The dream of Classic EQ - and why it doesn't work.
 

Lately, and in fact, throughout the entire history of EQemulator, I've seen servers pop up that strive to make the classic EQ, the EQ of Vox and Nagafen, the EQ of Short Swords of Ykesha and Flowing Black Silk Sashes, the EQ where a resurrection was about as common as an honest politician. These servers never truly stick around, never truly make it, despite all the people who seem to want nothing more than such a server. In this post, I will try to explain why.

Wanting to go back to EQClassic is a nice dream. But, it is a dream. Like the crack addicts we are often compared to, MMORPG players share one thing in common - we all long back for the thrill of our very first shot.

The experience where everything was new, where danger was around the corner, where you didn't have a handy little backspace map or a spoiler site to tell you what would happen if you killed that evil alligator and retrieved the troll's arm. (BTW, that quest sucked so much. 5 hours work for a piece of rawhide)

But you can't experience the feeling of something new by recreating something old. You won't be getting lost in Neriak, because every merchant is nicely marked out on that map of yours. You won't be getting killed by hill giants, because they will be hardfarmed for cash. You won't stare up in wonder at the Aviak City, because you've seen it all before. And aviak_rook07 really isn't that much more interesting on Tom's EQ Classic than they are in the ghost town of South Karana on live.

Additionally, there is the matter of experience gain and high end incentive. If you really wanted to recreate the original EQlive, you would have to recreate the ardous process of gaining experience, the frequent and penalizing deaths, the bleak corpse runs, the lack of comfortable clicky transporation. And as a server admin, trust me - if players don't get the comforts they are used to after years of noobification in the cuddle-land of Sony's EQ, they will bitch and moan. And the server admin will either give in, or find his server deserted, as people realize how not so incredibly fun it is to spend 12 hours soloing from 10-12 in Northern Desert of Ro, reliving content that has been experienced, chewed down, spat out and dissected to fine pieces by ten spoiler sites. Compared to the first shot, it seems as appealing as a Happy Meal to a Nobel Dinner. And you don't even get a plastic toy.

The server admin who realizes this and increases the experience gain of his server, throws in a few whistles and bells, maybe a PoK, or even Plane of Time (I saw a rather absurd server idea that wanted to be EQlive Classic... except with Plane of Time too. GG tanking Quarm in crafted), will soon find his server full of really bored high levels. They'll go wack Vox (who the server admin must have tweaked down, since gathering a raid 30 players isn't feasible on most servers), they'll kill Nagafen, they'll give the Vox hammer to a pet, they'll go mess around in Plane of Fear.

And then what?

There's no dungeons to explore they can't just read fifty-page essays on instead, detailing out the exact drops, spawn chances, and sexual lives of every NPC in the dungeon. There's no real useful factions to build up. There's no epic quests to do. There's no real reason to start another character, since it'll blow to 50 in no time with the increased experience gain. And at this point, the server admin finds himself with two choices. He can watch the playerbase shrink and drop, or he can bring an entirely new carrot to the playing board. A few more levels, maybe, or a few new places to raid, maybe even Epic quests.

Enter Kunark.

This has been a drawn out post, but I'll close with a simple statement. EQ Classic was wonderful, it was thrilling, it was the childhood of 3D MMORPGs, full of innocence and wonder and myth. But we've grown up. Spoiler sites dissect the myths, tear the illusion down, reveal the man behind the curtain. Trying to remain a child forever is futile. And so is trying to recreate EQ Classic. Make new content. Make a new game. Try to remake the feeling of wonder and exploration. But it can't be done by reviving the pale spectre of the past.

/applause

It's not just EQ CLassic. EQ as a whole is just not thrilling to me any more. I thought it would be great to build my own world and quests etc. In reality, it's all still the same game really. I thought coming to play EQEmu and setting up a server was going to be that "good old days" feeling like when I started playing EQ. I was wrong. Wiz makes a good point. I totally agree, but to me it goes beyond even EQ Classic.

Very well said Wiz. This is so unfortunately true, which is why custom servers are the way to go. :D

almost shed a tear thier very touching and true :D

Damn you !! dont mess with my reality like that , damnit it IS real I tell you ............crap here come the Fayguards gotta go .....

