Everquest vs Leveling

[Huppy]

As the title of this thread implies, I actually consider playing a game of Everquest
something different than EQ-Leveling.
I am quite suprised, after watching the casual players, a lot of them don't stop
to play the rest of the content. It's more zoom zoom, get leveled. Nothing else.
Forget all the tradeskills, quests, etc., that one can do in the game, then, stand
up and say "yup, I got leveled, now what?" hahaha
It really does make me chuckle, some people are so bent and determined to get
leveled, I have an NPC sitting there ready to dish out 5K plat and clicky item to
simply go kill a lvl 11 lion and do a hand-in.
Everyone has their preferences in how they like to play. Even though one can
set up a whole server to limit a players' choices, I really am someone who
believes in letting people make their own choices. But it's interesting to watch.
Back when I played on live servers, I spent a lot time out killing mobs, not so
much for level exp, but to farm stuff for tradeskills. I had a lot of fun with a
chanter making jewelry and my shaman making potions.
I still eventually got leveled, after several months, but there was no hurry.
I really enjoyed most of the things involved with Everquest along the way.

[chrsschb]

When I play I tend to do things the slowest imaginable way because I love hitting my favorite zones, even if they're not the best.

I'm that masochist who loves spending a while in Mistmoore, even though it's arguably one of the hardest zones in those level ranges, and the drops are hard to get. Or the guy that will just hang out in Lower Guk and doing whatever. Blackburrow probably one of my favorite zones.

[Huppy]

I had a ton of fun in Oasis of Marr. I remember my war, at lvl 12'ish I think, I was running
through North Ro. Another player on a horse hailed me, he looked at my gear and then
handed me a Blackened Acrylia Greatsword and Silver Chitlin Handwraps. That made my
day, I hadn't even fully geared my toon, but that sword helped me a lot, haha

[phorest]

think of how different the game would be if the max level was 20. If the exp was half the rate of live. If trade skills and questing paid off big time.
I don't think anyone not playing on p99 has the attention span for that. so many want to be the biggest, the baddest and to do everything first.
the whole race to the end game is why there is so much player turn-over and so many servers come and go..

[Huppy]

Back when I played on live, everytime a new expansion come out, the big uber guilds would
bulldoze through it in one to two week, all their members at max level and new gear, then
they sat around for several months waiting for new content. Hahaha
I never joined a guild on live and even one of my toons, a war, I soloed him most of the way
to 65, with the odd group here and there, got his blacksmithing skills maxed. Took a lot of
tedious time to get him there, but it was a lot of fun.

[Charles082986]

Phorest,

The biggest issue I've seen with making tradeskills amazingly useful is that once you get tradeskills up, it becomes incredibly easy to flood the market with high end goods.
However if you restrict materials to try and curb this, you see situations like you see on p1999, where things (like epic quests) are permanently camped and the only way to get what you need is to buy it, completely undermining the purpose in the first place.

Huppy,
I saw that a lot in other MMOs as well. I've been in guilds where we were pushing for realm first on raids in WoW, and it was a god awful nightmare. In WoW's MoP expansion, there were guildies who had 3 accounts and 33 farms that they spent hours a day maintaining just to have a full run of raid mats and make enough extra that they could buy up other guilds' raid disenchant mats. It was obscene. I have a family and a job. I would much rather spend 2-3 hours killing some goblins or hunting down some pieces to a new anklet (just did that HFL DRU anklet quest on P1999) than poopsock my way to max level.

[chrsschb]

Phorest,

The biggest issue I've seen with making tradeskills amazingly useful is that once you get tradeskills up, it becomes incredibly easy to flood the market with high end goods.
However if you restrict materials to try and curb this, you see situations like you see on p1999, where things (like epic quests) are permanently camped and the only way to get what you need is to buy it, completely undermining the purpose in the first place.

Balancing tradeskills to be useful in a real economy is tough. It's nice to have things to make that are competitive with raid gear, but of course that comes with complicated recipes or tough to get drops. There also needs to be a balance between raid and tradeskill. Too much tradeskill (or too good) and no one raids.

Huppy,
I saw that a lot in other MMOs as well. I've been in guilds where we were pushing for realm first on raids in WoW, and it was a god awful nightmare. In WoW's MoP expansion, there were guildies who had 3 accounts and 33 farms that they spent hours a day maintaining just to have a full run of raid mats and make enough extra that they could buy up other guilds' raid disenchant mats. It was obscene. I have a family and a job. I would much rather spend 2-3 hours killing some goblins or hunting down some pieces to a new anklet (just did that HFL DRU anklet quest on P1999) than poopsock my way to max level.

Main reason I quit WoW. I was spending 4-8 hours a day farming materials for 3-4 raids a week.

