Has anyone else noticed...

[Secrets]

...that every server seems to be offering:

1. A hub zone for people to start out in, and gate back to at any time
2. Epics at level 1.
3. Times whatever experience.
4. Spellscriber
5. Buffbot
6. Actual Bots
7. Insane stat items that disregard balance for Titanium-Era EQ
8. No drop flag removed
9. Lore flag removed
10. Free gear
11. Raids that do not scale to amount of people
12. Group content that people end up raiding
13. Solo content, with no incenitive for grouping it
14. Insane AA XP rate

Hell, I think I just described every custom server on the list, and if I advertised something like this, it would be the next best thing, because people have this mentality that more is better.

Does anyone see a problem with this? More isn't always better, especially when servers are tuned to EverQuest as it is in live, yet, people end up with +5000 HP on items, and content progression is out of whack, which leads to stressed serverops frantically rushing content, making subpar encounters almost every time, with no thought process involved for the encounter itself. There is the rare case where you make enough subpar content that your server survives and has a population, and you can focus on advanced content that way.

The mentality of serverops is more is good, as well. Nothing beats epics at level 1, especially when we're coding around 36 delay 6 damage short swords. It seems to be every server on the list, and I am quite sick of it. Nothing offers a unique gameplay experience from another server other than content.

Does anyone have any feedback on this? I've been curious to see what the community thinks about it for a while. I have not seen a custom server done something other than the aforementioned above, minus Shards, which is not a part of our community presently.

It would be very intriguing if someone started a project that was unique, ya know? None of the things mentioned above. A server with the feel of classic without the content of classic.

I would do it, but I cannot do it alone. In addition, I am not motivated enough to do something such as this. If a team of people assembled I would be more motivated to make this. I do not want to end up doing anything or everything alone. Everything should be a team effort, not an arguement or bickering like I see so often in the communities here.

And that lack of team effort often leads to unbalancing content. Nothing gets documented, everything gets put in. And that leads to Dev A making content with, for example +5 str for a tier 1 content NPC and Dev B makes a tier 2 content with +2 str, and the items are identical in stats besides that.

I could go on and on without naming servers, but a majority of them I have seen and been involved in, have done this.

My question that I mentioned above... Would anyone have any suggestions on how to prevent this from happening in so many of our private communities? Obviously, you cannot force people to change their ways, however you can influence them to modify them.

I just want to see some higher quality stuff, instead of the 'more is better' mentality. This is in no way attacking anyone, I am simply questioning how we can improve our community, and I believe that a discussion is the best way to do this.

[nightsta69]

Originally Posted by Secrets

...that every server seems to be offering:



Hell, I think I just described every custom server on the list, and if I advertised something like this, it would be the next best thing, because people have this mentality that more is better.

Does anyone see a problem with this? More isn't always better, especially when servers are tuned to EverQuest as it is in live, yet, people end up with +5000 HP on items, and content progression is out of whack, which leads to stressed serverops frantically rushing content, making subpar encounters almost every time, with no thought process involved for the encounter itself. There is the rare case where you make enough subpar content that your server survives and has a population, and you can focus on advanced content that way.

The mentality of serverops is more is good, as well. Nothing beats epics at level 1, especially when we're coding around 36 delay 6 damage short swords. It seems to be every server on the list, and I am quite sick of it. Nothing offers a unique gameplay experience from another server other than content.

Does anyone have any feedback on this? I've been curious to see what the community thinks about it for a while. I have not seen a custom server done something other than the aforementioned above, minus Shards, which is not a part of our community presently.

It would be very intriguing if someone started a project that was unique, ya know? None of the things mentioned above. A server with the feel of classic without the content of classic.

I would do it, but I cannot do it alone. In addition, I am not motivated enough to do something such as this. If a team of people assembled I would be more motivated to make this. I do not want to end up doing anything or everything alone. Everything should be a team effort, not an arguement or bickering like I see so often in the communities here.