Very Well Said Wiz, and i totally agree, I remember my first eq char was a DE wiz and i remember the first 10 plat i got i thought i was rich =(. lol i still have that newbie longing when i hear the merchant music... but as you said nothing is like that first high you get when you strike down your first skeleton, or when you get your first crit hit/blast, you thought you were the shit, and well maybe you were <shrug>. And really people don't want to start over with nothing, its like inventing a new product that makes you millions of dollars, who is going to want to return to the days in college when you had to buy the 10 for $1 Ramen noodles that you ate 3 times a day.

And with that comes the same problem with custom servers. No one wants to play on a server where they have to start out naked again, fighting lvl 10 mobs and dieing, having to do CR's that most likely get you killed again in the process. Alot of the semi-legit servers are fun in this becuase they supply you with a way to get some newbie gear for free, or maybe a whole test gear set up, which is on one of the LoTR servers i sadly don't remember what one =(, but it was fun.

So whats their solution? Everyone asks to be a GM, Trust me to anyone out there who wants to be a GM becuase either you can't run yoru own server, or you are to lazy to do it, asking on a server and saying you can pop mobs really well doesn't really cut it for more Server Admins. and even more so if they do give you GM status you will soon find that it isn't anything like you imagined, i know when i first became a guide on EQlive i was expecting to get tons of respect from people, getting all the cool guide gear, and showing off by hosting cool events.... but.. fact is, it sucks, all you do is listen to people bitch and moan about shit they are making up about lost gear, you have to give shift reports on every peition you answer, and you aren't even allowed to fight mobs, plus the event list they give you is SOOOOOOO damn boring, that you never want to do them. So all in all, stop asking.. If your really thinking of being a GM on another server than my advice would be to learn a programming language that would be of use to them, otherwise your going to be bored as hell.

Got a bit off topic there sorry, All in all, its sad but true, we all loved the first time we were able to purchase our first full set of spells, but after that it was no longer a challenge you had to meet, but a burden you had to carry every few levels. I Think wiz says it the best, an eqclassic server just can't be done and still retain its fun factor.

(The PoTime in an eqclassic server that is funny. Sounds like the thing I remember hearing about someone wanting to include PoHate, PoSky, and PoFear into plannar progression, as an EQlive mirrior... hmm)

i miss the ec tunnel where i got my wizzy to 200 int ( back when 200 was the cap) at lvl 30 and i was the absoulte shit. and when i had to stare at my spellbook from lvl 4-30 i think it was. /tear i miss the nk and nro music too :(

Well said.

EQ was good, but only in the sense that we didn't know better.

Very well written Wiz! I can only say that i agree with you 100%.

theres alot of incorrect things being said here, ill try to sort thruogh tthem.

-some people think prekunark was better because we were newbs.. and wiz thinks the point of a classic server is to 'get lost in neriak' and be a newb or something.. being a newb isnt what made pre kunark good

-

you really seem to think eq classic was good because we were new to it. thats not what were trying to bring back. were trying to bring back 'the vision' tm, get rid of awfull eqlive team content etc

why cant we relive the old days? you dont think it will be a challenge? all content been spit thru? well lvl 20 used to be a challenge and it can be again.. whens the last time you tried to take on black burrow in a group of newbs in cloth and rusty weapons?

why cant magic items be leet again?

why cant a giant snake fang be a decent lowbie piercer, or why cant a warrior gawk at a minotaur axe again

why cant walking to highhold for a sharpening stone be worth your time again?

i dont know why you cant relive the old days, but i sure can if the servers there. theres plenty of content you havent expierenced in the old world. you and probly most people who posted here never did any quests besides the newbie quest armor and their epic. maybe cb belts if they were a elf lol. play a new race and talk to your guildleader, walk through your city, talk to a random npc, complete a random quest and have the outcome be worth your time and the reward not trivialized by another dev teams content .. circle of elements changes npcs names, keywords, and even adds twists to the most popular quests so there not over done- and if a kunark came out it would have to be totaly reworked to not trivialize content like it did.

theres no point in the custom servers, original eq content is gold, you cant fuck with it, i mean, when you play WR, you dont give a shit about the lore or setting and dont really care why we all start in erudin or thurg, because its still just erudin and thurg were still playing eq, but the zone connections are fuxd.

GL on trying to make something better than pre-kunark eq...

There's one.

Nothing "incorrect" has been said. It's all a matter of opinion really. There is no right or wrong here.

