EQEmu Future - RELAX

[plesky]

People need to mellow out a bit about recent events and the future of the EQEmu. Yes, it was a big hit on the community and got some people in a panic, and even created trials and tribulations for some, but there were underlaying conditions specific to the server directly involved. 20 years ago, Sony shut down an EQEmu server because of issues with that particular server at the time and it may happen again in future years.

Sony/Daybreak/DarkPaw, they hold all the rights to anything "Everquest", but they've known about the EQEmu for many years and kindly ignored it, letting the community do it's thing. But Daybreak is a business, created to make money and make profits, just like any other business. They will always do what they need to, in protecting their interests. If you walked through my backyard, innocently passing through, I will ignore you. But if you disrespect it, you're going to get shut down real quick. That's reality. My backyard is my property and nobody has any rights to it.

Putting it bluntly, when shit happens, sure it stinks, but instead of plugging your nose and running away, clean it up and rebuild, just like they did with the World Trade Centre. EQEmu is not going anywhere, anytime soon.

[Spike]

Anything we can do to help? I noticed the docs are gone and the Discord channel is basically gone.

[plesky]

Anything we can do to help? I noticed the docs are gone and the Discord channel is basically gone.

The biggest blow was all the documentation. It was more beneficial for new people just starting their journey in creating a server, as well as the "installer" that made it easy for them. I never got into the discord, but that was another support artery for people. I read somewhere that another new discord was started by somebody, but all the documentation on the old one, I assume is gone too.

The EQEmu source code and quests on github hasn't had any commitments for 3 weeks, so not sure if any developers are going to continue with that. But they have windows and linux binary releases on there as well. (for those not compiling their own).

[blackdragonsdg]

Many people have moved to a new discord called New Tanaan. https://discord.com/invite/9yd6tg9msD
That should be an invite link as it was posted on discord. If not you can still go to the old discord, scroll through the messages and find a link there as well.

The documentation and tooling are being preserved as much as possible.

https://docs.eqemu.dev/

https://gitlab.com/TheGrandLibrary

[plesky]

The documentation and tooling are being preserved as much as possible.

https://docs.eqemu.dev/

https://gitlab.com/TheGrandLibrary

Oh, I didn't know it was in the works, that is awesome. Thank YOU! Maybe we'll get lucky and somebody will update the links on this site. :)

[Lane]

People need to mellow out a bit about recent events and the future of the EQEmu. Yes, it was a big hit on the community and got some people in a panic, and even created trials and tribulations for some, but there were underlaying conditions specific to the server directly involved. 20 years ago, Sony shut down an EQEmu server because of issues with that particular server at the time and it may happen again in future years.

Sony/Daybreak/DarkPaw, they hold all the rights to anything "Everquest", but they've known about the EQEmu for many years and kindly ignored it, letting the community do it's thing. But Daybreak is a business, created to make money and make profits, just like any other business. They will always do what they need to, in protecting their interests. If you walked through my backyard, innocently passing through, I will ignore you. But if you disrespect it, you're going to get shut down real quick. That's reality. My backyard is my property and nobody has any rights to it.

Putting it bluntly, when shit happens, sure it stinks, but instead of plugging your nose and running away, clean it up and rebuild, just like they did with the World Trade Centre. EQEmu is not going anywhere, anytime soon.

Its not about that they “shut down a server” but the fact that 90% of the lawsuit will apply to any server out there.

Also, the “new discord” is very toxic and has no moderation. Proceed at your own risk, but it’s nothing like the previous EQ Emu discord or community of devs that were respectful and helpful to one another.

[image]

Its not about that they “shut down a server” but the fact that 90% of the lawsuit will apply to any server out there.

Also, the “new discord” is very toxic and has no moderation. Proceed at your own risk, but it’s nothing like the previous EQ Emu discord or community of devs that were respectful and helpful to one another.

