Population

[kokey98]

i knew one person who nearly lost his wife over eq within 2-3 years of launch.

he made the right choice and barely played after that. i knew a bunch of people that got burned out... same stuff happens with wow, too. they play less and less after each time they take a hiatus.

the game is a time sink, and the way it was made early on you had to play 12 hours a day to be as good as the 'best' players. an emu offers an ability to change that and many like that idea.

i think the perceptions in this forum are a result of group think at times in regard to how people play or what they want. realize a majority of people do not contribute on the forums... you have no idea what the masses think by reading forums that only 10% (more likely less) of people are a part of. forums require a particular personality to keep up on them... i've lurked around here for more than 10years and i've psoted more in the last couple months than the previous 9 years together.

you can see the servers (standard) that are successful are the ones operated with some consistency and can keep it online for years to come. certain server-owners pop up on occasion and consistently flake out -- more power to them, but i'm glad when someone points it out -- although they should learn to be less of an a@@ when doing it (i think a request from forum operators was in response to this - telling us to play nice(r) etc).

you'll also notice the only successful standard ones also do something to make the game a bit more solo-friendly (solo includes boxers, too).

once they start flip-flopping with rules, i typically leave.. it's a bad omen. likely a teen-ager who keeps seeing greener pastures instead of developing the one he's currently in (or she, i grew up when "he" is grammatically correct for both genders).. or worse they have conflicting goals and behaviours - i gues that could fall under flakiness.

standard servers:

-got plenty of boxer servers that are more of the same from preffered and legends

-got vog and nag lair that are more solo friendly... one has some custome progression, one is more 'legit' for a lack of a better word.

there's a bot server here and there, but they aren't as well put togoether as vog or nag lair... you either get high-end gear at level one or it's 1-swing and move to next npc etc... there's no middle ground with bot-servers, yet.

despite the commonn resonse you see in teh forums.. .there are not "many" bot servers... most are too easy or a complete mess or are simply inconsistent (you choose a way).

i'd like one closer to vog/nag lair type difficulty. i also don't want to take 3 months to get upto level - that's the easy part that has nothign to do with the actual game - pure time sink. i want to spend time gathering useful gear, and gradually working way up to more difficult end-game stuff. i've been dinking around with one on my pc, so maybe i'll jsut make it as i want, but that will take a very long time relative to what i can invest each day.

so, there really isn't a middle-road bot server... they are more like god-servers since you just mow stuff down. I'd probably liek imperium or raid addicts but i don't want a 1-85 or 1-100 server. so many levels is silly and plenty of other ways to accomplish whatever goal was the impetus such a large quantity. i want the end-game stuff to be slow and require better gear etc etc.. getting there isn't fun for me... i've deen it 1000 times between wow and eq... at this point it's the worst part of the game for me, lol.

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even the more solo-friendly ones commonly say - but you'll have to group up for bigger stuff... but if i only have a few opportunties to group with someone and it's required to do important things on that server, then i'm very likely to quit logging in since i can't do anythign on my schedule... i have to hope some others are available and more importantly interested in helping (and vice versa).

on the other side... if i have 1 hour to play, i don't want to go sit around killing 1 npc for someone i don't know.. and i understand it's the same from their perspective, too.

most mmo'ers do have some sort of anti-social problem - whether it's mild or severe, it is there. Just google Nick Burns SNL IT guy -- that's a typicall mmo-er (from 18 years of experience with them, lol). it's like a game show when you group up, lol. "please, no whammies, no whammies, stop!" whaaa-whaaa, you lose.

[ChaosSlayerZ]

Originally Posted by kokey98

even the more solo-friendly ones commonly say - but you'll have to group up for bigger stuff... but if i only have a few opportunties to group with someone and it's required to do important things on that server, then i'm very likely to quit logging in since i can't do anythign on my schedule... i have to hope some others are available and more importantly interested in helping (and vice versa).

on the other side... if i have 1 hour to play, i don't want to go sit around killing 1 npc for someone i don't know.. and i understand it's the same from their perspective, too.
.

Well the quest/raiding system doesn't need to be set up this way where it takes 40+ people 2-4 hours to kill a mob that drops nothing but just 1 epic quest part for 1 person. The fact that it was this way on LIFE doesn't mean it has to be.

So log in as a solo player for your 1 hour - and do your solo thing.
If you happen to stumble upon a pick group/raid - you do that, get something out of it and log off.

[kokey98]

Originally Posted by ChaosSlayerZ

Well the quest/raiding system doesn't need to be set up this way where it takes 40+ people 2-4 hours to kill a mob that drops nothing but just 1 epic quest part for 1 person. The fact that it was this way on LIFE doesn't mean it has to be.