Why? Because people already know where to find better stuff. And knowing that there is better stuff out there, and knowing how bad the enemy AI is, it's easy to get. Without the unknown EQ really isn't all that great a game. It's a BIG game, but it's just not great in my opinion. I think what Wiz has done is excellent. Making the game unpredictable breathes new life into what had become stale.


Just your opinion. I think the fact that his server has a good number of players shows that peopel ARE interested in the lore and DO like the new feel of the game.

You won't need luck. It's not going to be hard.

That's entirely your opinion. Once you find yourself living through the exact situations I describe in terms of advancement, and people dropping out because they have nothing to do, you might see my point.

Regardless, as far as successful and better servers go, WR currently has the highest population record of any EQemu server of all time (150, and not on loginserver list - it lies), so I don't think I'm completely uneducated on how to make a fun server. :)

SIgh
 

I was one of those oldskoolers thinking i was da shit when a GM offered me a pair of Ro boots for my pally if i did a little quest for him. Oh, and when I got my first Wurmslayer. :wink: *Sniff* I'll never forget that.

But thats why I started the NeverQuest Project. I am making Classic EQ in the Neverwinter Nights Engine. When it is done I know the playerbase will be through the roof. It plays a lot different from EQ yet still gives you the old timey feel of EQ.

Not to be plugging my project or anything.. It has been in development for over a year and has over a year to go. But this is a way I choose to Keep EQ Classic alive in my heart. And the way I want my children to experience it.

We can keep the feeling alive but we have to move on from believing that the thrill will come from old rehashed content.

Great point in this thread. It kinda made me sad because I was trying not to admit to myself the reality of never being excited about Ro Boots and a Wurm Slayer again :(

Re: SIgh
 

Since NWN came out I've been playing it. I have several releases of your NQ project that I've tried out. Looking forward to the completion of it. :)

so what if they know. its a challenge pre-kunark, they still have to earn what they aquire, it will still be just as hardcore as back inthe day, not a grind fest where you twink yourself in bazaar along the way

do you really think people would rather play wr than the orignal eq?

dont fool yourself.. wr is nothing compared..

Those words alone seal your idiocy. WR is filled with type of content rarely ever seen by ANY EQEmu server (or most MMORPGs, mind you). Wiz has done an incredible job on the server, and it shines by the amazing reputation the server has gained. No mindlessly put together classic EQ server will/could ever compare to it's immensity, unless the database is 100% hand-crafted by a diehard whose experience exceeds all others.

Hats off to you, Wiz, great article. Hopefully most will read this and understand that many features on the EMU will simply not be weaved together in order to ever create a (successful) classic EQ server.

In fact, I do. Else there would be a hugely successful "classic" server that had stolen all WR's playerbase, would it not? WR has survived for two years. No classic server has even lived a tenth of that.

Your views are based on personal beliefs. Mine are based on rational logic.

Logic generally tends to win out.

Interesting topic, and in my opinion, everyone is right here - this is a matter of opinion.

EQ Classic could be recreated, and, if you really believe it, the players will try hard to get the 1337 wurmy , and collapse when they see a wizard running round in full magic gear. It could happen, with hard work, it is a possibility.

Then there is the other side of the argument. Players have now seen +30 to all stats, +20 to all resists, +200 HP / Mana gear - so why would they bother trying to get a +3 wis +10 hp gear on an EQ Classic server ? What would be the point in playing on a server where you cant click on a stone and go to the other side of Norrath, when you can on another server ?

It's all opinion and players views guys . As Raex said, you're both right, there is no wrong. This is all opinion.

I'm not too sure what I think...

Thanks to Wiz, he said in one post what im trying to explain since a long moment, i think that english as native language helped him~
Anyway, i have to say that my opinion is different from Wiz on one point, the fact that you have to create a totally new world to offer to players a new experience.
For me, EverQuest offer a good basic lore (background, NPC, zones), yes, SOE screwed this lore with the expansions, but for me, you can make something good with existing EverQuest lore, no need to recreate a new world.

I have to admit i never logged in Winter Roar, so i wont speak about it, but generally, peoples that develop a new background/lore for their RPG totally screw it and never use it at 100%, this lore they created is only here to say you have to kill some mobs, or do this quest, nothing that really involve you in the game, this is true for non-commercial games as well as commercial games.