And that lack of team effort often leads to unbalancing content. Nothing gets documented, everything gets put in. And that leads to Dev A making content with, for example +5 str for a tier 1 content NPC and Dev B makes a tier 2 content with +2 str, and the items are identical in stats besides that.

I could go on and on without naming servers, but a majority of them I have seen and been involved in, have done this.

My question that I mentioned above... Would anyone have any suggestions on how to prevent this from happening in so many of our private communities? Obviously, you cannot force people to change their ways, however you can influence them to modify them.

I just want to see some higher quality stuff, instead of the 'more is better' mentality. This is in no way attacking anyone, I am simply questioning how we can improve our community, and I believe that a discussion is the best way to do this.

everything you have mentioned above, I plan on avoiding. I am adding my own views, custom content, and such. but I honestly don't want to degrade the game to the point of first one to level x wins eq. I have alot of ideas that I am applying to my server, (if you haven't read the posts i've made around here), but I still want to preserve the essence and story line behind EQ. many of my customs don't even really enhance game play thru your character stats wise. they are more of giving you the self feeling of accomplishment as you progress in the world. my server will be mainly classic-progression, with my touch added to it. I love the EQ story line, and the lore behind it, and there are things from other games that I like (i'll reference WoW) such as the achievements, that i'm applying to enhance that stuff. I hate the fact of everything you've pretty much pointed out, and my goal is to avoid those at all costs. I know my server won't be the best, as i'm not the best coder in the world, nor will it be the fastest leveling, or greatest cotent. but it will be my own version of it, and I want to tell the EQ story from my point of view. I plan on using the instancing to my advantage to do mid to large scale raids, in zones including any normal zone you would see just running around. this will be a long while, as it is just me working on it, but *shrug* again then I know it'll be my creation.

[Ansley1]

My dream server is legit classic progression with spell scriber (i'm a lil lazy when it comes to finding spells) maybe #peqzone command (15min teleport command) because running around was fun when i hadn't seen every zone 100+ times. Then wipe after velious or luclin and start over.Maybe some custom mobs inline with velious era mobs/gear.

But yeah badass gear at low levels then to have a challenge the devs make mobs hit so hard and fast only evasive warriors can tank. All due to gear being nuts and easily aquired. Sitting around with 4 warriors rotating tanking trash when evasive is up isnt a challenge its stupid and boring.

Raping content is boring
Sitting LFG cause you dont 6box is boring
Zerging/Evasive tanking is boring

EQ is a fun game in itself, custom servers should just add to it. Not try to make it a whole new game imo

[ChaosSlayerZ]

To each his own.
I name one very decent custom server - Stormheaven comes up as a good example and a lot of thought and hard work put in to. Some of its parts- specially low end (1-50) feel a bit rushed, but its been worked on.

Personally I am currently working on my own ULTRA custom server (have been for 2 years now). Yeah its gonna be custom alright, but its hardly going to be an generic ride =P

As far as Shards of D go - yeah they did some very nice customization, but still have 2 major flaws: their client software is heavily obsolete and they unable to upgrade it (they only have access to GoD as latest expansion, and once they run out of zones - they are done for). Some features we have long coded on EMU - they can't even dream to have. And, whats important, despite all their custom content and custom server coding - all their classes do not really feel any different that they were on live (of course I am comparing to my own preferences, and to what I have in stores for my server =P)


"A server with the feel of classic without the content of classic." - coming up.. SOON =) No ETAs yet however (well maybe by new year) =P

few of my General Highlights:

-Alternative World Lore and layout
-Alternative/Redesigned zone content
-Alternative/Redesigned Classes, spells, pets, disciplines, and Class/Race combos
-Significant deity impact on most classes and gameplay
-Redesigned itemization
-Redesigned Crafting
-RP-encouraged gameplay
-Tier based progression
-Dozens of Story line based quests
-No Boxings/Bots allowed
-Solo and group/raid content

PS. Secrets, I may need some good guides when the time comes =P

[Ansley1]

A server with the feel of classic without the content of classic. That does sound pretty fun. Alot of work, but fun. Same zones different mobs new storyline different zone level progression. Changing EQ without changing what made EQ fun. Like a change of scenery or something.