So log in as a solo player for your 1 hour - and do your solo thing.
If you happen to stumble upon a pick group/raid - you do that, get something out of it and log off.

but, that's kind of the point i was making. you can only do your solo thing for so long before you cannot improve your character on your own. at that point if the server has no population... it's more like log in, can't accomplish what needs to be done, and then log out and do other things.

the only thing i meant to convey in that paragraph is it is a logical contradiction to make a solo server that requires groups for the important stuff. finding couple people is no different than finding 40 if they do not exist or are not common enough to rely on being there. some servers do the 2-3 people needed and if they average ~15-20 players i bet they can get away with it. let the course of the server dictate, not try to forcfe somethign that's not possible except in a dream.

(again we each have our own lives... it's not obligatory that the one other person who logs in helps me or i him. the comment about hte hour, or limited time available, was because i like to play a video game for that hour, not don't play a video game for an hour.)

[Mistmaker]

I think 15-20 is extreme. We average maybe 3 level 70s on during peak hours and those players have no problem doing the 2-3 player raid content on our server that averages 5 players online.

I think a lot of people have difficulty coming out of their comfort zone and reaching out to others to either help them advance or group with them to do the content available. They come online with a goal that they are going to do A, B, C then logoff or they have been on a bunch of other servers with a "partner" and choose not to contact anyone else to include them in their comfortable group. So if your not able to make that 70 group why not help that level 68?

I think many players think they have no time so they can only do certain things while online. I think this is an excuse to not reach out to others. If you look at how much time those people that say they don't have time are really online doing A, B, C, ...SOLO... they could have spent 2 minutes reaching out to others and doing content together with someone else.

Originally Posted by kokey98

but, that's kind of the point i was making. you can only do your solo thing for so long before you cannot improve your character on your own. at that point if the server has no population... it's more like log in, can't accomplish what needs to be done, and then log out and do other things.

the only thing i meant to convey in that paragraph is it is a logical contradiction to make a solo server that requires groups for the important stuff. finding couple people is no different than finding 40 if they do not exist or are not common enough to rely on being there. some servers do the 2-3 people needed and if they average ~15-20 players i bet they can get away with it. let the course of the server dictate, not try to forcfe somethign that's not possible except in a dream.

(again we each have our own lives... it's not obligatory that the one other person who logs in helps me or i him. the comment about hte hour, or limited time available, was because i like to play a video game for that hour, not don't play a video game for an hour.)

[The_Beast]

Originally Posted by Mistmaker

I think a lot of people have difficulty coming out of their comfort zone and reaching out to others

I have played on a server in the past that, at that time, had 23 players on, but none of them had any interest in grouping together. It almost seems, more and
more these days, it's not really about "time to play", it's more about people just wanting to do their own thing. I am even convinced that population no longer
plays a factor, or creates a hurdle in someone wanting to actually group. The desire for it has begun to dissolve and that /LFG tag will eventually become obsolete.

[ChaosSlayerZ]

Originally Posted by kokey98

but, that's kind of the point i was making. you can only do your solo thing for so long before you cannot improve your character on your own. at that point if the server has no population... it's more like log in, can't accomplish what needs to be done, and then log out and do other things.

the only thing i meant to convey in that paragraph is it is a logical contradiction to make a solo server that requires groups for the important stuff. finding couple people is no different than finding 40 if they do not exist or are not common enough to rely on being there. some servers do the 2-3 people needed and if they average ~15-20 players i bet they can get away with it. let the course of the server dictate, not try to forcfe somethign that's not possible except in a dream.

Well then how about look at it this way - server has 3 different progression lines: for soloers, for groupers and for raiders - and each type of players follows his own goals. So all your important staff as soloer - is solo
If you want move on to group thing - then you no longer on a solo path and requirements are different.

[kokey98]

Originally Posted by Mistmaker

I think 15-20 is extreme. We average maybe 3 level 70s on during peak hours and those players have no problem doing the 2-3 player raid content on our server that averages 5 players online.

I think a lot of people have difficulty coming out of their comfort zone and reaching out to others to either help them advance or group with them to do the content available. They come online with a goal that they are going to do A, B, C then logoff or they have been on a bunch of other servers with a "partner" and choose not to contact anyone else to include them in their comfortable group. So if your not able to make that 70 group why not help that level 68?

I think many players think they have no time so they can only do certain things while online. I think this is an excuse to not reach out to others. If you look at how much time those people that say they don't have time are really online doing A, B, C, ...SOLO... they could have spent 2 minutes reaching out to others and doing content together with someone else.

to the previous couple posts:

i'm open to trying anything that is inclusive - and speaking more in a generalized tone than a request for a new server.