[Huppy]

On live, I was selling a lot of tradeskill items in Baz. I had a chanter making jewelry and
a shaman making potions as well. I put a trader mule in there while I farmed and made
more stock, haha

[tdanger84]

Huppy, you are correct, but in order for people to do things like that there has to be some kind of benefit. I will use your server as an example because I played on it for awhile. You have merchants that sell defiant gear for all level ranges, as well as jewelry and summoned items. This is exactly the formula for the "eq leveling" experience that you were describing. why bother venturing out to different dungeons looking for equipment upgrades and such when better gear is available to be bought from a merchant? At that point leveling is basically all there is to do. IMO if you want the more original EQ experience of doing quests and adventuring to different zones looking for cool drops then the rewards should be worth the effort. I have played on pretty much every server I could find on emu and to me the ones that are the most fun are the ones that let you obtain all the original equipment and such and either tune it up or tune down the content to fit. It is also cool to lower req lvl, and remove lore/no drop tags on items.

[Huppy]

Huppy, you are correct, but in order for people to do things like that there has to be some kind of benefit.

The benefit that each individual gets would be a preference, I guess.
What someone, like myself calls a benefit in this game is simply the fun of playing.
I've never looked at a task, or a quest and thought "What do I get out of it?"
I don't need to benefit anything in the end, it's the fun of doing it all.
One example, a halfling doing the armor quests in Rivervale. The cheesy little
items you get from doing it all are NOT the reward or benefit. It's the fun of
doing it.

When you said the following, you hit it right on the nail:

why bother venturing out to different dungeons looking for equipment upgrades and such when better gear is available to be bought from a merchant?

TEMPTATION is what leads people to make their choices. One could totally
ignore those merchants with defiant gear. One could ignore the Bots and even
forget about the mercs. I would CHALLENGE anyone to start a level one toon
and don't go near the PoK for free buffs, don't go near bazaar for items. And
don't go near the Tutorial. Don't spawn any bots or mercs. Put your MQ away.
How long could you play like that AND enjoy it ???

Eventually, THIS server is heading to be EXACTLY what eq live was when OoW
came out. All the gear and items will have the tags they had on live.
Those defiant merchants will not be there, the summoned gear will be gone and
any merchants set up will only have items that you typically would of seen on
live servers. Anything custom that I have in place now, is just to let people
piddle around while I work on it all.

My server is like a backyard BBQ. The neighbours are more than welcome to
come and enjoy it, but they will have to eat what I am cooking. :)

[sunbeam]

Not sure this is what you are talking about, but you have to level to do things that are in the game.

You can't travel effectively in most zones until you reach a level reasonable to do so.

You can't farm items for trade skills until you have the level to do that. Same for the quests.

Just talking about classic/kunark/velious it seems to me like you really need to be about 50th level (on most classes) before you can tool about in reasonable safety and do whatever it is you need to do (get velium, silk, etc).

[Castinonya]

Not sure this is what you are talking about, but you have to level to do things that are in the game.

You can't travel effectively in most zones until you reach a level reasonable to do so.

You can't farm items for trade skills until you have the level to do that. Same for the quests.

Just talking about classic/kunark/velious it seems to me like you really need to be about 50th level (on most classes) before you can tool about in reasonable safety and do whatever it is you need to do (get velium, silk, etc).

I think he means more along the lines of people blow through the levels and ignore content. Kind of like how in classic EQ (think P99) people would do the side quests for better gear at their level such as Paw of Opolla. Nowadays people just blast through level 70 and ignore things that were intended for level 10s to complete. "Skipping" the game content if you will.

[Huppy]

I think he means more along the lines of people blow through the levels and ignore content. Kind of like how in classic EQ (think P99) people would do the side quests for better gear at their level such as Paw of Opolla. Nowadays people just blast through level 70 and ignore things that were intended for level 10s to complete. "Skipping" the game content if you will.

Yes, thats exactly what I was referring to. One good example of how some
just don't want to do any questing, I have spent considerable effort trying to
encourage people to visit the Grinch npc on my server for a simple little quest.
Not many have been interested in it. Just involves going to karana, hunting
down a lion, looting an item and turning it in. What they get for that turn in,
is something they will be very disappointed about when they realize what they
missed when the quest is gone. (5000 plat and a clicky item), for a simple task.
And they will miss out on it, simply because leveling was much more important.
Its an individual preference, I can respect that. Everyone is different.

[Uleat]

Could always force players to level up at their guild trainers..

..and instead of 'hell levels,' implement a quest system through GMs (Guild Masters) to raise their level cap every 5 levels or so :D

[Huppy]

Not sure this is what you are talking about, but you have to level to do things that are in the game.

You can't travel effectively in most zones until you reach a level reasonable to do so.

You can't farm items for trade skills until you have the level to do that. Same for the quests.

Just talking about classic/kunark/velious it seems to me like you really need to be about 50th level (on most classes) before you can tool about in reasonable safety and do whatever it is you need to do (get velium, silk, etc).