You don't have to create a new world to make something new and enjoyable. You just have to make something new and enjoyable.

And english is my second language. ;)

You english is very good for a second language, i bet you dont have a secretary to do your translations because you are too lazy ? :/

Hah. :P

I speak english almost as well as I speak my native language, swedish.

Darn, Wiz is swedish, now i know why you rocks ... i wish im a swedish sometimes, so i would be able to make kick ass demos

haha whats up with people saying wurmslayer is classic!?! Wurmslayer was soo kurnark.

And I must agree, with wiz on this view. I thought a EQclassic would be good, but after reading the article he wrote, it did put things in a better view for me. Playing it again would be as fun as playing it for the first time.

Wow who would have known...

In the great words of Bruce Willis ---

anyway, i agree with wiz, you don't need new lore, just new content, however creating/adding new lore does help, somthing that SOE never did right, hehe kinda like their huge screw up with the story behind EQ2 where the sleeper destroyed luclin and rampaged over norrath destroying the cities, execpt... the sleeper was killed on live. soo hmmm....

I don't really know where i am going with this so i will just shut up.... thanks again have a good day..

Long live the jews.

I know where your going with it. If he was killed on live there would be no way he could ravage the world, and by the making that the lore that just means that they wont allow people to play apart in the lore.

Someone has never been married....

no classic server has ever even been playable yet =/

i guess its just my opinion, but i dont think you can make a game better than the original eq, just by making your own npcs, quests, renaming zones and changing zone connection. i did solo a warrior to 9 on your server and did some quests and started a ton, and talked to like every npc, but the whole time it was just a sorry shadow of eq, and i was a halfling in erudin for some reason.

uh.. because on a classic server the +3 wsi and +10hp is uber and just as much an acomplisment..

xpansions screwd the lore?? the LORE!?! i think you under estimate the how ufcked up eqlive is

you just explained the point.

im going to assume that was a typo and you ment WOULDNT be as good as the first time. ok, lets see, it wouldnt be as fun as the first time, why not? if they brought back the old game just like it was back then, why wouldnt it be as fun? ok its opinion and maybe it wouldnt be as fun for you beccause your a freak and eq was your first mmog and you want to be a newbie again or something.. but playing on an old world server, with old world gameplay and content and mechanics is the best it can freaking get.

we havent played everquest, the REAL everqeust in 4 years. if the server came around you kno you would play it..

i dont see what the point of this thread is.. an old world server is to hard to make? an old world server wont have enuf content?? it wouldnt be as fun as back in the day?? eqemu doesnt have the tools to remake the real everquest?? whats the point wiz??

If you don't get the point, you probably should re-read the initial post. But very well, I will take it again.

The dream of EQclassic, and the frenzy over EQclassic that many people have shown is most of all an empty dream. A server that is purely EQclassic will not hold any interest because EQclassic does not contain a worthwhile high end game and in reality, far from everyone will enjoy getting derv rings in nro again, once the novelty of "old school" wears off. If you want to make a successful server, you will need to do something else than just rip off an existing game. I don't think WR is more fun than EQlive was the first time around, but EQlive mostly was fun because it was the first time around. AC2 is pretty similar to what EQlive was back then. All casual-play directed, no endgame. AC2 flopped. EQclassic was not the godly, beat-it-all game you imagine.

I provided a good amount of logical backing for this point. You didn't even bother to try and debunk them, you just brought up WR and tried to attack it instead, whereas I had not even mentioned or tried to promote my own server. If you can explain how you will keep the interest of a playerbase limited to PoHate, PoFear, PoAir and Vox/Nagafen, feel free to do so. But constantly stating "do you think u can make a better game than EQclassic? FOOL" is not arguing, it's blind belief. If you're going to question my arguing, we could take a look at your own initial post.

Unfortunately, because of the current client versions and little game perks - you won't. The Vision's primary and absolutely most golden rule was -You do not know-. You do not know what your skills are, what your mana are, if that red mob is doable or way too deep red, what actually spawns in that room in that dungeon, what will happen if you follow through the dialogue of that Highkeep NPC. It was the enemy of little floating expression marks that defined "Hey! You! I have a quest! Hello! I only spawn in this world to stand around and give you a quest! I have no realistical or story-enchancing existance!" cue WoW and Wayfarer's Brotherhood. You can't relive the vision with in-game maps. You can't relive the vision in a world that is explored in to its very tiniest component.

