many thing that were necessary for that too. P99 was always about recreating the "classic" experience. If people wanted to play there, that's great too.

There are things I co-develop on both projects, like changes to the pathing systems. Those have diverged enough, they are still similar, but different.

There are things I have added to takp, that should be added to eqemu too. The original rotation code on p99 was done by Kanras, and for the life of me I struggled so hard to figure out exactly how it worked. And for the longest time I couldn't. But when learning how to decypher the movement delta's on takp, I figured out how the heading delta worked too. That let me do a new implementation of heading deltas, to allow mobs to rotate during certain movements.

Could I do more to contribute to the main EQEmu project? Sure, if I had time. I like to play this game too. I have gotten a whole one blue of exp, in the last 3 months. But I don't care.

If you want a "classic" server handed to you to work on? Get the PEQ db, start making changes. Work at it 30-40 hrs a week, for the next 2 years, with 2 or 3 other people, and tada, you will have it too.

Good luck. Happy coding.

And Go SLAY the DRAGON!!!!

Haynar

[provocating]

If you want a "classic" server handed to you to work on? Get the PEQ db, start making changes. Work at it 30-40 hrs a week, for the next 2 years, with 2 or 3 other people, and tada, you will have it too.

Haynar

And you can take that to the bank. It is a huge time-sink. I work a 40 hour a week job and spend 4~5 hours a night working on my own server. I manage to spend a small amount of time playing, but that dwindles more and more. Luckily this week the Mantis tickets slowed down so I got a bit more play time in.

[MarcusD]

Yes, I dev on P99 and Takp. I have helped out on EQEmu a little too, but not much.

I have added several of things I did on p99 to takp. Nothing is a cut and paste anymore. There are many differences that make it basically so I have to re-develop things.

Nilbog and Rogean, with what they do on p99, was never the intention to have a server so populated. And there has been many thing that were necessary for that too. P99 was always about recreating the "classic" experience. If people wanted to play there, that's great too.

There are things I co-develop on both projects, like changes to the pathing systems. Those have diverged enough, they are still similar, but different.

There are things I have added to takp, that should be added to eqemu too. The original rotation code on p99 was done by Kanras, and for the life of me I struggled so hard to figure out exactly how it worked. And for the longest time I couldn't. But when learning how to decypher the movement delta's on takp, I figured out how the heading delta worked too. That let me do a new implementation of heading deltas, to allow mobs to rotate during certain movements.

Could I do more to contribute to the main EQEmu project? Sure, if I had time. I like to play this game too. I have gotten a whole one blue of exp, in the last 3 months. But I don't care.

If you want a "classic" server handed to you to work on? Get the PEQ db, start making changes. Work at it 30-40 hrs a week, for the next 2 years, with 2 or 3 other people, and tada, you will have it too.

Good luck. Happy coding.

And Go SLAY the DRAGON!!!!

Haynar

So your saying that you guys feel like forcing everyone to spend 12,000 hours so they can start actually improving p99 database instead of reinventing the wheel? If p99 really only cared about the classic implementation and didn't care about having a monopoly of players then why would you place a 12,000 hr hurdle to others who have the same goal? Come on don't tell me it isn't about the coin.

In a free society anyone can do what they want but that doesn't stop me and people like me for calling people out on their BS.

I wonder if any of the p99 donators have ever asked for an audit to see where their money is ACTUALLY going ;). That would be interesting.

[provocating]

I wonder if any of the p99 donators have ever asked for an audit to see where their money is ACTUALLY going ;). That would be interesting.

No one is forcing their hand in donations. They contribute because they know how much the developers bust their asses, daily. No matter how you feel about p1999, they owe you nor me nothing. As I said before, if you want something bad enough then start working on it, like now.

[Speedz]

If you took as much time looking through databases that ARE available as is spent stirring up a pot that is not on the stove, you would see that the EQMacEmu database is one of the most accurate to classic open databases out there. If anything is wrong, we take reports and investigate it and improve it. There are a number of things that are incorrect on p99 that were improved on in our database. But they by NO means have a monopoly.

Grab a database that is open and start looking through it. You may answer much of your own concerns.

[ghanja]

https://40.media.tumblr.com/1ea52789bc3b950eed17e4b7e0d0d727/tumblr_nuvg6j0xBj1r31cwco1_400.jpg

[MarcusD]

If you took as much time looking through databases that ARE available as is spent stirring up a pot that is not on the stove, you would see that the EQMacEmu database is one of the most accurate to classic open databases out there. If anything is wrong, we take reports and investigate it and improve it. There are a number of things that are incorrect on p99 that were improved on in our database. But they by NO means have a monopoly.

Grab a database that is open and start looking through it. You may answer much of your own concerns.

So this would work with regular eqemu?

[provocating]

So this would work with regular eqemu?

Sure it will, with work.

[mgellan]

Proceed with caution.

Thanks man, I hear ya and I am :) Basically, my post was to see if there was an interest in participating in a project that basically makes a classic progression a reality that's not under the control of a select few people. At this point, I'm not seeing the interest from more than a couple of people who I don't feel particularly compatible with.

Certainly EQEMU is a starting point but, of course, the project's aims are not Progression, it's to get as close to Live as possible. Since those of us who enjoy Classic generally dislike Live, that's not what floats our boats.

So, I'm gonna dick around getting Trilogy working. Thanks for the input!

Regards,
Mg

[Speedz]

So this would work with regular eqemu?

Thanks man, I hear ya and I am :) Basically, my post was to see if there was an interest in participating in a project that basically makes a classic progression a reality that's not under the control of a select few people. At this point, I'm not seeing the interest from more than a couple of people who I don't feel particularly compatible with.

