Rudeness

[DeletedUser]

From: FightersChoice
To: Hogie
Posted: 06-22-2003 03:36 PM
Subject: .....
For Some reason I hate you, CAN YOU ***ING BLAME ME IF I HAVE QUESTIONS?!!!?! You big ass shitter think you are the best so u lock all of my threads i want u to die, Oh and I have have 9 comps with 7 s/ns on each so it will take to a while to ban all of them as i know you will because you are that kind of cunt

Now, this user came from Aol proxies EVERY time... Here are some examples of his addresses:

205.188.208.169
152.163.252.226
205.188.209.82
205.188.208.172
205.188.208.102

How serious should I take an AOL luser? I mean, he can't even use a real internet provider, and he wants to start up his own server? His IQ isnt as high as Forrest Gumps... cause he's not running a Mac...

[daeken_bb]

all i can say is "HAHAHAHAHAHA"

[DeletedUser]

Oh, and I forgot, he posted all support questions in the WRONG AREA. Where it is clearly marked as "DO NOT POST SUPPORT QUESTIONS!" as a sticky at the top of the forum!

Things as simple as installing the system, and would ask again even after the readme was pointed out, and he would also post 3 - 4 times in 10 minutes because nobody would answer him.

[Talon0202]

Hey boss....was just wondering, is there any kinda rough eta on patcher coming back up? If there isn't one or you do not want to answer or i shouldnt have asked here....feel free to delete this message and sorry for bothering you. If not....well, an eta would rock :D Thanks

[themanslayer]

hey hogie, you should find the guy and jay and silent bob him hahahaha... lemme know ill help :twisted:

[Aspirax]

I think it's unprofessional to repost something like that on the front page. It makes you look like you have a 'holier-than-thou' attitude.

It's all about profesionalism, and that's how people perceive your project.

[hogosha]

I agree with him being a moron about using AOL as a service provider. Next, what a moron for all the 7th grade words. I talked like that back in uh...... yeah 6th or 7th grade. Big Shitter? I got bigger crap on deck that could choke a donkey. lol

[Aspirax]

"I got bigger crap on deck that could choke a donkey. lol"

Heh, so you've upgraded to a 9th grade level?

[DeletedUser]

Aspirax: If you dont like it, you can leave. Im tired of people like him sending me private messages like that. Would you rather me just drop the project? And you guys wonder why the devs dont go out of their way to help people with basic questions when they wont even help themselves.

[Aspirax]

Holy crap. "If you don't like it you can just leave."

My God. How old are you? Start acting like a project lead and not a snotty teen-ager.

The best rule about private messages:
If you don't like them ignore them.

It goes hand in hand with "you can just leave".

When you are a public figure, heading a project like this you can expect annoying people. Deal with them. :)

[Elrach]

Holy crap. "If you don't like it you can just leave."

My God. How old are you? Start acting like a project lead and not a snotty teen-ager.

The best rule about private messages:
If you don't like them ignore them.

It goes hand in hand with "you can just leave".

When you are a public figure, heading a project like this you can expect annoying people. Deal with them. :)

I have to side with Aspirax here. Putting up a post like this in a public forum for the sole purpose of trying to humiliate someone, no matter how much he deserves it, appears childish at the best.

Like in everything else, there are always bad apples to deal with. Can't please everyone. That's what a free world is all about.

And don't start playing that "I'll drop the project if I'm not happy card" all the time. Grow up man, show you're a better person and just let it slip by quietly.

[Trumpcard]

I think it's unprofessional to repost something like that on the front page. It makes you look like you have a 'holier-than-thou' attitude.


Asp: This isn't a professional project. Why should it be treated as one? This is a freely available project that the devs, and a host of other people donate their time, and some like Hogie, donate ALOT of money too. If you were paying for it, you would have some right to complain as to the content of what goes into the forums by the admins. You've been around for awhile, but what makes you think we should have to just take anything thats thrown at us?

As it stands, I think it's Hogie's personal right to repost hate mail sent to him. Ton's of other sites projects do it, some even have special forums devoted just to hate mail. We are supposed to just endure personal attacks, hate mail, name calling, just because we decided we want to help work on this project? Thats horses**t..

You would be amazed at the number of hateful PM's I have, and IM's because I decided to post that address, from people who EXPECT us to jump at their beck and call. Frankly, I'm sick of it too....

One guy posted hate mail on the forums because I didnt drop Valentines day dinner with my fiance and help him set up a server when he wouldnt read instruction 1.

We're aholes for pointing out to everyone that we won't tolerate that kind of childishness ?

As far as Hogies comment about giving up on the project, go ahead and criticize the one person who bled for this project and spent more time than anyone else holding it together. You guys have gotten a successful EQ emulator out of this and have not had to pay one single dime, and youre mad because he just annoyed by some hate mail and posted it ??

[Edgar1898]

Amen Brother TC :)

[Aspirax]

I've run and currently run free services for years. Going on 9 or 10.

I always treat people with respect and profesionalism. Sure, I'm not saying there aren't some 13 year old punks who get under my skin. But I've learned over the years that there is one thing that gets under people's skin more than anything.

When someone is mad at you, and sends/posts something rude, obnoxious, replying in a polite, professional manner pisses them off. They want to egg you on. They want you to get bent out of shape. Even when it does, never let it show. *That* is the best way to fight back.

