New Years resolutions anyone?

[Zengez]

Originally Posted by bufferofnewbies

It's also a good point to note that quite a few of us are only here for short periods of time on and off. I have been a member of this community for quite a bit longer than I have been posting these updates, but as is always in life: I get burned out/ distracted and fail to return for months or so.

Amen to this on so very many levels, and this is absolutely the primary reason I haven't already tried to join the PEQ team, because I simply am not confident that I won't gravitate elsewhere by choice or necessity for a long stretch of time...

But let me just say that I think several people may have taken my ... fervor... a little too intensly. I think what this project has accomplished is mind boggling, and the database as of now is remarkable and advancing in good order, or from what I hear.

I am also quite please Cavedude is the leader of the PEQ crew, he did alot of good work on many database things that I've toyed with and I have great respect for him and what he has done.

Read above and replace Cavedude with Angelox; you are right up there with the others despite what you say.

Now to the point, I post what I did, and am, because I think that it is a very largely held belief right now that nobody wants to say. As such, I took it upon myself to be the voice of those that wouldn't speak up and bring the issue front and center. Many of the topics I myself wholeheartedly agree with, such as at least some form of public release or wider release of a rougher database to generate interest...

However some of what I have said I don't necessarily wholeheartedly agree with but I thought it needed to be said, so that we had a discussion on exactly why things are the way they are, and what is/is not changing. Thus far I think I've accomplished what I set out to do and that is why I'm writing this now... This isn't a retraction by any means but I just wanted to make my postition clear so everyone doesn't think I'm being negative on the project or those that are pushing it, it's quite the opposite.

All that being said, let me continue with the topic at hand however. I guess all I'd really want to see is an explicit example of what you guys think can be accomplished under the parameters you have set, by those of us outside the team with access to the database... Here's what I see and I'm sure there has got to be more to it otherwise this wouldn't be such a debateable issue;

Ok, Under the current setting;

1) People log into PEQ and get an idea for how the world works, keeping in mind live and whatnot, jot down any issues they may have and anything they notice lacking for content and whatnot.
2) People then go code crawling and figure out how the database really works by posting questions, and looking at the newest released database (something in favor of this, the database will be clean and thus not quite as confusing to the newbins)
3) Once the person has a feel for how things work and what goes where, they proceed to fix the things they noticed were missing/off and then post fixes in the forums explaining what/why/how/where/etc...
4) Rinse and repeate.

Ok, perfectly good in theory, now here's what I see under an opened release of the database:

1) Exact same thing as above as none of that would be thus unavailible due to having more things to work with...
2) Added, people could look through the zones they are most familiar with... those that went through Wall of Slaughter all the time would be able to see the progression with Wall of Slaughter instead of being limited to the velious or newer zones, thus they would be able to work with what they know, and have a better understanding/refference for picking out what is missing/off...
3) with more familiarity comes more interesting in fixing it, which in result leads to more activity and posts with updates, which then fixes the database faster and more efficiently.
4) potential downside is the newbins that try and fail and flood people with support/bad ideas/ etc... See above with the liason/intermediary for answer.


Ok, so is that it? What else am I missing here? Let the talk continue!


PS:: bufferofnewbies, I actually was extatic to hear about the door update because I liked to close doors on my friends to mess them up when we played hide and seek in empty PoK... So I was speaking of generality more than anything else, and like I said, nothing but respect

[Angelox]

Building a zone is like painting a picture; at one time, when my dad was in the military, we lived in Spain, and, my dad used to oil paint for a hobby. Not because he's my dad, but he did beautiful landscape paintings - he never went to no "art school", just had the talent. My dad also has a fearful temper (and the muscle to back it up), and when he had a tantrum - everyone stayed clear else you loose your head. I preferred to hide under the bed, and watch him stomp by breaking things. Needless to say, one day all the hundreds of oil-paintings got torn up and trashed, during a temper-tantrum - they were all lost.
Anyways, when my dad used to paint , he always carried around some kind of "charcoal pencil" and a sketch-pad. He would pull up to a view, decide what he wanted to paint, and make a sketch of it with his pad. His sketches were incredibly nice too ( I would have settled for those even). Then he'd go home and start painting the final version, with the sketch as a sort of outline.
What I'm getting at is, the zones here are really a piece of modern-day artwork. We have all the pieces ( packets collected), and a "sketch" of it. But it is all unfinished; the detail is incomplete.
I'm not talking about AA's, or haste, or skill points and what not. I mean the true, picture" of the zone with all of its detail.
When I take my character to a zone, I look for all the detailed mechanics that make this zone; Drops, spawns, rare spawns, ultra-rare spawns, grids, quests, objects, etc. I want the zone to "feel" like the real Everquest. If a Hill giant drops 30pp on live, then i want him to drop that too in my zone - and if an orc drops 2sp, then that's what he should drop. Some mobs like Quilmane and Bilge, are "legendary" rare spawns. And to me, if you have stuff like Quilmane flopping around the zone all the time - you just ruined a major part of South Karana. In Butcher; Corflunk - he's not supposed to be just standing there like some big "dork" (scratching his ass) and even less the Fabled version. He was a sought out spawn and had a path. Fabled versions of spawns are supposed to be some of the rarest spawns in the game. How is ToFS like with no working keys?
We need to attract people that really want to play, we need to make a game out of this. We need to make the zones "playable". You have to ask yourself, will I want to play in this zone too?, does everything look/feel right?
To be honest with you, I think the custom zones are not helping this situation, but thats another debate. When I first saw the log-in server, I expected to see a string of servers that had a plan; all the same zones with all the same content.
There probably should be rules; no cheating, no this, no that, etc. New zones should be opened in all servers at the same time. Maybe, we should have two areas (at the login) for EQ, one labled "custom", where everything goes - then the real servers where things are working towards a goal. Blizzard has "free-for-all servers like this, then they have the servers where there is rules.

