Proposed new kick equation

[a_Guest03]

I've heard that the kick code allows a level 7 to kick for 35, but that EQLive has kicks that strong only on the strongest warriors.

Here is a proposed change to the equation... I tried to get the original coder's objective, but I can't mentally do the equation repeatedly without getting a headache.

EDIT: changed equation to adjust to .15 from .19 and .16. Also added shoe damage.
EDIT: adjusted this formula to the correct updated version, removed shoe damage because it doesn't exist :P

MaxKickdamage = 3 + .15*SQUAREROOT(Kickskill*Strength)

This may or may not be good. At first, skill increases faster than str, but at later levels, they probably increase at about the same rate. Anyway, tell me what you think.

[a_Guest03]

I've run this equation against a good deal of data. I think it's very satisfactory.

[Trumpcard]

Good deal ! I'll try to throw it in tonight, I trust your numbers...

I still need to curb skill increases down, they are still occuring WAY to much..

What the hell is boot damage?? LOL.. Are they boot items with damage #'s?

[DeletedUser]

I hate to say, but the kick actually evened out pvp because they could only slash in the 20's and 30's but kick in the 90s :)

[Trumpcard]

lol....

[a_Guest03]

Boot damage is the damage value for the foot armor.

[Graypaint]

Would that be equal to AC?

[a_Guest03]

Okay, so there's no such thing as boot damage :P Sue me! I'm a big newb

Okay, more votes necessary: Boots and damage. Here are the following equations I think might be the answer

Equation option 1: Bootdamage + 3 + SQROOT(KICKSKILL*STR) * .15

Equation option 2: 3 + SQROOT(KICKSKILL*STR*CUBEROOT(1+Bootdamage)) * .15

Here are some sample outputs, because twinking could be a pain in the butt.

Assume STR is 109, Kickskill is 25; bootdamage starts at 2, increments by 2. Equation is option 1:
2: 12.83
4: 14.83
6: 16.83
8: 18.83
10: 20.83
You get the idea.

Assume same variables and increments. Equation is option 2:
2: 12.404
4: 13.239
6: 13.83
8: 14.293
10: 14.677


Without adjustment for boot damage, with the same equation, it would be this: 10.83

Here are some extreme examples of the equation:

Kick skill 1, strength 85, bootdamage starting at 2, incrementing by 2, equation option 1:
2: 6.3829
4: 8.3829
6: 10.3829
8: 12.3829
10: 14.3829

Same variables, option 2:
2: 4.6608
4: 4.8084
6: 4.9127
8: 4.9945
10: 5.1206

Without boot damage, original damage would be 4.3829.

Another example:
Strength 290, kickskill 210, boot damage starting at 2, option 1:
2: 42.017
4: 44.017
6: 46.017
8: 48017
10: 50.017

Same stats, boot damage starting at 2, option 2:
2: 47.455
4: 51.406
6: 54.198
8: 56.388
10: 59.762

Damage without boot damage applied would be 40.017. Consider that the stats are HUGE without the boot damage.

With this last set of stats, the direction of balance even changes again, with boots of 28 damage.

Option 1:
68.017

Option 2:
67.883

The concern is that good boots there make you a serious badass a little too early, and doesn't balance out in the end either. Please consider the 2 equations. With this data set, I'd be willing to accept option 2.

[a_Guest03]

Another concern: does kickskill start at 0? If so, max kick damage would be just 3 at level 0 skill, no matter how powerful the boot under equation 2.

I like the second one anyway.

Gray, bootdamage = damage rating of shoe, not equal to AC.

[killspree]

Boots don't have a damage rating, so all kicks would do the same damage.

[a_Guest03]

I could've sworn some had damage ratings :P If that's correct, then just eliminate boot damage... Leave it with 3+SQROOT(SKILL*STR)*.15

Maybe I just got confused about glove damage and kick damage. I guess Magic boots are what I'm thinking of, but they don't have damage bonuses.

I guess you guys can all tell I'm a big newb.

[a_Guest03]

Think we could use this same code for melee damage max, if we removed the 3+ from the beginning, and changed the constants, and added weapondamage to the equation?

[a_Guest03]

The equation for melee damage looks promising as the following:

weapondamage * SQROOT(SKILL*STR) * .06

I'll test out data with that type of equation.

[killspree]

Tested the kick equation some this morning, works really well...excellent job GN. :)

[a_Guest03]

That piece of crap actually works?? I was about to rewrite the whole thing using the other melee equation :mrgreen: I already stalled Trump from putting it in. Alright, I can use that equation for maxdamage if people like it. I think mindamage with kick is 1, right? At all levels?

That would make DB = 1
And DI = (maxdamage - DI) / 20

That way we can plug kicks into the melee formula.

[a_Guest03]

Can someone get me logs of a fight with an uber mob (need kick and bash damage and slam damage) so that I can learn max/min damage?

I could also use STR/kick skill/offense/level for any of these guys that are kicking, if that is available.

[a_Guest03]

New theory:

Hypothesis 1: A foot is a weapon with a certain damage/delay and damage bonus.