[ChaosSlayerZ]

Originally Posted by Ansley1

A server with the feel of classic without the content of classic. That does sound pretty fun. Alot of work, but fun. Same zones different mobs new storyline different zone level progression. Changing EQ without changing what made EQ fun. Like a change of scenery or something.

I like to call it EQ-Alternative or EQ 3 =)

Perhaps you like to see my zone album I started to put together. Its far from been complete, but its been worked on

You can see it here

[Lillu]

It really depends on what your goal is with a custom server. custom servers overall are LOTS of work. you can't really imagine till you have your own. :P
You just want to share your vision of eq with outhers? you want to create a popular server? you want to be unique? you want something for a long term or just for some quick fame?

if you want a popular custom server with high population, you have to offer easy progression, else you'll be stuck with low population (regardless if you make quality and unique content).

don't get me wrong tho, I refuse to offer easy progression, it takes away the fun sharing your vision of eq with others and creating something unique and quality is more fun than anything else, so I think I see were you are coming from Secrets. but anyone starting a custom server should be aware that it's not only about quality and original ideas.. sadly.

[Ansley1]

Custom Classes bases on diety seems pretty cool Warlocks and Savages and whatnot

[Shin Noir]

Well, at least for me, PEQ and many 1x servers are kind of a turn off because if I wanted to play legit EQ, I'd go play legit EQ. There are many things incomplete with the source (I play a bard typically, do I need to say more?) so investing a lot of time seems meaningless. I think PEQ is a great project because it creates an awesome foundation for those who want to make a branch off the original-based design, and for those who want to try to experience EQ for non-monthly fees can do so.

but if you ask me, original EQ wasn't that greatly designed. It was expansive, interesting, and big.. But it was never greatly designed. If I found a server where someone took the reigns and recreated a new realm of Everquest, taking the original 'old' feel and melding a new storyline and progression with their own rendition of it, not just making it easier for players, or trying to recreate something we all already know where everything spawns and exact progression for ideal leveling etc etc, but instead making it unique, a new design, I would have fun. Sadly I can't find a server that does this without them thinking of making mudflation all over. Bigger, better stats != more powerful if you beef up mobs too. All you do is give a false sense of improvement, and screw up balance even more than it already is. :/

But if they did things to challenge players, not by boring them to death with a grind fest, but having complex and interesting puzzles to solve, bosses that you will guarentee wipe to not because it hits ridiculously hard, but has a complex order of coordination in order to pull it off, stuff like that.. is what I enjoy. A crafting system that's hidden away for people to unveil, new quests that aren't just task based but actually will be left unsolved for a while...

I love to explore, discover, and learn about new things. New spells, new visions are welcomed to me, because like I said, if I wanted to play typical yet another EQ, I'd jump on live or PEQ. :/

Hell, I'm still waiting for someone to make the begging skill worth something. Or recreation of tradeskills. The best I can do is make play around servers and see what I can expand in the source just for fun. :/

@ the teleports and such, after Planes of Power this became common place with PoK, so to me servers that have teleporters or buffbots I just think they're doing what PoP was trying to do anyways, hold people's hands. I absolutely hate PoK and frankly I think EQ ended around Velious, the vision becoming some oddity of mudflation and "how can we make people's life easier? How about a guild hall you hand gems to and set where it portals to?"

But at the same time, the servers like Project 1999 that are recreating the original feel don't really attract me. It's a recreation of an idea that is ~10 years old, it will be full of content everyone already knows, so there is nothing to really gain except to take a ride down memory lane. Would much rather experience something new. :/

The Hidden Forest I enjoyed because the admins weren't afraid to aggressively try to change things. They took what has been established and twisted and turned it into something else. There's areas I don't neccessarilly agree with on their philosophies, but at least they're doing something different.

Stormhaven I haven't played much, but I have enjoyed the bit I've played it. It's because they are taking EQ to a new route. For good or worse, at least it's new.

EZ 4x server I haven't played too seriously, it was a bit too comical for me in the progression and general gearing.