Sunbeam, when you say "about 50th level" to hunt tradeskill items, again, it's
not about the "higher end" of the game. Tradeskills can be done at lower tiers
just as much as mid to high level. Quests can be done at low levels as well.
But some people think of those as too trivial to enjoy doing them.
If one does a combine to produce an item, what difference does it make what
level that item is done at or what stats it has for the level. All tradeskills are
the same concept. You hunt/farm stuff, combine a recipe and produce an item.
Building up your tradeskill along the way.
I would have just as much fun doing it at level 20, as 50 or 70. Same with
the quests. Some people think the low level quests are too boring and the
high end ones are where the game is.
Have you ever watched a group of level 10's taking on a named mob ? It can
be just as exciting as a group of level 65's taking on a named mob.
One time back on live, I sat and watched a group fight Exterminator Sutton in
Rivervale, for a quest. That fight was over an hour long. It was awesome.

[Huppy]

Could always force players to level up at their guild trainers..

..and instead of 'hell levels,' implement a quest system through GMs (Guild Masters) to raise their level cap every 5 levels or so :D

Hmmmmm, my thinking coffee cup just came out, lol

[Huppy]

Once in awhile, a player will log on and ask, "Is there a porter on this server?"
I say "What for?"
They tell me they don't want to run all over the place, would rather get ported.
I have started explaining to them all about the trick to avoiding that. I tell them
not to worry, this server is set up so your toon does all the running instead of you.
You can sit back in your chair, have a beer and your toon will run forever without
getting tired. But don't tell other servers, they will want the script for it. (smirk)

[provocating]

On Legacy of Froststone we are having a half XP weekend for the holidays. We also fight with no weapons, in the snow....uphill....with no shoes.

[Huppy]

Hahahahaha

[Burningsoul]

Don't forget the holiday NPC that hands out the leet christmas gear (http://everquest.allakhazam.com/search.html?q=sad+exploitation) and mod rods!

[nenelan]

Once in awhile, a player will log on and ask, "Is there a porter on this server?"
I say "What for?"
They tell me they don't want to run all over the place, would rather get ported.
I have started explaining to them all about the trick to avoiding that. I tell them
not to worry, this server is set up so your toon does all the running instead of you.
You can sit back in your chair, have a beer and your toon will run forever without
getting tired. But don't tell other servers, they will want the script for it. (smirk)

This worked back when EQ released. Everything was new, fresh, and a sense of wonderment was attached to the game. Exploration was required. There was no in game cartography system. Fan sites were just starting to pop up. Every corner had something NEW to see.

15+ years later, that just doesn't really work as well as it used to. The crowd that grew up with game has seen it all. There's only so many times you can run from Butcher Boats to Kelethin for a Bind then on to Crushbone before it is no longer new, it is no longer novel, it is instead a time sink.

15+ years later, the crowd that grew up with the game have jobs, lives, wives, husbands, children. What we do not have is time for a time sink for the sole purpose of a time sink.

New blood just getting in to the game don't know the paths, don't know the shortcuts, and have hundreds of other games that give instant gratification just for playing. If you're after new players, something has to be in place to keep them after the initial draw, and high travel times aren't going to be doing that.

I enjoy long quests, I enjoy not having my hand held through them, I enjoy rewards on paths less traveled.

There's nothing enjoyable about having to trek across 8 zones just in time to have to log off to do something around the house instead of using that time productively. Even if there's PoK books in place, a few zones require quite a bit of real time to get to, and that's assuming you have some kind of run speed mod.

[Huppy]

This worked back when EQ released. Everything was new, fresh, and a sense of wonderment was attached to the game. Exploration was required. There was no in game cartography system. Fan sites were just starting to pop up. Every corner had something NEW to see.

15+ years later, that just doesn't really work as well as it used to. The crowd that grew up with game has seen it all. There's only so many times you can run from Butcher Boats to Kelethin for a Bind then on to Crushbone before it is no longer new, it is no longer novel, it is instead a time sink.

15+ years later, the crowd that grew up with the game have jobs, lives, wives, husbands, children. What we do not have is time for a time sink for the sole purpose of a time sink. crowd that grew up with the game

New blood just getting in to the game don't know the paths, don't know the shortcuts, and have hundreds of other games that give instant gratification just for playing. If you're after new players, something has to be in place to keep them after the initial draw, and high travel times aren't going to be doing that.

I enjoy long quests, I enjoy not having my hand held through them, I enjoy rewards on paths less traveled.

There's nothing enjoyable about having to trek across 8 zones just in time to have to log off to do something around the house instead of using that time productively. Even if there's PoK books in place, a few zones require quite a bit of real time to get to, and that's assuming you have some kind of run speed mod.

If someone only has time to run across some zones and then log off ? What
would they be doing logging on in the first place, with that little time ?
There is tons of things I was able to do before I inherited commitments in
my real life, when I had to give them up, no time for it. Its part of life.

Various servers on here are developing back to a time when they enjoyed EQ.
Hence: they work towards game mechanics of that same era.
I rather encourage the whole idea of having a variety of EQ eras on here,
it gives people,(new and old) the opportunity to explore them all.

But on another note, when it comes to "If you're after new players..." that
is a competitive thing based on a individuals' reason for starting a server.
I didn't start my server simply to be a "player collector". It really is a lot
about my own enjoyment. Its put up as a public server to share with others.
I can't speak for any other server owners, but I'm sure there is few out there
who started their own server and possibly set it up to their preference so
they can enjoy it.