I'll expect that you guys might figure this out one day.

However, I don't think because you work on this project, throw money and time at it, gives you a green light to be a dick to people.

Going around threatening to close the project, or saying "I've put money into this" is a valid response. No one is making you. You chose to do it. Your decision. Not mine. If you choose to spend your money on something else, that's (again) your decision.

However, I am a proponent of being somewhat polite even under attack. I don't think that asking a project lead to not run around acting like a spoiled a brat is a big deal.

I love coming to the page and checking for updates. I do it all the time, and I don't even play EQ, I'm interested in the project and advancements. However, when I log on and I see posts like today's (and I've seen many) I get a sour taste in my mouth and think, "Who are these people, that they are so rightous?"

[Trumpcard]

However, I don't think because you work on this project, throw money and time at it, gives you a green light to be a dick to people.

But apparently, by your line of reasoning, registering for a free account and getting access to post on these forums gives them the right to be dicks to us?


Maybe Hogie should draft up an automated reponse.

'Thank you for your insults and criticism. I will share your humilation of my mother with the rest of the team, and we look forward to whatever future deflamations of our characters that you care to share.'


This is real life brother.. Sometimes we're nice people, sometimes we're not, to expect someone to be nice and polite and to turn the other cheek ALL the time is probably an unrealistic expectation.



You have your right to your opinion, and I respect that, but I don't agree at all

However, I am a proponent of being somewhat polite even under attack. I don't think that asking a project lead to not run around acting like a spoiled a brat is a big deal.

For someone that just commented on always being professional and polite when you are insulted, that seems to be a bit of an acinine remark don't you think? You say that one should always be polite, then call him a spoiled brat all in the same line. Thats is perhaps the FASTEST case of doublespeak I've ever seen.

[a_Guest03]

They can do whatever they like. Like he said, if you don't like it, you're free to leave.

I've seen a LOT of bulldookie get thrown around for inane problems, and it happens even to me. I don't claim to have any power, and rightly so, but I donate time and money to the project. I often go out of my way to resolve every problem I can in the support forums, and it wears on me. I'm sure it wears on the devs more, because there's even more that they can solve that they've solved 1000 times, just to have some guy refuse to read the canned solution.

If you won't read the canned solution, despite it being tried and true, then you disrespect the person suggesting it. And if you disrespect them for helping you, you deserve their disrespect in return.

If the devs were paid for their time, then there would be some reason for them to save face, cover it up, and forgive the customer. But there is no customer. The user is not always right. If they want to return ill will, let them do so without censure.

[Aspirax]

No it doesn't. I didn't say that. Do *not* put words in my "mouth".

I'm telling you that an "eye for an eye" is immature. You need to act bigger than that. If you can.

[Aspirax]

And your post, is exactly why this project is viewed as run by a bunch of "teenagers" from the outside world.

Now, go look at other free, large projects.
phpBB, the forums you use, go read their support.

You won't see anyone being condescending there.
I can list more, if you wish. Or you can continue to present yourselves to the world as "childish, righteous, rude," etc, etc.

[Elrach]

As far as Hogies comment about giving up on the project, go ahead and criticize the one person who bled for this project and spent more time than anyone else holding it together. You guys have gotten a successful EQ emulator out of this and have not had to pay one single dime, and youre mad because he just annoyed by some hate mail and posted it ??

EQEmu is a great project, and for that I am grateful to everyone who participates. I'm not "mad" at Hogie, I'm simply dissappointed. No, EQEmu isn't a professional project. But nonetheless, when you have the leaders acting up, it makes it that much more difficult to take it seriously.

This is an opinion, not an attack. I just hope Hogie will think about this is an objective light.

Ok, now back to pretending to work so I can find out more about zoning and that login bug...

[a_Guest03]

Stop retorting if you're bigger than them. I swear, you're being a hypocrite. "If you can." is just another retort. For someone who's "bigger than that", you sure throw a lot of punches.

[Aspirax]

Obviously, you aren't reading for content. I don't throw any punches.

[a_Guest03]

Thanks for the insult. That's all I needed to prove my point. I know I'm calling you a hypocrite and egging you on, and I know you're calling the devs childish for that, but you claimed to be bigger than that.

[Aspirax]

What you are doing now, is antagonizing me.

I'm not insulting you. Quit trying to play things up.
"Read for content" is just that. I make some valid points, if you read my posts for what they are you will see them.

You are not. No insult, none intended.
If I wanted to insult you, I would. I have no desire to insult someone I don't even know.

That's just silly.

[Muuss]

you say "Seriously" ?

EQ = game
EqEmu = hobby
Devs = people having fun with their hobbies
insults/rants/flaming = devs not having fun anymore
not having fun anymore = no more EqEmu.

As long as this project remains free, leaders, managers and devs must be supported by their community, not ranted or insulted, if they are, WHATEVER is their reaction as long as it stays rationnal, it MUST receive the full support of the community. If you don't support them, don't donate, just whine and rant, you have nothing to do here.

I totally support Hogie, Trump, A_guest and everybody that will follow that path, there's no place for the jerks and peeps who don't see farther than their nose.

[Aspirax]

"I totally support Hogie, Trump, A_guest and everybody that will follow that path, there's no place for the jerks and peeps who don't see farther than their nose."