Though of those 3 servers, my biggest concern is how will end game content shape up? It's one thing to make something new, it's another to keep it interesting at end game (where you end up and spend most of your time)..

Instead of having a staff of web designers, programmers, and in game help, I'd love to see more staff dedicated to creating a balanced server system. A server that parses each class and does balancing based on test results, formulas, and curves things in a custom fashion according to their findings. Would love that.

[blackdragonsdg]

The idea of what is unique or custom varies from person to person. If you have a grand vision of a unique server then implement the idea so we all can see it. Creating custom content is a ton of work and it is not as simple as it may seem as myself and many others have discovered the hard way.
Yes, there are similarities among a lot of servers but maybe some of the things you described as being common place are there for a reason. Spellscribers are not needed on some servers due to their high population but on lower population servers finding any specific spell would be a considerable task if not near impossible, malo and mala are good examples of this problem. No drop and lore flagging are situational and SOE used those very badly. I don’t see anything wrong with people finding a piece of gear and then deciding they want to give it to one of their other toons. Yes it can be unbalancing but it can also be fun.
Buffbots are a good and bad thing at the same time. The way they are implemented in most cases where they cast one set of buffs for all level ranges is a very bad idea but if the script is adjusted to be tier based for say 1-5, 6-10 and so forth then the biggest negative surrounding the buffbot would be severely diminished. The same idea needs to be applied to exp mods which is why several people had made requests for tier based exp mods. A positive exp mod is not needed at low levels but levels 50-59 is a much different story.
I don’t like the idea of free gear or excessively common gear drops either but others may disagree. Epic 1.0’s are subpar for most of the EQ game world, enough said. The same thing can be said about Epic 1.5’s. Epic 2.0’s only good for a while and not worth the time or effort it took to get them on live. If they are upgraded then yes they should be hard to get but otherwise I will stick with my original statement.
Solo, group and raid content must have a balance and it cannot be all one way. Using the live version of Crystallos as an example, the common everyday folks would have considered the key quest as raid content but at the same time it was group content to others. This type of thing has a lot to do with the experience level of the players and not so much to do with the number of players.
SoF disregards the balance for most of EQ but does that mean it was a bad idea to make? Content must get harder or more challenging and items but get better otherwise progression merges with bland all is lost. More is not always better but less is not either. Replacing more content with creative content is probably ideal but not always practical or possible.

[Nagus69]

On THF we try to balance things out.

Sure, our server has Epic wielding Orcs but imo 1.0 Epics are absolute borderline in quality. People want the big stats on their toys.

Then again our 1.5 quest is a totally different story. You will have to get your stuff sorted or you will not get it. The 2.0 quest actually earns the name epic as it is rather long (unlike some servers were you kill 1 mob and loot it )

We want to make it easy and get rid of tedious tasks like spells, but on the other hand our Spellscriber only scribes up to lev69. Lev70 spells and beyond are drops from exp mobs. Lev70 Ancient Spells which are much stronger than the Live versions drop off of Raid mobs. The list goes on.

I am also trying to balance classes out - on our Server also Druids and Shaman can heal on raids. Sure no CH, but they have much better patch heals than on Live(Cle also got a better heal). SK and PAL get rare items with long recast Defense Disc. They are not worthless on raids. Each caster has a much stronger pet compared to Live to make up for the power that melee gain with weapons. The benefits of a custom server. Everyone can feel usefull without the restraints which original EQ dictates.

You make it too hard and people will not play on your server. You make it too easy and people will play but also leave again shortly because they already reached everything first try. It's not easy to find the right balance between challenge and spoon feeding.

We only have about 40-50 people playing during prime time but since it's almost always the same players shows that we are taking the right approach.

[trevius]

I think if all custom servers had a decent sized team and had a year or so to create the server before opening it to the public, you might see more of what you are wanting to see, Secrets.

You have to keep in mind that creating content 1 or 2 zones at a time is no easy task to create perfect balance for. To do it right, stuff like loot would have to be fully planned out from starting a new character to the end-game content before any actual loot tables were made for the custom zones. It would probably be a good idea to get at least a rough plan done all of the way up before starting it anyway, but many people starting a server don't think about that before-hand.

