View Full Version : C++
Mortamer
04-16-2003, 04:50 PM
Hi everyone, I'm starting this book Teach Yourself C++ in 21 days because I really thought it'd be awesome to code. However I'm only on day 3 and while I normally get computer concepts very quickly I seem to be struggling with C++. I am not doing that bad, but I'd say its bad enough for only being on day 3. I was wondering if all you coders got C++ really fast and was it easy for you? Whenever I think of an alternative like VB, I loose interest in programming since I just dont imagine many good/usefull projects being done in VB. So basically what I am asking is, should I stick with C++ and I'll probably be fine and understand it? If this was not worded very great, I have not had much sleep and we have relatives over :wink: .
Trumpcard
04-16-2003, 07:00 PM
C series languages in general are harder to learn for people with no background in programming (when i went to college you would learn Pascal first, then C, then C++), but overall they are not that difficult, it just requires time to learn.
VB is a good language for simple applications like frontend tools, but not really designed for more indepth projects, but it's perfect for quick and dirty projects.
I'd say stick to C++, it's more effort, you are NOT going to get a good grasp of it in 3 days, but it'll come in time. There have been a few developers that picked up C++ programming specificlly because of this project, so just know it's been done before.
Mortamer
04-17-2003, 03:13 AM
Ok, great. Just making sure. I think I'm just so used to getting everything in a couple of minutes. I don't have any other programming experience but I thought C++ would be best. Would you recommend learning C before C++ (I don't think I would like to learn Pascal, you never read about a good project being done in it that I know of)? I was thinking I might learn C first but I had the C++ book handy and it said not to learn C because you would have to unlearn some of the C code to get a good grasp of C++. Also, I heard EQEmu is mostly C so I was wondering, if I know C++ would I still be able to understand EQEmu source and maybe addon to it? The book says if you know C++, you'll have a good understanding of C so I hope that's what it means.
Edgar1898
04-17-2003, 03:14 AM
(I don't think I would like to learn Pascal, you never read about a good project being done in it that I know of)?
Heh, Everquest was written in pascal :/
Mortamer
04-17-2003, 04:09 AM
Really? Lol I thought it was written in C++. Someone said Pascal was a really old language and it was obselete, guess not though :P .
Edgar1898
04-17-2003, 04:28 AM
hehe I thought it was too until recently. I was disassembling the client to look at it a little closer and some of the procedures I noticed were pascal, so I asked Hogie (used to be a GM on live way back when) and he confirmed it was written in pascal.
Mortamer
04-17-2003, 05:10 AM
So, in your opinion Edgar/Trumpcard, should I just learn C++ first? And if I did would I be able to understand and modify the EQEmu source?
Trumpcard
04-17-2003, 06:13 AM
Yea, just learn C++. Learn it and you can backward apply it to C, C++ is a superset of C, so if you learn C++, you'll understand C with ease..
Pascal was originally created as a learning language to learn functional languages like C, but grew in popularity in the 80's and early 90's. I remember programming in Borland Turbo Pascal...lol... I had no idea EQ was done in Pascal though, I find it hard to believe the current client is pascal though, does pascal even have directX hooks?? Alot of the code could have been directly ported from pascal into c/c++, but I dont see how the whole thing could.
Edgar1898
04-17-2003, 06:24 AM
Yah Pascal sucks, but Hogie said the client was written using it (a few days ago):
[13:29] <LethalEncounter> hey Hogie, was eqgame.exe written in pascal?
[13:30] <Hogie> yes
[13:30] <LethalEncounter> why not c? :/
[13:30] <khuong> pascal > *
[13:30] <LethalEncounter> bullcrap
[13:30] <LethalEncounter> pascal blows
[13:30] <LethalEncounter> all
[13:30] <khuong> LOL
[13:30] <khuong> even though
[13:30] <khuong> it made the most sucessful mmorpg? :P
Mortamer
04-17-2003, 06:28 AM
Ok, thanks for all the replies! I will learn C++ then :) .
BLOOD_kane
04-17-2003, 11:55 AM
no Cobol is obsolete..i got 2 books on cobol lol very old i dont see anything used by it now...