Unrelated appeal to nostalgia. Noone said you couldn't, I only said why in the end, it's not going to work out, and won't last beyond the initial "oh my god I died to tranix darkpaw this is so cool"

Unrelated appeal to nostalgia. The items in themselves do not have some magical fun-value that will make your gaming experience great because they well, have shitty stats.

Again, primarily an appeal to nostalgia. Makes one half-valid point, that lots of people didn't play back then, but it's moot if you just go take a look-see at www.allakhazam.com. You change NPC names and keywords? That's a good start, but you're going to need to do more than that to keep interest at level 50.

Completely unbacked and unnecessary attack that carries the argumental value of "my wang is bigger than yours" without even pulling down your pants to give a demonstration. Return when you can explain why EQclassic was such an awesomealiciousoverthetop experience without appeals to tradition, emotion, or nostalgia.

Fairly unrelated and unbacked glorification.

You provided one-half assed display of logic throughout your entire initial post. The rest was emotional mumbo jumbo.

Nothing is immortal in life Bbum, my best moments in life was my first times, first time i kissed a girl, first time i had sex with a girl, first time i seen a gnome in full bronze while playing EQBeta, First time i have see my babies in maternity, even with the best effort, you will never be able to resurrect those first time moments, there are things that belong to past, "EQClassic" is one of them.
All things evolve in life, MMORPG evolved since EQBeta, maybe not on the right side, i can admit it, but they evolved, and you cant refuse this evolution by being struck in your mentality, i think its the point of Wiz. An example would be Black and White TV, my grand'ma watched it, it was the first TV, only one channel, she loved it, but now, she is watcher 16/9 color TV with Pro Logic and 350+ channels, evolution ... darwin law ...

just becuase its a female doesn't make it a girl.

Why yes that would be your opinion, no need to guess. And once again no you can't make the game better by changing the original eq, becuase that would infact be a new eq, not the original. Like i said earlier i still have a longing for the newbie days when you actually had to sit your ass and med for 10 mins waiting for 20m becuase your regen was so low, you actually had some challange to stay alive, now, hell there isn't a thing in the game that can't be beat, aside from maybe the jester in PoM, has anyone killed him?... well most have long since given up becuase SpyEQ reveals he has no loot tables anyway... and i don't think he has any story like the sleeper did..... hmm off topic again, but really its just the fact that after someone has seen that at level 10 it is infact possible to make a 50 point hit with the right gear, who wants to have to sit and wait and watch those 2 and 3 point hits going by whent they know they probably won't see alot of the high end zones (PoH and PoSky and such in original eq... i think. *i was post kunark*) without the aid of the server op. or a GM.

So to solve this people don't create the old eq, they instead mold their own stories, ideas and quests around the old stuff, as well as adding lots of new stuff, so instead of waiting all that time to get up to lvl 50 and all of a sudden not be able to go anywhere high end without a raid, you can instead take the alternate route that the server ops have made for you and you can have tons of fun soloing or just going with 2-3 people. <shrug>

If you didn't understand what i was getting at, lets just put it like this. "No matter how hard you try, it won't work, its not worth it, old stuff has long since turned old, its the new and improved storys, quests that are in demand, thats why SoE releases expansions, although they all suck now, but still its to keep the place alive."

Just read this post....
 

I just read this post for the first time, had never even noticed it before, but man, did you have to drop reality on me like that? Lol, I couldn't even finish reading the whole thread....I started tearing up as my dreams of reliving EQClassic were ripped from the nether regions of my brain...ouch....

Anyways, I thought I'd share my opinion of EQLive...it was okay, even the lore remained half intact as it spread from EQClassic to up to the Velious expansion, after that, with the addition of Luclin, druids and wizards became unimportant, boat use was minimal, and eventually died out... The ability to travel between continents and explore the moon via spires nearly ruined the EQ experience for me, I was about ready to quit. I managed to stick with it, and then PoP came out, GAH, the ability to travel to SO MANY CITIES BY CLICKING A F*CKING STONE seriously ruined EQ for me.... I nearly quit leveling and merely played the game to sit in PoK and talk to friends I had made. It was sad....