Don'r you understand that the devs are acting exactly like you describe?

Or is the "dish it out, but cannot take it" attitude supported by the community as well?

[Muuss]

I read the content of your messages and totally understand it (even if its not my native language).

Life isnt as easy as saying all the time, 'sorry i misunderstood that insult, can you detail it more please, i would like to know why you're complaining of all those free services i offer you'.

If a guy who represents a wide part of the project is insulted and answers the same way, i agree, yes, even more if i know that he prolly answered correctly the 499 first times, which is certainly what happened.

[Aspirax]

Go ahead and resturn the insult! Don't post it all publicly. That's just not cool. That's playing dirty to intentionally get the support of the community in an "I'm right" ego trip.

[Muuss]

well, if you get to many insulting pm, you perhaps need to know if you have the support of the community. Their might be a point where some kind of saturation could happen, and then, you just explose, boooom (i know that hehe).
but you know, i seriously think that some people need to see some public executions to understand the rules... Not everybody, like you or 99% of the readers of that forum, can evaluate their words before they write them and understand what they read... :oops:

[noindy]

ok, everything about EQEmu is great, the support is great, the ideas are great, everything. so y do people insist on finding something wrong? it has been my experience that people just have to have SOMETHING to complain about at any one time, and yes, i am complaining right now, im a person afterall. but leave the damned Devs alone. when you start donating 100 bux a week to THEIR project then YOU can have your say, otherwise piss off. if they want to be childish then dammit they can be. i have seen nothing but astute, polite behavior from any of them for any reason, even with the stupid mongrels who dont read the README before asking how to run the program, or with the people who got outta line first. if i was putting my money into something like this, and was getting CONSTANTLY flamed for running it like I want to, id react the same way, sure you can say "thanks for the insult have a nice day" the first 10 times, and "you people are getting annoying but its ok" till the 1000th time, but at 1001, id be pretty sick of hatemail for something GREAT that i made, and id start responding with fuck you very much, have a shitty day. id say the devs do pretty good restraining considering the rest of you started retorting after what, one little "yo mamma..." insult?

[Aspirax]

"but leave the damned Devs alone. when you start donating 100 bux a week to THEIR project then YOU can have your say, otherwise piss off"

I guess you are not familiar with the constitution of the United States. Specfically Amendment #1.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html#amendmenti

I don't have to pay 100 "bux" a week to their project to discuss their behavoir.

The government allows me to do it for free.

Furthermore, a project without criticism is a project going no where.
Critisism can be constructive, and beneficial. However, here, it seems that it is is just not tolerated.

[a_Guest03]

Yeah, Aspirax :) Donate $20/mo. and I'm sure Hogie will see things closer to your perspective. But when 100 children spoil the fun of the 12 adults, and piss one off badly, then he's going to pop. Hogie has RL issues to deal with, and money is one of them. He loves the project, but doing something for free when you have RL issues can get on your nerves. If he were more comfortable, I'm sure he'd be more jolly. Cut him some slack. He doesn't rampage often enough for it to be a problem. Khuong's the loose cannon! I seen you, Khuong! I seen it!

[Acolyte]

How about you all just chill out and stop crying. As has been said before, this is a free service. If you don't like the way it's going get off your ass and do something to make it better and stop bitching. Hogie and Trump and all the devs out there do an insane job as it is doing all they do with jobs, etc.

If you disagree with what Hogie did, keep it to yourself.

[Aspirax]

"If you don't like the way it's going get off your ass and do something to make it better and stop bitching."

"If you disagree with what Hogie did, keep it to yourself."

Which is it? Should I discuss potential problems to make the project present itself more maturely or should I keep it to myself?

[Edgar1898]

Don'r you understand that the devs are acting exactly like you describe?


Yes thanks for generalism, I didnt know that I was acting like that. Thanks for the pointer :)

[Acolyte]

"If you don't like the way it's going get off your ass and do something to make it better and stop bitching."

"If you disagree with what Hogie did, keep it to yourself."

Which is it? Should I discuss potential problems to make the project present itself more maturely or should I keep it to myself?

In this case yes, you can continue screaming at a brick wall, or shut up about it. You aren't doing any good, and being asinine about it at that. If you want to be mature about it send him an email, and try not to be nasty there.

[Aspirax]

Okay, okay, you got me there.
I don't know each of the devs, or how they act on the forums.

My apologies. This was just a specific case with this posting thread.

[Aspirax]

"In this case yes, you can continue screaming at a brick wall, or shut up about it. You aren't doing any good, and being asinine about it at that. If you want to be mature about it send him an email, and try not to be nasty there."

I'm not being nasty. I said, in a very reasonably polite post that I perceive it to be unprofessional to post what was posted.

It was many forum members that got nasty with me, telling me to help make things better, but shut up at the same time.

[Acolyte]

Then take the advice you are given and you won't have a problem. The professional way of doing these things isn't making a scene on a public board, but in fact, try to address the issue privately, outside of "public scrutiny."

[a_Guest03]

To be honest, I don't understand why you would want the project to be more "mature". I like it laid-back. I like it rough. If Hogie were more professional, he'd censure everyone for posting in the wrong forums, and suggest they not do that anymore, yadda yadda yadda. He lets a lot slide, and I think that's a good thing.

