Some thoughts on XP, Drops, etc.

[cavedude]

I have to respectfully disagree on most points. Now, I am using Grand Creation as a example. We have decent numbers, the average on at a time is around 60. To be truthful, for any emulated server (save Mangos or Antrix) those are pretty good numbers. We offer no free items or spells, no zone commands, etc. About the only thing we do offer are your bot vendors on PoK. Since that does cost the player currency, and it gets around the lack of player buffers I don't consider that a real freebie.

The main player type I find on PEQ are the hardcore players. They know the game well, and they enjoy playing it, even if they've done the same thing over and over again. To them, there is still fun and adventure. EQEmu is no longer the static mess it used to be. There are variables and surprises that keep players on their toes, and force them to use proper strategy. The great thing about this from a development standpoint is these players like things exactly the way they were on Live, and they have no problem offering suggestions or reporting bugs to allow us to make that so. I don't think the EQEmu community as a whole realizes how much work we put into making event scripts or raid events as live like as possible. We don't just recreate the mobs and loot. We attempt to recreate the strategy, the whole experience. Perhaps we bump the XP and loot a bit, but that in no way makes the game easy. I'm constantly nerfing things I feel are too easy, I know players that have been trying to get their hands on the same spell for weeks, even months at a time, PEQ currently has 400 player corpses in the world. The player base I mainly deal with loves that stuff!

I don't feel any work done on the source or in the db is a waste of time at all. There is still a long long list of bugs, missing features, balance issues, etc that need to be ironed out. If anything, we can call it for prosperity sake. The main point of the project is to create EverQuest so we will be able to play it forever, long after Sony has pulled the plug. That's also why I am a huge fan of creating a pure classic server. Hell, I'd love to create a server package for each expansion, using the proper client at the time for no other reason but simply to have it. The other reasons I put so much work into PEQ is for personal gain. Some people collect coins, I build Norrath. Lastly, and most importantly for me, I enjoy building the database for the players I mentioned above, those who enjoy playing EverQuest and appreciate the work all the devels put into it.

[Zaknoir]

I have created a few servers for a local group of friends and such. A couple in particular come to mind that want to have the best gear, level 60 and be able to run around and kill all the bosses.
Then what!!!

Everquest is a great game. It beats being led by the nose in games like wow and LoTR. Yes their graphics are better, and have some nice features, but EQ gives you that anticipation of what will the next guy drop or man my gear sucks and am I big enough to handle OOT yet.

Ya have to have the feeling of "working" for it, and when you get it, sit back in your computer easy chair and smile.

My two cents worth.

[CrabClaw]

Originally Posted by cavedude

...The main point of the project is to create EverQuest so we will be able to play it forever, long after Sony has pulled the plug.....

Yes!

Classic is awesome! I feel the main trunk of any emulator though is to get as many of the features hooked up as possible. Then people can use that a base to come up with any flavor they want, fun-server, classic, FFA PvP or whatever. So many people had played this game for so many reasons it's far better to get the as much of the game content working and let people tailor it their own way from there. Even better if the features could be turned on/off in the settings table too. Even Mangos servers are set up with this variety as well.

I love tradeskilling, hunting for those elusive mats and sharing what I make with other players. Don't forget all the neat quests too. I also like having fun with the other things they have in the game and look forward to one day messing around with LDoNs, monster shrouds and missions, earning leadership AAs, the quest tasks and all the other stuff I wanted to try on live but was left behind in the next x-pac release. EQ is a lot like a melting pot of playstyles and a *huge* toybox, but I feel the whole she'bang should be inclusive as a base.

Some hot blooded people love action oriented Zek-PvP, some rugged types like to play classic survival mode, some players are looking for their own 'gated community' to play a live-like game without all the smacktards, ubers and farmers you get on live, some want to create whole new experiences using the game as an artists pallet, and some like to kick back and explore places you could never visit without 36-72 peons along.

((I know, in my many, many years of being a part of this project I have done all that.))

This is my Mitt Romney response, but I feel more people are attracted to a project the more inclusive the setup is. So yes, I feel a main trunk live-like database should be maintained along with a classic one as well (Angel's DB does this very well. BTW , but I try to maintain both). As for the drops, XPs, and 'game settings' stuff, I think they are a more personal preference.

[Ueguvil]

I also disagree.

MMOs are all about accomplishment. If a server lets players summon items and #level, then in reality there is no difference between an uber geared lvl 65 and a lvl 1 with cloth armor on that server. It's when it takes some time to get there, like on PEQ, that it becomes meaningful.