I don't think there's 1 right way... and i am not criticizing different opinions of how to play the game either.

i'm actually enjoying one of the bot enabled servers right now. i ahve to kill to get gear, i don't level too fast but i'm not wallowing in the low levels for weeks or months etc... my only concern now is whether the perosn will keep it up for a long period of time :p

i know i can't get all of what i want when looking through the server list, but this one hits alot of the marks, so far. anytime i speak of an "ideal" it's not expected to be reached.

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i wrote this before the 2 previous posts or so... fyi.

i have no idea what the best "way" is. and that's relative to each individual owner's goal, too. regardless of that, some ways will be more likely to succed than others no matter what their goal is nor how much time they sink into it... a realistic perspective of all important factors is key.

who is playing? how often? how do they play? etc etc.. what proportions blah blah blah. most server configs simply aren't viable to play as they are set up ignoring the realities and repercussions of the answers to these questions, and those are the ones that cannot and will not last. (in addition to the more mundane sutff that's required to keep it running.. $$$/time etc..)

too often the theories discussed in this type of thread don't match reality :p you can want a certain type of server, but if the players aren't there it's a pipe dream. is 15-20 enough or too high for a threshold? i won't argue for or against that logic.. it's a # pulled out of the ether. although, i'm 99.9% certain a handful of random players cannot make anything but a solo server viable.

there's no one type of player. the players that play tons of hours will always be a different beast than those that play fewer. some group, some don't.. how it's setup won't change their preference. they can either co-exist with the others that play on that particular server or they cannot (ie likely won't play there anymore).

so, there's no right answer, therefore the most open and inclusive option is probably the best answer for long-term success. having more players around is better, even if some don't group much. despite how some feel about it... not wanting to group is not a contagious disease... it's not communicable. there are numerous other ways those types of player can contribute to the server. the more people involved, the more options available, the more likley people enjoy it.

I think incredibly silly stuff gets in the way of rational thought on this subject. this mostly applies to the players, but you see some militant stances from random server owner too.

e.g i don't get why if some don't like <insert whatever>, then they don't want others using it?

that's petty any way you slice it. only on a populated server would people step on other's toes, so it's mostly inconsequential how the next person plays the game. therefore, it's purely an emotional response, if there is no other rational cause for it. if there is a cause, then it doesn't fit this example.

e.g. i don't like boxing more than a few, but i don't get jealous about a guy boxing 50 toons. i'm a little jealous of what's required to run 50 toons, i mustl admit! but, that has nothign to do with "me/you" playing the game of EQ.

you could argue, well he just runs things over then i can't hunt there... well, with only a handful of people playing, you have many other options to choose from. if it's "The" npc of the last expansion available (or similar situation to context), that's always a bottle-neck without instancing. so no different, regardless. instad of thinking it through, people stop at ... "i wanted that ice cream! <cries>" ... "and my favorite cookie, which is just laying freely over there within reach isn't good enough!"

[The_Beast]

Originally Posted by kokey98

you'll also notice the only successful standard ones also do something to make the game a bit more solo-friendly (solo includes boxers, too).

I guess that would depend on the individual opinion of just exactly what defines a successful server on the standard list. EQTitan has been around several years,
and maintained the highest population on average. Anything else I see on that white list (today) with a population over 10, is not that old of a server. At least
not what I call older than recent. But it's a matter of whether you interpret successful as uptime, xx population or both.
In my opinion, if a player has a big desire to solo all content, they probably have no need to worry if a server has a population of any kind. You could be the only
one on a server and enjoy the game, unless you're OCD on the chat preference. I've literally seen "solo" players preach about MMO's being a social game, but no,
some might agree that "solo" and "mmo" do not go in the same sentence. If one is going to take the EQ out of Everquest, might as well leave the mmo behind and
concentrate on solo content.
When I read many of the comments of preferences for a solo friendly server, it seems to focus more on the high end of the game, doing raid bosses, etc., so I am
almost inclined to believe that if one created a solo server with instant access to the high end, you might see many of those soloers jump on for a day and get
their "fix". When you glance of some of those new server stats, you might notice the surge of players shortly after launch (aka. max players), while they bulldoze
the content before the population melts down to an average when the food is gobbled up faster than the kitchen can put out more.
For any dev to make a choice between solo and non-solo server, it's a "damned if you do and damned if you don't" scenario. There is hoards of players out there
that like that classic non-solo grind, you can see that in plain sight on the list, but they already have a place to eat, so any new servers now have to settle with
the leftovers if they are hungry. Hence, the small army of casual solo players. I noticed about 240 of them inhabiting the solo friendly servers earlier today.