He really doesn't rampage enough for it to be a problem, and it's always with people who refuse to acknowledge that they should reevaluate their course of action.

[Acolyte]

If Hogie were more professional, he'd censure everyone for posting in the wrong forums...

That's now my job, and it's going to start happening more. I've watched these boards go way out of hand and they need some moderation.

[Aspirax]

Then take the advice you are given and you won't have a problem. The professional way of doing these things isn't making a scene on a public board, but in fact, try to address the issue privately, outside of "public scrutiny."

That's your idea of professionalism? Not mine.

-=-=-=

To be honest, I don't understand why you would want the project to be more "mature". I like it laid-back. I like it rough. If Hogie were more professional, he'd censure everyone for posting in the wrong forums, and suggest they not do that anymore, yadda yadda yadda. He lets a lot slide, and I think that's a good thing.

He really doesn't rampage enough for it to be a problem, and it's always with people who refuse to acknowledge that they should reevaluate their course of action.

I never said that being professional also equates to being insane about the rules.

Careful with the word you choose to put into my mouth.

[Acolyte]

That's your idea of professionalism? Not mine.

YOU came here yelling and bitching about how you thought something someone did was innapropriate. If you're going to complain now about how people are treating you, you should first realize why. I'll let you figure that one out yourself, though.

[Aspirax]

YOU came here yelling and bitching about how you thought something someone did was innapropriate. I did no yelling and bitching.
I also didn't say it was innapropriate.

I'm going to bow out of this discussion and "agree to disagree" at this stage, because it seems apparent that we are no longer discussing the same topic.

[a_Guest03]

Why do you keep claiming I'm putting words in your mouth? You never define a single word you use, but when we use it incorrectly, we're "putting words in your mouth"?? Define everything, then, so that I can debate on an open playing field.

[Acolyte]

That's probably a good idea, but really, keep this stuff out of the public forums, it just makes people mad, when your opinions about what Hogie did should have really been directed towards him, not the entire eqemu community.

:D It's cool.

[DeletedUser]

Actually, this is MY server. You are using MY bandwidth to post here. You have no rights. NONE what so ever. You are now in the small country called Hogieland. You can forget your stupid little US laws here. The Internet isn't just in America. No wonder the world hates US Citizens...

[gakso]

I have a few things to say to all them people who r pissed off and sending insulting messages: u r morons. with out these people their would not be a Eqemu, with out these people u would not be playing on an actual working everquest emulator you would probably either be playing on Eqlive or trying to get Hackersquest to work. i believe that the Devs have every right to close Eqemu if some one is "leaching" off of it. You people shouldn’t be pissed of you should be happy that at least u have had the opportunity to play on Eqemu and not send the Devs insulting messages.

P.S this entire message was directed to the people who r insulting the Devs.

[Edgar1898]

LethalEncounter backs away from the thread.

Its alright, its alright no harm done. Nothing to see here folks.....


Hey Hogie is Hogieland a new attraction at Six Flags? :P I havent been to Arlington in a while :/

[Zern]

Wow, Acolyte remove your lips from Hogie's ass and stop trying to be the hero of the day and down out any opinions rising that you disagree with from others. They posted because they don't agree with Hogie, and you are posting in responce to them for making a post? LOL One of those "it's ok for me to do it but not you" eh?

Hogie posted a topic that was not locked (will be soon), is asking for thoughts just on the message body on the main page itself, and you are going ape shi t because others are posting their thoughts in responce to it? Hmmm I see your logic now.


You have my remorse Aspirax. Dealing with idiots (gasp yes I just called you an idiot Acolyte, time to get MAD at me hah) can be a pain in the rear.

[Zern]

[quote=gakso]I have a few things to say to all them people who r pissed off and sending insulting messages: u r morons. with out these people their would not be a Eqemu, with out these people u would not be playing on an actual working everquest emulator you would probably either be playing on Eqlive or trying to get Hackersquest to work. i believe that the Devs have every right to close Eqemu if some one is "leaching" off of it. You people shouldn

[Bigpull]

First off kiss my furry little ass. You fuckers deserve AOL and it's conclomerate ass reaming they give you daily, yes all of you even if your not an AOL subscriber are getting reamed daily by them fucktards. AOL as an isp, is was and always will be a breading ground for stupidity and ignorance.

Holier than thou, me? Damn straight when your IQ is over 140, i'll maybe look at you differently, untill then the line starts back there please remove any lip cosmetics for i have a sensative ass.

I really can't believe you people are defending this moron, you want to help him find him some nice ADHD links maybe, or call his mommy and ask her why she's not supervising her child on the internet.

[Zern]

Now ...onto my main thoughts about this...

Hmmm let

[Muuss]

I agree, this post should be closed.
to much passion expressed here.
keep your blood cold guys, that's game, only a game. don't push the limits to far please, don't push the devs to a situation where they wouldn't like their project anymore.

[Acolyte]

Wow, Acolyte remove your lips from Hogie's ass and stop trying to be the hero of the day and down out any opinions rising that you disagree with from others. They posted because they don't agree with Hogie, and you are posting in responce to them for making a post? LOL One of those "it's ok for me to do it but not you" eh?