Yes players might log on to Joe's semi-legit server, but once they realize that from the start there is absolutely nothing they can do on there to advance their characters from the others, they'll leave. Hopefully instead of just outright quitting Eqemu they'll find their way to a legit server.

[John Adams]

I am so sick of hearing the tag "Classic" I am about to puke on my shirt. Seriously. This is getting really, really tiresome to read in every f'n post, guys. This emulator is written in such a way that you, the admin, can do any stinking thing you want with it -- including create your own worlds/zones from the ground up!! Who else offers that? Talk to me about unique experiences? How "EQ" is it to log into a new server who's admin just spent 6+ mos in OpenZone creating an entirely new experience? Most of the stodgy old farts around here turn their nose up at anything that isn't exactly like it was on Day 1. Screw that. I'm just so tired of hearing about "classic". It's dead. Move on.

Admins -- make your servers soloable. Make your servers single-group raid content. Move things around in a zone. Change the quests. Add custom items. Create an entirely new zone and surprise your population with something other than East Commons (c) SOE 1999-2007 when they zone in.

FFS people. You will NOT play an EQ Classic game like it was when the game was first released. You will NOT run at 1.0 speed from Freeport to Qeynos and think it's awesome. You will NOT think CRs to South Karana are "the shit old sk00l roXxOrz" when you forget you are bound in GFay and no one is around to transport you there. I am truly aghast by the delusions here.

No offense to Angelox, because I do understand fully where his heart is for EQ. But these are the days of the Buried Sea, not Kunark. Get the emulator to Emulate something in the last 5 years of expansions, then worry about whether someone can #summon an item or not and ruin the mystique.

[Sakrateri]

You will NOT run at 1.0 speed from Freeport to Qeynos and think it's awesome. You will NOT think CRs to South Karana are "the shit old sk00l roXxOrz" when you forget you are bound in GFay and no one is around to transport you there.

Errrr.......Umm........thats exactly how I play my OWN toons on my OWN server and it does roXx0rz for me

[John Adams]

I was speaking to the huddles masses, not the occasional sociopath.

~runs~

[Jonathan5]

Originally Posted by John Adams

I am so sick of hearing the tag "Classic" I am about to puke on my shirt. Seriously. This is getting really, really tiresome to read in every f'n post, guys. This emulator is written in such a way that you, the admin, can do any stinking thing you want with it -- including create your own worlds/zones from the ground up!! Who else offers that? Talk to me about unique experiences? How "EQ" is it to log into a new server who's admin just spent 6+ mos in OpenZone creating an entirely new experience? Most of the stodgy old farts around here turn their nose up at anything that isn't exactly like it was on Day 1. Screw that. I'm just so tired of hearing about "classic". It's dead. Move on.

Admins -- make your servers soloable. Make your servers single-group raid content. Move things around in a zone. Change the quests. Add custom items. Create an entirely new zone and surprise your population with something other than East Commons (c) SOE 1999-2007 when they zone in.

FFS people. You will NOT play an EQ Classic game like it was when the game was first released. You will NOT run at 1.0 speed from Freeport to Qeynos and think it's awesome. You will NOT think CRs to South Karana are "the shit old sk00l roXxOrz" when you forget you are bound in GFay and no one is around to transport you there. I am truly aghast by the delusions here.

No offense to Angelox, because I do understand fully where his heart is for EQ. But these are the days of the Buried Sea, not Kunark. Get the emulator to Emulate something in the last 5 years of expansions, then worry about whether someone can #summon an item or not and ruin the mystique.

Whoa there, whoa there.

[Wizzel]

Originally Posted by John Adams

I am so sick of hearing the tag "Classic" I am about to puke on my shirt. Seriously. This is getting really, really tiresome to read in every f'n post, guys. This emulator is written in such a way that you, the admin, can do any stinking thing you want with it -- including create your own worlds/zones from the ground up!! Who else offers that? Talk to me about unique experiences? How "EQ" is it to log into a new server who's admin just spent 6+ mos in OpenZone creating an entirely new experience? Most of the stodgy old farts around here turn their nose up at anything that isn't exactly like it was on Day 1. Screw that. I'm just so tired of hearing about "classic". It's dead. Move on.

Admins -- make your servers soloable. Make your servers single-group raid content. Move things around in a zone. Change the quests. Add custom items. Create an entirely new zone and surprise your population with something other than East Commons (c) SOE 1999-2007 when they zone in.

FFS people. You will NOT play an EQ Classic game like it was when the game was first released. You will NOT run at 1.0 speed from Freeport to Qeynos and think it's awesome. You will NOT think CRs to South Karana are "the shit old sk00l roXxOrz" when you forget you are bound in GFay and no one is around to transport you there. I am truly aghast by the delusions here.