I am sure that servers are not much fun to develop for until the are open to players. Also, developing a full server worth of content before opening it up is sure to have very unbalanced content loaded with tons of bugs and issues that will need to be resolved later, if they are ever resolved/found at all. So, many people like to get their server open as soon as possible. That is what I did with Storm Haven. Doing that means content has to be done quickly, so you are likely to see freebies where there should be quest for such items, and you are likely to see content that is very similar to the standard PEQ DB other than maybe a few changed factors (mostly loot tables).

I didn't know anything about running a server when I first created Storm Haven. If I had it all to do over again, I am sure I would have it planned out much better before hand and do quite a few things differently. The good thing is that now that we have enough content to keep people busy for quite a while before they run out of things to do, now we can start going back and filling in the stuff that should have been there from the start. I have even considered doing some major adjustments like cutting item stats data-base-wide by certain percentages. Even though some balance issues like loot being too good or mobs hitting too hard are things that can be tough to adjust after the fact, it is all still a possibility if the change is worth it.

As for your list of what all custom servers have goes, I think you are generalizing way too much. That list may be a compilation of what you have seen on all custom servers, but Storm Haven for example only fits a few of the things on that list. Heck, I think every EQEmu server there is has increased Exp Rates, even PEQ. Also, until their population got so high and lag was reduced, they even had a buffbot I believe.

If EQEmu servers had as many players as EQLive, many of the common things you see on custom servers wouldn't be required, but since player numbers are low in comparison, certain things have to be compensated for. I am sure there are plenty of other things that I could add to your list, and many of those things originated from the custom server named Zebuxoruk as far as I know. I played there and I noted the things that I really liked from the server and incorporated some of them into mine. I am sure others had played there or on one of the other servers that have similar features and used what they liked best as well. If you play somewhere and find something custom that you really like and is a good idea that makes sense and adds to fun, I don't see why not to use it on your own server :P I know some servers have had ideas inspired from playing on Storm Haven as well (clicky banker summon, de-leveling, etc). I think part of creating a custom server is just figuring out the features you have seen and would like to use on your server, and then coming up with your own unique ideas to add to that and make it your own.

It would be really cool if all of the custom server owners could start a project together and have a decent size team to create tons of great content the right way. Unfortunately, I highly doubt anything like that would ever happen. Even if it did happen, it would be an absolute nightmare to manage it. All of the owners wanting to do things their way and not agreeing with each other and different levels of quality work and so on. The only way it could possible work at all would be having some seriously well-thought-out plans before anything at all was created. Even then, I would just imagine constant conflict in a project like that.

Secrets, what happened to the "The Divide" server project that you were working on with some guys? Hopefully you can find something to do that you enjoy soon so you aren't moping around trolling the custom server owners by generalizing them with a negative overtone :P Looks like you got quite a few custom server devs to pop in this thread to defend themselves and their projects. Honestly, I take a bit of offense to your post and I wouldn't be surprised if other custom server owners do as well.

[Shin Noir]

Most of the stuff you mention is pretty common place in nearly all forms of private servers.
Look at RO, L2, WoW even.. you'll see the private servers full of buff bots, fast warpers, etc etc. You can usually tell when a server is "for the people" or not by how easy it is to get started. :P

[Davood]

you can complain all you want; but just like the marketplace, it's the players that determine if your server concept is successful and they decide by choosing to log in to your server or not; im happy with my tiny handful of regular players. my server is mostly for me to learn more about sql , and over the last 2 years i've been creating my own private changes to the game which I merge with every peq release.

I don't get paid for my work, and the only thing I get out of it is more learning, so even if there are 5 people on my server on average over the course of a week, I am still happy.

[Davood]

Anyways all that aside; I'd love to work with other people to develop my server into something .. more; however I am an island in this as my RL Friends and family don't even know what EQ is and I have been mostly a lurker in the eqemu community.