First of all, idiot, it has nothing to do with my lips on anything because if it was, it would be not MY lips on anything, but rather your (censored). I am not trying to be anyones hero, but you can be goddamn sure that if I have an opinion on something I will post it, just like anyone else. No where in my post did I say it was OK for me to do anything but not OK for someone else to. I specifically said, my (censored) friend, that if you don't want public scrutiny don't post the shit here.

Hogie posted a topic that was not locked (will be soon), is asking for thoughts just on the message body on the main page itself, and you are going ape shi t because others are posting their thoughts in responce to it? Hmmm I see your logic now.

AFAIK there will be no locking of this thread. I'm not going apeshit on anyone but you bucko, because you posted this (censored) and I am bored at work.

You have my remorse Aspirax. Dealing with idiots (gasp yes I just called you an idiot Acolyte, time to get MAD at me hah) can be a pain in the rear.

I'm sure that he appreciates your sympathy. That is all.

Edit: In hind sight decided to edit this -- not trying to get too obscene.

[a_Guest03]

Guys, I have pneumonia and shouldn't be laughing like this! :lol: Anyway, Hogie owns this thing and can run it as he wishes. Those are the rules and those will always be the rules. When we stop coming around, Hogieland has no power. Until then, try not to piss off the overlord.

[Aspirax]

I couldn't resist:

"was and always will be a breading ground for stupidity and ignorance. "

Speaking of ignorance:
conclomerate = conglomerate
breading ground = breeding grounds
sensative = sensitive
untill = until

Hope that helps.

[a_Guest03]

There's a lot of ignorance to go around. Let's not start pointing it out here, lest I feel the need to go medieval, syntax- and grammar-style.

[DeletedUser]

Hmmm let’s see, this is a rather second follow up to a massive pile of crap going on lately. First the patcher going down, saying others are downloading files from other projects (Ethernal quest) and users who don't pay? (People will have to pay now? You are aware this opens the doors for Sony having a better footing to chew your ass up, right? Making profit from their material)

The patcher was made to use 1 time in a folder that was a copy of your Everquest folder. This is to save bandwidth, and so that when a new patch comes out, you aren't stuck until we decide to update.


Granted that all might be true but there is one thing that is asinine about it. Why in the world did you decide to post a link to the patcher on your main page? Almost as stupid as putting your hand out and trying to pet a snake and then ‘bit ching’ when it bites you. Keep this in mind also, granted I understand how pissed off you'd be by people who keep downloading the same file over and over because they lack common sense to create another folder. If you remove all access to this "patched (older client version)" of eqgame.exe and other files required, the population of EQEmu will start to take a nose dive. Only ones left will be those that were lucky enough not to have a system problem where they had to restore. Moving on.

Harddrives are a lot more cheaper than bandwidth. Just remember that....


Drop the project? If you want. More than likely will be told "none of your business" but I keep hearing you and other dev's say you keep cashing out money for this project. Granted I don't know both sides of the coin but what exactly are you cashing so much money out on? A log-in server? Hell, I downloaded Ethernal Quests files (which I want to mention in a second) and behold, a log-in server. I set up a little test with friends and this log-in server ran flawlessly on a Pen233mhz 256mb ram, 300 connections per minute logs showing only (yes only) 10mb over a five minute span sent out. You have 300 connections per minute every minute logging in? Point is you can't (maybe you will) say a log-in server is driving your bill up so high. So the question is what is? Your three static IPs? The amount of information pulled from this server for these forums? I'm just curious where all this "a lot" of money you and the devs are saying is going. Call me ignorant but I don't see where "a lot" could go, unless if you consider 100 dollars a lot …

The patcher alone does over 80gigs a month in traffic... The login servers happen to be on dedicated lines now too. Yes, I could cut back some on them, but unforunately, I dont have any money saved up to buy the new equipment off ebay or the setup fees to do this (Changing from SDSL to ADSL). I would also need a land line at my house (which I do not have right now), so that would be more, which ends up costing the same as we are right now for a line that gets money back when it goes down over 40 minutes a month....


Now for the files. I'm a software engineer. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out "hey this looks a lot like ........'s source." Now this might piss off a lot of you out there but item editors, spell editors, zone viewers ... linked lists files .... hell you name it most of that is in a project that has not been updated in, oh I don't know a while? Care to take a peek? www.ethernalquest.org. Is this what EQEmu is? A C++ revision to Ethernal Quests ruby structure? Would explain so much. I really don't know why you guys insult, bitch, whine, get your panties all tied up in a bunch with Ethernal Quest (aka whatever the hell you call it Hackers Quest? ) when it apparently clear you used their source to get where you are.

And some of you that release your programs putting your name on it and claiming you created it, or even source files, grow up and learn to program. Stop claiming others work as your own … that really pissed me off. Granted you don't care what pisses me off and that doesn't matter but learn to program pathetic script kiddies, or whatever the hell you like to claim you are. :roll:


Actually, if you go look at the about page... http://eqemu.net/?about, you will see exactly where our source code came from. I do believe it is what EthernalQuest is based off of too... We dont have any EthernalQuest source in our code, and we are a lot more open with our structures (They keep all of that data in a dll which is not open source). We only keep the username/password decryption closed (as the login uses that...).

Maybe you should run and do a diff or 2 before you start claiming we are renaming other projects and saying they are our own, expecially when that other project does not give out the source to everything, so they can keep it under control.

