Populating newer zones..?

[bobbydole]

Originally Posted by Angelox

Don't get your hopes up with the "packet collectors" - at best, I would say they give you starting point on the given zone you're working on.
After I have made a full list of all named and printed it out - I then dump Cavedudes data for that zone and merge it into my DB. This gives me a "head start".

Then I start to make the named mobs ; I get their stats from whats posted at allakhazam, and looking at what other mobs in the zone are and what they do.

Edit;
If you do decide to work on a zone, tell us which zone, so we can choose another or you make sure no one else is already building it.

thanks for the tips!

All I was really looking for was a head start from the packet collections. I really didn't want to have to manually input all the mobs in the zone. I actually did get eqextractor to work, i can some info out of a pf file and put it into a text file. however I'm not sure how helpful it will be since most of the files I was looking at are actually text files and not pf files. I just happened to click the pf file, so I thought they were all pf files. Anyway hopefully i can start on getting some zone going tonight.

btw happy birthday!

[Angelox]

Originally Posted by bobbydole

thanks for the tips!

All I was really looking for was a head start from the packet collections. I really didn't want to have to manually input all the mobs in the zone. I actually did get eqextractor to work, i can some info out of a pf file and put it into a text file. however I'm not sure how helpful it will be since most of the files I was looking at are actually text files and not pf files. I just happened to click the pf file, so I thought they were all pf files. Anyway hopefully i can start on getting some zone going tonight.

btw happy birthday!

Cavedude has most of these zones populated - I don't know how he did it, but what ever he has, is very EQLive-Like", just unfinished. I suspect he may have use packet collectors also. This is why I start with his work.
Fact of the matter is, if you look good at the PEQ database you will see "left-over" data in there, that matches perfectly with the CaveDude DB.
For example, when I dumped npcs from cavedudes to to my DB (which was started with PEQ), the loots were already there, just like the ones in Cavedudes.
I think what PEQ did to start was, use Cavedudes as a base to start. I don't think starting from scratch (packet-collectors) is really not needed -these other people already have done that and have the data. what could be left for a packet collector to get in a zone? Named Mob? it could take days for just one of those to spawn - I'd rather find mine at allakhazam.
I dunno, maybe I have the wrong idea on what a packet collector does

[John Adams]

Bobby is definitely obsessed with the packet collector data, even though I have said numerous times that Cavedude has plenty o' data, just not tuned (or named mobs in some cases). I cannot say anymore without repeating myself.

I personally thing since the Emu has been developed up to Luclin (really), that all the data needed is in place in PEQ. What more is needed? Well, except to spawn some PoP gods and solo them just for fun.

[bobbydole]

Ooh come on.. I'm not totally obsessed! Well.. ok maybe.. a little bit. but really all I want is to populate the new zones as close to live as I can get it. I would rather have a system that automates most of the tedious stuff, and can get the data directly from live rather then based on my memory. There are some zones that i would like populated but I've never been there..

[fathernitwit]

the packet collector still works with live, but eqextractor has not been updated to understand the packets... the only reason it has not been updated is that nobody has done enough packet collecting to make it worth updating... I have said it many times: that as soon as somebody makes it worth my while to update it, I will update it. That likely means dozens of good packet collects.

as for building from collects, all of the tools needed are available. eqextractor understands all of the binary logs on peq's site. eqbuilder understands the eqextractor output and the older text based logs. etc... thats exactly how cavedude did it.

I will state that it would be crazy IMO to not use collected data to initially spawn a zone. If you ask me, this is the primary reason that PEQs database still exists when so many other (hand spawned) ones do not... people making shit up from memory just dosent work, especially on a large scale, so many intricacies that make the world emmersive are lost. PEQ exists on the foundation of strict controls on modifications, such that somebody who thinks they remember something a certain way does not screw up the database without doing their homework first. This was a very significant problem for the older databases.

As for PEQ... I will start with a general philosophy item, which is that we have not just dumpped all the packet logs into the database as fast as we can for a very specific reason... that reason being that the tools used to build the world are constantly evolving... and very rarely does an automated tool work on a zone once it has had any sort manual tuning (the manual mods generally get lost). Further, more packet collects get collected for zones, and there are no tools to date which are capable of merging a new packet collect into an existing database. eqbuilder must be given everything all at once and then once that zone is built, its manual from that point on. PEQ goes in small increments to minimize the impact of these things.