This tells me all I need to know about what was lost. Also no one should be giving opinions on how people decide to move forward here or how they should react. The op of this thread "joined March 2025" and talking about Winters Roar?? Lol what a joke this all is.

[plesky]

This tells me all I need to know about what was lost. Also no one should be giving opinions on how people decide to move forward here or how they should react. The op of this thread "joined March 2025" and talking about Winters Roar?? Lol what a joke this all is.

With all due respect mister image, sorry, but my OP was all about the encouragement of "moving forward", not about how they should do it, so I am assuming you simply misinterpreted it. If that's a big joke to you, sorry to hear that. I would also suggest taking those "forum join dates" with a grain of salt. I played on WR before they got that C&D order and chose to shut it down to avoid the heat. I was even reading and using some of your helpful advice back then, going through the grind of trying to create a server, when things were a lot more difficult for newbies in the mid 2000's Glad to see you're still around though.

[image]

With all due respect mister image, sorry, but my OP was all about the encouragement of "moving forward", not about how they should do it, so I am assuming you simply misinterpreted it. If that's a big joke to you, sorry to hear that. I would also suggest taking those "forum join dates" with a grain of salt. I played on WR before they got that C&D order and chose to shut it down to avoid the heat. I was even reading and using some of your helpful advice back then, going through the grind of trying to create a server, when things were a lot more difficult for newbies in the mid 2000's Glad to see you're still around though.

Apologies for my bluntness, it was hard to understand your perspective given the vague context on the past event, but since you know and were there, I consider this situation far worse than what happened to WR (which was as mentioned, a C&D to a direct server only, which was really independent of eqemu at the time, and later just popped up on a new name some time later SoD).

This impact also includes the reasons you mention, before was very difficult to get setup and unfortunately this current entanglement caused important contributors who were doing a good job solving those types of problems had to take the former in terms of your suggestions going forward for the project. Or some cannot contribute outside of their own server/to another game emulator with agreements they have signed with "The Company".

As always, this project was for the love of the game and everyone wanted to have some fun in their small EverQuest world. I would hope those who are such a big part of the picture can take part in the project without specific servers legal issues impacting their contributions.

[Faydane]

I have to say; I feel much better about the future now that I can see Spire and the EqEmu-Stack will continue.

[Mycohl]

The documentation and tooling are being preserved as much as possible.

https://docs.eqemu.dev/

https://gitlab.com/TheGrandLibrary

So, am I led to believe that DPG had the eqemu.io domain seized? And then (I assume) filed a C&D with MS/GitHub to remove akk-stack? How are either of those actions legal without a court order? Or did they get a court order from the THJ lawsuit?

[plesky]

So, am I led to believe that DPG had the eqemu.io domain seized? And then (I assume) filed a C&D with MS/GitHub to remove akk-stack? How are either of those actions legal without a court order? Or did they get a court order from the THJ lawsuit?

Not sure where you got all that from, but any of the resources that recently disappeared, (maps, database repo, etc.) were all being hosted by one of the main admin/devs in the EQEmu and he decided to step away from the whole project, shutting down all the public hosting with it. Now, there are people scrambling to get new hosting in place, (like the docs), etc.

[Mycohl]

Not sure where you got all that from, but any of the resources that recently disappeared, (maps, database repo, etc.) were all being hosted by one of the main admin/devs in the EQEmu and he decided to step away from the whole project, shutting down all the public hosting with it. Now, there are people scrambling to get new hosting in place, (like the docs), etc.

I didn't get it from anywhere, I tried to infer it from available information. I can't find any sort of announcement, only people speaking in vague terms about "the event" or "things that happened".

Was this departure announced only on the discord or something? Why do people in this community keep obeying in advance? Why did this person (I'm assuming Akkadius?) decide to fuck everyone rather than simply transferring the domain names and hosting?

Those are hypothetical questions; I understand that this sort of thing tends to happen in our society, especially in areas where legal status is uncertain. Lots of rug pulls in the news, lately.