[mattmeck]

This was all about the original post right?....... oh ok thought so

:arrow:
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thats in the agrement to make an account......that covers it all dosnt it?

[a_Guest03]

Good eye, Matt.

[Trumpcard]

I go to lunch and come back and there are 3 pages of new responses on the pages.

As far as einstein, the software engineer's analysis of the code...

I'm a systems engineer so lets look a little at the code analysis, and let's discuss the history of the project a bit. EQemu is rooted in a project called Freequest, and it began LONG before Ethernal quest. I don't have any issues with Zordon's work, I think he's done great given the box he put around the project, but other than the packet structures (which mostly come from showeq data), I highly doubt theres much in common between the 2 projects, and from what I've seen theres not.

We use linked lists so obviously we must be using their code? A high caliber software engineer like yourself must know that it's a fairly common programming construct, so how do you figure it was taken from them? Maybe you and SCO can get together and point fingers at us. I've been working with dev access for 8 months, and I can tell you that I haven't seen anyone MENTION EthQ in the coder circle, much less look at any of their code.

As far as the project taking a nose dive, the project nose dives because no one works on it, not because people dont USE it... 99.9% of the people leech onto the project and dont offer anything in return, not even a single post, so what loss is there if they stop using it?? We're not getting popularity points for people using it.

The patcher was a bad idea IMHO in the 1st place, I knew that once it was there, people would use it EXACTLY the way we told them not too, then this whole situation would occur when the patcher finally died.

And since you're such an expert on our code and EthQ's, I've noticed that you havent offered a single piece of code contribution to the project....

Thats really the 1st post thats annoyed me, because it's so blantently rooted in ignorance.



[quote]And some of you that release your programs putting your name on it and claiming you created it, or even source files, grow up and learn to program. Stop claiming others work as your own

[Acolyte]

that may violate any applicable laws

I don't see anyone breaking any laws? Go cry over your spilled milk somewhere else :( !

[Zern]

No where in my post did I say it was OK for me to do anything but not OK for someone else to.

You are correct there sir. But you don't always need to bluntly say things to get your point across. Enough of this talk with you, if you wish to continue this talk feel free to PM me if it will keep you entertained, I know it will for me.



Hogie ...


I see now with the patcher, where the money is. Had a friend just suggest this but, perhaps it would be better to create a one time zip that people can download? Would save on bandwidth if they had the files that are needed to work with EQEmu in one file that would not be neeeded to be downloaded everytime they ran EQLive.
Could even iclude an *.bat file to start up EQ so they don't need to run the patcher to log on. Yes I'm aware some don't read instructions, and then fill up your boards with help regarding information they should know if they read it. Or even just forget the .bat. Create a tiny .exe that finds the installed path and then go from there but again just more suggestions.



-Agreed, HD space is cheaper than bandwidth, refer to suggestion above.


Well, the source. Also makes sense now if both groups started off with the same base code. Yes, I see how they are more paranoid with their information and stuffed it in some .dlls. But again base source both start with, will look alike, I apologize.


And for the other applications, I was not talking about EQEmu, more or less the other applications (3rd party forum) floating around. I have looked at the source for some that are released and they do look very similar. Nothing a night or two of cleaning up, adding your own personal style to give it a "it's my work" look.



Mattmeck, want a cookie? :)

[Acolyte]

Oh and Trump:

Maybe you and SCO can get together and point fingers at us.

This had me crying laughing IRL.

[a_Guest03]

Seriously, my lungs can't take this. :lol: Anyway, the zip thing is out. patcher was an attempt to force people to be legitimate, by proving that they owned the files that were being upgraded. The problem with a zip is that you can't control it. I keep bitching every time I see that eqfix.zip floating around. If I were an admin, I'd issue one last major warning, ban all posters after that, and edit the links out. Call me hardcore, but I don't screw around with that stuff.

Patcher was never a good idea, and I shared TC's views about it. It was created to temporarily fix a problem, and that problem was that eqemu versions were released more slowly than eqlive.

When I started following this project, it was December of 2001, and I lurked for a long time. I remember waiting forever to use any eqemu after a patch. At one time, it was months and months at a time that you couldn't use eqemu. And I was content to wait, and read the changelogs in anticipation of the next great thing.

It's now 6/03. If I had to wait 3 months again, it wouldn't be a hassle. The fact of the matter is that there are punks out there who want a solution in 6 minutes. 6 friggin' minutes. I understand that there are outliers to every population, both good and bad, and that these people are destined to exist. I don't have a problem with that. It seems that a lot more people (not relatively, just numerically) are in that bad group, and it wears on the original devs, who haven't had as much time to recruit the good group. There are a lot of great people in eqemu. There are a lot of new people who need their hands held. These people are just fine in my book. But the people who have their hands held and demand immediate solutions to their immediate needs over and over, and don't follow protocol and then try to assault their helpers, well... they deserve some punishment. I say that if Hogie wants to make an example of the one that pissed him off, it's his place to do so, to ensure that others understand the consequences. It's understandable that rumours start about negative events (that eqemu wanted to charge you to use it... that's a misinterpretation of Hogie's frustrated ramblings). All I ask is that you keep your minds sharp, and try to understand the motivations of the leaders of the project. They do not attempt to harm you. They do not attempt to charge you. They only want everyone to have a good time. So try to have a good time, and stay out of trouble. Be patient. Good things will come.