The point of this is, I believe an EQClassic server, while not as fun as I had originally hoped, nor as popular as many of the current servers, could be somewhat enjoyable.

Now...does anyone have an amnesia ray I can borrow...I wanna go back to the beginning, when I was a newb, and I WAS excited about any item I got....GOD I LOVED MY FIRST WURMY!!!!

I still dont see the point wiz. Make it alittle more clear for me.

Is the point: A pre-kunark server wouldnt have enough content? cause thats mostly what im seeing

well i just dont know about that =/ im expecting the level to 50 to feel like a grind all over again, and i mean a hardcore grind where you prove your worhty of the next lvl not the brainless grind to 50 today. im expecting it to be like old days where half the days your group ends the day with negative expierence.

and i dont know about your expierence, but to me going in plane of hate was barly worth it we got pwned so hard. Even later PoFear i got owned with a full group of lvl 50's, to me theres tons of content out there to keep us busy, we probly wouldnt see planar armor on the server for a good few months. the content lasted me back then and i didnt even see it all.

i think if anything it would be to hardcore for all the newbs used to leveling now, especially if hell lvls, lvl 1 corpse runs, no soul binder npcs, no maps no find no teleports no newbie quest gear came back

why do you say that? you think they would rather have derv rings be obsolete? why do you call it a novelty?? would you rather have what the eqlive team has created??

Your the one trying to rip off eq. Were trying to recreate the eq we havent played in 4 years, and we kno it. You cant take eq, and make a better game than eq thats not even on norrath, we know were stil playing eq, its just not fun IMO. but we can upgrade norrath, make whats already there better. seems alot more realistic than making a new game to me, because in the end its really just another eq server but whacked out, and not the quality of everquest

not everyone has explored every inch of norrath, and no ones forcing you to look at allakazam, so speak for yourself.

No. They dont have shitty stats. They are ubar, and an accomplishment to aquire. Unlike in eqlive. That is the point.

What is it you want me to explain? why eqclassic is better than eqlive? why its more worth while to create a pre-kunark remake than trying to create a new game? why eq classic had better gameplay than any other mmorpg since? i dont think i need to

well since that is untrue, i will now post every bit of logic i tried to communicate to you in my last post.

khan- ok, stop there, EQ WAS NOT GOOD BECAUSE YOU THINK I WAS SOME MMOG VIRGIN. eq was better than eqlive and other modern mmorpgs because it of gameplay mechanics, deep lore and its hardcore challenge.

that is a one bad example. New tvs pwn ur grandma's tvs. but eqlive doesnt pwn shit, it evolved into crap.

thats what i think to, but just because they have to add more content does not mean they have to trivialize old content, noob the game up by killing gameplay mechanics and kill the old zones lets face it, the eqlive team didnt know what they were doing.

i quit leveling and sat at newbie left in kelethin and buffed peopel and just talked to people, pvp'd, and buffed newbs .

the only way to have fun in live is to do random quests you can find around your city, even though the reward is not worthwhile, not do newbie gear quests, only use what yu loot, and not twink yourself.

btw, gettnig your wurmy can be just as much an acomplishment as before. it was the game mechanics that made orignal eq what it was, not being a noob.

That's very cool. Unfortunately, as I explained, it's not going to be the same getting pwned in PoHate. If you put exp rates at the same as original live, you're never going to have enough 50's to tackle Hate.

Not to mention strats are available on every mob there. How are you going to do no maps? They are an integrated part of the client,c an't be changed.

And the hardcore grind is going to lose you a lot of players. Less people want to spend forever leveling than you think on a server that has about 50 other people to interact with. Trust my experience on this. I have dealt with thousands of players and their complaints and wishes over the last two years. I'm not just speaking out of my ass here. If you don't believe me, I can dig up some quotes from players on matters such as experience gain, content progression, downtime and transporatation. Are you going to forbid dual clienting? Because otherwise that will rather trivialize this hardcore grind you're aiming for.

You wouldn't see armor for months? Awesome. Players will drop off like flies from lack of progression. No, the content didn't "last", in fact most high end players (myself included) were bored to tears around when Kunark came out. There was nothing to do. I saw a necromancer spend about 50 hours raising Rivervale faction, because he had nothing else to do. This might make you blissful with nostalgia, but not me.

