Stonewall and Shielding

[trevius]

Here are some testing results I got while experimenting so I could get an idea of what stats my end-game mobs needed to be able to hit players with high AC for large amounts of damage. These are directly from my notes, so please excuse the sloppiness:

NPC level 70 with 1 Str 0min/max hit:

War level 70 no AA, 800AC
Max hit around 2519 average hit 1500ish
War level 70 no AA, 1511AC
Max hit around 2217 min avg is 311
War level 70 no AA, 2121AC
Max hit around 2193
War level 70 no AA, 2893AC
Max hit around 2142 and average min is 311

Stonewall works perfectly cutting max hits in half to about 1k


NPC level 70 with 500 Str 0min/max hit:

War level 70 no AA, 1511AC
Max hit around 2217 min avg is 541/846. Higher Str increased average hit damage


NPC level 70 with 1 Str 0min 1000max hit:

War level 70 no AA, 1511AC
Max hit around 920 min avg is 115

NPC level 70 with 1 Str 0min 2000max hit:

War level 70 no AA, 1511AC
Max hit around 1840 min avg is 184


NPC level 70 with 500 Str 0min 1000max hit:

War level 70 no AA, 1511AC
Max hit around 920 min avg is 115


NPC level 70 with 10000 Str 0min 1000max hit:

War level 70 no AA, 1511AC
Max hit around 920 min avg is 874/897
War level 70 no AA, 2893AC
Max hit around 850 and average min is 808

NPC level 70 with 1000 Str 0min 1000max hit:

War level 70 no AA, 2893AC
Max hit around 850 and average min is around 500ish with lots of range

NPC level 70 with 2000 Str 0min 1000max hit:

War level 70 no AA, 2893AC
Max hit around 850 and average min is around 600ish with lots of range

NPC level 70 with 2000 Str 0min 1000max hit:

War level 70 no AA, 2097AC
Max hit around 850 and average min is around 700ish with lots of range

NPC level 70 with 2000 Str 0min 3000max hit:

War level 70 no AA, 2097AC
Max hit around 2487 and average min is around 2100ish with lots of range
War level 70 no AA, 2893AC
Max hit around 2487 and average min is around 1100ish with lots of range


NPC level 70 with 1000 Str 0min 3000max hit:

War level 70 no AA, 2893AC
Max hit around 2487 and average min is around 800ish with lots of range

500Str on the NPC seems about right for players with 2000-2200AC on mobs hitting for less than 1k

1000str is for mobs hitting around 1k to 1500

2000str for mobs hitting in the 2000+ range.

You will want to experiment, but I had no clue I needed to set STR so high in order to get the results I wanted. Once you have your STR set high enough, you can add in a min hit value, but it has to be very low or it will interfere with StoneWall and Shielding.

My testing seems to show that setting the min hit to slightly less than 1/5 of the max hit will be about where you want it as long as STR is set properly. So, if max hit is 2000, min hit might be 400 or even slightly less. Or if max hit is 500, min hit would be 100 or less. In most cases, you probably want to drop the min hit even lower than 1/5.

If you test the mobs yourself, you will see what I mean. The idea is that when you are using stonewall, the mob doesn't hit for the min damage EVERY time. They should be hitting around that range, and will hit min damage every now and then, but you want there to be variety.

Setting up your high level content in the new system means that you will need to use the information I provided here. This system now takes AC into account. It is a fair amount of work to re-tune all custom encounters, but it isn't as bad as creating them from scratch. A couple hours in each zone should pay off well.

[thepoetwarrior]

Good info Trevius!

My users are currently raiding a boss that has min/max at 2000/2500 but their tanks get hit for only 1000-1300. I haven't updated the binaries in a few weeks, so maybe the min dmg will be inforced when I update the server binary?

Do you know which binary version this min dmg took effect?

Thanks for sharing all the stats on your experimenting with ac/str min/max stuff. It'll definately be a resource when tweeking raids.

Also, your zone reset quest code worked awsome. My server can now be up for over 24 hours without lagging from ghost. Keep up the good work!

[trevius]

Hmm, I thought your server was already running the code that included the min enforced damage. If that was the case though, your players would NEVER be hit for less than 2k on a mob with 2k min.

It was finalized in the 1081 build.

==01/22/2008
KLS: Melee mitigation should now properly enforce minimum damage.

And thanks, I am glad you are benefiting from the quest. It seems to help my server considerably. I still do regular reboots to keep things running as smooth as possible, but it isn't nearly as bad as it was before. I could now leave the server running for a few days if I wanted and not have to worry about the players suffering too badly.

I am still looking into a few other things that might help clear up other connection issue like the well known "lag bug" and connections hanging and building up over time. I will certainly share anything I find here and on your forums as well.

[thepoetwarrior]

Yeah, same here. I try to do regular reboots, about once every 24 hours, but at least I know if life gets busy for 2-3 days, the users can still play.

I did some test of my own. By the way, running server build 1096, and tested on one boss that hits for minimin 2k dmg, and it works. What I didn't realize is that "Cripple" was being casted on the mob. So I did a #findspell and #cast cripple on the boss, and that dropped its dmg down to about 1400. (I made a 50k hp BP for testing this). I looked up the info on cripple, and its only suppose to lower the STR and a few other stats a little bit, so how does this affect min damage? Maybe nobody knows, but at least we know how users can lower the min dmg in a fight which can change the difficulty of a raid.

[KLS]

I am revisiting this just to say with my next patch shielding effects will affect damage below the damage bonus or minimum hit. It will still be enforced on AC though.

[ChaosSlayer]

very good =)

[trevius]

Originally Posted by KLS

I am revisiting this just to say with my next patch shielding effects will affect damage below the damage bonus or minimum hit. It will still be enforced on AC though.

That sounds ok as long as it doesn't mean the player will be getting hit for the exact same damage every time. I don't think it is right to see hits like 500 500 500 500 500 etc.

[KLS]

Nope, unless they're hitting minimum every time already shouldn't be an issue.

[ChaosSlayer]

Originally Posted by trevius

That sounds ok as long as it doesn't mean the player will be getting hit for the exact same damage every time. I don't think it is right to see hits like 500 500 500 500 500 etc.

well actualy if player AC insanly high, even with new shilding you stil ggoing to see hits like 233, 233, 233, 233 etc.
Cuase min dmg is enforced onto AC.
The diffirence that shielding will now reduce the final dmg, so it will actualy matter vs all types of dmg not just nax dmg.

in other words- the problem with identical hits is with players AC, not with the shielding =)