Certainly EQEMU is a starting point but, of course, the project's aims are not Progression, it's to get as close to Live as possible. Since those of us who enjoy Classic generally dislike Live, that's not what floats our boats.

So, I'm gonna dick around getting Trilogy working. Thanks for the input!

Regards,
Mg

EQMacEmu is the closest to classic as far as publicly available databases. We have altered the tables a bit from the EQEmu standard. But the data is there.
It will take a bit of work to get it compatible with any client other than the OSX and the specific PC client we use for PC.

But if your goal is to not use "Live" versions and are ok with not having a WoW cam view (ie chase camera) our code is also public. Using our codebase with the database is very close to any classic view with minimal work to get going in comparison.

I also made a nifty from scratch startup script for linux that is included in the source. It will take a base install Ubuntu 14.04 with nothing on it and install all that is needed plus a few helpful things. Then it sets up the server itself.

The only thing we don't have that you may be looking for is actual progression base in regards to item/era specific toggling as well as abilities/spells. That bit is not automated or easily set. Zones however are.

[MarcusD]

Sure it will, with work.

Thanks for the "no It doesn't work" answer. Anything is possible with work. 'How much work' is the only question.

[provocating]

Isn't that subjective to your skill level? Not was not an asshole response, just the truth. If you have knowledge of EqEmu then less than 30 minutes maybe. May have to add/remove table fields, etc. Peq has changed their structure of the tables here and there. EqMac is just a bit different.

[MarcusD]

EQMacEmu is the closest to classic as far as publicly available databases. We have altered the tables a bit from the EQEmu standard. But the data is there.
It will take a bit of work to get it compatible with any client other than the OSX and the specific PC client we use for PC.

But if your goal is to not use "Live" versions and are ok with not having a WoW cam view (ie chase camera) our code is also public. Using our codebase with the database is very close to any classic view with minimal work to get going in comparison.

I also made a nifty from scratch startup script for linux that is included in the source. It will take a base install Ubuntu 14.04 with nothing on it and install all that is needed plus a few helpful things. Then it sets up the server itself.

The only thing we don't have that you may be looking for is actual progression base in regards to item/era specific toggling as well as abilities/spells. That bit is not automated or easily set. Zones however are.

This sounds really good. what is your PC client? My personal goal is running a LAN server so I don't really care about EQEmu's hosting service. Is there a walkthrough for getting a local eqmacemu server set up for PC? Ubuntu 14 doesn't install correctly on my PC :/. I hate "progression". "progression is how soe ruined eq lol. I like keeping things the same,.

[jpyou127]

I would be interested in running an AlKabor type server but with Eqemu. I have a VPS with 8gb ram 8 pros and 120gb space running linux. Any direction would be much appreciated.

Celestial

[Speedz]

This sounds really good. what is your PC client? My personal goal is running a LAN server so I don't really care about EQEmu's hosting service. Is there a walkthrough for getting a local eqmacemu server set up for PC? Ubuntu 14 doesn't install correctly on my PC :/. I hate "progression". "progression is how soe ruined eq lol. I like keeping things the same,.

The wiki which is player ran and not hosted by the team is here, there is client info in the "Getting started".

http://wiki.takp.info/index.php?title=Main_Page

Our main server repo is here: https://github.com/EQMacEmu/Server

And as far as a Windows server setup, there is no guide yet.
But I created a GUI in C# that has not been widely tested yet.
I run it locally to do code testing and seen no real issues.
It sets up a bare system with the server on Windows 7.
Only hitch is all pre-requisite programs need to be installed with defaults and you need to source in the loginserver sql files from in the source folder.

The GUI source is here:
https://github.com/stheno/EQEmuGUI

Eventually I will make a batch file that runs exactly like the linux bash file.
Even tho i am normally not a bash/command prompt kinda person and normally like GUI interaction, I tend to favor the new bash/batch scripts for all this after the mods that have been applied to these scripts. But the GUI should give you a good start.

Edit: EQMacEmu does not connect to EQEmu's Loginserver. It runs on a standalone, but there is an option to connect your world to the TAKP loginserver to list on it's server select as well as take advantage of the security measures implemented through TAKP.

[MarcusD]

The wiki which is player ran and not hosted by the team is here, there is client info in the "Getting started".

http://wiki.takp.info/index.php?title=Main_Page

Our main server repo is here: https://github.com/EQMacEmu/Server

And as far as a Windows server setup, there is no guide yet.
But I created a GUI in C# that has not been widely tested yet.
I run it locally to do code testing and seen no real issues.
It sets up a bare system with the server on Windows 7.
Only hitch is all pre-requisite programs need to be installed with defaults and you need to source in the loginserver sql files from in the source folder.

The GUI source is here:
https://github.com/stheno/EQEmuGUI

Eventually I will make a batch file that runs exactly like the linux bash file.
Even tho i am normally not a bash/command prompt kinda person and normally like GUI interaction, I tend to favor the new bash/batch scripts for all this after the mods that have been applied to these scripts. But the GUI should give you a good start.

Edit: EQMacEmu does not connect to EQEmu's Loginserver. It runs on a standalone, but there is an option to connect your world to the TAKP loginserver to list on it's server select as well as take advantage of the security measures implemented through TAKP.

That sounds like it would fit my bill pretty well and get me closer to my goal than eqemu can. So I download the gui and will it tell me which files to move where and what programs to install?

[Speedz]

Just have to compile and run it.
It will auto copy itself to the right spot and rerun, then pop up a server setup window.
If you get lost, click the help button. There is a image that pops up that describes the steps.

After you run it, you will need to manually go into the source and apply the loginserver sql files.