Because it's totally irrelevant. People have done it before, and it's hard to get excited over +2 DEX rings. Let me explain something to you. There are two kinds of values. Objective and subjective. Objective values are things like food. You must have food. Subjective values are things like money, a John Travolta movie or an item in EQ. Everyone knows, nowadays, that 2 DEX does exactly jack and shit. It's totally irrelevant if there's nothing better out there. +0.1% proc rate isn't going to cause anyone to cream their pants. Their subjective value will be quite low.

It's called modify. Look it up on dictionary.com. I'm not trying to rip off EQ anymore than Counterstrike tried to rip off Half-Life. I am changing a game that I love into my own ideal image of it. You are copying and pasting the past into the present, in utter ignorance of the fact that things change. Again, you make these utterly and totally unfounded claims of superiority, backed by nothing except empty jargon. Here's how you make a point:

A) Pete is much better at soccer than Bob
B) Why?
A) Because Pete scored 10 goals last season, and Bob scored none.

-NOT-

A) Pete is much better at soccer than Bob.
B) Why?
A) Because Pete is much better at soccer than Bob.

Now wasn't that informative? You'll need to explain WHY EQclassic was such amazing quality, besides what I already stated, the point of the vision and the fact that it was first and undespoiled. Why are blackburrow gnolls so infinitely superior to Velious gnolls or WR gnolls? I love oldworld, but it's not the end-all gaming experience.

This shows that you have no practical understanding of how players work. People WILL look at allakhazam if they can. That's just how they work, shown to unprecedented amounts by the very EQlive you yearn for.

Actually, they do. Getting a giant snake fang is not an accomplishment. Nor a mino axe. It takes nothing but a level 20 character for either. How is that an accomplishment compared to say, Uqua gear in EQlive, which takes months and extreme dedication to get? :?: Or even or Cmal3 gear on WR, which takes a well-balanced, skillful group with good gear to acquire? You seem to be rather blinded by your own prejudice here.

Actually, you do. Because you believe in EQclassic the almighty doesn't mean everyone else do. You're projecting all over the place. Or alternatively, you just can't argue your point logically, so you spit out more emotional garbage.

Hoo boy. Here we go.

Personal bias. I don't enjoy the PoK books, but many people do. You're projecting.

This wasn't logical at all. First of all, you have no rights to make claims as to what the REAL everquest is. The REAL everquest is the game that the current owners of the everquest brand distribute. Secondly, things have changed in those four years that make it impossible to go back completely, as I explained, thirdly, the last part of this sentence is exceptionally stupid projection where you try to assert that I share your views, despite all what I posted why this server simply wouldn't be very fun. Or, essentially:

A) I hate broccoli.
B) Oh come on, if I gave you broccoli you know you would eat it.
A) ???

How is that in any shape or form logical? Man, you really need to learn how to argue.

Right, let's split this up.

Ad hominem. Double ad hominem, even. To display what an ad hominem is, we'll bring out our educational friends A and B again.

A) Tolkien was the father of fantasy, he essentially created the genre.
B) You're wrong because you're stupid.
A) What does that have to do with my point? Argue my point!
B) I won't because you smell.

Here's a quiz for you. Which person here used an ad hominem, dismissal of a point on the weak grounds of a personal insult? I'll give you a hint. It wasn't A.

Oh for fucks sakes, MORE unbased promotion? I believe we already covered this in the argumentative school.

I'm going to repeat argumentative school again, just for your benefit, so maybe you can construct something that makes sense next time:

Making a point and backing it up.

A) Pete is much better at soccer than Bob
B) Why?
A) Because Pete scored 10 goals last season, and Bob scored none.

-NOT-

A) Pete is much better at soccer than Bob.
B) Why?
A) Because Pete is much better at soccer than Bob.

How to avoid Projecting

A) I hate broccoli.
B) Oh come on, if I gave you broccoli you know you would eat it.
A) ???

The simple key to avoiding projecting is to stop assuming everyone else has the same mindset at you. Also known as: Not being an ant.

How to avoid Ad Hominems

A) Tolkien was the father of fantasy, he essentially created the genre.
B) You're wrong because you're stupid.
A) What does that have to do with my point? Argue my point!
B) I won't because you smell.

Avoiding Ad Hominems is even easier! To avoid an Ad Hom, all you have to do is argue the points, not the person. I know, I know, it'd require you to actually say something coherent, but see the first part of argumentative school,
Making a point and backing it up. for this.