[vetoeq]

"I totally support Hogie, Trump, A_guest and everybody that will follow that path, there's no place for the jerks and peeps who don't see farther than their nose."

Don'r you understand that the devs are acting exactly like you describe?

Or is the "dish it out, but cannot take it" attitude supported by the community as well?
No, they are not acting the same way if you take the time to look at it in context. Hogie, Trump, A_Guest have all done a hell of a job contributing to the project, while the person this was originally directed at did exactly ZERO, actually...less than zero as it took time and some sanity to sort through his posts and type in: "Read the README and post in the proper forum."


"but leave the damned Devs alone. when you start donating 100 bux a week to THEIR project then YOU can have your say, otherwise piss off"

I guess you are not familiar with the constitution of the United States. Specfically Amendment #1.

This pertains only to the governments ability to stifle free speech. You cannot come into my home and start preaching and be protected by the first amendment. I suggest you read the constitution and the ancilliary works before throwing things around.

[Zern]

I go to lunch and come back and there are 3 pages of new responses on the pages.

As far as einstein, the software engineer's analysis of the code...


Thanks for the compliment, I like it. ... Einstein the Software Engineer's has a nice ring ... :lol:


I'm a systems engineer


Hats off to you, oh mighty one.


so lets look a little at the code analysis, and let's discuss the history of the project a bit. EQemu is rooted in a project called Freequest, and it began LONG before Ethernal quest. I don't have any issues with Zordon's work, I think he's done great given the box he put around the project, but other than the packet structures (which mostly come from showeq data), I highly doubt theres much in common between the 2 projects, and from what I've seen theres not.

Thank you for the information, as I have not followed this project since the beginning, have no clue where most of the origins started from (odd what you just mentioned is not posted in the about but again who really wants to know that much history of the game, right?)



We use linked lists so obviously we must be using their code?


Now where did I mention or hint to a linked list being code copied?
Seeing how we are both "Software engineers" or like to think we have that title, you would know a linked list is obsolete. If you need references to why, I direct you to my good friend, www.google.com and do some research. Assuming here so don't get all girly like on me, I assume you are not one of those developers who love to cling to a language and refuse to see anything better past what it is. (For the slow readers that don't understand what I'm pointing out, refer to our friend: the linked list).




Maybe you and SCO can get together and point fingers at us.


Point fingers? Feel threatened Trump? Sit down take a breather, you and I both know if Sony really wanted they would've shut down this project and all the others by now.



I've been working with dev access for 8 months, and I can tell you that I haven't seen anyone MENTION EthQ in the coder circle, much less look at any of their code.


Good to hear.



As far as the project taking a nose dive, the project nose dives because no one works on it, not because people dont USE it... 99.9% of the people leech onto the project and dont offer anything in return, not even a single post, so what loss is there if they stop using it?? We're not getting popularity points for people using it.


Yet again, PLEASE (cannot stress this enough) READ what I said. It would go into a nose dive not because people DO NOT WORK on it, but because of system related problems which would cause files to be corrupted, hard drives having to be formatted, etc and without the right "patched(older version of eqgame.exe)" client they can't sign on into the worlds. Learn to read? :lol:


The patcher was a bad idea IMHO in the 1st place, I knew that once it was there, people would use it EXACTLY the way we told them not too, then this whole situation would occur when the patcher finally died.


Agreed, one person can ruin it for others, but in this case more than one did.



And since you're such an expert on our code and EthQ's, I've noticed that you havent offered a single piece of code contribution to the project....


Hmm, granted I didn't give out my source code, which I'll explain in a moment, perhaps you should search my old posts? I did help with code for the locked doors granted it was not my original code but I did touch it up *GASP* like you guys did with a base code. Wow surprising.

And you're absolutely right, I wouldn't and wont give out any of my source. I asked countless times before for help with not so minor details in IRC and all I would get back is crappy attitude responses. Now tell me, after getting this vibe of "f off" from project leaders, why would anyone want to contribute code? And as far as I can tell my server ([LEGIT]Memories of Vex) had the most bug fixes on ALL of the servers. Laugh if you want but if you want proof, pop on Krushers and talk to the devs there. Two of them used to come onto my server while it was down. They complimented my work and even questioned why I was not recruited to become a dev for EQEmu as they were that impressed. Which is irrelevant but just pointing out how my word is real about my source seeing how you felt the need to poke at my "zero" contributions.



Thats really the 1st post thats annoyed me, because it's so blantently rooted in ignorance.


Seeing how you failed to read what I posted and look through my old posts, I understand your "blantently (it

[Zern]

Aspirax wrote:
"I totally support Hogie, Trump, A_guest and everybody that will follow that path, there's no place for the jerks and peeps who don't see farther than their nose."

Don'r you understand that the devs are acting exactly like you describe?

Or is the "dish it out, but cannot take it" attitude supported by the community as well?


Not supported by the community Aspirax, it is taken into that context with a few "powered/status granted" users that are on a power trip, and one of them is posting in this topic rather a lot but yet has no specific title to his name. It is people like him that give the others bad names but again ... if the higher ups don't do anything about those they grant this 'status/power' who take it to the extreem ... it does reflect something upon them.