[plesky]

I didn't get it from anywhere, I tried to infer it from available information. I can't find any sort of announcement, only people speaking in vague terms about "the event" or "things that happened".

Was this departure announced only on the discord or something? Why do people in this community keep obeying in advance? Why did this person (I'm assuming Akkadius?) decide to fuck everyone rather than simply transferring the domain names and hosting?

Those are hypothetical questions; I understand that this sort of thing tends to happen in our society, especially in areas where legal status is uncertain. Lots of rug pulls in the news, lately.

This whole thread needs to be put to rest and frankly, I'm sorry I even made that OP. (live and learn) No matter what happened, behind the scenes, with anyone, it's all done and over with, people are moving on.

[blackdragonsdg]

So, am I led to believe that DPG had the eqemu.io domain seized? And then (I assume) filed a C&D with MS/GitHub to remove akk-stack? How are either of those actions legal without a court order? Or did they get a court order from the THJ lawsuit?

Read https://massivelyop.com/2025/09/27/the-everquest-emu-community-scrambles-as-multiple-servers-lose-hosting-and-the-subreddit-goes-dark/

There are more than a few links off the url above that will help bring you up to speed. akk-stack being lost was a side effect of what happened. It is being worked on to bring it back. You need to get on the new discord called New Tanaan. Don't have link to it atm.

[datacurve]

im having a major issue.. since akk is out of the game and projecteq.net is down now i have no way of getting the database server files sql etc... seems everquest is really going to take a final death

[Rizilla]

Eqemu Discord (https://discord.gg/xFcXn5dmMy)

PEQ Databases (https://db.eqemu.dev/)

EQemu Docs (https://docs.eqemu.dev/)

PEQ Quests (https://github.com/ProjectEQ/projecteqquests)

EQemu Maps (https://github.com/EQEmuTools/eqemu-maps)

[everquestera1]

What DayBreak doesn't seem to understand is that shutting down EQEMU is shutting them down. The only reason EverQuest is still a thing is due to the DEEP ROOTS of eqemu allowing people to customize content and relive the nostalgia. These same people are the active account holders of Everquest.
It would be smarter to employ their competition and move forward rather than starting a blood bath here and alienating everyone.

[Beelzy]

What makes the THJ case so troubling is not merely that Daybreak chose to enforce its rights, but that it appears to have done so after allowing the broader EQEmu ecosystem to operate for an extraordinarily long time with little to no visible recent enforcement.

That timeline matters.

By the community’s understanding, the few cease-and-desist examples people can even point to are extremely old, roughly in the range of 17 to 20 years ago, not part of any recent, clear, or consistently applied enforcement pattern. Meanwhile, for the following 10 plus years, the EQEmu scene appears to have remained openly active, with all kinds of servers operating in plain sight: custom-content servers, free-to-play servers, and fan-run servers that went well beyond narrow “strict era” preservation. Even taking the court order at face value, the public record only says Daybreak had sent cease-and-desist letters on “multiple occasions,” without showing a broad, recent, visible pattern of sustained enforcement across the emulator scene.

That is why the issue here is not simply abstract copyright ownership. It is also practical reliance created through prolonged tolerance.

When a rights-holder allows a community to operate openly for well over a decade without any clear recent crackdown, while also permitting a wide range of server types to exist, it is entirely understandable that people begin to believe they are operating in the clear so long as they do not cross into an obvious subscription model, mandatory access fees, or direct payment-for-entry. That practical expectation did not come out of nowhere. It arose from years of lived reality. So even if one does not want to say Daybreak legally “forfeited” every possible claim in the strictest technical sense, it is still fair to say that Daybreak slept on this environment in any meaningful practical sense for a very long time, and in doing so helped create the exact reliance and norms the EQEmu community later operated under.

That is what makes THJ look less like a neutral enforcement action and more like a selective enforcement action.