Trumpcard
04-17-2003, 01:02 PM
Cobol is nowhere being obsolete...
90% of the worlds finances are still being handled by mainframe cobol code...
No ones going to pay to upgrade information superwarehouses that literally have billions invested in development and upgrades over the years when they're working perfectly fine the way they are, so cobol is going to be sticking around for a while to come..
Its not as prevalent as it was 20 years ago, but it's still very much alive.
Hardy
04-17-2003, 05:27 PM
Damn, 21 days?? And I am going to college for it and it will take 4 years to get my diploma. I guess it will be worth it, just hard to believe you can teach yourself in 21 days, or go to school to get the diploma and it takes 2 - 4 years. Almost done with my 1st year and have done NO programming at all, lol, just math, math, office XP and Windows XP classes. Maybe I should do full time, hmmmm :P
Bardboy
04-18-2003, 02:40 AM
Learning Programming languages is like learning any other language; you have to learn the alphabet, then learn how to string letters together to make words, then learn the syntax for making complete sentences, then paragraphs, etc...
I'm finishing up my first year in college this semester and have taken C++ and C classes. I'm just starting to see how complex and difficult to master programming can be. and how much further I need to go in order to become a good programmer.
BLOOD_kane
04-18-2003, 02:50 AM
well Trump thats just what I see from my experience with cobol...its old and outdated. But other than that area where do you see cobol being used NOW not somthing that has BEEN in use.
Trumpcard
04-18-2003, 07:21 AM
I wont deny that its a junky language, it was made to be a high level language, closer to english, but point was it can't really be considered obsolete as cobol programmers are still in demand..
Pascal/ADA on the other hand, though I hear a few places are still using ADA...
hehe search on google for 'cobol' and Dijkstra....
Actually, Pascal is a pretty cool language these days. When I started learning to program we learnt FORTRAN and USCD Pascal. Pascal at that time had no standard input or standard output, you had to do all IO on Punched cards, paper tape and mag tape. This was quite hard to work with.
You'd feed the macchine a stqack of cards, and eventually pick up a paper tape from Ops. You'd take this and feed it through a Teletype Terminal which would print it in 7 bit ascii on 128 column fan fold paper.
In the '80's Borland relaesed Turbo Pascal, which could be used for real programms. Eventually Borland Pascal forked into 2 trees, Borland Pascal and Object Pascal. Object Pascal became Delphi.
Interestingly, the Borland C++ compiler is written in Borland Pascal, and it's the fastet C++ compiler I've seen.
Thus endeth the lesson for today.
Oh, I forgot to mention, that book is crap. It is more a book on 'C with classes' . I'd strongly suggest you buy a book by Kelly and Pohl. Pohl in the madman who wrote the C Standard Library, and was instrumental in writing the specs for the STL.
Seiously, that book you've got will fill your mind with stuff you'll have to unlearn if you want to do any serious coding.
Q-Dog
04-18-2003, 10:10 AM
Mortamer..
I read Teach yourself C++ in 21 days, and one of the chapters has some bugs in it.. but that isn't important. What is important is that the book is not for beginners, and that is probably why you aren't getting a good grasp. I Would like to suggest "Beginning C++" (for pure console) or "Beginning VC++ 6" (console mostly, but dives into mfc near the end) by Ivor Horton. It is the most structured and best laid out book I have ever read on programming, It explains everything to you in great detail and even explains to you where and why you would use different things that you otherwise wouldn't know.
Hope that helps you.
P.S. I thought EQ was coded in QBasic ;).
Mortamer
04-19-2003, 03:45 AM
Ok, I'll look for Beginning C++. However I can't get it right away, so should I continue with reading Teach Yourself C++ in 21 days? Or would it be bad to read it, if I would just have to unlearn it anyway?
a_Guest03
04-19-2003, 03:48 AM
I read the 21 days one, then took a class on it later. Do the exercises - you will probably be fine. I had to stop reading it because of time constraints.
Mortamer
04-19-2003, 04:07 AM
Ok, will do.
Even if you turn to another book, keep reading the 'in 21 days' one, it'll still teach you alot, if you grasp that, the beginning c++ books will teach you the more basic commands, let's just say you'll learn it backwards but still learn it.
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