As for PEQ not being responsive, the truth of it falls into two categories. One is that the team is small and busy, and we do not get to the forums as much as we should. But the overwhelming issue with people helping on PEQ is that people seem to think they will be given direct database access. The fact of the matter is that the PEQ database is built with very high quality standards, and until a person has proven themself capible of maintaining these standards, there is no hope of obtaining database access. The fact of the matter is that the only way to contribute to the project is by posting SQL updates to the database. I have put in a lot of time to make EQEmu and PEQ Editor log all its updates to files for exactly this reason... but at the end of the day, there hasnt been more than a handfull of SQL fixes to any PEQ release in many months.. (BTW Angelox, as far as I can tell, you never posted anything about the database on the PEQ forums, only about PEQ editor)

I am not really interested in hearing follow up comments about PEQ on this topic, so dont bother. PEQ will continue to move forward at its own pace, and hopefully there will be enough of a trickle of people willing to contribute within the bounds of the PEQ model to keep the project alive. Maybe times have changed enough that this model cannot survive, time will tell.

[eq4me]

What is the harm in distributing semi regular updates? As it is now you always have to wonder if some bug or discrepancy in the three month old luclin rc1 release isnt already fixed and you are just wasting your time doing it again. I bet that more people would come forward with contributions if you would post peq updates as often as you do EQEmu updates. I certainly would.

[Angelox]

Originally Posted by eq4me

What is the harm in distributing semi regular updates? As it is now you always have to wonder if some bug or discrepancy in the three month old luclin rc1 release isnt already fixed and you are just wasting your time doing it again. I bet that more people would come forward with contributions if you would post peq updates as often as you do EQEmu updates. I certainly would.

I agree with you 100% here - And I'm sure I'm not alone.

[Angelox]

Originally Posted by fathernitwit

The fact of the matter is that the only way to contribute to the project is by posting SQL updates to the database. I have put in a lot of time to make EQEmu and PEQ Editor log all its updates to files for exactly this reason... but at the end of the day, there hasnt been more than a handfull of SQL fixes to any PEQ release in many months.

Probably, the reason for this is because your PEQ editor is an extremly slow process. This is ok for "quick" single fixes, but not for someone who is seriously zone-spawning.
In my case, I use three of GeorgeS's editors, PEQ Editor, MySQL Query Browser, and even the MySQL text shell; what ever is fastest for what I am doing at the moment, is what I use. So, if all I can provide you is entries from the PEQ-Editor logs, this would be incomplete.
Don't get me wrong; PEQ Editor, is excellent and very needed, but had I depended only on the PEQ editor, I would have given up a long time ago.
Also, It appears to me PEQ Editor has not posted an update since last Febuary. If you use the PEQ Editor that is posted for download, it will not work right (if not at all) with the latest Database. I stupidly hacked into it and got it half-assed running (took me weeks since I had to learn some PHP) - Then one day I "blundered" into the CVS and realized the updates were there. Now, this was just me - imagine all the other new-bees that downloaded PEQ Editor 1.0, got frustrated and gave it up? regardless what the reasons are, I got put under the impression you all had lost interest, or maybe did not want to be bothered.

If you want new fish on your side of the pond, you have to throw out some fish-food once in a while.

Originally Posted by fathernitwit

(BTW Angelox, as far as I can tell, you never posted anything about the database on the PEQ forums, only about PEQ editor)

That's why I said it; look at the replys I got - but I see now that PEQ Editor is not part of the PEQ database crew. I had given up on the whole PEQ forum after that.

[John Adams]

Being the little ray of sunshine that I am, I will say -- I totally dig the philosophies of PEQ, it's charter and goals. There needs to be one true-blue-EQ, so to speak. Others will always customize, which is the great thing about this Emulator. I don't know of too many people thumbing their noses at the core database project, aside from those who care little about EQ -> Luclin progression and only want PoP+ content (maybe they all played older content to death and want to use the Emulator to see the rest?).

On the topic of eqextrator building entire zones from collects - would a tool like Zephyr's zone comparison script help with comparing existing PEQ/Database_001 with new collects? Might cut down on some of the manual effort.

Cheers, FNW. PEQ is very much appreciated.