Hypothesis 2: Damage bonus of the basic kick is 1 for all levels (okay, it's theory here), but it should follow the same rule as an offhand weapon, 1 DB.

Hypothesis 3:The weapondamage is a constant (7 or 6 or whatever).

So, assuming the previous points are true, we plug in the foot into the maxdamage equation:

Initial belief -
DB[kick] = 1
weapondamage[kick] = 7
maxdamage = ((Strength + Skill + level)/100 * weapondamage) + DB
maxdamage[kick] = ((Strength + skill + level)/100 * 7 + 1

I chose several weapondamages to plug in, and 7 struck my fancy.

A level 1 gnome (80str?), with 1 skill can kick for 6.74 (or 6)
A level 1 ogre (160str?), with 1 skill can kick for 12.34 (or 12)

A level 20 gnome, 100str, with 105 skill can kick for 16.75 (or 16)
A level 20 ogre, 180str, with 105 skill can kick for 22.35 (or 22)

A level 65 gnome, 180str, with 252 skill can kick for 35.79 (or 35)
A level 65 ogre, 255str, with 252 skill can kick for 41.04 (or 41)

Updated belief -

AK sent me some log file that had kick damage minimum 47 (it says 1, but that's a mistake - trust me) at level (assuming) 55+ I'm positive that's flying kick. That's great! So, using my calculations - damage bonus is somewhere near 46 or 47. I plugged in separate values to get about what I thought flying kick weapon damage would be. I'm guessing it's 20 or 21. Max damage for 20 is 162. Max damage for 21 is 168. So I'm guessing it's weapondamage 20, weapondamagebonus of 46, basic equation:

DB[flyingkick] = 47
weapondamage[flyingkick] = 20

maxdamage[flyingkick] = (STR + flyingkickskill + level)/100*20 +1 +46

You can simplify it to:
maxdamage[flyingkick] = (STR + flyingkickskill + level)/5 + 47

but I wanted everyone to see that the equation is derived from the basic melee equation, and thus can just have values plugged into melee code.

How does this theory sound?

[AK1121]

Actual data parsed from the logs of a lvl 59 monk :
kick damage:
total damage = 141145
hits count = 1971
average = 71.61
min damage = 1
max damage = 166

punch damage:
total = 1718047
hits = 42929
average = 40.02
min = 1
max = 177


notice that this is a monk's damage..

i think a close formula would be :
maxdamage = ((Strength + level + skill) / 10 * 7) + (level / 10)(level/10) + ( rand()%level )
it is an estimate based on the values.

Full log parsing will be up shortly on
http://ak1121.no-ip.info/logs.zip

-- editted --

wrong URL :oops:
i try to keep it up as long as i can, add a mirror if u can

[AK1121]

maxdamage =((strength + skill + level)/100 * weapondamage) + (offense * 9 / 21) + damagebonus[level];

formula a_guest came up with and I edited to make more accurate

u truely are a genious GN =)

(if u calculate for the stats we had earlier, u get 167 as the max)

http://ak1121.no-ip.info/damagesim.exe
http://ak1121.no-ip.info/damage.cpp

Gonna implement it into the code as soon as it is finalized... Any logs we get from any level will be muuch appreciated

[a_Guest03]

We're one in the same. Thanks for the input - we'll test that out. Your damage bonus - which equation did you use? 1h weapon bonus?

[killspree]

The kick equation works fine, but the melee equation above my post is horribly off. :p

[AK1121]

no, its a damage bonus table that i invented =P if i could get more logs of different levels, both high and low, i could make it more accurate.

The current table is in the source of my damagesim =)

[AK1121]

maxdamage = ((Strength + level + skill) / 10 * 7) + (level / 10)(level/10) + ( rand()%level ) is disgustingly off, killspree ;) i dunno what i was thinking :P

anywayz the second one isnt off, it worked for lvl 59, and 52, with a relative error of 1% around

i need lower level data thou =)

[killspree]

Important to note, those kick numbers from the 59 monk are probably flying kick - can't get kick and flying kick confused, but it looks like from the max that it is indeed flying kick.

[AK1121]

ummmmm hmmmmmm =)
says kick... but a monk's kick ownz0r over warrior kick

thats y we need raw data =)

[a_Guest03]

No monk at 65 still uses "kick", "round kick", "eagle strike", etc. They use flying kick. Much of the warrior kick I'm seeing is along the lines of 8, 15, etc.

[killspree]

Monk "kick" isn't actually that much better than warrior "kick" if I remember from my days of leveling a monk - the exact reason most use flying kick instead. ;)

The reason it says kick in the log is because I guess the EQ devs weren't THAT creative, and left the message the same for flying kick as it is for normal kick. :p

[AK1121]

lol =)
look on the bright side, now we have a new flying kick equation that works ;)

a call to all warriors out there.. SEND US UR LOGS =) whatever level they might be

[a_Guest03]

bump

[Trumpcard]

Ok Guest, spell it out for me, this thread is confusing, and I'm not sure what you're wanting to use as the defacto equation...