Custom Zones...?

morganpartee · #1 02-18-2007, 03:59 PM

Ok, well i may get kicked in the face for this, but;

has any headway been made torwards being able to add zones WITHOUT having to run zoneproxy or replace existing zones?

i reaaally wanna make my own. lol

#2 02-18-2007, 04:10 PM

there the only ways to do it because zone names are hard coded into the client.

Windcatcher · #3 02-18-2007, 05:07 PM

Don't let that deter you. Our own client is coming. Here's a little tease:

The Namtarn before dawn. Still a gazillion things to do before I can release it, but my collision avoidance is finally rock-solid. In fact, making our own zones will be critical as it doesn't load SOE ones (this is on purpose -- I don't plan to give them any reason to howl).

morganpartee · #4 02-19-2007, 04:22 AM

noice wind...though wouldnt that essentially make it a new game?

and also... how do public servers do it? lol
do they also use zoneproxy?

it seems like all real work on ZP has stopped...

**cavedude** · #5 02-19-2007, 07:19 AM

Wow, excellent work Wind! Is it possible (legally and technically) to convert Sony's zone files into format of our own for use with your client?

Sensu-Bean · #6 02-19-2007, 08:56 AM

simpleclient gives me a woody!

Windcatcher I wanna have yo baby... if only I were female.

Looks Hella cool! Good Job!

morganpartee · #7 02-19-2007, 09:08 AM

wow sensu bean...thats a bit creepy. lol

but yea, custom client is good. then there is no end to the editing doable.

i wish we had the source to live eq tho lol

Windcatcher · #8 02-19-2007, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavedude

Wow, excellent work Wind! Is it possible (legally and technically) to convert Sony's zone files into format of our own for use with your client?

Technically, yes. Legally, hell no

I don't remember what the current released version of ZoneProxy is but mine is version 1.5 (bugfixes, I think). One reason I haven't done anything on it since is because I decided that it was ultimately a dead end as SoE can still shut down servers at will (case in point: the various S2k servers). SimpleClient is aimed at preventing that once and for all. Is it a new game? Technically, yes. Is it a really huge leap, though? Not really, in my opinion, since it still talks to EQEmu.

Sensu-Bean · #9 02-19-2007, 11:31 AM

Windcatcher,

I will try to put this as simple as I can because I usually dont make alot of sense to people, even though I understand what Im trying to say.

When your SimpleClient is released, will it be coded to check a list of zones that are going to be loaded and have a filter that deny any everquest registered named zones. Not talking about loading nexus.s3d as it is from sony, but I mean after a person created a custom zone in OpenZone and names it. I think there should be, unless there already is, a filter coded into OpenZone and SimpleClient to deny saving and loading of any zone names registered to Sony.

Only question is, would you be breaking laws not by coding a filter to deny in both programs, but when you list the names of zones owned by sony for the filter to deny in the code?

I guess Im trying to ask about such features:

-OpenZone cant save custom zones with registered sony zone names.
-SimpleClient cant load custom zones with registered sony zone names.

morganpartee · #10 02-19-2007, 11:46 AM

see wind...only problem i see is that you cant play real eq zones. people only (Largely) play eqemu to play eq, without cost.

taking away eq is just...scary. lol

link2009 · #11 02-19-2007, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windcatcher

Don't let that deter you. Our own client is coming. Here's a little tease:

The Namtarn before dawn. Still a gazillion things to do before I can release it, but my collision avoidance is finally rock-solid. In fact, making our own zones will be critical as it doesn't load SOE ones (this is on purpose -- I don't plan to give them any reason to howl).

Very interesting, what did you code the client in? (C++) ?

JrFaust · #12 02-19-2007, 02:51 PM

Wow Windcatcher great job!
I can

link2009 · #13 02-19-2007, 02:58 PM

[QUOTE=JrFaust]Wow Windcatcher great job!
I can

Windcatcher · #14 02-19-2007, 03:35 PM

The reason I don't allow the client to load Sony's files is because of what would happen -- 99% of servers would be exclusively using their files. Though I would technically be blameless, it still wouldn't stop Sony from shutting not just those servers down but possibly all of EQEmu. I'm not prepared to take the risk that either a well-groomed lawyer could convince a judge to shut this entire project down nor am I prepared to tempt a lawsuit. They would have every right to shut the servers down, but I'm pretty convinced that they could also take a page from Blizzard if they wanted to and decide to be a little more predatory. If the client can't touch their files then they really can't go after it or EQEmu in general. I've built SimpleClient to what I consider the "Blizzard standard", meaning it has to survive even the most baseless and unscrupulous attack. Perhaps this is a bit unfair since Sony hasn't acted nearly that badly but I prefer to be careful.

I think SimpleClient would be at greater risk if it tried to filter out use of Sony's zone names rather than less. As long as it can't read their file format, I'm no more obligated to preclude use of names like "Qeynos" than Id Software is obligated to prevent someone making a DOOM .WAD with the same name. Just because I'm not a corporation and don't have legions of lawyers in my employ doesn't mean I have less rights than one. SimpleClient can't read their zone files, and as far as I'm concerned, since OpenZone can make files that it *can* read, I've done my bit legally speaking. I've been tempted to prevent it from reading their spell files as well, but since their file is nothing more than a ^-delimited text file there's pretty much nothing I could do to prevent someone from using their spell files if they really wanted to (and the server requires that format anyway). When the client is released, it will come with at least a simple slate of spells, and people can make more with OpenSpell. Game text files are even worse (just a number and some text). I'll have to come up with a reasonable substitute. I might add an alternate export mechanism to OpenSpell to save spells in another format, like XML, for instance, but as a legal protection measure it would be a farce since converting Sony's spell format to anything I might invent would be a trivial endeavor no matter what I did.

I'm aware that if people *really* wanted to, they could convert all of Sony's zones to .XWF and use them with the client. Both file formats are open at this point, or at least open enough that it's possible. Of course, people could convert EQ zones to Quake 3, Half-life, or lots of other formats, too. Id Software is in no danger from Sony because of this. Their software isn't built specifically to use Sony's zones, and that gives them plenty of legal cover. I have the same rights as Id in this regard. I just have to make sure that using their files isn't the only way to play -- I've released five zones and eight creature models so far, and I'm told that the community could field 20 zones later this year if we had to).

Basically I coded SimpleClient so that servers would be safe from being shut down, but that means that those servers have to completely stay away from anything belonging to Sony (including names, if their action against S2k is any indication), and it means that such servers have to exist in the first place. I don't think that would ever happen unless the bar to use Sony's stuff is pretty high.

SC is coded in Delphi, of course! I could have never done it so quickly without plagiarizing the heck out of everything I've written so far (it's also part of my diabolically evil plan to convert the world to Delphi....mwahahahaha).

Windcatcher · #15 02-19-2007, 04:33 PM

Actually, one final note on file formats -- SC is file format agnostic. The zone-loading code is in a DLL. Want to load another format? Write a DLL for it. There is no reason for me to keep the DLL interface closed; there are probably much better formats out there than .XWF and no reason why SC shouldn't be able to use them. Eventually I want to add hardware shader support, for instance, and XWF might not be the best vehicle for it -- Quake 3 format might be better, for instance. If you decide to load Sony's files, IT'S ON YOU. I'm not going to provide the means, but I don't have to go out of my way to make it absolutely impossible, either.