So, kids, did everyone learn something today?

Re: Just read this post....
 

I think an EQclassic server could be enjoyable, at least for some time, before boredom from lack of progression sets in, or people tire of being on a server with 20 people split over 12 cities. No doubt. Probably even a good amount of enjoyable if it somehow managed to concentrate the playerbase to a small area and get it to grow considerably. But it won't be EQclassic.

Wiz.... ^.^ *rubs his head* Could you say all that again.... only so that a 20 year old numb nut can understand? Ha ha.. I got lost haflway in the post with all the qoutes... well either that or i read so much that my mind was going Link dead lol.... ..ill just reread it in a little bit I guess...

EQ clasic with 20 heck even 100 people playing on the server would suck bad. LFG for fours and hours, not able to solo or do anything by yourself due to the legit rules and crappy ( compared to todays twink stuff ) gear.

If you could start a clasic server and have thousands play on it it would work and work well, with less then 100 playing it would die in no time. There may be a little crew of 5-6 people who play together but how much fun is a server with few people?

Jesus H. Christ. That was very well writen. I've had the insatuable urge for classic, the peril, the lostness, all of that jazz. You made me see the clear! I may quit EQ now for good. You've liberated my mind.

Thank you.

My opinion
 

I saw a flash movie somewhere a while ago that showcased pictures and music from classic EQ, and it brought tears to my eyes ..silly as that may seem, but EQ was so magical when I first started playing it. Everyone was using classic character models, someone with an epic was Godly, etc. Luclin hadn't been envisioned yet. Now adays, EQ is a lot different and as the point was made earlier (Wiz I think), nobody wants to wear a +2 DEX ring when they can easily get a +10 DEX ring. Hell even newbie armor is better than what we started with back in pre-kunark days. Cloth, leather, and if you were substantially rich, chain of some sort. More on this below.


In EQemu I would enjoy a classic server for about 20 minutes, tops. You see, in EQlive I HAVE to level up. There are no commands, and if I choose to play EQlive, I have no choice but to work for what I want. So if I want to level up and work for gear, I play EQlive. But in EQemu, on many servers, I type #level and #si and #scribespells. So why would I dabble around playing on a server where I would have to level up, and have to work for those +2 DEX rings, when I could easily switch to another and have time gear within minutes? Because that's not the way I like to play EQemu. The reason a classic EQ server wouldn't work in EQemu is -For many people including myself, EQemu is a way to see what high-end EQ is like (for the most part). It's an escape from EQlive, an escape from mad hours spent on my ass hitting the Q key and drinking soda. As I have seen first hand from running my own EQemu server, people want Time and GoD gear. People complain about things such as, my ring of prismatic visions disappeared when I zoned, omg!!!11!1 and, Are there any custom items on the server and OMG you NERFED 11000??????!??!11?!?!11 ..not ONE person complained about plague rat tail drops on large rats in qeynos2. I had to increase the exp multiplier on my server to keep people happy, because they wanted to level up quickly. I added an NPC that gave players level 20 right away. Guess what happened? The player base skyrocketed from the average 2 people a day to 15-20 people a day and more. This happened because most people don't WANT to dabble around for hours. They want what they want, and they want it NOW, not next week. I left that oppurtunity open for my players, and they grabbed ahold of it and began to dance with it. Not one player on my server chose to ignore the Headmaster and level, not one. Now, I'm not saying that there aren't people who enjoy spending endless hours earning that 12AC breastplate and leveling up, there are, and sometimes I do myself. But not in EQemu, not when the oppurtunity for better is always there, ready to take in an instant. When people know there is better out there, and know it is easy to get, they're going to go for the better. That's human nature - If you were offered a Pinto or a Ferrari, which would you choose?

To sum it all up, EQ classic is gone, and not to return. You can create all the max level cap 50, time gearless servers you want, butIf someone wishes to have a classic EQ, they will need to create an entirely new game, with new surprises and new gear. That feeling of magic, myth and mystery that we all felt will only surface if we log in to the server and have no idea what to expect. We all know in our hearts that EQ classic is gone, some of us just need to be opened up in different ways before we finally accept it. And when we do finally accept it, perhaps the reality of things will fall into place better.

Sir Kane the Destroyer
ServerOP, Claws of Veeshan