[a_Guest03]

Regardless of how it reflects, Hogie still runs the project. This isn't a democracy. There are leaders and there are peons, but everyone is below Hogie. Where image (the idea, not the person) doesn't matter, code does matter. Contributions matter. Complaints matter if Hogie or his choice lieutenants agree. All of this argument is for a moot point. Hogie can do as he pleases.

So let it be written. So let it be done.

Hogie is a good project leader, and the project is good for having him. I don't see any undue punishments being dealt, and I do see much reward.

If you would like to criticize the developer recruitment process and explain why it failed to entice you, I'm sure Hogie would like to listen, as that affects the project. His rudeness to a rude user does not affect the project.

[Acolyte]

First of all stop posting 3 posts when you only need one. Second of all:

Hmm, granted I didn't give out my source code, which I'll explain in a moment, perhaps you should search my old posts? I did help with code for the locked doors granted it was not my original code but I did touch it up *GASP* like you guys did with a base code. Wow surprising.

I found that to be pretty lol.

[Edgar1898]

Stop posting the same post over and over again. Once is ok but the same exact post more than once is not. I'm getting tired of deleting it.

[Acolyte]

Zern: How about you just stop posting entirely, I take my last reply back.

wait for some other snide remarks from fellow posters such as Acholyte, as he seems to make the most humorous posts.

And if you do continue to post please, it's ACOLYTE you illiterate piece of shit. Also, a little tip -- if you have an argument back it up with valid points... the whole "because it's so blantently rooted in ignorance," is so close to the truth it makes me cry.

[DaGrahamster]

Hogie, I think is a lil overprotective of the forums. That's fine with me. I know i would be too. However it seems the most-used sentence by him is: "Ok I'm locking this topic" or something of that fashion.

All these little ppl who want everything done for them, who bug the Devs and Hogie or other ppl, should be more respectful of everything they do and see that helping them with their promblems isnt the brightest part of their day.

So, basically I think Hogie was in the right, but that he does seem a lil too self-righteouss and soemtimes maybe gets a lil too drunk on his personal power by locking anything that hits the forums with less than god-like admiration for him.

People on both sides need to act a little more mature.

[a_Guest03]

I disagree with your comment that Hogie is too drunk with power, but I don't want to fight about it.

As far as abuse, you can head over to the hackersquest boards to get a taste of that. The forums are relatively friendly here.

I'm just a "luser" there.

[DeletedUser]

Im locking this topic:P

It has gotten way off base from what it was suppose to be. There is too much flames going back and forth, so im putting a stop to it now.

Im not even going to put a reply in here to anything about me from before that I hadn't answered, since it does not give a chance for them to respond.

[Trumpcard]

Hats off to you, oh mighty one.

Well, you mentioned that you were a software engineer, so I felt it necessary to deflower you of any expectations that you were better than the rest of us.

Now where did I mention or hint to a linked list being code copied?

linked lists files .... hell you name it most of that is in a project that has not been updated in, oh I don't know a while? Care to take a peek? www.ethernalquest.org. Is this what EQEmu is? A C++ revision to Ethernal Quests ruby structure?

Thats where I got the idea... LINKED LISTS FILES... Let me put it in bold in case you dont see it .... LINKED LISTS FILES

Seeing how we are both "Software engineers" or like to think we have that title

As I said before, Im a systems engineer. There obviously is a vast difference. I would be happy to compare resumes anytime you would like to see what a professional one looks like.

I assume you are not one of those developers who love to cling to a language and refuse to see anything better past what it is

I do 90% of my work these days in Java, but you use the right tool for the right job. EQEmu is a C++ project, but I don't see how that ties into linked lists. You can implement a linked list in any language, so what does the language have to do with the programming construct used?

you would know a linked list is obsolete

Please, master of underware engineering, explain to us our flaws for using a lowly linked list... For something thats obsolete, it's still one of the primary constructs taught in universities today. If you would like to go back and retrofit everything with a doubly linked super duper hash table, knock yourself out...

Feel threatened Trump?

Hey, you're the one accusing us of stealing code, I was just explaining how you didnt know what you were talking about...

Learn to read?

I don't need to, I have software engineers that do that for me while they're fetching my coffee...

And you're absolutely right, I wouldn't and wont give out any of my source. I asked countless times before for help with not so minor details in IRC and all I would get back is crappy attitude responses. Now tell me, after getting this vibe of "f off" from project leaders, why would anyone want to contribute code? And as far as I can tell my server ([LEGIT]Memories of Vex) had the most bug fixes on ALL of the servers. Laugh if you want but if you want proof, pop on Krushers and talk to the devs there. Two of them used to come onto my server while it was down. They complimented my work and even questioned why I was not recruited to become a dev for EQEmu as they were that impressed. Which is irrelevant but just pointing out how my word is real about my source seeing how you felt the need to poke at my "zero" contributions.

I don't recall ever speaking to you, and never heard of your server... So you dont mind sucking up our bandwidth, using our central login server, and trolling our boards, but you didnt feel the need to contribute even though your server was so magnificant because somebody wuz mean to you? Ohh, poor baby ! Everyone, be nice to Zern or he'll keep his code to himself... I've put up with a helluva lot more than apathy from the community around here and I still contribute, so don't expect sympathy from me you leech.

[quote]it