[John Adams]

Hah Zengez, it might be a good idea to not insult those who do help out and post updates here. Even though you don't mean it, posting that "hand-spawns and random useless door fixes" is probably going to result in those people not wanting to help anymore. Pretty sure this, coupled with feeling ignored, causes that self-termination and abandonment we see here from otherwise helpful people monthly.

I still fully support packet collecting and extraction. IMO, this is the only true way to get accurate data (but that does not mean I do not enjoy anyone's hand-spawned efforts!) However, since we cannot seem to get the tools updated to the current Live expansion, what can we do? Nothing. Hand Spawn.

If someone IS working on the tools, might I make a recommendation to wait til after Feb 15th or so. I am confident SOE will poop out yet another packet-modifying expansion. I know tools like Magelo are incompatible for a few weeks after an expansion. Is it possible to sniff out what *they* to to match the new packets? Doesn't appear to be illegal for them to do, and I doubt SOE hands them the new structures each release.

[Windcatcher]

I've never been a fan of New Year's resolutions, as they inevitably wind up being unfulfilled. However, my hope is that 2007 will be the year we release our own client, with our own content: our own zones, mobs, spells items, etc. I want to see 2007 as the year that people can begin running 300+ servers again (like Dawntide) without fear of ever being shut down. When Dawntide was shut down everyone was talking about how it had gotten too big, it was too good for SOE to allow to exist, and they shut it down. Well, they don't get to do that again. That's what I resolved when they took that action. We will release a client this year. We will have our own creature models, our own zones, our own spell list, our own gods and lore, everything (and you won't see "eq" or any of their names anywhere in there so no back-handed trademark actions will be possible). It will be our own game, but it will also be EQEmu (actually EQEmu+ as we'll put in provisions for servers to set their own gods list, available race/class combos, etc.) That's what I have planned for 2007, and I predict that 2008 will be the year of 300+ servers once again.

[bufferofnewbies]

Originally Posted by Windcatcher

I've never been a fan of New Year's resolutions, as they inevitably wind up being unfulfilled.

In 1993, I made a New Year's resolution to never make another New Year's Resolution. I have yet to break it...

[John Adams]

Originally Posted by Windcatcher

That's what I have planned for 2007, and I predict that 2008 will be the year of 300+ servers once again.

That is an amazing resolution you almost didn't make, Wind... Very exciting stuff. I wasn't aware the EQEmu project was heading that way - though it makes sense that it would.

We're all pretty confident at this point that SOE will *eventually* shut EQLive down. It's populations are so low, it's almost sad.

[Angelox]

I just thought of this thread from last year and was looking over it. Seems we did get a few things going for the better;
PEQ Database really is a "public" database - always being updated and posted to the public. With Cavedude in charge, anyone can contact him and become part of that portion of the project.
Database itself still has very much work undone - even the expansions said to be "done" really are not; For example, I was playing in lake of Ill Omen, when I realized all the missing roamers and mobs in the old "stomping grounds" (have since been adding there).
Probably the most complete expansion would be the PEQ LoY one, and that's because we all came together on that one.

Loggin Server; Same' ol - same' ol. Closed source, propertied, and preferred membership remains exclusive to a few of the "chosen" ones. At least, If a server can stay up and running over a few months (or a year even), it should be offered the preferred server listing. We are ALL part of the project and ALL deserve
proper treatment.

Source; I really like and appreciate all the work done here. And the way any new (worthwhile) ideas posted by anyone (DEV or not) gets quickly moved into it.

I wonder whats in store for 2008?

[sdabbs65]

I disagree,
Preferred memberships should only be for the LARGE POPULATION
servers not for just anyone who can throw up a server.
but it's not my choice and I never really cared about it anyway since
everyones server is seen, it don;t really matter if some are green and I doubt it's going to make anyone pick it over a really well built small server thats on the bottom of the list.
I think what really matters is Gameplay and is the Server fun to play on even if your solo.
people complain about my server all the time just go read my boards.
but the answer back is always the same....
what are you doing to help make it better ??? nothing ...then shutup.
thats my 2 cents..