No offense to Angelox, because I do understand fully where his heart is for EQ. But these are the days of the Buried Sea, not Kunark. Get the emulator to Emulate something in the last 5 years of expansions, then worry about whether someone can #summon an item or not and ruin the mystique.

To each his own. If a classic server is not for you, don't play on one. By classic, I mean classic. The game as it was. The game at its beginning was about so much more including strategy. Not only strategy by yourself, but strategy with others. Hrm...my party got killed in the middle of an orc camp by orcs 10 levels higher than us. How will we pull this off? Why don't we have the naked halfling kite them around while we loot our corpses and then help kill them. THAT WAS FUN. In today's game, nevermind that. Simply go into the guild hall and pay money to have your body dragged back. Simply click on a book to be moved across the world. Sorry, but not even World of Warcraft players are that lazy. I respect your views but there are many people who want to want to play the game for what the game was, not for what it is today. And by the way, I NEVER forget where I am bound.

-Wizzel

[Jonathan5]

Originally Posted by Wizzel

To each his own. If a classic server is not for you, don't play on one. By classic, I mean classic. The game as it was. The game at its beginning was about so much more including strategy. Not only strategy by yourself, but strategy with others. Hrm...my party got killed in the middle of an orc camp by orcs 10 levels higher than us. How will we pull this off? Why don't we have the naked halfling kite them around while we loot our corpses and then help kill them. THAT WAS FUN. In today's game, nevermind that. Simply go into the guild hall and pay money to have your body dragged back. Simply click on a book to be moved across the world. Sorry, but not even World of Warcraft players are that lazy. I respect your views but there are many people who want to want to play the game for what the game was, not for what it is today. And by the way, I NEVER forget where I am bound.

-Wizzel

Amen. Not being a fanboy, nor a hater, but I agree.

[Windcatcher]

I haven't read everything on this thread but it's making me concerned about what will happen when people really start creating all new stuff for use with SimpleCilent. People should correct me if I'm mistaken, but IMHO the point there really will be mystique first and foremost. Is this something that needs to be thought through before we go diving into server creation?

[John Adams]

Originally Posted by Wizzel

Why don't we have the naked halfling kite them around while we loot our corpses and then help kill them.

/cheer! Naked halflings are always fun.

In today's game, nevermind that. Simply go into the guild hall and pay money to have your body dragged back. Simply click on a book to be moved across the world. Sorry, but not even World of Warcraft players are that lazy. I respect your views but there are many people who want to want to play the game for what the game was, not for what it is today. And by the way, I NEVER forget where I am bound.

I'd like to think you understand where I am really coming from, but I don't think you do. You are lumping me into a "it's not modern and easy so I hate it" category. While the newer games are pretty, they are not nearly as "fun" as original EQ. Why do you think you and I differ so much on this opinion? I am an old school stratigist, too. I am sad that the days of actually working for your glory are gone. All along, this is what I have been saying - including agreeing with your concepts and philosophies.

Where we differ in opinion (only) is that it requires some special server or client to do it. It is my opinion that the current emulator, with the appropriate amount of effort, can do exactly what everyone wants it to do. All it takes is database work, removing some of the clicky transport doors from the world and voila - Old EQ.

Yes, the Titanium client has new windows that do stuff, such as Maps. But you cannot tell me anyone who's played this game for 8 years needs a map to Antonica.

Anyway, you said you were done arguing with me. So, I am beating a dead horse trying to convince you I am not against you, Wizzel. Totally for your ideas, I just think the effort you are going to put into this will not change the status of the emulator - no matter how many fanbois /cheer that they want it. If they did, they'd play the existing servers from level 1 and enjoy themselves. Maybe it's all about the data, not the client.

[oldlurker]

Originally Posted by John Adams

Where we differ in opinion (only) is that it requires some special server or client to do it. It is my opinion that the current emulator, with the appropriate amount of effort, can do exactly what everyone wants it to do. All it takes is database work, removing some of the clicky transport doors from the world and voila - Old EQ.

I beg to differ. There where huge changes in gameplay over the years. The most prominent would be the melee revamp(imho a much needed upgrade for 2h weapons)around SoL launch. Most of this has to be changed/implemented in the server code.
So what is truly classic? If you "only" look at the changes(mostly nerfs) that went in from the day EQ launched to the day Kunark hit the shelves you will be quite overwhelmed.
But it is my option too that is a waste of time and effort to try to get an really old client to work with eqemulator. Not to mention the legal problems, not everyone still has his EQ, Kunark or Velious game CDs.