For more than 10 years, emulator servers of many kinds were tolerated. Custom-content servers were tolerated. Free-to-play servers were tolerated. The broader emulator scene was tolerated. Then, all of a sudden, one server became too large, too visible, too attractive, and too popular, and that was no longer tolerated. That pattern is difficult to ignore. It strongly suggests that what changed was not the underlying existence of emulation itself, but the fact that one particular project became successful enough to feel threatening. The later Quarm agreement reinforces exactly that interpretation: Quarm was allowed to continue only under tight restrictions, including a 1200-player cap requested by Daybreak and removal of some custom content that Daybreak considered beyond the line for a personal, non-commercial fan server.

That matters because it shows the line Daybreak appears to be drawing is not simply emulation versus no emulation. The line seems to be this: small, controlled, tightly limited, non-commercial, mostly era-faithful fan servers may survive under restrictive terms, but larger custom servers that become too popular or too culturally significant are treated as threats.

THJ itself was still free to play. No one had to pay to access the server. No one had to pay a subscription. No one had to purchase the right to log in. The donations described by players were optional, one-time contributions, not recurring mandatory payments. And the reported added benefits were communal and serverwide, not personal or pay-to-win in the ordinary sense. That distinction is important. A free fan server receiving voluntary support from players who want to help cover hardware, bandwidth, development, maintenance, and the administrators’ time is not the same thing, in ordinary language, as operating a subscription business.

That is also why the repeated rhetorical use of “$100,000 a month” needs context. Even if a court accepted evidence that THJ at one point brought in as much as that amount, a launch-period donation spike is not the same as a stable long-term monthly business model. The public reporting describes that figure as an “as much as” number, and the injunction order itself framed THJ as something the defendants had “created – and profited from,” but that still does not erase the practical distinction between a surge of voluntary launch donations tied to sudden popularity and a durable pay-to-play commercial operation.

The better characterisation is this: THJ appears to have remained a free server supported by optional one-time donations from players who wanted it to succeed and scale. As with streamers, creators, or community projects more broadly, people can choose to support the time and labour behind something they value without that support becoming a mandatory fee for access. Players were not paying to be allowed to play EverQuest on THJ. They were supporting a project they enjoyed and wanted to keep stable, especially during a period of rapid growth.

Of course, courts often look at economic substance more than labels, and the court plainly treated THJ’s donation system as part of a profit and harm analysis. But that does not mean the community’s own distinction is meaningless. It remains highly relevant to the fairness of the situation, because there is a real difference between a server forcing payment for access and a server remaining free while receiving voluntary support from grateful players.

Another major problem for Daybreak’s position is that it clearly had less destructive alternatives available.

Project 1999 had a written arrangement with Daybreak, and the court relied on that fact to say there was nothing in the record suggesting THJ had been led to believe it could lawfully profit from EverQuest IP without a written agreement or licence. Quarm then received its own formal arrangement only after the THJ lawsuit, again showing that Daybreak knows perfectly well how to regularise a fan server when it wants to. That is precisely why the THJ response feels so aggressive. Daybreak could have opened contact. It could have issued a cease-and-desist. It could have demanded changes. It could have offered a compliance path. It could have imposed caps or restrictions before going nuclear. Instead, according to EFF’s criticism, it chose the federal-litigation route in a way that looked designed not only to shut down one server but to send a warning through the wider community.

That is the deeper issue here.

Even if Daybreak retained legal rights on paper, its conduct appears highly selective, historically inconsistent, and unfair to a community that had every reason to believe that fan-run coexistence was tolerated so long as servers remained free to access and outside a mandatory-payment model. The old Project 1999 arrangement does not change that, because it is itself old, not evidence of recent broad enforcement. And the Quarm deal only arrived after Daybreak had already sued THJ, making it look less like a long-standing balanced policy and more like a newly tightened regime imposed after one custom server became too successful.

So the strongest conclusion is not simply that Daybreak had no arguable rights at all. The stronger and more persuasive conclusion is that Daybreak tolerated emulator culture for many years, allowed the EQEmu community to build norms and expectations around that tolerance, then abruptly asserted its rights in a harsh and selective way once one free, custom, fan-run server became too popular to ignore.

Put plainly, this does not look like principled consistency. It looks like a rights-holder waking up only when a fan project becomes too successful, too custom, and too compelling as an alternative.

Please correct me if I got anything wrong here.

[Beelzy]

A few additional facts are worth keeping in mind here.

THJ was not simply “live EverQuest for free.” It was a heavily customised project with multiclassing, solo / duo progression, account-bound systems, expanded AA options, major quality-of-life changes, tiered gearing, and other structural differences that made it a very different gameplay experience from official EverQuest. More broadly, that was true of the EQEmu scene in general as well: all of these servers were free to play, and all of them were custom in one sense or another, even if some were far more heavily customised than others. So framing THJ as though it were just a direct one-to-one clone siphoning players from a like-for-like product is highly misleading. What attracted players was precisely that it offered something official EQ had not offered.

The scale also matters. THJ reportedly had around 2,000 users already by December 2024 and later rose to more than 30,000 users. By EQEmu standards, that is enormous. At that point, “too popular” is not an exaggeration at all. It becomes the most obvious practical explanation for why Daybreak suddenly acted. If THJ had remained just another niche emulator server with a few hundred drifting players, it is very difficult to believe the same legal reaction would have followed.

There is also a major difference between saying THJ pulled some players away and saying THJ is the reason EverQuest underperformed. Those are not the same claim. EverQuest’s broader decline, TLP fatigue, repeated player drop-off patterns, and lack of meaningful reinvention all appear to have predated THJ. So blaming THJ as though it caused the broader weakness of official EverQuest looks extremely convenient. THJ may well have had some impact, but that is very different from making it the central explanation for Daybreak’s own long-term decline.

The timeline matters just as much. The best-known cease-and-desist example people can point to is Winter’s Roar, roughly 20 years ago. Then Project 1999 launched in 2008 and only reached a formal agreement with SOE / Daybreak in 2015. That agreement alone proves they knew perfectly well the wider emulator world existed. Yet despite that knowledge, the broader EQEmu ecosystem was still left alone for more than 10 further years. And again, this was not a scene of isolated oddities. These were free-to-play fan servers across the board, and all of them were custom in one way or another. If Daybreak truly wanted to enforce its copyright consistently, it should have acted much sooner across that wider scene instead of effectively ignoring it for more than a decade and then suddenly reacting only when one server became too successful.

That is where the wider pattern becomes hard to ignore. THJ does not appear to have been treated differently because it crossed some bright line no emulator had crossed before. It appears to have been treated differently because it became too large, too visible, and too compelling as an alternative. That is why this looks far less like principled consistency and far more like selective enforcement.

The later restrictions placed on Quarm point in the same direction. They suggest a broader shift toward tighter control over emulator servers that become too large, too custom, or too culturally significant. In other words, the concern no longer appears to be emulation in the abstract, but fan-run alternatives becoming attractive enough to expose the weakness of Daybreak’s own direction.

And that is also why the court’s framing deserves skepticism. The court appears to have accepted Daybreak’s highly one-sided and villainising portrayal of THJ, even though there are strong reasons to question whether THJ was truly the cause of trends that seem to have been in motion for years already. That is what makes the whole thing feel so deeply unfair: a large company painting one fan-run server as the villain, while ignoring the fact that the broader emulator community had spent two full decades helping keep EverQuest culturally alive, relevant, discussed, and creatively evolving.

In that sense, the EQEmu community did not damage the EverQuest brand. It helped carry it for years. And THJ now seems to have been punished not for doing something uniquely wrong, but for becoming too successful within a scene that had long been tolerated.